Another day, another beginner seeking advice thread!

Pelvis

zubair wrote: »

In looking at the other HJCs that have been tested of 25 just 7 scored 4 or above. Personally I wouldn't consider it based on this. I would recommend the Box BX1, can be got for around €60, goes up to 2XL and has a 4 star rating, also, it's a round shape so should fit your ginormous noggin! It's basic but you're only starting so just need protection, you can get a better lid later. Try it on in for size in bikeworld and get it for half the price online.

I will check that out thanks. I'm happy with cheap so long as it does the job!

zubair wrote: »

Any progress with the permit?

Permit is all sorted. Have the IBT booked for a couple of weeks time, have pesky college exams to get done first.

Pelvis

I suppose my only other concern is parking. There's a lot of driveway space in front of my flat (prob enough for 3 cars), though the landlord said when I moved in that parking is not available. There's just a single van parked there, and then a half dozen of so bicycles locked up belonging to the occupants.

I see no reason why I can't lock up the bike next to all the other bicycles, without taking up any actual driveway space, but the landlord could have an issue with that. In that case, is there much of a concern parking the bike out on the footpath chained to a lamppost? The path is wide enough so as not to cause an obstruction, and it's a main road around the Rathgar area, so decent enough. Any issues?

Wonda-Boy

zubair wrote: »

Someone own a low scoring lid?!

Nope, but its all bollocks....but thats another beer garden debate.

zubair

Not sure what you're basing that on but ok, I'm convinced. :P

Wonda-Boy

There has been rakes of debates on here about it, go to the search function and you find them......

http://www.visordown.com/news/general/scrap-sharp-helmet-ratings-says-leading-
scientist

Anyway, your to tight to spend on a decent lid ffs!

Wonda-Boy

This post actually says it all TBH Jamie......from Jayzeus a few weeks back.


If you want something 'better' than ECE 22.05 certified then look for a Snell certified lid from the big manufacturers or if it's from a UK supplier an ACU gold rating. Those are effectively the motorsports approvals standards for the USA and UK respectively.

SHARP is nothing but a quango in the UK. They don't have to look for profit because they're funded by the UK exchequer. They pick and choose different parts from different international tests to make up their own test and rating system which has ZERO recognition internationally. Compare that to the ECE 22.05 or SNELL certification list and look at what's involved in the testing. SHARP doesn't come close.

http://www.smf.org/testing

https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/content/animation

Random helmets are tested alright. They've tested only around 400 helmets in the last 10 years. That's pathetic. Look through their list and you'll see some of the most popular helmets in certain categories have NEVER been tested in their 10 years of existence as an organisation. Look for ANY Arai TX series lid. You won't find a single one. They're on the market and very popular for more than 10 years now. Miserable waste of space organisation. Misleading people who don't know any better. They'd put a rating on a pudding bowl if it kept them in their jobs. Waste of effort looking to them for guidance.

Look at ECE 22.05, SNELL M2010/M2015 and ACU Gold ratings once you've short-listed a few lids that fit you properly if you really want a good steer on what to choose.

None of that matters anyway if your helmet doesn't fit you right. Get advice in a decent bike shop from someone who knows what they're talking about.

zubair

But you just posted another persons opinion, there's no evidence here that would imply it's a failed or unrealistic test. Sure I can find the same opinions on the other 3 safety standards just as easily.

The most valuable piece here is the fit, make sure the lid fits, first and foremost.

Wonda-Boy

:rolleyes:

I take it you did not look at the links.....the evidence was in the links.

I posted his quote for the links along with my own link from the independent test and investigations which is a shocking indictment into how flawed the Sharp test system is.

His opinions just mirror my own.

It was proved by leading specialist with over 30 yrs experience "Independantly Testing Helmets" Dr Mills that the system used is not accurate at all.

The most telling aspect of the shoddy Sharp test is that helmets that failed with 2-3 stars in the Sharp tests got excellent scores in the much tougher and internationally recognised SNELL tests!!!

Anywho, I aint getting into this again.....just make sure as you said the helmet fits your head properly what ever one you buy.

Wonda-Boy

Taken from the Snell website....with stands true.

Finding a good helmet is as easy as remembering the 4 S's: Size, Strap, Straight and Snell.

Size: Try on several different helmets before you purchase one. The best way to gauge comfort level and fit is through comparison. The helmet should fit comfortably all the way around your head. Additional pads can be used to make it snug.
Strap: Pay attention to the chin strap. Make sure that the chin strap fits around your ear and under your chin snugly and comfortably. The helmet should not shift on your head.
Straight: Know how a helmet should fit. A helmet is meant to be worn low on the forehead, just above your eyebrows. Look into a mirror or have a friend/parent help you determine the proper fit.
Sticker: Look for Snell certification. Snell Standards are the most stringent in the world, exceeding those set by the Consumer Products Safety Commission (CPSC), American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) and the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). Need to know which helmet is Snell certified? Browse through Snell helmet certification lists.

CaptainR

I'd generally believe that if a helmet is being worn by pro racers that crash every weekend then its safe enough for me regardless of SHARP tests. If you hit a car at 30 mph head on then it doesn't really matter what you're wearing anyway as the force will be transferred into your neck.

One thing I find really interesting about watching race crashes are how well the visor holds up. Shoei seem to pop off more so then others from my completely anecdotal, flawed research :pac:

I've a HJC RPHA 11 and its worn by a lot of racers and road racers because its one of the cheapest race lids, that's a better test to me in my opinion.

Any helmet for sale in Europe has to pass the tests. I wouldnt buy the cheapest but 120 quid will get you a decent helmet.

Wonda-Boy

Have to say I prefer the DD ring on the strap also over the click and lock.....just doesnt feel the same safety wise. 2 of my helmets have DD rings and the other 2 have click and lock, deffo prefer the DD rings.

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Have to say I prefer the DD ring on the strap also over the click and lock.....just doesnt feel the same safety wise. 2 of my helmets have DD rings and the other 2 have click and lock, deffo prefer the DD rings.

Agreed, mine has click lock and i would prefer DD

zubair

I'll take a stab and guess that the racer doesn't have much say in what he puts on his head, the sponsors do.

Wonda-Boy

zubair wrote: »

I'll take a stab and guess that the racer doesn't have much say in what he puts on his head, the sponsors do.

You could not be more wrong J, last word with rider safety is with the rider. A rider would never compromise his own safety with an inferior product just for revenue for the team.

TBH, the team wants a happy rider. A happy rider is a good rider, but when you get to the top of racing like the Dunlops and Guy Martin then money is no object.

Sure the boots that Micky D wears (Daytona Boots) the inner boot only costs £800 pounds sterling, thats the inner boot not the actual boot itself.

The boots alone are £1300 for us mere mortals and his are more then likely custom made for his feet. But if not then his boots are worth £2900 just for boots ffs!

http://www.thevisorshop.com/en/Daytona-Security-Evo-3-GP-Boots-BlackGunYellow/m-16882.aspx


http://www.thevisorshop.com/en/Daytona-Security-Evo-3-GP-Boots---INNER-ONLY/m-19728.aspx

Not that he is paying for them mind, its the guys starting out or really good riders that have full time jobs to keep the racing going are the ones you would feel for and might have no choice but to cut corners to make an event!

zubair

zubair wrote: »

I'll take a stab and guess that the racer doesn't have much say in what he puts on his head, the sponsors do.

I think you'll find that's not really the case, certainly not at the top level of motorsports where drivers often choose their own helmet suppliers, their right to do so being stipulated in their contractual terms.

In many cases they are heavily influenced by licensing/sponsorship fees paid to them or to the team by the suppliers in addition to being supplied with free helmets and support for race meetings. Red Bull F1 allow their drivers choose their own suppliers, although their preference would be that they use an Arai due to their having the best match with their cars in terms of aerodynamics, as an example.

But their hands aren't tied, no matter the team, Hamilton moved over to Bell from Arai after 20 years with no restrictions from his team, while Vettel has stayed with Arai who famously refuse to pay any fees to teams or their drivers for using their lids. He could earn big money taking a deal from Schuberth, Stilo or Bell, who pay drivers directly for sponsorship and licensing deals.

At the entry/mid-level of motorsports then it's quite likely that drivers will take whatever is on offer from a sponsor, if their riders/drivers are okay with what they're given to wear. Their ability to fund their drive or teams may depend on it but that's all for another discussion really.

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

You could not be more wrong J, last word with rider safety is with the rider.

Absolute rubbish man, those road racers earn **** all, get absolutely nothing and barely scrape by, top riders they might be on the road but sponsors dont give a toss about them, they get the bare minimum if even and earn the sponsors nothing and thus get paid nothing. Sure I think one of the Dunlops is a plumber.

Michael Dunlop would get one pair of boots if he is lucky and a helmet and leathers with it. Where the money is made Moto gp and world superbikes they wear whatever will earn them the most money and thats it, guarantee they dont give a **** what helmet or gear they wear once they are paid once it complies.

Road racers earn sponsors nothing, regardless if they are Hutchy or Mcguiness and are paid and looked after accordingly i.e get nothing.

Sure look at Hutchy wearing RST gear and its ****e quality, and then Dunlop is wearing 1300 gbp boots? Which would buy Hutchy's whole suit, boots and gloves.
Why wouldnt Hutchy want 1300 quid boots aswell, hes stuck wearing 200 pound RST boots.

He aint doing that through safety, I know which pair I would pick.

CaptainR

zubair wrote: »

I'll take a stab and guess that the racer doesn't have much say in what he puts on his head, the sponsors do.

Even at the highest levels of the sport the choice of brand a rider wears is up to them. Their team doesn't say "We have a sponsorship deal with Shoei, you're wearing one" its a personal sponsor. Same with leathers and boots.

A lot of road racers at a lower level would buy their lids off the shelf themselves. Any time you see a racer wearing a white or black lid with no custom graphics, then its a personal purchase. You'll see solid colours at a lot of BSB support races.

So the racer has all the say in what they wear, if they trust a certain brand then they won't wear it, no matter how much they're paid.

Wonda-Boy

Melody Square Goose-step wrote: »

Absolute rubbish man, those road racers earn **** all, get absolutely nothing and barely scrape by, top riders they might be on the road but sponsors dont give a toss about them, they get the bare minimum if even and earn the sponsors nothing and thus get paid nothing. Sure I think one of the Dunlops is a plumber.

Michael Dunlop would get one pair of boots if he is lucky and a helmet and leathers with it. Where the money is made Moto gp and world superbikes they wear whatever will earn them the most money and thats it, guarantee they dont give a **** what helmet or gear they wear once they are paid once it complies.

Road racers earn sponsors nothing, regardless if they are Hutchy or Mcguiness and are paid and looked after accordingly i.e get nothing.

Sure look at Hutchy wearing RST gear and its ****e quality, and then Dunlop is wearing 1300 gbp boots? Which would buy Hutchy's whole suit, boots and gloves.
Why wouldnt Hutchy want 1300 quid boots aswell, hes stuck wearing 200 pound RST boots.

He aint doing that through safety, I know which pair I would pick.

:rolleyes:

Did you even read my post,

Of course entry level and alot of senior riders scrimp and save to go racing and something has to give even safety I said that in my original post. Road racing is a very expensive hobby, Even some top riders still run fundraising events like Derek Sheils (who is a fantastic talent) to go racing.

But if you think the top top riders scrimp on safety you are delusional. You honestly think McGuinness, Martin or Dunlop sit there and take what ever the sponsers hand them to wear leathers and helmet wise.....would you stop.

Hutchy wears RST leathers but they are the high end race suits not of the rack stuff you and I buy, after his TT crash you honestly think he would compromise his safety he was lucky to survive that. He wears Dainese boots not RST ****e as you put it and an ARAI RX7 series lid ffs.

Top road racers earn the team a hell of alot, it was an act of goodwill to team up Martin and McGuinness for Honda was it??? They will earn a fortune from the McGuinness brand alone never mind the Martin brand.

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Did you even read my post,

Of course entry level and alot of senior riders scrimp and save to go racing and something has to give even safety I said that in my original post. Road racing is a very expensive hobby, Even some top riders still run fundraising events like Derek Sheils (who is a fantastic talent) to go racing.

But if you think the top top riders scrimp on safety you are delusional. You honestly think McGuinness, Martin or Dunlop sit there and take what ever the sponsers hand them to wear leathers and helmet wise.....would you stop.

Hutchy wears RST leathers but they are the high end race suits not of the rack stuff you and I buy, after his TT crash you honestly think he would compromise his safety he was lucky to survive that. He wears Dainese boots not RST ****e as you put it and an ARAI RX7 series lid ffs.

Top road racers earn the team a hell of alot, it was an act of goodwill to team up Martin and McGuinness for Honda was it??? They will earn a fortune from the McGuinness brand alone never mind the Martin brand.

Wonda they defo dont earn much at all. Sure where would the money be coming from?

There is no TV money , the rights would cost nothing for BBC if they are even shown at all on tv . The crowds pay for the insurance, factory teams don't exist. Unless your saying that people like Wilson Craig pay these lads out of their own pockets like sugar daddies, doesn't happen. As I said , William Dunlop is a plumber afaik and Cameron Donald a carpenter.

Mick Dunlop, hutchy and McGuiness are probably full time but no way would they be pulling in more than 80k from racing I would think, mostly from sponsors

Wonda-Boy

Ahh I get you, yeah I know full well you get very little "PRIZE" money for winning road races (even less up north) but when you are winning or even placing in the likes of the NW200, Ulster RR and TT (Especially the TT) consistently the revenue is huge from sponsorship and endorsements.

McGuinness is easily a multi millionaire from racing and the follow on from it.

This year alone McGuinness is sponsored by

Shoei Helmets
Monster Energy Drinks
Red Torpedo
Bet Victor (Poker)
GBM UK (Biggest Construction Company in UK)
Bennets Insurance UK

And they are only some of them....

Pelvis

Day 1 of IBT today. It's hard going mentally!! Fatigue kicked in late in the day and my control was getting a bit sloppy. So gonna have a mini session with the instructor some evening to get myself ready to go out on the road for day 2.

Didn't drop it though! Yet.

Parchment

Pelvis wrote: »

Day 1 of IBT today. It's hard going mentally!! Fatigue kicked in late in the day and my control was getting a bit sloppy. So gonna have a mini session with the instructor some evening to get myself ready to go out on the road for day 2.

Didn't drop it though! Yet.

it gets easier when you get used to the "movements" and sequencing. Muscle memory will kick in and gear changes etc become second nature and you will be able to enjoy it more.

Dropping it is a rite of passage i think!

Pelvis

I jinxed myself. Dropped the bike, managed to get out of the way of it but fell hard on my arm and broke my elbow. Lovely!!

frozenfrozen

on your ibt? shi/t one

Pelvis

Yep, on my ibt. **** one is right.

Still, got signed off work.

COH

Ouch! Recover well man

zubair

Ah man! Glad you're ok otherwise though.

Don't let it set you back. Once you're back in action give it another go.