Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

JaMarcusHustle

Isco won't be sold. The Madrid fans absolutely love him. Zidane has also been very vocal on his praise for him the past few months. He's being groomed to be a central figure in that team's future.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Europa Lego League Final highlights

https://youtu.be/QK1jBdPC-TA

StringerBell

astradave wrote: »

Carvalho to City, Fabinho to United anyone?

https://twitter.com/_goncalolopes/status/868941844440330240

Never knew his agent was Peps brother, kinda explains why the rumours/links between United and himself disappeared the last 12 months!

Trigger

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Europa Lego League Final highlights

https://youtu.be/QK1jBdPC-TA

Fellaini's fro and Pogbas blond hair are the Highlight of that

jayo26

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUqm5_pB7-5/

Happy Monday guys hahaha.

bangkok

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-you-can-t-run-a-game-without-a-well-run-team-1.3099596?mode=amp

Good article about pogba

yabadabado

bangkok wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-you-can-t-run-a-game-without-a-well-run-team-1.3099596?mode=amp

Good article about pogba

Decent article but I don't think Pogba was bought to be a Scholes/Pirlo type player.Even if United lined up with all key elements in place like Early has mentioned ,attacking FB etc Pogba won't be the man to dictate the game.

jayo26

yabadabado wrote: »

Decent article but I don't think Pogba was bought to be a Scholes/Pirlo type player.Even if United lined up with all key elements in place like Early has mentioned ,attacking FB etc Pogba won't be the man to dictate the game.

And that's exactly why people are saying he failed this season. He has had a pretty good season by his usual standards im happy out with him.

Drumpot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Real never need to balance books im afraid

No, the Spanish taxpayers "gift" them land and then just buy it back at a ridiculous price ...

https://soccer.clickon.co/2016/04/02/real-madrids-success-was-expensed-by-the-spanish-government/

I believe the land sold was actually gifted to Real by the council originally!!!

Mitch Connor

jayo26 wrote: »

And that's exactly why people are saying he failed this season. He has had a pretty good season by his usual standards im happy out with him.

I think it should be also acknowledged, however, there were a number of games that Pogba simply did not play well in.

He had a good run up to the liverpool game but in that liverpool game and a number after it he could have been as much of an influence if he had been sitting in the stands. There are mitigating issues, like those outlined in the article, his own poor contributions should be acknowledged.

DM_7

Pogba and his skills make United better. He is missed when he does not play (then again so are many players).

Its reasonable to expect more influence from a player that the club invested so much in.

TheDoc

Ivan Perisic? Where did that come from?

Actually used to really like him, but didn't think he kicked onto the heights I thought he would.

TheDoc

J. Marston wrote: »

There's something special about Rashford. Martial? I'm less and less convinced.

Martial is at present a superior player in most departments to Rashford. It's only whatever issue Jose has with him, that has Rashford in the team ahead of him.

I won't even entertain the notion Martial could leave as it would be pure negligent, losing a talent that for whatever reason the manager cannot coax form out of or handle. That's what he has assistants for. I'd hope Woodward would be strong in putting down some questions if it came to a conversation of letting Martial go.

Keep being surprised at how easily and happy people are talking down Martial and taking what I assume is just the managers lead. He is so abundantly good enough and hopefully it was just second season syndrome and he comes on strong next season.

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think it should be also acknowledged, however, there were a number of games that Pogba simply did not play well in.

He had a good run up to the liverpool game but in that liverpool game and a number after it he could have been as much of an influence if he had been sitting in the stands. There are mitigating issues, like those outlined in the article, his own poor contributions should be acknowledged.

I agree he has had some poor games too but anyone that knew him at juventus would say he is always been inconsistent I think he has been less so this year.

He has had a handful of bad games but every player does but in the last few weeks of the season he has been in very good form and he has consistently made killer passes that either setup a goal or released someone else to make a cross for an assist.

With a bit of better luck in front of goal his poor performances wouldn't be spoken of as much.

TheDoc

Discodog wrote: »

So I am doing some work in the garden.

First neighbour - that was some ****e ye played on Wednesday. Jose will ruin ye.

Second neighbour - can't stand that moaning f Mourinho

Third neighbour - Souness would be a good manager for ya. He knows where Jose is going wrong.

I am so happy. Jose has bought the salt back

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Martial is at present a superior player in most departments to Rashford. It's only whatever issue Jose has with him, that has Rashford in the team ahead of him.

In terms of technical/physical attributes maybe - but I would say it is rashford's application and attitude that have him in the team ahead of martial rather than some vendetta against Martial.

Both can be shut out of games, but it is far more likely that you will see a sulky disinterested Martial after 70minutes of a frustrating game than you will Rashford, and that is the key difference imo. Martial has rarely looked like taking a chance in the team when given it this season.

I would blame Mourinho for this in some respects, but Martial has to take personal responsibility too.

Martial's problem is his attitude imo, not something I would say about Rashford.

You may say i am just being lead by Mourinho on this but I was saying from early season that Martial was playing crap.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

The squad Moyes was left was good and needed 3 additions just like most other seasons.

I've never believed that. Winning the title the year before was down to how utterly brutal the league was quality wise and City being an absolute basket case. I remember saying it over and over this squad needed improving and we got away with murder.

Look at that squad picture. Evra needed replacing and it was obvious the season before. Ferdinand and Vidic fell of a cliff that season, doubt anyone could have called that.

Fergusons last call was to pave the way for Rooney to leave, as he forsaw he was coming towards the end. And I'm sure most people understood that when in that interview on the final day he said Wayne put in a transfer request.

Wellbeck was raw, Cleverly was trying to regain his game from injury, Anderson was Anderson. Kagawa was hit and miss.

Giggs in his final year, playing a bit part role. Valencia back to his infuriating worst.

Our midfield was Fletcher when fit. Carrick. Fellaini who got that broken wrist or something. Cleverly, Anderson when fit. We all knew Fergie kept overlooking the midfield problem and just papering over it with more firepower up front or out wide, but that is a genuinely brutal midfield.

Think people just totally misjudged the title win and it being SAF's final season, and completely overlooked the issues with the squad being handed over. It was a mess.

The only real shining light in it, was we had the best striker in the league, who then went into a tizzy cause Fergie left.

Whatever about Moyes making a ****ing hash of it, he clearly wasn't helped by the club not prepared for Transfer expenditure in the summer, a reserve team short on ready talent for the first team and a squad that was not in great shape.

It's not an excuse for him, but can't ever fathom how people look at that squad start of season and think it was good or should have competed for a title or something.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

It's not an excuse for him, but can't ever fathom how people look at that squad start of season and think it was good or should have competed for a title or something.

Yes. Totally correct.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

Low 20 million for an English defender with over 50 games experience and in top form? If his name was stones he would cost 50 million.

I'd have some concerns over Keane also tbh.

I'm always worried when it comes to stand out defenders in relegation threatened clubs. Bit like goalkeepers. Can look excellent because they have so much work to get through, and as mentioned above teams like Burnley would be building around the defensive shape and organisation.

I was impressed with how easy he took to his England debut mind you and looked very assured. Just feel that Van Gaal was a pretty good judge of player and if he let him go, it was because he didn't think he would ultimately be good enough.

Of course things can change and players can change in different environments, but I'd say should Keane arrive I wouldn't herald him as anything and probably be one of those signings I'd need to be convinced by. Ala Shaw

Cantona's Collars

Didn't see this posted.

TheDoc

Hococop wrote: »

Did a doc not mention he had a back issue? Could be wrong

Also how much would he cost?

Yup that was me.

Below touches on it
http://www.espnfc.com/club/real-madrid/86/blog/post/3112177/breaking-down-bale-injury-plagued-real-madrid-career-season-by-season

I heard it on a Spanish based podcast. They were discussing would Bale be sold this summer and might the club finally be running out of patience. Madrid based guy was saying Perez is a massive believer in Bale and would be against selling him. Zidane is a massive fan and isn't looking to push, but it cannot keep getting overlooked with his injuries.

Looks like an issue with his back and with any footballer that is a serious red flag with potential muscle injuries in calfs and hamstrings. Probably doesn't help he is an extremely explosive player.

Considering the money he will cost, it's an unquestionable big risk, as typically with back and lower back issues, you just have them for life.

For recent examples of, think of Gundagon. He suffers from back issues, and it's just so sporadic and a massive risk.

Absolutely wonderful player and that would be an incredible solution to our RW, and him in form is the sort of player that launches you into a title bid. I'm a fan of his, but have been consistently worried that these injuries are robbing us from an incredible player.

TheDoc

posturingpat wrote: »

This carry on of crying about clubs trying to buy the league etc. really gets my back up. Who cares? They still only get to put 11 players on the field each week just like everybody else.
Lots of clubs fans keep using money spent to get one up on each other but i say **** it, if we go spend 500 million and win all around us next year i'd be only too delighted so i'm not going to cry about somebody else doing it.

I find it pretty rich coming from us as United fans, considering we had a policy in the 90's of just buying the best players from the domestic league

TheDoc

yabadabado wrote: »

If Mbappe is signed by Real for 130m then they will surely try to balance the books a little.Im sure they have other targets as well so could be spending 200m and Bale is the the most likely candidate they could sell to bring in big money imo.

I suppose they may go down the route of selling 2 or 3 fringe players like Morata/Isco.

Isco has come in for Bale and been absolutely brilliant. Crazy to think it wasn't long ago he nearly left them. I'd be surprised if the talk about Bale isn't coming from Isco's form really. And with Marco Asensio they have a wonderful player coming up behind.

Morata has also been pretty lethal for them this year considering him playing generally second fiddle to Benzema. Benzema was likely to leave this summer but again I'd imagine form has changed minds.

You just don't know what can happen at that club. Sometimes they make stupid decisions against the managers wishes but I feel for the first time in ages they've a manager without enough clout that won't be interfered with.

GSPfan

@TheDoc re: Martial

What do you expect his position would be in the future? Will he continue to be a wide forward or a centre forward?

The reason I ask is because I personally don't think playing out wide suits him at all in a 451 Jose formation. You have to be willing to bust a gut to get forward and back and he just doesn't have that in him. I also don't see Jose playing him up front and as a few here have said, it would be a massive gamble to go into next season with the idea that Martial is our starting centre forward.

So what do we (Jose) do with him? Do we play him out wide and hope he grasps the role as Jose wants, or play him up front and hope he becomes the striker?

I genuinely want to know because saying Jose should be able to manage performances out of him is grand but how?

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In terms of technical/physical attributes maybe - but I would say it is rashford's application and attitude that have him in the team ahead of martial rather than some vendetta against Martial.

Both can be shut out of games, but it is far more likely that you will see a sulky disinterested Martial after 70minutes of a frustrating game than you will Rashford, and that is the key difference imo. Martial has rarely looked like taking a chance in the team when given it this season.

I would blame Mourinho for this in some respects, but Martial has to take personal responsibility too.

Martial's problem is his attitude imo, not something I would say about Rashford.

You may say i am just being lead by Mourinho on this but I was saying from early season that Martial was playing crap.

Well yeah that's what I mean, Jose has an issue with his application/attitude. Wether it's actually a "real" thing, I don't know. I'd say he does look a bit moody and someone who get's disinterested.

But then maybe it's because of what is being tasked to do, which isn't his strengths.

I'd use the term "lead by Mourinho" in the sense that I'm surprised there isn't more "Hey Jose, whats the story, why havn't you got this kid firing" as opposed to him saying that the only issue is Martial's attitude or whatever.

And no disagreeing that Martial has been pretty brutal this season. But then I guess worth wondering why is that? What is causing that? I'd imagine it's a £50m striker being asked to play left back when we don't have possession, and I'm not sure I overly disagree with him either being pissed of about it (obvious slight exaggeration there :P )

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

I find it pretty rich coming from us as United fans, considering we had a policy in the 90's of just buying the best players from the domestic league

I think we signed Cantona, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham who were top players before playing for ManUtd, who else?

I don't know how it was in early 90s but looking at the players they were signed from smaller clubs except very few.

Trigger

Quiet day at the office there Doc? :pac:

RockSalto

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think we signed Cantona, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham who were top players before playing for ManUtd, who else?

I don't know how it was in early 90s but looking at the players they were signed from smaller clubs except very few.

But they were still among the best in the league. Same as Keane and to a lesser extent - David May and Henning Berg who'd won the title with Blackburn.

Trigger

Wenger in

https://twitter.com/markogden_/status/869133076559003648

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

@TheDoc re: Martial

What do you expect his position would be in the future? Will he continue to be a wide forward or a centre forward?

The reason I ask is because I personally don't think playing out wide suits him at all in a 451 Jose formation. You have to be willing to bust a gut to get forward and back and he just doesn't have that in him. I also don't see Jose playing him up front and as a few here have said, it would be a massive gamble to go into next season with the idea that Martial is our starting centre forward.

So what do we (Jose) do with him? Do we play him out wide and hope he grasps the role as Jose wants, or play him up front and hope he becomes the striker?

I genuinely want to know because saying Jose should be able to manage performances out of him is grand but how?

Well just my opinion, but I think he will be a striker. I think it's fine for players or strikers to operate in wider positions at times. Granted they might need to run those channels anyway, I think it's fine in a players early years to see the pitch from other spots.

But worth remembering Martial moved out wide for Van Gaal because he was vested in Rooney playing him up front. And Martial took to it like water and was still very good. But I think Van Gaal gave him more license there to do what he does best. Sure there was defensive responsibility but I think he just gave more room and slack to his clearly nonchalant attitude at times.

If we can think back to a spell where Rooney was injured and Martial played up front, he was pretty special imo. Strong, could hold the ball, has incredible close control and just general dribbling ability. Lightning quick and has lovely technique in front of goal that we witnessed loads.

Like any young striker, going to miss chances, but playing in that position more and more, they build the library of experience for what to do in X situation.

For me he "should" be a striker. Wether or not that actually comes to pass I don't know.

But for me, Martial and Rashford have been played the wrong way round. I think Rashford is the one that should be trained to play wide. He has immense pace, a great attitude to apply the managers requests, seems to like a tackle, tricky and has great delivery in that right foot.

So I look at them basically both being played out of position, but thats fine in their developement. But I'd think Martial would be a striker at 26/27 and Rashford to be that modern inverted winger/striker at 26/27.

I think the real problem here with them both, is ideally they would be squad players, and happy squad players at their age, to get time here and there to learn and then really come on strong the season after next. But with the impatience we all have, the requirement for the now, there will be demands for these players to likely start and be better then they should at the age. Like in reality, Rashford's goal return has been piss this year for someone who played so much. And that's fine.

So in reality, (context of my post) Martial and Rashford really arn't ready, and shouldn't be, starters in a Mourinho team that is looking to challenge for titles (league, potentially CL). They ideally would be squad players getting gametime here and there, being allowed to grow and develop in a more natural state.

But that is likely an old notion on my part. Everyone will want them delivering now. I've sympathy for Martial who operating under Van Gaal obviously learned a specific thing and got a certain way to play, and hasn't really adapted well to the Mourinho change. Rashford, performance wise hasn't either to be honest, but his mentality seems to be mentioned a lot that he is simply just adaptable.

TheDoc

astradave wrote: »

Quiet day at the office there Doc? :pac:

The off-season man

Don't have to be freaked about results and we can have lovely hypothetical/theoretical chats

*Yes its boring as **** in work today

TheDoc

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think we signed Cantona, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham who were top players before playing for ManUtd, who else?

I don't know how it was in early 90s but looking at the players they were signed from smaller clubs except very few.

Well I was only a kid at the time, so I take a lot of guidance from the various retrospective programmes and stuff that are on today. But I got the impression that many players we signed other teams were interested but we just blew rivals out of the water with fees and wages.

Trigger

Dunno if I'm Zerking it but fair play to Woody, I hope that other clubs would have done the same.

https://twitter.com/johncrossmirror/status/869108741723049984

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think we signed Cantona, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham who were top players before playing for ManUtd, who else?

I don't know how it was in early 90s but looking at the players they were signed from smaller clubs except very few.

The idea that United in the 90's had a policy of buying the best players from their rivals just simply isn't true.

sky88

Honestly think if you gave Jose the same squad as Moyes he would have struggled not as badly as moyes as he made far too many mistakes.

Giggsy11

RockSalto wrote: »

But they were still among the best in the league. Same as Keane and to a lesser extent - David May and Henning Berg who'd won the title with Blackburn.

I checked it, looks like we signed many players from midtable/lower table teams and from teams that were relegated. Very different approach IMO.

From the mid 90s, our team was from academy + Foreign players

RockSalto

Sorry, I thought Doc meant some of the best players in the league and not necessarily players from our direct rivals.

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

Well I was only a kid at the time, so I take a lot of guidance from the various retrospective programmes and stuff that are on today. But I got the impression that many players we signed other teams were interested but we just blew rivals out of the water with fees and wages.

Maybe but we hardly signed anyone to weaken the rival isn't it?

bucketybuck wrote: »

The idea that United in the 90's had a policy of buying the best players from their rivals just simply isn't true.

Yeah, looking at the list it was from either second division teams or teams that were relegated, finished in lower half with very few exceptions like Cantona, Cole, Yorke.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Wenger in

https://twitter.com/markogden_/status/869133076559003648

that meeting will be pretty explosive i say, some of the board members want wenger gone, others what him to stay but with a football director hired, id say it could honestly go 50/50

sky88

All the big teams spend big money so i dont think most of the top teams can really say anything.

i dont see a problem with spending the money.

Lord TSC

sky88 wrote: »

All the big teams spend big money so i dont think most of the top teams can really say anything.

i dont see a problem with spending the money.

If the money is there, I'd rather see it on the field than sitting in the bank....

RockSalto

sky88 wrote: »

All the big teams spend big money so i dont think most of the top teams can really say anything.

i dont see a problem with spending the money.

Exactly. I remember people (not Utd fans) defending Moyes saying they need to invest.

Same people then give out about trying to buy the league. :rolleyes:

DM_7

sky88 wrote: »

Honestly think if you gave Jose the same squad as Moyes he would have struggled not as badly as moyes as he made far too many mistakes.

Jose would not have arrived with a sense of gratitude. Moyes was (sadly) easily undermined by the players and did not have the strength to push Woodward/senior execs, Glazers to do what he wanted. Jose would have behaved like he was doing United a good deed by taking over from SAF.

I doubt Jose would have started a season with what Moyes started with.

Lord TSC

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose would not have arrived with a sense of gratitude. Moyes was (sadly) easily undermined by the players and did not have the strength to push Woodward/senior execs, Glazers to do what he wanted. Jose would have behaved like he was doing United a good deed by taking over from SAF.

I doubt Jose would have started a season with what Moyes started with.

By all accounts, there was money for Moyes but he seemed to focus on a narrow list of targets to a fault. Jose, imo, would not have; he would have moved quickly on when he realized targets were unobtainable (there's also the argument to be made that some of those unobtainable targets might not have been so unobtainable if we had Jose at the helm over Moyes).

The obsession Moyes had with the likes of Fabregas, even when Fabregas was telling him to go away, was what cost us badly that summer.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

that meeting will be pretty explosive i say, some of the board members want wenger gone, others what him to stay but with a football director hired, id say it could honestly go 50/50

Well they are saying that a two year contract is on offer for him so the Board would have already had that discussion I would say, which looks like it's up to Wenger whether he wants to stay or go

yabadabado

sky88 wrote: »

Honestly think if you gave Jose the same squad as Moyes he would have struggled not as badly as moyes as he made far too many mistakes.

I really don't think he would have.I think the players would have respected him more for a start and he would have gotten another season out of some of the older lads added to his transfer dealing probably would have been a lot better.
Not saying Jose would have won a league or anything but I think he would have managed to deal with the new job a lot better than Moyes.

TheDoc

RockSalto wrote: »

Sorry, I thought Doc meant some of the best players in the league and not necessarily players from our direct rivals.

That is what I meant, is that not what I posted? (Apologies if so)

But my point being, as per my understanding, we used to identify the same targets as everyone else and blow them out of the water with fees or wages etc.

Kerrydude1981

So how much will do you think the top teams will spend this summer?

Utd are apparently going to spend 200 million and City have 300 million to spend,what about the rest? Chelsea,Spurs,Arsenal,Pool and Everton??

Will the building of the new stadium curb Spurs spending,will Klopp be able to get some cash to spend,Wenger or whoever is in charge manage to get a Credit Union loan to buy a player, Conte I think wont go too mad spending and Koeman will probably be digging around the shelves of Michael Guineys

Trigger

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

So how much will do you think the top teams will spend this summer?

Utd are apparently going to spend 200 million and City have 300 million to spend,what about the rest? Chelsea,Spurs,Arsenal,Pool and Everton??

Will the building of the new stadium curb Spurs spending,will Klopp be able to get some cash to spend,Wenger or whoever is in charge manage to get a Credit Union loan to buy a player, Conte I think wont go too mad spending and Koeman will probably be digging around the shelves of Michael Guineys

Well by all accounts Liverpool have a bit of a war chest too, and looking to spunk 50m on Keita, which these days is probably right

yabadabado

I would be surprised if all the top 6 didn't spend 100m this summer.