Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

DM_7 wrote: »

Shaw and Martial great examples of the suspect transfer policy United had post SAF. Its great to be able to buy potential but to reach potential they need to join a stable team and even then its no sure thing. If they are lost to United this summer its more to do with that happened pre Jose.

Its very difficult to question Jose's approach to players coming in so far.

I think the transfer policy has been pretty fine under Van Gaal and Jose. What signing when announced did anyone take issue with? I don't remember any signing where people were "unsure" or not excited or thinking it was a good purchase.

The face it may or may not have turned out well is the benefit of hindsight, which no one will know at the time. I think we have had really good windows after Moyes.

The issue with the policy is that it's all for the manager in question, and with the relatively quick tunraround between Van Gaal and Jose, it's basically another rebuild.

Mourinho can't do what Van Gaal can, and probably vice versa. Each need specific environments and parameters to succeed. Van Gaal was building a flexible squad where players could do different things, mixing experience with youth under likely the assumption he would have three years, but also as he stated ensuring there was a core and platform there for when he left.

Mourinho has his specific requirements and environment he needs. And there is no point pretending, he can't manage young players, and by his own admission cannot manage soft players. So he needs hard, older, experienced players who are experts in their specific roles.

So yeah you are right, if they are sold it's not Jose fault, he can't work in that environment and it's no use forcing a situation on him that he can't be at his best. But at the same time its hardly the players fault, bought in by a predecessor who would have a medium-longterm vision and then having to change mentality over a summer and season to operate on the short term and a totally different way of everything. I've sympathy with some of the younger players in the way they have been treated this year, some of the older ones too.

Trigger

RockSalto wrote: »

Any chance we can post the contents as well? Not everyone has Twitter in work

In work myself and on phone so couldn't sorry, this link has it all though, it's what the tweets are linking to, there is actually 4 tweets

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-list-perisic-13108442[url][/url]

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

I just love Rashford is all. I want him to be a legend for us when he retires. That's the romantic in me.

But generally I couldn't care less about football players as it's the club I follow. Is there a huge list of players who have struggled in their first season or two and then went on to be great? Genuine question as I could probably argue there's a long listof players who struggled and only got worse as time went on.

Before anyone says Christiano struggled early on, he didn't. People remember his first years very wrongly. He was up and down but constantly improving very much like Marcus Rashford.

Well typically young players are going to be up and down. They are going to be inconsistent until they gain experience, they gain coaching and development and they become good players, average players or poor players.

Like I think if there is some critical analysis done of Rashford, there are things there that need improving or he won't make the grade. Because he is young, explosive, fast as **** he just gets you off your seat. Fast players do that. They skin someone and your like "oh **** gwan".

Don't get me wrong, I like Rashford, looks to have a great temperament and the fact he keeps going on those runs or taking 1v1's is really good. And I've sympathy for him operating in whats been a rubbish system for a lone striker in the last few games he has been playing.

But if he is to be a strike he needs to score goals, and improve his finishing. His return this season was poor. His finishing has been very wasteful.

But that is the point. He is young, he is learning. You have to put up with the inconsistency, if you want players to learn and get better. Otherwise we operate a policy where we buy ready made stars for €€€€. Personally, while I rank winning titles and trophies as the most important, I enjoy like any fan, a player that starts with the team young, and develops into a monster.

I'd also say there is yes, likely a large list of players who didn't look like much in their early days and went onto be excellent, I'd say the list of players who looked unreal young and went onto average careers is likely larger.

GSPfan

TheDoc wrote: »

Or has the manager failed to be able to harness the tools at his disposal, and painted a picture that the issue is the players, as it couldn't possibly be him.

But isn't it true regardless. Jose is the manager, he has a tactical vision and tries to coach players to fit that vision. If a player can't meet his demands but another player can then it is the players fault. Not intentionally but sometimes it's just how it is.

Comparison:
Im a manager in my workplace and ive 25+ people reporting to me, if I could transfer list 2 or 3 of them I would. No amount of managing will make these people better as they are fundamentally not capable to carry out the role they are employed for. Previous management put them in these positions so I'm stuck with them. At least in the football world you can sell them on.

Leroy42

I think the difference with Rashford and Shaw is that the potential maybe be there for both but the application seems somewhat different.

Jose has been effusive in his praise of Rashford. Mainly his attitude, his will to fight etc.

Jose has on a number of ocassions, and LVG called it into question as well, Shaws application.

You can have all the talent in the world but if you are not prepared to work then no are no use to anybody. That is where I have the issue with Shaw. I'm not there, I have no clue, but if Jose is saying it then I can only take it as, at least partially true. Given that Shaw has had issues in the past (weight etc) and then suffered a terrible injury, I would opt on the side of him not applying himself fully.

So after 3 years we are still waiting for him to even engage properly. Once he does that, he may achieve his potential. That is a big ask. For a club with the aspirations of Utd, how long do you give someone to start to apply themselves?

Cotts72

RockSalto wrote: »

Any chance we can post the contents as well? Not everyone has Twitter in work

Six defenders apparently being looked at, main 3 being :
Keane
Lindelof
Marquinhos

Strikers
Griezemann
Belotti
Lukaku

DM
Matic
Bakayoko
Dier

Wingers
Perisic
Willian

Keepers in case ddg leaves
Oblak
Schemeichel

HONKEY TONK

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/869483709484982272

GSPfan

TheDoc wrote: »

But if he is to be a strike he needs to score goals, and improve his finishing. His return this season was poor. His finishing has been very wasteful.

I think his goal return this season is a symptom of the formation we played as no one else in the team outside of the centre forward who played every minute of every game done any better.

Id also argue, without having any facts to back it up, that Rashford didn't fluff as many chances as you think. Zlatan could have doubled his goals tally with the amount of chances he squandered. Rashford was feeding off scraps or creating his own chances mostly.

But yes Rashford can and will improve on his finishing of course.

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

But isn't it true regardless. Jose is the manager, he has a tactical vision and tries to coach players to fit that vision. If a player can't meet his demands but another player can then it is the players fault. Not intentionally but sometimes it's just how it is.

Comparison:
Im a manager in my workplace and ive 25+ people reporting to me, if I could transfer list 2 or 3 of them I would. No amount of managing will make these people better as they are fundamentally not capable to carry out the role they are employed for. Previous management put them in these positions so I'm stuck with them. At least in the football world you can sell them on.

Haha I know the sentiment on the last paragraph. Literally looking at a team in front of me that I'd be advertising a fire sale.

At the same time, I have a really fluid, efficent, high quality relationship with my boss. Our team operate at a high standard, pretty much nearly on auto pilot and there is little to no micromanagement. I know there is some other managers that if they came into the role, it would just break down. I'd be getting down at a different working environment that no longer values me like it once did, I'd lose responsibility that I once had an that would eventually lead to someone having to leave, me or the boss. So there is the flipside to your analogy

Like I don't think anyone is really to blame in some cases. Not every manager is flexible and can do good with anything.

For all the **** people give Pep about only being able to do well with a certain style, Jose is the same. Both need massive outlays of money to build and construct the environment that allows them to be successful.

So there is going to be casualties there. I don't think it's outlandish to have some sympathy with Martial, a young player brought in for big money, told he would be our future #1 striker and likely being nurtured and coached meticulously for this role. Not even a year later a new manager comes in, takes away his number, shifts him to the wing, berates him in public and leaves him out of squads or on the bench. And who knows what coaching is happening in the background exactly?

So I appreciate and understand both sides, but maybe a part of leans more on the "manager should maximise resources better".

Like for your analogy, you can't keep hiring and firing large portions of your team to hit you're KPI's and targets. Eventually your manager is going to start wondering maybe the issue isn't the staff, but actually you, if you can't adapt and be flexible to maximise performance from a diverse group.

Not a dig at Jose, I know the environment he can be successful in, like we all should, and shouldn't be surprised at how that will come to pass. I just think I just find myself raising eyebrows when people latch onto things like "attitude problems" as reasons for players not working out, which is conveniently something we as fans can just simply never verify. And the fact I think Mourinho is expert at peddling PR to cover his own failings or weakness'/mistakes.

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

I think his goal return this season is a symptom of the formation we played as no one else in the team outside of the centre forward who played every minute of every game done any better.

Id also argue, without having any facts to back it up, that Rashford didn't fluff as many chances as you think. Zlatan could have doubled his goals tally with the amount of chances he squandered. Rashford was feeding off scraps or creating his own chances mostly.

But yes Rashford can and will improve on his finishing of course.

Yeah I didn't do any fact checking, just in my head feels like Rashford was very wasteful, as much as anyone else, but missed a lot of guilt edge chances. And he did have like a 4 month goal drought.

Obviously as you say, the mitigating circumstances I put in brackets in a previous post are him being played out wide and Zlatan owning that #1 spot. And his chance up front in recent times has been coincided with some horrendous tactics for a striker to thrive in.

So I'm not exactly saying it was terrible, I just don't think it was sensational either.

He has one more PL goal than Martial, yet played something like 8 matches more. And I'd say minutes wise played abundantly more.

I'm a bit interested in the Rashford vs Martial thing. While they have some similarities, they are also different. Personally I think Martial is currently the better player, and probably also feel Martial has the scope/ceiling in his potential to be much better. Depending on their development and what Mourinho decides, it's a crucial time for both. There is a feeling that there is only room for one in a Jose M squad, and we know who that is at present. But really there is room for both, and probably comes back to the squad management thing, that while both players had plenty of game time, there was opportunities for them to play in easier matches for development or better circumstances up front and rest Zlatan, but it never happened.

Mitch Connor

Personally I would love to see us line up with a front three of Greizmann, Rashford and Martial, with all three rotating through the front line. So much pace, skill and movement.

GSPfan

@TheDoc

I can relate to your view on management in the workplace completely. Especially the piece on micromanagement.

Just wondering now that you say it, would we have labelled LVG a micromanager? Very strict on what is expected with each role and seemingly discouraged initiative from players. Things to be done his way or you're out.

Has Jose given them more freedom? Or is he more of the same?

TheDoc

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think the difference with Rashford and Shaw is that the potential maybe be there for both but the application seems somewhat different.

Jose has been effusive in his praise of Rashford. Mainly his attitude, his will to fight etc.

Jose has on a number of ocassions, and LVG called it into question as well, Shaws application.

You can have all the talent in the world but if you are not prepared to work then no are no use to anybody. That is where I have the issue with Shaw. I'm not there, I have no clue, but if Jose is saying it then I can only take it as, at least partially true. Given that Shaw has had issues in the past (weight etc) and then suffered a terrible injury, I would opt on the side of him not applying himself fully.

So after 3 years we are still waiting for him to even engage properly. Once he does that, he may achieve his potential. That is a big ask. For a club with the aspirations of Utd, how long do you give someone to start to apply themselves?

Van Gaal did indeed call out his fitness issue, but then also praised him for how he took the criticism and addressed it. And before that injury he looked in fantastic shape and started the season like a train.

I think the issue with Shaw is tactical and his natural instinct. Shaw is a modern attacking fullback. He has the pace and the engine to run the line, and when he hits the final third he is incisive.

I'd say this absolutely freaks Mourinho out, where he wants a more disciplined fullback to execute his plans. The public criticism of Shaw, so what we know, has all been tactical. His failure to press at Watford, Jose saying he played the game for Shaw and him basically saying he doesn't understand what he wants and needs to learn it.

Shaw clearly has explosive pace. Like ridiculous pace. If he has those weight problems, I doubt its because he doesn't look after himself, but just that he is that sort of person and needs to work harder. Can be tough to get driven and focused if your manager is just berating you, and there is no real sign of inclusion on the horizon, to work harder then everyone else. Which he may have to do if he is of that sort of build.

Not an excuse, but just a point about the manager being flexible and understanding different situations. At the end of it all there is a young man who made a dream move that is struggling to work out, along with injury after injury.

I can see someone like Shaw in a Pochetino, Klopp or Pep team and being labelled one of the best in the league. I wasn't really there with the Shaw hype at first, and while I'm still not 100% convinced, I've seen enough displays in his three seasons to see there is a quality fullback in there and I'd be surprised if Mourinho didn't give him every opportunity to recover, get fit and hit and run of games to see.

Should next season be more of the same, I think 4 seasons is more then enough to say it hasn't worked out.

GSPfan

Who wins in a one on one game of football between Martial and Rashford, shooting into one goal with DDG in goal and it's first to 3 wins?

Basically old school street football FA Cup rules.

I'm going with Rashford, I think he just has more fight in him. Martial would pretend his dinner is ready and had to go home if he was losing.

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

@TheDoc

I can relate to your view on management in the workplace completely. Especially the piece on micromanagement.

Just wondering now that you say it, would we have labelled LVG a micromanager? Very strict on what is expected with each role and seemingly discouraged initiative from players. Things to be done his way or you're out.

Has Jose given them more freedom? Or is he more of the same?

Ironically in a lot of ways they are the same, but then at the same time polar opposites.

Both pretty much have a "my way or the highway" approach, both appear to have a specific environment and setup they require for success. While the "philosophy" of both is actually drastically different (which I always found fascinating considering Mourinho learned so much under Van Gaal)

Jose prefers specialists as opposed to Van Gaal who likes multi disciplined players. Both have a similar view and take on how the defensive side of the game should work. I'm not really sure what each's take is on the attacking side, but they did seem to differ, especially with how they expected a 10 to work.

I'm not sure in what depth Mourinho goes in terms of his player developement and coaching in a team environment. From what I gather from reading he operates on the basis "footballers can't deal with large volumes of information" so things are usually concise and to the point, fed in short bursts. There isn't lengthy individual sessions done, but conversations that take place in an office or on the training ground.

Van Gaal was much more heavy on this side. Probably from his teaching background, but also that he firmly believed making players understand, making them smarter, makes better players (I agree with this) as it allows them the ability to problem solve on the fly and to take responsibility on the pitch. There was a reason he didn't march the touchline barking orders. And there is a reason Jose does.

It was apparent that while Van Gaal's approach aliented, bored and upset some players(can probably guess who) there is plenty of players, former or currently in our team, that loved this approach. Only recently listening to a Johnny Evans piece where he said while ultimately he was told he was being sold, he has no doubt Van Gaal made him a better player. Darren Fletcher was also complimentary of Van Gaal, even after being sold. Thought it was telling Michael Carrick was anything but in his interview for the same series.

Morgan Schneiderlan recently had an interview where he said he struggled massively, as his natural game went as his thoughts were all "what does the manager need me doing here". But I guess the point is with repetition and learning it becomes second nature, if you have the brain and application for it. Memphis is another that said while he was clear on what he needed to do, he was having to be less instinctive and off the cuff, and he struggled with having less time in the Premier League, having these new thoughts and things to remember and do.

So I think both are very similar in that they want a very specific thing and role from their players, specific operations and movements within the system, but their delivery method of how to do this is drastically different.

The fear I'd have with Mourinho is that he is constantly telling some players they arn't doing what he wants, but I'd love to know how he goes about telling them and showing them what he needs.

Like I don't see Mhikitaryian doing anything "better" now then when he first arrived, if anything taking a nosedive in terms of form and performance. While someone like Hererra looks abundantly more comfortable and assured in what he is doing.

I think and do hope, and I'd say I'm very hopeful, next season we see a much more cohesive and "easier" on the eye United team, as Jose acquires more players that are the type he can work with, get his message to, and ultimately start playing the way he wants.

Over the course of the season got into reading some stuff about not just him, but where all his influences came from. And while his own "personal" thing is typically when the chips are down or the **** hits the fan, lock up shop and defend, the principles for which his "philosophy" come from, are made interesting. And so at odds with the likes of a Cryuff influenced stlye(if your into the nerdy side of football)

RobertKK

At the moment it looks like Zlatan is staying.

hufpc8w3adnk65

RobertKK wrote: »

At the moment it looks like Zlatan is staying.

??

RobertKK

MrMac84 wrote: »

??

No news.

I just think he gets another year at United, and could be back sooner next season than initially thought.

That said I would love Griezmann plus a top striker to play in front of him, as we need goals, goals and more goals...

Cantona's Collars

Nice to see they had to put the Europa trophy in it's own cabinet,not enough room to fit it in with all the rest of the trophies.:D:D

Hococop

I see Dortmund sacked their manager, will players want out I wonder?

Cookiemunster

Hococop wrote: »

I see Dortmund sacked their manager, will players want out I wonder?

It's been on the cards for a few weeks, so it's not really a surprise. I doubt any big names other than Aubamyang will be leaving this summer and he'd be leaving even if Tuchel had stayed. PSG are the favourites for his signature.

jayo26

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUtb8wqhRVK/

Worth signing up to Instagram just to follow him on his own.

Mitch Connor

RobertKK wrote: »

No news.

I just think he gets another year at United, and could be back sooner next season than initially thought.

That said I would love Griezmann plus a top striker to play in front of him, as we need goals, goals and more goals...

from what i had read he wasn't sure about signing a new contract at United for next season anyway - as he wasn't sure if he could be at the right physical level again next season. Have to think this knee injury and the impact it will have can only make getting physically ready (to the level he wants) near impossible.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/scoutsattending/status/869504354398633986

Reported in April that Mourinho wanted Lewandowski, seems they were both at Monaco GP last weekend

2+2=Whatever journo's want.

I suppose no Lukaku,no Morata,no Bellotti and all of a sudden it's Lewandowski.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Just a thought. And it's a thought taking a firmer hold as I see some posters and posts just writing off some players, where they were being championed not even a year ago (TSC not saying I remember you specifically bigging Shaw or Martial or anything)

Yeah, your point is fair enough. I can't remember if I did or didn't champion Martial or Shaw, but I will say that a year is a long time in football, so I think people can change their opinions on whether a player is worth keeping or not. If presented with a season's worth of preformances, people are entitled to readjust their beliefs of players.

My own take would be that Martial and Shaw are young, have a world of potential, but have underpreformed. Typically, I'd argue that means they need to be second choice going into the next season; that we shouldn't be relying on them, and that taking that pressure off them would be better for their long term development. I think I've kept the narrative for a while now that "Promote Youth" should be lower down the priority list than "Create a solid foundation". Ideally, first teamers would be brought in to take the pressure off the young underpreformers.

The issue is that, in the current climate, neither might be happy with a squad player role and both would fetch a tidy sum. So while I might not necessarily want either gone, I can understand why it might be more tempting for Jose and the club to cash in if a good offer comes in for someone whose second choice.

I wouldn't be championing Rashford either, as an aside; I think we'd be absolutely nuts to go into next season with him as our Number 1.

Griezmann - Lukaku - Bale.

I can dream

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/scoutsattending/status/869504354398633986




2+2=Whatever journo's want.

I suppose no Lukaku,no Morata,no Bellotti and all of a sudden it's Lewandowski.

They were both at one of the biggest celebrity sporting events in the world?

Its on boys!

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah, your point is fair enough. I can't remember if I did or didn't champion Martial or Shaw, but I will say that a year is a long time in football, so I think people can change their opinions on whether a player is worth keeping or not. If presented with a season's worth of preformances, people are entitled to readjust their beliefs of players.

My own take would be that Martial and Shaw are young, have a world of potential, but have underpreformed. Typically, I'd argue that means they need to be second choice going into the next season; that we shouldn't be relying on them, and that taking that pressure off them would be better for their long term development. I think I've kept the narrative for a while now that "Promote Youth" should be lower down the priority list than "Create a solid foundation". Ideally, first teamers would be brought in to take the pressure off the young underpreformers.

The issue is that, in the current climate, neither might be happy with a squad player role and both would fetch a tidy sum. So while I might not necessarily want either gone, I can understand why it might be more tempting for Jose and the club to cash in if a good offer comes in for someone whose second choice.

I wouldn't be championing Rashford either, as an aside; I think we'd be absolutely nuts to go into next season with him as our Number 1.

Griezmann - Lukaku - Bale.

I can dream

While i can understand not wanting to rely on Rashford to lead us next season - at what point do you think a gamble has to be taken with a player - or should United simply not gamble at all?

You sign those three and Rashford isn't getting much of a look in for 3 or 4 years - unless he benches one of them (which you can argue is what should be required).

If you thought that United considered he'd be ready to lead the line 18/19, do you 'make do' next season rather than spend big on another young striker or do you accept the timing just isn't right for Rashford and get someone with a more immediate upside impact?

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They were both at one of the biggest celebrity sporting events in the world?

Its on boys!

We are signing Ant and Dec too,they were also there.:p

Poor Jose musn't have had tickets for the Grand Prix,he was back in London the day of the race.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

While i can understand not wanting to rely on Rashford to lead us next season - at what point do you think a gamble has to be taken with a player - or should United simply not gamble at all?

Same as any gamble, you only take it when you can afford to lose.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Same as any gamble, you only take it when you can afford to lose.

So at a club like United.... never?

Cantona's Collars

It's a verified account but we'll see what happens....



https://twitter.com/hesham786/status/869525674670907392

Time for the news. All gone on quiet on his front but I was told by an impeccable source Utd are considerably leading the race for Fabinho!


https://twitter.com/hesham786/status/869533722865000448

It's made me confident on this front now. Just praying that we get the deal over the line and City / Juve don't hijack it. In our hands now.

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

It's a verified account but we'll see what happens....



https://twitter.com/hesham786/status/869525674670907392

Time for the news. All gone on quiet on his front but I was told by an impeccable source Utd are considerably leading the race for Fabinho!


https://twitter.com/hesham786/status/869533722865000448

It's made me confident on this front now. Just praying that we get the deal over the line and City / Juve don't hijack it. In our hands now.

I seen that. He is a fan blogger for Men, dunno where he would get his sources from.. looking through his twitter he doesn't seem to post a lot of news for RTs though

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So at a club like United.... never?

Not at all, and the club has taken many gambles over the year, not least when it has come to kids. (Class of 92...)

But if you want to take a gamble on a kid in a vital position then you need the rest of the team to be settled and ready to support that gamble, and we are far from being in that position.

The alternative is to be in a position where the consequences of the gamble failing aren't too significant, and again we are not in that position right now, we simply cannot afford another season with such a poor conversion rate.

There will of course be times that Manchester United can gamble on the next big thing, plenty of scenarios in which we could go for it. But not right now, not after what has happened in the past 4 years.

Pro. F

DM_7 wrote: »

If AG arrives and costs 100million, I cant see United spending as huge on more players.

More Bailly or Mkhitaryan type costs.

This is an interesting point. I'd been assuming that Griezmann and Lukaku or Belotti were likely signings, since they make so much sense for two positions of need. But, thinking about it because of your post, that doesn't fit with how United have been buying over the last few years. It's been one huge signing each season, accompanied by some smaller (but still good) signings.

So if the club signs Griezmann (which seems the most likely given all the talk) then that means the CF signing is not going to be one of the obvious two of Lukaku or Belotti. I'm assuming Kane is not at all a possibility.

Jose's system needs a CF who is strong at holding up the ball, and preferably is also tall or hard working. So have we been linked to anybody like that who isn't Belotti or Lukaku? I can't remember any such links. Anybody got any suggestions of those types of CFs, regardless of links?

If this is the way it works out - Greizmann plus a few of non-outrageously priced players - that would make me happy, because it would give the the likes of Rashford and Martial a fair chance to compete for their jobs, which is the sensible thing to do.

GSPfan

Id be delighted with Fabinho. Looks like a very versatile and good player. That would be a centre mid and stand in right back in one player. He could probably play the right side of a back 3 if we went that route too.

DDG
Fabinho Bailly Rojo
Valencia Herrera Pogba Shaw
Mkhitaryan
Griezmann Rashford

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

This is an interesting point. I'd been assuming that Griezmann and Lukaku or Belotti were likely signings, since they make so much sense for two positions of need. But, thinking about it because of your post, that doesn't fit with how United have been buying over the last few years. It's been one huge signing each season, accompanied by some smaller (but still good) signings.

So if the club signs Griezmann (which seems the most likely given all the talk) then that means the CF signing is not going to be one of the obvious two of Lukaku or Belotti. I'm assuming Kane is not at all a possibility.

Jose's system needs a CF who is strong at holding up the ball, and preferably is also tall or hard working. So have we been linked to anybody like that who isn't Belotti or Lukaku? I can't remember any such links. Anybody got any suggestions of those types of CFs, regardless of links?

If this is the way it works out - Greizmann plus a few of non-outrageously priced players - that would make me happy, because it would give the the likes of Rashford and Martial a fair chance to compete for their jobs, which is the sensible thing to do.

Still think he would love to keep Ibra another season. Go for that big striker the next summer (18).

He may go for the 'muscle' elsewhere, like how he used Fellaini in the EL final.

bangkok

Fabinho would be a fantastic signing.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

This is an interesting point. I'd been assuming that Griezmann and Lukaku or Belotti were likely signings, since they make so much sense for two positions of need. But, thinking about it because of your post, that doesn't fit with how United have been buying over the last few years. It's been one huge signing each season, accompanied by some smaller (but still good) signings.

So if the club signs Griezmann (which seems the most likely given all the talk) then that means the CF signing is not going to be one of the obvious two of Lukaku or Belotti. I'm assuming Kane is not at all a possibility.

Jose's system needs a CF who is strong at holding up the ball, and preferably is also tall or hard working. So have we been linked to anybody like that who isn't Belotti or Lukaku? I can't remember any such links. Anybody got any suggestions of those types of CFs, regardless of links?

If this is the way it works out - Greizmann plus a few of non-outrageously priced players - that would make me happy, because it would give the the likes of Rashford and Martial a fair chance to compete for their jobs, which is the sensible thing to do.

That's actually a good point. Who are the strikers outside of the obvious links we have had?

Morata potentially, but I'd imagine that is in the region of 50-60m unless the player really pushes for a move.

Aubamayang will likely be in the 40m region but not sure if he is suited?

I guess it is also possible that with the way the market was looking like it would shape up , months in advance, the club have budgeted for a big spend.

Timo Werner might be a bit of a left field suggestion. Great season with Leipzig playing predominantly as a striker, interestingly he's also very good off the right hand side. Quick, good finisher, strong enough, good interplay and linkup play.

Andre Silva had a pretty impressive season with Porto and seems to be living up to the hype.

Gabriel Barbosa moved to Inter and that hasn't really worked out for him. With talk they are looking to raise funds for an impending rebuild. Imagine we already took a look though and were unimpressed if we somehow landed on Perisic.

I'd say the problem, outside of the big names (mostly not available) you go to an age bracket where Mourinho himself probably would be hesitant investing, and we should be suspect of it considering his chequered track record with young players and how he has managed Martial. You move down from that level of Kane and Lukaku and you are looking at a rake of 19-21 yr olds where you wonder about consistency and if they might work out.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

This is an interesting point. I'd been assuming that Griezmann and Lukaku or Belotti were likely signings, since they make so much sense for two positions of need. But, thinking about it because of your post, that doesn't fit with how United have been buying over the last few years. It's been one huge signing each season, accompanied by some smaller (but still good) signings.

So if the club signs Griezmann (which seems the most likely given all the talk) then that means the CF signing is not going to be one of the obvious two of Lukaku or Belotti. I'm assuming Kane is not at all a possibility.

Jose's system needs a CF who is strong at holding up the ball, and preferably is also tall or hard working. So have we been linked to anybody like that who isn't Belotti or Lukaku? I can't remember any such links. Anybody got any suggestions of those types of CFs, regardless of links?

If this is the way it works out - Greizmann plus a few of non-outrageously priced players - that would make me happy, because it would give the the likes of Rashford and Martial a fair chance to compete for their jobs, which is the sensible thing to do.

To be honest i think jose is just looking for a striker who can score goals and works hard for the team. They dont have to be tall and strong like a drogba etc hence why greizemann is the no1 target

Lord TSC

Buckety covering exactly how I feel, Mitch.

You gamble when you don't mind losing or you are utterly desperate and need to shake things up. For me, with CL football back, now isn't the time to gamble. The reality is we are still in a precarious position, so risking everything on an inconsistent kid simply isn't something we should be doing right now. Next season needs to be getting back into a title chase and takin a gamble on youth would be irresponsible right now.

This window needs to be about putting us into the strongest possible scenario going into the next season, and gambling is too risky right now. We need someone who is as close to garunteed 20+ goals a season up front next season, and Rashford ain't it.

He'd still get a load of time as a backup across the front three though, especially given the number of games we play.

TheDoc

Ironically one of the strikers that keeps coming up in various lists,charts and comparisons is Chico. Havn't followed him much at all since his move. Finally learn to play as a 9 or is he in a team built for him?

PlanetFootball did a piece this week on Van Nistelroy and I was just looking back at a goal compilation on youtube. Wouldn't you just kill to find another one of him.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Ironically one of the strikers that keeps coming up in various lists,charts and comparisons is Chico. Havn't followed him much at all since his move. Finally learn to play as a 9 or is he in a team built for him?

PlanetFootball did a piece this week on Van Nistelroy and I was just looking back at a goal compilation on youtube. Wouldn't you just kill to find another one of him.

Last I heard is Hernadez is off to Lyon for €13m as Lacazettes replacement.

jayo26

GSPfan wrote: »

Id be delighted with Fabinho. Looks like a very versatile and good player. That would be a centre mid and stand in right back in one player. He could probably play the right side of a back 3 if we went that route too.

DDG
Fabinho Bailly Rojo
Valencia Herrera Pogba Shaw
Mkhitaryan
Griezmann Rashford

Is his name fabin'o'shea?

GSPfan

jayo26 wrote: »

Is his name fabin'o'shea?

Not sure Fabinho has ever played in goal or nutmegged Figo so he's not quite JOS. But maybe one day.

Lithium93_

jayo26 wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUtb8wqhRVK/

Worth signing up to Instagram just to follow him on his own.

I 2nd this..

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Buckety covering exactly how I feel, Mitch.

You gamble when you don't mind losing or you are utterly desperate and need to shake things up. For me, with CL football back, now isn't the time to gamble. The reality is we are still in a precarious position, so risking everything on an inconsistent kid simply isn't something we should be doing right now. Next season needs to be getting back into a title chase and takin a gamble on youth would be irresponsible right now.

This window needs to be about putting us into the strongest possible scenario going into the next season, and gambling is too risky right now. We need someone who is as close to garunteed 20+ goals a season up front next season, and Rashford ain't it.

He'd still get a load of time as a backup across the front three though, especially given the number of games we play.

Do we need a direct replacement for Rashford or a better balance overall. Is Griezmann not the 20 goal forward?

United need more width and pace. Need more goals from around the team. An argument can be made for a Benteke at Liverpool scenario if a big guy is signed but is not central to the play.

United might be better off singing a Ole or Hernanedez type poacher for the squad than a dominant striker. Get a more complete striker in another window.

Delboy5

@CheGiaevara: Being reported by the very reliable @RuizAntonito that Antoine Griezmann has told Atlético Madrid that he wants to leave the club https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/869556374891618304/photo/1

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Buckety covering exactly how I feel, Mitch.

You gamble when you don't mind losing or you are utterly desperate and need to shake things up. For me, with CL football back, now isn't the time to gamble. The reality is we are still in a precarious position, so risking everything on an inconsistent kid simply isn't something we should be doing right now. Next season needs to be getting back into a title chase and takin a gamble on youth would be irresponsible right now.

This window needs to be about putting us into the strongest possible scenario going into the next season, and gambling is too risky right now. We need someone who is as close to garunteed 20+ goals a season up front next season, and Rashford ain't it.

He'd still get a load of time as a backup across the front three though, especially given the number of games we play.

But you potentially have Rashford, Martial and Greimann as a front three for goals, hopefully backed up by players like Pogba, Herrera, Mata, Mkhitaryan and Lingard for goals. I wouldn't be looking for us to rely on Rashford to drag us through games - just that maybe a first choice 11 could be given to him rather than spending 70million or something like that on Lukaku.

Per other comments - an argument could be made for a player like Hernandez being signed as a rotation player in the central position. Even if we sign Greizmann I think we will need another forward signing as Rooney is likely gone and I believe Ibrahimovic will be gone.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But you potentially have Rashford, Martial and Greimann as a front three for goals, hopefully backed up by players like Pogba, Herrera, Mata, Mkhitaryan and Lingard for goals. I wouldn't be looking for us to rely on Rashford to drag us through games - just that maybe a first choice 11 could be given to him rather than spending 70million or something like that on Lukaku.

Per other comments - an argument could be made for a player like Hernandez being signed as a rotation player in the central position. Even if we sign Greizmann I think we will need another forward signing as Rooney is likely gone and I believe Ibrahimovic will be gone.

Going into the new season with Martial and Rashford as two of our front three fills me with dread, if I'm honest.

Place the blame wherever you want, but nothing in the last year has made me think Martial works under Jose. Be that the managers system, the players attitude or whatever, I don't see what Martial has done to earn the responsibility of getting that first team spot.

Rashford looks like he has a world of potential, but we don't need potential right now, we need someone who can do it right. Ow.

I just don't believe Rashford or Martial are capable of leading United to a title challenge right now, and think if we have to rely on those two as two of our front three, it's going to be another season of fighting for forth.

RobertKK

Delboy5 wrote: »

@CheGiaevara: Being reported by the very reliable @RuizAntonito that Antoine Griezmann has told Atlético Madrid that he wants to leave the club https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/869556374891618304/photo/1

Yes, he will be a United player very soon by the looks of things.