Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Cantona threw plenty of strops... walked around with his collar up, i dont see much difference between him and ronaldo, but as long as they produced on the pitch i couldnt give a toss

Cantona did not throw strops when his teammates neglected to pass to him for the benefit of the team. You are lying.

Also, lol at taking issue with how he wore his collar.

wong

bangkok wrote: »

Plenty of games this season. Going into a season with only martial rashford and griezmann is risky considering our low scoring of this season. Just say lukaku came as well, could easily play lukaku grizemann and rashford/martial in the starting line up

My post implied that Zlatan is part of the squad and I wouldn't be surprised if he stays on for another year. As of right now, he is still with us so I'm factoring that into my thinking that signing 2 strikers is overkill.

My point still stands as well in that I think Martial and Rashford's strongest positions are up front. I'd sooner see us sign two wingers than two strikers.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Cantona did not throw strops when his teammates neglected to pass to him for the benefit of the team. You are lying.

Also, lol at taking issue with how he wore his collar.

I loved the collar up. You said ronaldo was a prima donna. So was cantona. I loved them both

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

I loved the collar up. You said ronaldo was a prima donna. So was cantona. I loved them both

And once again you are finding one similarity - both players fancied themselves - and pretending that means the players are the same in other areas. Cantona was happy to work for his team to win, regardless of whether he scored or not. Ronaldo is a far more selfish player.

This is obvious, but you won't address it. Instead you will focus on the angle of Cantona's collar, because that is the type of facile shlte you can engage with to avoid the relevant details.

dave_o_brien

bangkok wrote: »

I loved the collar up. You said ronaldo was a prima donna. So was cantona. I loved them both

You should read David Hume's treaties on causation and Jean-Paul Sartre's writing about Bad Faith. You seem to suffer with common enough philosophical maladies that are easily overcome by reading some of the classics and having a moment or two of self realisation.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

And once again you are finding one similarity - both players fancied themselves - and pretending that means the players are the same in other areas. Cantona was happy to work for his team to win, regardless of whether he scored or not. Ronaldo is a far more selfish player.

This is obvious, but you won't address it. Instead you will focus on the angle of Cantona's collar, because that is the type of facile shlte you can engage with to avoid the relevant details.

Of course ronaldo is more selfish, the best players always are.

Ronaldo works for his team as well, making those 20- 30 yard sprints to get into the box. To say he doesnt work hard for his team is laughable to be honest. He probably clears more corners with his head than any other real madrid player when defending set pieces

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/eaamalyon/status/869889499265945601

"Chelsea close on Bakayoko,United keen on Matic."

Jayop

Jesus this debate is more boring than the normal summer ****e.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Of course ronaldo is more selfish, the best players always are.

Ronaldo works for his team as well, making those 20- 30 yard sprints to get into the box. To say he doesnt work hard for his team is laughable to be honest. He probably clears more corners with his head than any other real madrid player when defending set pieces

I did not say that you utter spoofer.

TheDoc

Ronaldo is an example of a modern captain, and for me the quintessential reason why its just a nothing role anymore. Similar with Hazard at Belgium. Some teams and countries still retain the proper meaning of a captain but its lost its meaning ages ago.

There are different types and moulds of captains, but the one becoming more and more is basically just the best player.

Hererra for me is the best choice captain because he is in the mold of a real captain. He is clearly in sync with what the manager wants. He clearly has a strong reading of the game and has no issue instructing or harranging team mates, regardless of status. But he also sets an example with his pressing, his tackling and determination.

No doubt his antics are a pain in the hole, but I'd say the manager loves that. He's a cute whore of which there is no doubt. Personally I wouldn't like it, but considering how you can barely tackle anymore, meh.

Valencia is a candidate in terms of leading by example. Seemingly a really top pro in training, very humble and just values hard work. So the type that players look at as the example setter. But he isn't going to be doing much leading with his mouth or even his actions, just from the standards he sets. In terms of the requirements of a modern captain, considering there is media obligations and for me anyway, I like a Captain that is intelligent and interesting and for football standards, speaks intuitively. So language a barrier here

Carrick as a candidate is another in terms of leading by example. He is a horrendously monotone individual so doubt he is in anyway inspiring, I don't think he is the sort of character I'd like captaining my club. Very safe and sterotyped football guy that if I'm honest just annoys me when I hear him talk. And that is no problem, but I'd say giving it to him is a token gesture for his service and again further degrades the role, as I doubt he will play much next season.

Ibrahimovic would have been a good candidate if he stayed and was fit, but Hererra is really the standout at the moment for me. De Gea is also a potential candidate due to fan popularity and the general respect he commands as a world class player. But whenever I see him he's a bit of a reserved keeper who doesn't really orchestrate, so he might just be happier doing his trick.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Of course ronaldo is more selfish, the best players always are.

Ronaldo works for his team as well, making those 20- 30 yard sprints to get into the box. To say he doesnt work hard for his team is laughable to be honest. He probably clears more corners with his head than any other real madrid player when defending set pieces

Your failure to grasp the simple concept Pro.F is portraying (which is 100% spot on) is a bit ridiculous man.

TheDoc

Chelsea can keep Matic.

Seemed to revert to his poor form in the last few months, is a massively underwhelming midfielder for me, and I don't see how that will work considering the **** that went down between him and Jose.

We should only be looking at rivals top assets if anything, not their cast aways.

bucketybuck

wong wrote: »

My post implied that Zlatan is part of the squad and I wouldn't be surprised if he stays on for another year. As of right now, he is still with us so I'm factoring that into my thinking that signing 2 strikers is overkill.

You simply cannot factor Zlatan into any future planning, that would be insane. I was going to list the reasons why but they are pretty obvious to be honest.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

You simply cannot factor Zlatan into any future planning, that would be insane. I was going to list the reasons why but they are pretty obvious to be honest.

Romantic in me would like club to recognise his contribution this season and provide him a contract and support to come back.

Realist in me knows he is likely gone and we are getting a new striker.

His agent stuff is a bit postury and probably playing like hes not sweating for a new contract. I'd say if it gets put on the table he is singing immediately. So I take all this agent talk the club are not going to offer him a deal.

Crazy, two of my favourite players of the last ten years, Schweinsteiger and Ibrahimovic come to the club and I only get to see them for a season and towards their end.

Still feel delighted it happened. I never subscribed to the questions over Zlatan and knew he would be class, but he massively surpassed what I thought I'd see.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Hererra for me is the best choice captain because he is in the mold of a real captain. He is clearly in sync with what the manager wants. He clearly has a strong reading of the game and has no issue instructing or harranging team mates, regardless of status. But he also sets an example with his pressing, his tackling and determination.

No doubt his antics are a pain in the hole, but I'd say the manager loves that. He's a cute whore of which there is no doubt. Personally I wouldn't like it, but considering how you can barely tackle anymore, meh.

The fact that the laws on tackling are strict doesn't excuse his throwing himself to the ground clutching his face when he hasn't been touched and he instigated the contact. You can't use modern tackling as a cover for what Herrera does. It is just plain wrong and we shouldn't accept it.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/869897381822832640

Breaking | Antoine Griezmann is 3rd on Manchester United's list of priorities, behind Kylian Mbappé & Alvaro Morata, according to @DiMarzio.

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/869897146862120960

Breaking | Atletico Madrid forward Antoine Griezmann has an offer from PSG, but he doesn't want to play in Ligue 1, according to @DiMarzio.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

I did not say that you utter spoofer.

"Cantona was happy to work hard for his team to win"

Ok

Liam McPoyle

TheDoc wrote: »

Romantic in me would like club to recognise his contribution this season and provide him a contract and support to come back.

Realist in me knows he is likely gone and we are getting a new striker.

His agent stuff is a bit postury and probably playing like hes not sweating for a new contract. I'd say if it gets put on the table he is singing immediately. So I take all this agent talk the club are not going to offer him a deal.

Crazy, two of my favourite players of the last ten years, Schweinsteiger and Ibrahimovic come to the club and I only get to see them for a season and towards their end.

Still feel delighted it happened. I never subscribed to the questions over Zlatan and knew he would be class, but he massively surpassed what I thought I'd see.

Didn't a story appear after the extent of the injury was known that Jose offered him an extension out of loyalty but Ibra declined it out of pride.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

"Cantona was happy to work hard for his team to win"

Ok

"Cantona was happy to work for his team to win, regardless of whether he scored or not. Ronaldo is a far more selfish player."

Quote me correctly or STFU

Cantona's Collars

Fergie wants to be entertained:

'The counter attack has become more prominent today; the condition of pitches is superb today; and also the protection of footballers has become more prevalent,' he told UEFA.com

'So a lot of these things add up to what you're seeing as a far better spectacle.

'I think you have a duty and a responsibility to entertain. We have to always remember that there's a public to be entertained.

'In my time at United, it was "as long as you win." If it was 4-3, OK, or 5-4, OK. My last game was 5-5 (at West Brom in 2013).

'I couldn't ask for a better score in my last game at United.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-4558712/Man-United-duty-entertain-says-Alex-Ferguson.html#ixzz4if3bh1Rb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that the laws on tackling are strict doesn't excuse his throwing himself to the ground clutching his face when he hasn't been touched and he instigated the contact. You can't use modern tackling as a cover for what Herrera does. It is just plain wrong and we shouldn't accept it.

Oh I'm not. I totally dislike it and goes at odds with everything I would have learned as a footballer. I REALLY dislike how it's just a "thing" in the game now. Why I've been interested to see how this diving initiative comes in, because I think diving for penalties is actually the minority case, the larger scale diving issue is generally around the pitch for soft free kicks etc.

I'd never excuse it, I somewhat just begrudgingly accept it as someone who accepts things change. I don't subscribe it has made the game better or protects player anymore.

Was absolutely losing the rag at the Palace game with Zaha.

Ideally he would be pulled aside and told to cut that **** out, especially as someone who throws a tough tackle in himself. But I somewhat assume Mourinho won't do that, and considers that smart play or something.

So yeah personally I hate it and all it entails, but I've maybe just got past getting upset over it because there isn't anyone with enough bottle in the league, in a managerial position, to come out and say "yeah he dived, and I've had words with him" or a manager just stating they wont accept that in their team.

Did you hear Conte defending Moses? Embarrassing stuff. But it happens all over.

TheDoc

Rod Munch wrote: »

Didn't a story appear after the extent of the injury was known that Jose offered him an extension out of loyalty but Ibra declined it out of pride.

Yeah I read it and somewhat was unsure about the validity of it.

Fair play to both sides if that did take place. But I would have thought if Zlatan was that prideful he likely would have gone along the lines of "pay me when I'm back and I'm showing you I'm fit".

Like he isn't going anywhere bigger then us really is he?

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Oh I'm not. I totally dislike it and goes at odds with everything I would have learned as a footballer. I REALLY dislike how it's just a "thing" in the game now. Why I've been interested to see how this diving initiative comes in, because I think diving for penalties is actually the minority case, the larger scale diving issue is generally around the pitch for soft free kicks etc.

I'd never excuse it, I somewhat just begrudgingly accept it as someone who accepts things change. I don't subscribe it has made the game better or protects player anymore.

Was absolutely losing the rag at the Palace game with Zaha.

Ideally he would be pulled aside and told to cut that **** out, especially as someone who throws a tough tackle in himself. But I somewhat assume Mourinho won't do that, and considers that smart play or something.

So yeah personally I hate it and all it entails, but I've maybe just got past getting upset over it because there isn't anyone with enough bottle in the league, in a managerial position, to come out and say "yeah he dived, and I've had words with him" or a manager just stating they wont accept that in their team.

Did you hear Conte defending Moses? Embarrassing stuff. But it happens all over.

I think Pulis, Hughes and Dyche have all said they don't accept it. I think Mancini said the same when he was at City and had some policy about it. And iirc Pulis fines his players for diving and has admitted one of his players dived post match and said he'd be having a word or fine or something. There might be an issue of definition here, with some managers talking about faking injuries when they say "diving."

I'd think the same as you, that Jose probably encourages diving and faking injuries. But I'd hope the board and fans would still object to this and not just be fatalistic about it.

hefferboi

Got a message in a whatsapp at 12.45 today, "john o Shea was golfing with a guy who works with me yesterday giggs to be next manager of Sunderland 25/1"

An hour later and he's 1/8.

bangkok

Divers will see a 2 game ban from next season so that should see an end to it fairly quickly

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Divers will see a 2 game ban from next season so that should see an end to it fairly quickly

Again thought depends on what incidents are under remit.

If it's dives that result in penalties, actually is very little to enforce. There was that "glut" recently in one weekend, but it's a rare enough situation.

If they tackle diving all over the pitch, which they should, there will be bareboned squads all through the league

posturingpat

hefferboi wrote: »

Got a message in a whatsapp at 12.45 today, "john o Shea was golfing with a guy who works with me yesterday giggs to be next manager of Sunderland 25/1"

An hour later and he's 1/8.

Looks like a serious move for sure but i wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the bookies doing a bit of a job, spread a few grand around and you'd move a price no problem and get plenty of business from people jumping on the bandwagon.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Again thought depends on what incidents are under remit.

If it's dives that result in penalties, actually is very little to enforce. There was that "glut" recently in one weekend, but it's a rare enough situation.

If they tackle diving all over the pitch, which they should, there will be bareboned squads all through the league

Its only going to be reviewed for players that either won a penalty or if you get another player booked

HigginsJ

hefferboi wrote: »

Got a message in a whatsapp at 12.45 today, "john o Shea was golfing with a guy who works with me yesterday giggs to be next manager of Sunderland 25/1"

An hour later and he's 1/8.

I'd love to see it and I'd love to see him fail just to make sure he never gets the chance to manage United. Of course his media buddies would protect him if/when he flops but still, would be good to see.

RockSalto

Pro. F wrote: »

Cantona did not throw strops when his teammates neglected to pass to him for the benefit of the team. You are lying.

Never once saw Ronaldo give out if he didn't get the ball in a worse position than a teammate.

The thing is, as the focal point of his team (and because he's a great player), he usually picks up the best positions.

posturingpat

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd love to see it and I'd love to see him fail just to make sure he never gets the chance to manage United. Of course his media buddies would protect him if/when he flops but still, would be good to see.

Are you on the right thread?

posturingpat

RockSalto wrote: »

Never once saw Ronaldo give out if he didn't get the ball in a worse position than a teammate.

The thing is, as the focal point of his team (and because he's a great player), he usually picks up the best positions.

Stevie Wonder is that you?

HigginsJ

posturingpat wrote: »

Are you on the right thread?

Why so

RockSalto

posturingpat wrote: »

Stevie Wonder is that you?

I've seen him give out. Just not when he didn't get it in a worse position that wouldn't have benefitted the team.

For the record I watch Portugal quite a bit and he's an exemplary captain for his country for the most part.

bangkok

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd love to see it and I'd love to see him fail just to make sure he never gets the chance to manage United. Of course his media buddies would protect him if/when he flops but still, would be good to see.

Wtf

The_Kew_Tour

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd love to see it and I'd love to see him fail just to make sure he never gets the chance to manage United. Of course his media buddies would protect him if/when he flops but still, would be good to see.

What are you on about!?

Pro. F

RockSalto wrote: »

Never once saw Ronaldo give out if he didn't get the ball in a worse position than a teammate.

The thing is, as the focal point of his team (and because he's a great player), he usually picks up the best positions.

I've seen him giving out about not receiving a pass when the teammate made the right choice loads of times. I've also seen him giving out to his teammates when he's lost the ball himself. Seen him standing still and throwing his hands in the air when a teammate has lost possession. Seen him keeping the ball and trying to score himself when he should be passing. All that stuff, I have certainly seen him do.

He is better behaved nowadays, especially when the game is important and it's in the balance. And he's better behaved when he's captain for Portugal. But I still wouldn't be calling him good captain material, he's just too self aggrandising. Still agreat player of course, but that's a different thing.

RobertKK

So much speculation on who United want to sign.

One thing is Jose will sign people to get goals.
That is why he will sign Griezmann and a striker.
Some various claims of who he wants, I think he will try and get Belotti, who last season in Serie A got 11 goals with his right foot, 10 goals with his head and 5 with his left foot in 35 games, with 7 assists, and he is 23 years old.

If we keep Zlatan then I think Jose will try and incorporate all three into the team if this was how it works out in the transfer market.
Probably won't though.

HigginsJ

bangkok wrote: »

Wtf

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What are you on about!?

bangkok

HigginsJ wrote: »

You would love to see a united legend go to sunderland and fail at his job...

The_Kew_Tour

HigginsJ wrote: »

Who are his "media buddies"?

bangkok

Zlatan wants to stay at utd another season according to his agent

wanderer100

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd love to see it and I'd love to see him fail just to make sure he never gets the chance to manage United. Of course his media buddies would protect him if/when he flops but still, would be good to see.

That's honestly just fcuked up how you want to see a club legend fail. I don't know if you're a Utd fan or not but you certainly don't sound like one with that sh*te

HigginsJ

bangkok wrote: »

You would love to see a united legend go to sunderland and fail at his job...

Pretty much yea. For me he left an awfully sour taste in the mouth after the Van Gaal and Moyes reign but there was never any criticism directed at him, in fact I remember one story where they were praising him for being animated while LVG was sitting down.

Since leaving United he was touted for so many jobs that he hasn't gotten, much to the chagrin of those proper football men.

I have no arguments that he was a very good player for us over a very long period of time but I find him very hard to stomach and would be glad to never see him linked to the club again.

HigginsJ

wanderer100 wrote: »

That's honestly just fcuked up how you want to see a club legend fail. I don't know if you're a Utd fan or not but you certainly don't sound like one with that sh*te

Big fan, Giggs is just someone I can't and have never taken to. Like I said in my previous post, was a very good player for a long time but hope we never see him at OT again.

Liam McPoyle

HigginsJ wrote: »

Pretty much yea. For me he left an awfully sour taste in the mouth after the Van Gaal and Moyes reign but there was never any criticism directed at him, in fact I remember one story where they were praising him for being animated while LVG was sitting down.

Since leaving United he was touted for so many jobs that he hasn't gotten, much to the chagrin of those proper football men.

I have no arguments that he was a very good player for us over a very long period of time but I find him very hard to stomach and would be glad to never see him linked to the club again.

Personally id love to see him earn his stripes at a lower level team and some day manage united.

If he isn't up to the job elsewhere no harm, no foul, he won't get the United job but if he can then I'm perplexed as to why any fan wouldn't want someone that lived and breathed the club for more than 20 years, at the helm.

Very strange position you have imo.

beakerjoe

HigginsJ wrote: »

Pretty much yea. For me he left an awfully sour taste in the mouth after the Van Gaal and Moyes reign but there was never any criticism directed at him, in fact I remember one story where they were praising him for being animated while LVG was sitting down.

How do you know he wasnt acting in the best interests of the club in his time there as Assistant? What did he do exactly that left a sour taste in your mouth? Very odd indeed

Moyes and LVG was were the bucks stops, not Giggs.

HigginsJ

Rod Munch wrote: »

Personally id love to see him earn his stripes at a lower level team and some day manage united.

If he isn't up to the job elsewhere no harm, no foul, he won't get the United job but if he can then I'm perplexed as to why any fan wouldn't want someone that lived and breathed the club for more than 20 years, at the helm.

Very strange position you have imo.

That is fair enough, I wouldn't care if he was a success (I'd be highly doubtful that he would be) I'd rather he not be back.

The_Kew_Tour

Who are his media buddies?

johnnyryan89

HigginsJ wrote: »

Pretty much yea. For me he left an awfully sour taste in the mouth after the Van Gaal and Moyes reign but there was never any criticism directed at him, in fact I remember one story where they were praising him for being animated while LVG was sitting down.

Since leaving United he was touted for so many jobs that he hasn't gotten, much to the chagrin of those proper football men.

I have no arguments that he was a very good player for us over a very long period of time but I find him very hard to stomach and would be glad to never see him linked to the club again.

Why would criticism be aimed at him? He was only a player-coach under Moyes and even though he was Van Gaals assistant what would you criticise about him? He was vastly under experienced so criticism should be aimed at whoever wanted him there whether that be Van Gaal or the club. Now if you said I hope he never manages United cause he's scum for what he done to his brother and wife okay fair enough but hoping he never manages United cause of mistakes made by others while he was player-coach and assistant is strange.