Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No. I believe you are wrong.

The release clause in spanish contracts can only legally be enforced by Spanish clubs. They can reject whatever the hell they want from sides outside spain.

That is incorrect. Buyout clause is for all clubs

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

That is incorrect. Buyout clause is for all clubs

Nope.

DARK-KNIGHT

Buyout clause is applicable to all clubs

No it isn't

Yes it is

No it isn't

Yes it is

No it isn't

Yes it is

Ffs lads get your facts straight

Mitch Connor

In fact - after a little more reading - the player himself is the only person who can activate a buyout clause, to buy out his contact and leave on a free transfer (effectively). United could offer Madrid 200milion for AG and they could reject it - if AG isn't willing to go the route of buying out his contract then United can't force the situation.

RobertKK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes - I know that. I've said that.

With At.Madrid not being able to sign anyone they might be reluctant to sell him for *any* fee and AG might not want to insult the club and the fans by buying out his contract in such circumstances.

Are you telling me you are certain AG will buyout his contract and leave At.Madird in the lurch, if that is what it will take for them to sell him? Cause if that isn't your position then the transfer ban can have had an effect on the situation, while you claim it will make zero difference.

It is not Griezmann who created the situation that caused the transfer ban.
So in that regard I don't think he owes them anything as he has to think of his own career.
Atletico have made it clear before any transfer ban was upheld that they were not selling, despite the buyout clause.
I don't see the result of the transfer ban having a huge effect on the outcome.

In that ad for Huawei yesterday, it was Griezmann ending a call rather than not accepting a call from Jose. The deal is on regardless in my opinion.

RobertKK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fact - after a little more reading - the player himself is the only person who can activate a buyout clause, to buy out his contact and leave on a free transfer (effectively). United could offer Madrid 200milion for AG and they could reject it - if AG isn't willing to go the route of buying out his contract then United can't force the situation.

Yes it is down to the player, not the club.

beakerjoe

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes it is down to the player, not the club.

Like Herrera.

Griezmann may be sad to leave Madrid, esp if they are in a state transfer wise, but Im sure his advisors will make sure he thinks of his own career first.

pjohnson

beakerjoe wrote: »

Like Herrera.

Griezmann may be sad to leave Madrid, esp if they are in a state transfer wise, but Im sure his advisors will make sure he thinks of his own career first.

I'd try to broker a deal for him to arrive in January as a means of trying to reduce his price.


Give Atletico two choices.
1. We pay you "x" release fee now and take him and leave you a player short until January.
2. We agree to take him in January for a fee of "x-10%" leaving your squad intact until you can replace him.

beakerjoe

pjohnson wrote: »

I'd try to broker a deal for him to arrive in January as a means of trying to reduce his price.


Give Atletico two choices.
1. We pay you "x" release fee now and take him and leave you a player short until January.
2. We agree to take him in January for a fee of "x-10%" leaving your squad intact until you can replace him.

That wouldnt work for United. United need to buy now

If United are still in the champions league and Griezmann was playing for Madrid in the comp, his value to United at that stage would be for the league only which if last season is anything to go by, we would be out of the running already.

Its either buy him now or buy someone else.

DM_7

They could use this to get the full buy out clause. Removes any negotiation from United.

Use that money to get players like Koke and Carrasco under better contracts.

Do what Barca did with players signed up for regiatration later.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fact - after a little more reading - the player himself is the only person who can activate a buyout clause, to buy out his contact and leave on a free transfer (effectively). United could offer Madrid 200milion for AG and they could reject it - if AG isn't willing to go the route of buying out his contract then United can't force the situation.

What happens is utd give the money to griezemann who effectively gives it to athletico to buy himself out so if the money is put up athletico are powerless to stop him moving

Mitch Connor

James Ducker saying United don't want Greizmann anymore - looking for a number 9 rather than a 10 due to Ibrahimovic's injury.

Disappointing, if true.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

What happens is utd give the money to griezemann who effectively gives it to athletico to buy himself out so if the money is put up athletico are powerless to stop him moving

Yes. FFS. I've said that.

But that is DIFFERENT to United offering At.Madrid 100million and At.Madrid being powerless to say no.

As I have fcuking said - AG buying out his contract is the only way the move can be forced.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

James Ducker saying United don't want Greizmann anymore - looking for a number 9 rather than a 10 due to Ibrahimovic's injury.

Disappointing, if true.

We have mata and mkhitarayan for 10. Dont get much better than that in world football

beakerjoe

bangkok wrote: »

We have mata and mkhitarayan for 10. Dont get much better than that in world football

Ah it does. Nether have been firing on all cylliders since arriving. What football do you watch?

Hazard is much better than both

RockSalto

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ah it does. Nether have been firing on all cylliders since arriving. What football do you watch?

Hazard is much better than both

That's true, but these players (Mhkyi especiallly) are capable of so much more and the way we set up sometimes doesn't always help get the best out of them.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

James Ducker saying United don't want Greizmann anymore - looking for a number 9 rather than a 10 due to Ibrahimovic's injury.

Disappointing, if true.

Every Journalist reporting we have cooled interest now, AM might not be playing ball with accepting the fee instead of the release clause.

JaMarcusHustle

Simon Stone reporting it too.

To me, it looks like we're trying to save face as the Atletico transfer decision has scuppered our plans. Maybe I'm wrong, but hard to see how this only comes out today considering the extent of Zlatan's injury has been known for months.

Perhaps AG had a gentleman's agreement with Atletico that he'd only leave if they could replace him.

RobertKK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

James Ducker saying United don't want Greizmann anymore - looking for a number 9 rather than a 10 due to Ibrahimovic's injury.

Disappointing, if true.

Yeah, he says Griezmann remains a player of interest to the club but not at this time for the reasons you give.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

James Ducker saying United don't want Greizmann anymore - looking for a number 9 rather than a 10 due to Ibrahimovic's injury.

Disappointing, if true.

Reassuring if true, we should be targeting what we specifically need instead of going for the big name and then having to accommodate him.

DM_7

Timing certainly suggests its because of the transfer ban.

beakerjoe

RockSalto wrote: »

That's true, but these players (Mhkyi especiallly) are capable of so much more and the way we set up sometimes doesn't always help get the best out of them.

True, Mata and Mhkyi have played extremely well at times, but I wouldnt consider tehm teh very best world football has to offer consider they have under performered plenty of times for us.

Mitch Connor

I think we could do with a number 9 but needed Griezmann, for the role I envisaged (takings Mata's spot, basically) more. Felt we could give Martial/Rashford/Griezmann time centrally and it could work.

If we have cooled on Griezmann, whatever the reason, I am disappointed and a little worried. I think we needed his pace/movement in that role - United are far to static a side and saw him as a way of changing that in a way I can't see a central striker being able to do.

A worrying development, if it is true.

bangkok

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ah it does. Nether have been firing on all cylliders since arriving. What football do you watch?

Hazard is much better than both

Juan mata is class. Look at what he did at chelsea and lool at his stats since joining utd in a poor functioning team. Imagine we got the balance right with him in no10 role

GSPfan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think we could do with a number 9 but needed Griezmann, for the role I envisaged (takings Mata's spot, basically) more. Felt we could give Martial/Rashford/Griezmann time centrally and it could work.

If we have cooled on Griezmann, whatever the reason, I am disappointed and a little worried. I think we needed his pace/movement in that role - United are far to static a side and saw him as a way of changing that in a way I can't see a central striker being able to do.

A worrying development, if it is true.

Knee jerk reaction here. You said only a couple of days ago its way too early to be worried about transfers yet here you are worried.

You are getting worried over reports that conflict each other from one day to the next. If there is any truth in this latest rumour it could be United trying to look disinterested to get Atletico to accept a reasonable fee. We just don't know and to be honest its way too early to be starting the doom and gloom talk.

Lord TSC

DM_7 wrote: »

Timing certainly suggests its because of the transfer ban.

Yeah. Would imagine Griezz has opted to stay so as not to leave them in a lurch. Massively disappointing, but if true, at least we can move quickly on and not waste the summer on it

HigginsJ

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah. Would imagine Griezz has opted to stay so as not to leave them in a lurch. Massively disappointing, but if true, at least we can move quickly on and not waste the summer on it

Awwwww, I miss that Moyes summer

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah. Would imagine Griezz has opted to stay so as not to leave them in a lurch. Massively disappointing, but if true, at least we can move quickly on and not waste the summer on it

Clears the way for another whopper transfer deal somewhere else too.

Gareth Bale, come on down!

pjohnson

Zlatan is out of contract in 30 days we havent even sorted his situation yet. Griezmann is over and Perisic appears dead in the water. Not the most encouraging start.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think we could do with a number 9 but needed Griezmann, for the role I envisaged (takings Mata's spot, basically) more. Felt we could give Martial/Rashford/Griezmann time centrally and it could work.

If we have cooled on Griezmann, whatever the reason, I am disappointed and a little worried. I think we needed his pace/movement in that role - United are far to static a side and saw him as a way of changing that in a way I can't see a central striker being able to do.

A worrying development, if it is true.

Indeed, but as I said I'd imagine the club catered for this circumstance, and in reality I'd imagine it was probably already made aware to Jose and Woodward.

Considering the length this has been discussed, in terms of the transfers, I'd imagine all the scenarios were known ages ago.

And while yes it is disappointing, I'd prefer, and like, that the club have contingencies and swiftly move onto the next target and get that wrapped up.

This situation was always down to Griezemann, so the "cooling interest" stories might still be false. He either wanted to move this summer regardless, and it will happen, or Griezemann made some promises to the club based on the outcome of the ban.

And I don't think, I'd think poorly of him for being loyal to Athletico and staying on until things get back to normal.

Griezemann for me was really the "luxury" signing of this window for me. There is more important stuff to address. And if it does come not to pass, possible that it might bolster possibilities elsewhere. Why not throw that €100m and likely 250k a week at Kane

SteM

pjohnson wrote: »

Zlatan is out of contract in 30 days we havent even sorted his situation yet. Griezmann is over and Perisic appears dead in the water. Not the most encouraging start.

Jeez, it's the 1st of June ffs.

pjohnson

SteM wrote: »

Jeez, it's the 1st of June ffs.

True but that hasn't stopped Pep getting started on his squad for next year.

TheDoc

pjohnson wrote: »

Zlatan is out of contract in 30 days we havent even sorted his situation yet. Griezmann is over and Perisic appears dead in the water. Not the most encouraging start.

Most players with international setups.

While this is a tricky summer considering so many big clubs looking to strengthen, and likely looking at similar players, I don't think there is any reason to be "disappointed".

The window is not even open a week, and the last summer window gave me great confidence Woodward and his team have learned well, and if targets were confirmed two months ago it might be no real problem, just waiting for players to return from int duty to get deals completed.

Also possible that we are sitting waiting to see how the market develops. Always a consideration in a big summer splash. Typically the first big deals set the tone for the window, and it might mean overspending or whatever.

With no busy schedule in the summer of international tournaments, might mean less rush or panic and more meticulous discussions and due diligence.

Wouldn't be surprised for our business to be done in a relatively short time window, but I'd probably brace for some targets missed or upsets considering how mental it is going to get.

bangkok

Lads getting worried about no transfers done yet is fairly pathetic tbh. Its the 1st of june today

pjohnson

Perhaps Doc. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I like being done and duste and having our actual squad together for pre-season. I still remember that year (20007?) We had Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani all signed within first week or so. Then Tevez arrived near the end. No jouranlistic speculation crap we just got our squad together immediately.

We can wait till final day if that makes people happier.

SteM

pjohnson wrote: »

True but that hasn't stopped Pep getting started on his squad for next year.

Don't worry about other clubs.

The window has just opened and you're moaning about United not resigning an injured 35 year old that's reportedly on ?250k+ per week, not signing a man that seemingly wants to stay with Athletico for another season because of their transfer ban and not signing a player that hadn't been linked with United up until a week ago.

SteM

pjohnson wrote: »

Perhaps Doc. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I like being done and duste and having our actual squad together for pre-season. I still remember that year (20007?) We had Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani all signed within first week or so. Then Tevez arrived near the end. No jouranlistic speculation crap we just got our squad together immediately.

We can wait till final day if that makes people happier.

So the signings have to be done on the first day or the last day in your mind. You cant get get the right player at the right time?

Cookiemunster

pjohnson wrote: »

True but that hasn't stopped Pep getting started on his squad for next year.

Yet none of them will be in training until July when the window actually opens. Jose wants his targets in for pre season. That's a month away still.

Giggsy11

Disappointed with Griezmann news that we have cooled our interest but it makes sense for player. Either he is sticking with the club rather than spitting on them when they are banned to sign his replacement or Atletico wants whole sum upfront which is very big sum to pay.

TheDoc

pjohnson wrote: »

Perhaps Doc. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I like being done and duste and having our actual squad together for pre-season. I still remember that year (20007?) We had Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani all signed within first week or so. Then Tevez arrived near the end. No jouranlistic speculation crap we just got our squad together immediately.

We can wait till final day if that makes people happier.

Yeah but even 10 years loads has changed. Deals are much more complex, many more parties to the deal along with the fact no one is unearthing gems anymore.

We are pretty much fighting it out with most big clubs for players.

And I don't think we are the primary destination for many players anymore. Chelsea and their london location is a big draw, Man City with Guardiola is a great prospect for some people, then you have Bayern, Real, PSG and Barca that can pretty much guarantee trophies every season.

Most players and their agents play the longtime, to extract the maximum €€€ and clubs also holding out for bidding wars to drive up pricing.

I think it's extremely impressive if the club got their business done quickly. But I'd imagine we will get some deals done close together, and it seems evident Mourinho seems to have a method with the clubs he works for, to get deals done early. How I don't know but he has a pretty decent track record when the clubs involved are backing him.

For all the **** I give Jose the one thing I wouldn't question him on, or well would have ultimate faith, is his transfer activity and target acquisition. It's only ever been poor when the clubs involved think they know better or rail against him.

Lord TSC

IlL say this.

The timing between the announcement of the transfer ban, and the speed we got this briefing out makes me belief that United were prepared for this eventuality. I'd imagine that the short window between the two means Griezmann was upfront about this option early, so I'm hoping it's not coming as a surprise to the club. A disappointment, sure, but not a surprise.

Ducker saying we are monitoring Ronaldo, but my guess is that's just playing off the interview last night.

beakerjoe

One thing is that if Griezmann has choosen to stay and help Madrid, its very admirable and selfless.

It only makes me want him more though

pjohnson

Note to self mind peoples sensitivities they take offence ridiculously fast.

Pro. F

I've always thought goalkeepers are crazy undervalued. It's one of the most important positions on the pitch - probably joint second with CBs, behind strikers as the most important. And it seems like a position where it's very often hard to find quality. I can see no good reason why the fees for them are so low compared to outfielders.

bangkok

Di marzio did say a few days ago griezmann was 3rd on our list of strikers behind morata and mbappe

HigginsJ

Pro. F wrote: »

I've always thought goalkeepers are crazy undervalued. It's one of the most important positions on the pitch - probably joint second with CBs, behind strikers as the most important. And it seems like a position where it's very often hard to find quality. I can see no good reason why the fees for them are so low compared to outfielders.

I just think the difference between a "great" keeper and a "very good" one is a lot less than the difference between the top and next level strikers. There are probably 10-12 keepers that we could look to sign and you would be happy that they would be more than good enough to do a job for us, where as the striker pool we are shopping in is exceptionally shallow.

DM_7

bangkok wrote: »

Di marzio did say a few days ago griezmann was 3rd on our list of strikers behind morata and mbappe

Yesterday I think.

Still seems like an odd list as they are so differant and Mbappe in particular is similar to what United have already.

bucketybuck

Did I miss a few months or something, isn't it still just one week since our season ended? Isn't everybody in football chilling on a beach somewhere?

We could wait another month before making a move and still claim that we got our business done early, so never mind the twitter rubbish and calm the jets.

By the way, pep might be linked with dozens of players but I don't see any of their new players holding scarves at a press conference, do you?

Pro. F

HigginsJ wrote: »

I just think the difference between a "great" keeper and a "very good" one is a lot less than the difference between the top and next level strikers. There are probably 10-12 keepers that we could look to sign and you would be happy that they would be more than good enough to do a job for us, where as the striker pool we are shopping in is exceptionally shallow.

I very much doubt there'd be 10-12 'keepers we could sign who'd be good enough. I know that that is how it's commonly perceived, but it seems the opposite to me. I think people just worry unnecessarily about the quality of strikers and incorrectly assume that 'keepers are good enough. When you look at the top teams you rarely see them with strikers that aren't good enough, but it's more often the case that their 'keepers aren't of the required quality.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

I've always thought goalkeepers are crazy undervalued. It's one of the most important positions on the pitch - probably joint second with CBs, behind strikers as the most important. And it seems like a position where it's very often hard to find quality. I can see no good reason why the fees for them are so low compared to outfielders.

A lot of united fans would be happy to give romero a chance in goals if de gea left. Romero is not top quality. Yet the same fans woulnt be happy for rashford to be our no1 striker. Strikers and midfielders win games simple as that. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in football hence why they go for the most money.