Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

DARK-KNIGHT

what about alexander pato?

Lord TSC

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

what about alexander pato?

What about him?

DARK-KNIGHT

scrap that he is in china now no thanks...

DARK-KNIGHT

Lord TSC wrote: »

What about him?

I meant as a squad option. I see he has gone to china that says a lot more interested in money than playing competitively

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

No chance of signing harry kane and lukaku is chelsea bound.

AC Milan are in talks with chelsea for diego costa. Milan trying to buy all the players

Reports this morning is that Diego Costa wants to sign for Atletico even if he has to sit out till January..

Trigger

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I meant as a squad option. I see he has gone to china that says a lot more interested in money than playing competitively

Pato hasn't been relevant in a good few years now

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

Reports this morning is that Diego Costa wants to sign for Atletico even if he has to sit out till January..

Quote I read said he couldn't go 5 months without playing - so that puts At. Madrid as a poor option - unless chelsea would continue to play him as a player on loan from At. Madrid or while they wait to sell him to them in January.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Quote I read said he couldn't go 5 months without playing - so that puts At. Madrid as a poor option - unless chelsea would continue to play him as a player on loan from At. Madrid or while they wait to sell him to them in January.

Sports witness covered it on the Marca report linked below, kinda shows that all the journalists are engaging in a guessing game.

http://sportwitness.co.uk/striker-will-take-drastic-steps-get-chelsea-transfer-summer/

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think in an ideal world Mourinho would be getting Harry Kane in, he would be the perfect signing imo - but there is 0 chance of that.

I am not convinced he is THAT good. Yes scores lots in the league but does he do enough in other areas for a Jose gameplan?

bangkok

What costa wants and what he will get are 2 different things.

Chelsea will want him gone asap

Lord TSC

DM_7 wrote: »

I am not convinced he is THAT good. Yes scores lots in the league but does he do enough in other areas for a Jose gameplan?

Kane is a striker, and has hit 20+ goals in the PL three seasons in a row, nearly hit 30 this year, and hasn't even hit his prime yet. If he was Spanish, he'd be talked about as one of the best in the world. A striker's job is to "score lots", and he does it with ease.

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

I am not convinced he is THAT good. Yes scores lots in the league but does he do enough in other areas for a Jose gameplan?

One of the better forwards in the game, imo, at holding the ball up and bringing others into the game. His link play is fantastic - along with being a quality finisher and hard working. But a pointless discussion - as there is zero chance Spurs sell him, for anything anyone would bid for him.

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Kane is a striker, and has hit 20+ goals in the PL three seasons in a row, nearly hit 30 this year, and hasn't even hit his prime yet. If he was Spanish, he'd be talked about as one of the best in the world. A striker's job is to "score lots", and he does it with ease.

Specific for Jose though.

I would not question his ability to score. He is brilliant.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Kane is a striker, and has hit 20+ goals in the PL three seasons in a row, nearly hit 30 this year, and hasn't even hit his prime yet. If he was Spanish, he'd be talked about as one of the best in the world. A striker's job is to "score lots", and he does it with ease.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

One of the better forwards in the game, imo, at holding the ball up and bringing others into the game. His link play is fantastic - along with being a quality finisher and hard working. But a pointless discussion - as there is zero chance Spurs sell him, for anything anyone would bid for him.

All of this is true, yet I still don't think we should spend ?150m+ plus on him.

I think there is a factor of diminishing returns from a purchase of that value, say Kane at ?150m gets us 30 goals next season, is it worth that premium when a successful striker at ?50/60 million would likely get us 20/25 goals anyway?

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

All of this is true, yet I still don't think we should spend ?150m+ plus on him.

I think there is a factor of diminishing returns from a purchase of that value, say Kane at ?150m gets us 30 goals next season, is it worth that premium when a successful striker at ?50/60 million would likely get us 20/25 goals anyway?

possibly not, probably not - as I said, I don't think Spurs would sell for any price that someone would be willing to pay for him.

I also think he is quite happy at Spurs and a move to United wouldn't be one he would go on strike over (like Bale did with Madrid).

I was simply saying in an perfect world I think Kane is the striker Jose would want at United.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

All of this is true, yet I still don't think we should spend ?150m+ plus on him.

I think there is a factor of diminishing returns from a purchase of that value, say Kane at ?150m gets us 30 goals next season, is it worth that premium when a successful striker at ?50/60 million would likely get us 20/25 goals anyway?

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think he's ungettable, and the amount needed would be a waste in the terms you outlined. I wasn't saying I think we should try; would be a waste of time, and a waste of resources, as you said.

Mitch Connor

I hope if we do sign Morata that it will be done soon - or if we aren't that we will know that soon too and can move on. Even if we do get him, I think we would still need another attacking signing - I really think we need to sign a pacey attacking threat on the right side (again, where I thought Greizmann would play). Though maybe Mkhitaryan will find his top form, consistently, and be a properly viable option there.

On Morata, his latest quotes aren't promising - seems determined to stay at Madrid - but then until a bid is accepted he would be an idiot to say otherwise.

bangkok

DM_7 wrote: »

I am not convinced he is THAT good. Yes scores lots in the league but does he do enough in other areas for a Jose gameplan?

Kane is class. He scores goals, thats what you want your striker to do.

What do you think joses gameplan is?

If kane doesnt fit what you think it is then no striker in the world does.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Even if we do get him, I think we would still need another attacking signing

I really do hope we sign two strikers this window, and I would consider it a serious misstep if we don't.

Zlatan and Rooney are effectively done as far as I am concerned, meaning our striking department are two unproven kids. Kids with potential, but unproven all the same and we cannot expect a title challenge relying on them.

I don't mean attackers like Mikhitaryan, we badly need two goalscoring strikers.

yabadabado

bucketybuck wrote: »

I really do hope we sign two strikers this window, and I would consider it a serious misstep if we don't.

Zlatan and Rooney are effectively done as far as I am concerned, meaning our striking department are two unproven kids. Kids with potential, but unproven all the same and we cannot expect a title challenge relying on them.

I don't mean attackers like Mikhitaryan, we badly need two goalscoring strikers.

I think we are ok with 3 , new CF Rashford and Martial.Jose will only one up top.
A new CF and a wide forward is what I think is most needed from an attacking point this summer.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

I really do hope we sign two strikers this window, and I would consider it a serious misstep if we don't.

Zlatan and Rooney are effectively done as far as I am concerned, meaning our striking department are two unproven kids. Kids with potential, but unproven all the same and we cannot expect a title challenge relying on them.

I don't mean attackers like Mikhitaryan, we badly need two goalscoring strikers.

I disagree, in terms of signing two 'strikers'. I can't see us playing two up top - so two strikers is overkill - when we would have (for example) Morata, Rashford and Martial who could play through the middle. Someone like Griezmann would have been perfect imo - can oplay from the wing, off a leading striker or can be played in the point position if needed, as he has amply proven. I'm not sure what player would be similar to Greizmann that we could get in terms of position/flexibility (we aren't signing Sanchez).

I want more of a wing forward (like Griezman) rather than an attacking midfielder (Mata, Mkhitaryan) - someone like Robben was in the first iteration of Jose's chelsea.

FutureGuy

We need a Harry Kane-type far more than a Costa. Costa doesn't single-handedly win games. We need someone who will score two in a 3-1 win where we play utter sh!te.

Mitch Connor

FutureGuy wrote: »

We need a Harry Kane-type far more than a Costa. Costa doesn't single-handedly win games. We need someone who will score two in a 3-1 win where we play utter sh!te.

Surely we have to plan on not being utter sh1te though. We have to plan for Pogba hitting 10+, Rashford hitting 20+ in all comps, same for Martial. Mata hitting maybe 10, Mkhitaryan the same - whatever striker and other attacking player coming up with 25+ and 20 or so respectively.

I'm not saying they all will hit those targets - but surely Jose has to be planning (tactically and optimism in terms of form) on players being better in front of goal than the season gone.

If we need someone like you say.... we aren't getting them. the players simply aren't available at that level. We aren't getting Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi (or Kane, Lewandowsk, who else would even be on that level? Aguero? Sanchez?)

IMO it was only towards the end of the season that Jose retreated tactically (bar big games early season) and I think that was in response to the players being unable to turn the chances that were being created into goals - so he had to set up to concede none and hope we could bundle one in at the other end.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I disagree, in terms of signing two 'strikers'. I can't see us playing two up top - so two strikers is overkill - when we would have (for example) Morata, Rashford and Martial who could play through the middle. Someone like Griezmann would have been perfect imo - can oplay from the wing, off a leading striker or can be played in the point position if needed, as he has amply proven. I'm not sure what player would be similar to Greizmann that we could get in terms of position/flexibility (we aren't signing Sanchez).

I want more of a wing forward (like Griezman) rather than an attacking midfielder (Mata, Mkhitaryan) - someone like Robben was in the first iteration of Jose's chelsea.

I think we should try and sign dembele from dortmund, young, fast, exciting can play on the wing or upfront.

Cantona's Collars

New watering hole to replace Sam Platts located.Saw that minibuses for £1 will be laid on for those who can't make the 10 minute walk to the ground.

https://m.facebook.com/TheTollgateAtManchesterUnited/

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

I think we should try and sign dembele from dortmund, young, fast, exciting can play on the wing or upfront.

Yep - he'd a be a good one, but don't see it as a likely transfer this summer. He'll cost massive money if/when he does leave. Or be a free transfer to Bayern at the end of his contract.

Cantona's Collars

Morata to make a decision on his future in the coming days.

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/872773091428110336

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

I think we should try and sign dembele from dortmund, young, fast, exciting can play on the wing or upfront.

Barca were apparently after him and were quoted a massive figure of €90m or so.

I wonder if Griezmann will still play a role in what we do this window; if he has signalled to us that he'll happily move in the winter or next summer, once the transfer ban is lifted. In which case, will Jose plan around getting him next year.

I wouldn't be shocked if we go after someone like James as someone to score goals from behind the striker, rather than a back up striker. If we're playing one up front, maybe Jose will be happy with Morata and Rashford as #1 and #2, and invest in goal scoring elsewhere in the squad (as opposed to splash 30 or 40m on another back up striker).

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

Morata to make a decision on his future in the coming days.

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/872773091428110336

To add to this:

https://twitter.com/Hayles_101/status/872775502309842944

DM_7

bangkok wrote: »

Kane is class. He scores goals, thats what you want your striker to do.

What do you think joses gameplan is?

If kane doesnt fit what you think it is then no striker in the world does.

I do not get why you would ask what I think Jose's gameplan is if you are going to tell me no striker will fit it (if Kane does not). That implies you already know my answer.


Remember my post was in reply to Mitch saying he thought Kane would be an ideal world signing for Jose.

I am not convinced that he is that good to say he is an ideal world signing. For example I dont think he is a dominant physical force like Costa, Drogba, Milito or Ibra.

I am not trying to crticise Kane. He would be a great signing for almost any side but the type of player Jose would have to change his most successful ways to accomodate. There is nothing wrong with changing that either. Just not ideal for Jose.

There is a viable argument that United need to just get the best players they can.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I disagree, in terms of signing two 'strikers'. I can't see us playing two up top - so two strikers is overkill - when we would have (for example) Morata, Rashford and Martial who could play through the middle.

My problem is this, just look at how we did this season with effectively only one striker backed up by Martial and Rashford, ultimately it cost us and cost us bad and its vital we don't end up in the same situation again.

I'm not talking two superstar signings, but when we do get that first choice striker we absolutely need to go out and get another option, there will be plenty of games to around and injuries to cover, especially when the likes of Rashford will get gametime playing wide anyway.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

My problem is this, just look at how we did this season with effectively only one striker backed up by Martial and Rashford, ultimately it cost us and cost us bad and its vital we don't end up in the same situation again.

I'm not talking two superstar signings, but when we do get that first choice striker we absolutely need to go out and get another option, there will be plenty of games to around and injuries to cover, especially when the likes of Rashford will get gametime playing wide anyway.

Either we trust Martial and Rashford to improve and thus not need to sign a second striker (assuming one signed) or we sell them and buy other strikers. I do think we need another attacker, in the Greizmann style, but 2 strikers (specifically) is overkill unless the club intend to show no faith in Rashford/Martial

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

I do not get why you would ask what I think Jose's gameplan is if you are going to tell me no striker will fit it (if Kane does not). That implies you already know my answer.


Remember my post was in reply to Mitch saying he thought Kane would be an ideal world signing for Jose.

I am not convinced that he is that good to say he is an ideal world signing. For example I dont think he is a dominant physical force like Costa, Drogba, Milito or Ibra.

I am not trying to crticise Kane. He would be a great signing for almost any side but the type of player Jose would have to change his most successful ways to accomodate. There is nothing wrong with changing that either. Just not ideal for Jose.

There is a viable argument that United need to just get the best players they can.

What striker around at the moment would fit the mould you see for a Jose striker? Drogba isn't, Milito (no ide) and Ibra is already here. Maybe costa but looks like he wants to go back to Spain.

I don't see another striker around at the moment that would be a better fit than Kane. Maybe Belotti (from what I have heard) but really only had his breakthough season, might Micheal Rickets it next season. Maybe Morata - cheaper and kinda similar to Kane, but I think Kane is better.

Jayop

On strikers, do we need 4 any more? I know that was always the old conventional wisdom but that was when you played 2 up top.

bangkok

DM_7 wrote: »

I do not get why you would ask what I think Jose's gameplan is if you are going to tell me no striker will fit it (if Kane does not). That implies you already know my answer.


Remember my post was in reply to Mitch saying he thought Kane would be an ideal world signing for Jose.

I am not convinced that he is that good to say he is an ideal world signing. For example I dont think he is a dominant physical force like Costa, Drogba, Milito or Ibra.

I am not trying to crticise Kane. He would be a great signing for almost any side but the type of player Jose would have to change his most successful ways to accomodate. There is nothing wrong with changing that either. Just not ideal for Jose.

There is a viable argument that United need to just get the best players they can.

I presume mitch meant ideal as in, young, english, knows the premier league, weakens spurs position and strenghtens ours..

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

I presume mitch meant ideal as in, young, english, knows the premier league, weakens spurs position and strenghtens ours..

I meant if Jose had his pick of strikers in football at the moment he would go for Kane imo. Ticks the most boxes from strikers around. Maybe Lewandowski over him?

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I meant if Jose had his pick of strikers in football at the moment he would go for Kane imo. Ticks the most boxes from strikers around. Maybe Lewandowski over him?

Excluding ronaldo, yes kane would be my no1.

StringerBell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I hope if we do sign Morata that it will be done soon - or if we aren't that we will know that soon too and can move on. Even if we do get him, I think we would still need another attacking signing - I really think we need to sign a pacey attacking threat on the right side (again, where I thought Greizmann would play). Though maybe Mkhitaryan will find his top form, consistently, and be a properly viable option there.

On Morata, his latest quotes aren't promising - seems determined to stay at Madrid - but then until a bid is accepted he would be an idiot to say otherwise.

He has never made any secret of his preferred team to play for, that is one of the concerns that stick out to me.

raze_them_all_

StringerBell wrote: »

He has never made any secret of his preferred team to play for, that is one of the concerns that stick out to me.

why would anyone want to leave, all they do is win

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Either we trust Martial and Rashford to improve and thus not need to sign a second striker (assuming one signed) or we sell them and buy other strikers. I do think we need another attacker, in the Greizmann style, but 2 strikers (specifically) is overkill unless the club intend to show no faith in Rashford/Martial

Or we take a step back and put their current level of ability into some perspective. I get that everybody loves the pair of them but do we want to challenge for titles next season or not? If we do, then we need to stop putting all our faith into potential because its just going to end up hanging us.

9 league goals in 57 appearances between the pair of them this season, a figure that should improve but just as easily might not if Rashford hits second season syndrome and Martial continues his form of the last 18 months. Giving them the opportunity to improve is one thing, putting all our eggs in that basket is just insane.

People talk of four strikers like its four senior strikers as it was in 1999. Its not, in fact its no different to the four strikers we started this season with, two senior players backed up by two exciting youngsters. Now we have lost those two senior strikers and people don't want to replace both of them, it doesn't make sense. How many times did we hear people lament the sale of Hernandez this season and how an option like him would have made a huge difference? And yet now we have the chance we shouldn't sign an option like that?

If we sign one striker like Morata and he ends up missing for any period of time then god help Mourinho because a repeat of this seasons goalscoring problems will cost him his job. Does he really want to risk it on the hope that Martial finally comes out of his funk? Damn sure I wouldn't.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Personally I think one superstar striker, and a veteran / cheaper option similar to that striker (i.e. different to Martial and Rashford) is the way to go. Llorente was mentioned a few posts back, someone like that would be perfect as backup.

In terms of adding goals elsewhere, I'm amazed someone like Marek Hamsik is so rarely linked with top teams - though with Pogba a guaranteed starter, he's probably not what we need atm.

Lord TSC

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Personally I think one superstar striker, and a veteran / cheaper option similar to that striker (i.e. different to Martial and Rashford) is the way to go. Llorente was mentioned a few posts back, someone like that would be perfect as backup.

In terms of adding goals elsewhere, I'm amazed someone like Marek Hamsik is so rarely linked with top teams - though with Pogba a guaranteed starter, he's probably not what we need atm.

Afaik, Hamsik loves Napoli and has no intentions of ever moving. Think he gave interviews last week where he said it's not a football team for him, it's a family he loves.

StringerBell

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

why would anyone want to leave, all they do is win

To play more games, which is why he will ultimately leave again imo, but same as last time he left he made no bones about which club he want to be at. After the CL final he was asked about next season, he said he wants to stay at Madrid but it may not be up to him, his disappointment was clear.

It may be no problem, he may take it on the chin and put in great performances for his next team or he may take a bit of time sulking/getting over it.

For a long time winning was not all Madrid did either They have had barren seasons also. The concern for me comes from, right now in the situation we are in we need to be getting players in who really want to be at the club, who will give 100% to the cause.

If Mourinho brings him in I trust that he is sure that he will get that from Morata, just a concern. We don't need anyone half hearted or not giving it his all next season, can't afford it.

HigginsJ

bucketybuck wrote: »

Or we take a step back and put their current level of ability into some perspective. I get that everybody loves the pair of them but do we want to challenge for titles next season or not? If we do, then we need to stop putting all our faith into potential because its just going to end up hanging us.

9 league goals in 57 appearances between the pair of them this season, a figure that should improve but just as easily might not if Rashford hits second season syndrome and Martial continues his form of the last 18 months. Giving them the opportunity to improve is one thing, putting all our eggs in that basket is just insane.

People talk of four strikers like its four senior strikers as it was in 1999. Its not, in fact its no different to the four strikers we started this season with, two senior players backed up by two exciting youngsters. Now we have lost those two senior strikers and people don't want to replace both of them, it doesn't make sense. How many times did we hear people lament the sale of Hernandez this season and how an option like him would have made a huge difference? And yet now we have the chance we shouldn't sign an option like that?

If we sign one striker like Morata and he ends up missing for any period of time then god help Mourinho because a repeat of this seasons goalscoring problems will cost him his job. Does he really want to risk it on the hope that Martial finally comes out of his funk? Damn sure I wouldn't.

I couldn't agree with you more. We do need 2 stikers, we are woefully short up front. The 2nd guy doesn't need to be a €50 million player, in fact looking for someone with good PL experience and a decent record would be no harm. Someone like Fernando Llorente would be ideal as that 2nd guy, even Negredo would not be the worst option.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Or we take a step back and put their current level of ability into some perspective. I get that everybody loves the pair of them but do we want to challenge for titles next season or not? If we do, then we need to stop putting all our faith into potential because its just going to end up hanging us.

9 league goals in 57 appearances between the pair of them this season, a figure that should improve but just as easily might not if Rashford hits second season syndrome and Martial continues his form of the last 18 months. Giving them the opportunity to improve is one thing, putting all our eggs in that basket is just insane.

People talk of four strikers like its four senior strikers as it was in 1999. Its not, in fact its no different to the four strikers we started this season with, two senior players backed up by two exciting youngsters. Now we have lost those two senior strikers and people don't want to replace both of them, it doesn't make sense. How many times did we hear people lament the sale of Hernandez this season and how an option like him would have made a huge difference? And yet now we have the chance we shouldn't sign an option like that?

If we sign one striker like Morata and he ends up missing for any period of time then god help Mourinho because a repeat of this seasons goalscoring problems will cost him his job. Does he really want to risk it on the hope that Martial finally comes out of his funk? Damn sure I wouldn't.

Rooney was absolutely no use last season, and rarely played as a striker when he did play - so we don't need a striker to replace him.

In an ideal world I would sign Kane and Greizmann - central striker and an attacking threat to play off him, who could also play up front if needed.

My point is I wouldn't be signing a second central striker - I would be looking to sign someone who can play off the striker from the wing (where Mata currently plays) and can add pace and goals to the side; who could also play through the centre if required.

I'm not saying Morata (or whomever we get) should be the only attacking signing - i'm just saying i don't think the other attacking signing needs to be ore should be a central striker. In fact, my argument is we need too add goals to the side beyond a central striker and a backup/sub for them. I argue we need to add a first choice/first team goal scorer along with a top class striker.

Greizmann would have been the best signing imo.

Maybe Woody goes absolutely mental and gets us Bale, or Neymar, along with Morata - and that would be perfect imo. I don't think we would also need to sign Hernandez back or something like that.

Lord TSC

Internationals are over now, yeah?

In all the discussions of who is coming in, I thought we'd have seen more rumours of departures by now too...

Rayne Wooney

I think we need two forward players, Morata just doesn't seem enough after last season.

We cant put much faith in Zlatan to repeat what he did, teams going for the league will have a 20 goal striker be it Kane, Lukaku, Aguero, then you need another player to chip in with 15+ goals and I'm struggling to see who these players are in our squad.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Maybe Woody goes absolutely mental and gets us Bale, or Neymar, along with Morata - and that would be perfect imo. I don't think we would also need to sign Hernandez back or something like that.

Would you worry about Bale and his injury record?

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Would you worry about Bale and his injury record?

Absolutely.

GSPfan

Id argue we don't need any more strikers after Morata. We need more midfielders and wingers.

If we play one up top we have Rashford, Martial, Morata.

If we play two up top in a 352 then we have Rashford, Martial, Morata, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Fellaini to play as a pair or one off the other.

I think we need more out and out wide players if we go with the same formation as last season and maybe two central midfielders. I honestly think we need a striker, a wide right player, two central midfielders, and a centre half. Thats before we sell anyone assuming Zlatan is already gone.

I really think we start next season in a 352. Just have a feeling.