Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Greizmann noooo

JaMarcusHustle

Bild are reporting that we're looking at Sokratis now. Is he any good for Dortmund?

Lord TSC

GSPfan wrote: »

Depending on who we buy this Summer we may not be interested in Griezmann next Summer.

He's a top five player in the world imo. No way we aren't in for him again. If anything, the release clause staying the same screams the deal will be done quickly when he does become available.

jayo26

I think it's damn positive that he has signed a new contract tract with the same buy out clause. It's so obvious he was been loyal to them and they are looking after him in return.

And same as TSC above no matter who we bring in i couldnt see us not wanting him next summer if he is available.

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

He's a top five player in the world imo. No way we aren't in for him again. If anything, the release clause staying the same screams the deal will be done quickly when he does become available.

Is he top 5 though? Like If I just think of Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Hazard, Sanchez, I would probably rate them higher.

I'm not saying he's crap and we'd be lucky to have him but I just think we may have moved on.

Edit: Just to clarify, I only think that because the release fee is in the world record range.

Liam O

GSPfan wrote: »

Is he top 5 though? Like If I just think of Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Hazard, Sanchez, I would probably rate them higher.

I'm not saying he's crap and we'd be lucky to have him but I just think we may have moved on.

Edit: Just to clarify, I only think that because the release fee is in the world record range.

He's at the level of anyone on that list bar Messi and Ronaldo imo. Splitting hairs though. They all would have similar market values too.

Thepoet85

Been watching a lot of Utd videos on YouTube on the off season and just done watching all of Rooney's goals for us.

I'm amazed at the amount of headers he scored for us, it wasn't something I'd have thought he was prolific at.

And also, I'll definitely miss him when he goes. He's clearly been past it the last few years, but my god he was awesome in his prime

Trigger

GSPfan wrote: »

Is he top 5 though? Like If I just think of Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Hazard, Sanchez, I would probably rate them higher.

I'm not saying he's crap and we'd be lucky to have him but I just think we may have moved on.

Edit: Just to clarify, I only think that because the release fee is in the world record range.

With the release fee not going up, it's still shy of world record but it's going to look a bargain next summer

Cantona's Collars

Smalling has changed agents,usually a sign of a player on the move.
Speaking of players on the move, Arsenal have said Sanchez will not be sold to an English club.

bassy

zerks wrote: »

Smalling has changed agents,usually a sign of a player on the move.
Speaking of players on the move, Arsenal have said Sanchez will not be sold to an English club.

looks like sanchez wants out no surprise there,arsenal are a club that can never hold on to top class players and the world knows why.wouldnt you think arsenal would know to

GSPfan

Re: Griezmann

Surprised no one has accused him of using us to get a bew contract. We all assume the transfer ban changed his mind but I'm not too sure. I think it just made his mind up.

Liam McPoyle

GSPfan wrote: »

Re: Griezmann

Surprised no one has accused him of using us to get a bew contract. We all assume the transfer ban changed his mind but I'm not too sure. I think it just made his mind up.

While we have been used by many players to get better deals with their clubs this one strikes me as being a little different.

If they are giving him more money then he is obviously highly rated by them.

When a player in Spain gets a new deal then it invariably comes with an increase in the release fee.

If there is an increase in wages but the release fee stays the same then the argument he used us to get more money doesn't really add up imo.

GSPfan

Rod Munch wrote: »

If there is an increase in wages but the release fee stays the same then the argument he used us to get more money doesn't really add up imo.

Surely if he has got a wage rise but maintained his release fee he has basically got the perfect deal no? So you could accuse him of playing both United and Atletico perfectly.

I don't think he used us myself I'm just surprised Griezmann flirts with leaving a club he loves but does a u turn and gets a new contract and he is getting all the love for being so loyal.
But lets say a Manchester United player did that, would we be so forgiving? I can think of one example where one of our players did similar and is vilified by many to this day. I won't say his name.

Lord TSC

GSPfan wrote: »

Surely if he has got a wage rise but maintained his release fee he has basically got the perfect deal no? So you could accuse him of playing both United and Atletico perfectly.

I don't think he used us myself I'm just surprised Griezmann flirts with leaving a club he loves but does a u turn and gets a new contract and he is getting all the love for being so loyal.
But lets say a Manchester United player did that, would we be so forgiving? I can think of one example where one of our players did similar and is vilified by many to this day. I won't say his name.

I get why United fans are very cynical about this sort of thing nowadays, but I really think you are reading way, way too much into it.

The timing of his announcing he was staying with Atletico coincides perfectly with the transfer ban being put in place. I don't even think there needs to be reading between the lines in this one; he was set to move, the ban came down and he opted not to leave his club in a disaster zone without him. The new contract is likely just putting him closer to wages he would have been on had he moved. I have zero doubts that if the transfer ban had not have happened, he would have been a United player by now, and zero doubts that if the release clause has remained the same, it's because he has been promised a move either at Xmas or in Summer, depending on what suits him and us.

Liam McPoyle

GSPfan wrote: »

Surely if he has got a wage rise but maintained his release fee he has basically got the perfect deal no? So you could accuse him of playing both United and Atletico perfectly.

I don't think he used us myself I'm just surprised Griezmann flirts with leaving a club he loves but does a u turn and gets a new contract and he is getting all the love for being so loyal.
But lets say a Manchester United player did that, would we be so forgiving? I can think of one example where one of our players did similar and is vilified by many to this day. I won't say his name.

I don't think Rooney and Griezmann are comparable tbh, assuming it's Rooney you are talking about.

jayo26

Luke shaw and Ashley Young have returned to training/rehabilitation this week already.

Last time Shaw started this early he started the season superbly so hopefully we get a similar scenario again just minus the injury.

Jayop

I see sport witness quoting Spanish press who say Morata will be getting €480k a week including image rights.

Bloody mad Ted.

Claude Burgundy

And the bid is in

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10914072/alvaro-moratas-agent-claims-manchester-united-have-made-an-important-offer

ElChe32

Jayop wrote: »

I see sport witness quoting Spanish press who say Morata will be getting €480k a week including image rights.

Bloody mad Ted.

That's insane, and would hope untrue!

bangkok

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Been watching a lot of Utd videos on YouTube on the off season and just done watching all of Rooney's goals for us.

I'm amazed at the amount of headers he scored for us, it wasn't something I'd have thought he was prolific at.

And also, I'll definitely miss him when he goes. He's clearly been past it the last few years, but my god he was awesome in his prime

Technically one of the most gifted english players of all time

Cantona's Collars

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

And the bid is in

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10914072/alvaro-moratas-agent-claims-manchester-united-have-made-an-important-offer

More stuff from Spain, deal to be concluded within 24-48 hours.Fee between €70-€80 million.

http://cadenaser.com/programa/2017/06/13/el_larguero/1497334967_339537.html

Claude Burgundy

If Morata and Fabihno both sign it will be jose bringing more height to the club. Both are 6 2 and its something we need.

Trigger

Jayop wrote: »

I see sport witness quoting Spanish press who say Morata will be getting €480k a week including image rights.

Bloody mad Ted.

That's Marca spouting bull**** to justify his sale.. after he goes you will see loads of stuff come out from them about how his agent was demanding a pay rise or such, and Real refused to pay him so they sold him on. Then you will see that Zidane didn't want him anyways.

It's how you know the deal will go thru, when their propaganda starts

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

More stuff from Spain, deal to be concluded within 24-48 hours.Fee between €70-€80 million.

http://cadenaser.com/programa/2017/06/13/el_larguero/1497334967_339537.html

Cadena Ser are one of the more reliable ones

Leroy42

Where would people rank Morata in terms of world class forwards. Has he not been getting game time because of Benzema or Ronaldo taking a more forward position?

He needs to be landing 20+ goals from the off to replace Zlatan. Would he be a more mobile sticker.

(Yes I have seen him, just looking for others people opinions before anyone tells me to google/youtube/Opta)

JaMarcusHustle

I would say there are a long list of forwards that are better than him currently, but I imagine a big part of his fee is the fact that he's only 24.

Mitch Connor

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I would say there are a long list of forwards that are better than him currently, but I imagine a big part of his fee is the fact that he's only 24.

Would take a lot more money to get bids accepted for Kane, Suarez, Ronaldo, Benzema, Lewandowski, Messi, Neymar.

Its massive money in compsarison to what players have gone for before now, but transfer fees have gone insane in the last year or so - you just can't compare a fee paid this summer with ones paid previously, imo.

RobertKK

I say United had an agreement with Griezmann that if Atletico had their transfer ban upheld, he would stay till the following year, then move, and Griezmann did the new contract as a top up on his wages that he would lose by doing that, while keeping the release clause at the same price.
He will most likely be a United player in the next 12 months or so is my guess.

mickmackey1

RobertKK wrote: »

I say United had an agreement with Griezmann that if Atletico had their transfer ban upheld, he would stay till the following year, then move, and Griezmann did the new contract as a top up on his wages that he would lose by doing that, while keeping the release clause at the same price.
He will most likely be a United player in the next 12 months or so is my guess.

He'll be pushing 28 by then, will probably have seen the best of him.

RobertKK

mickmackey1 wrote: »

He'll be pushing 28 by then, will probably have seen the best of him.

Why are we pursuing Perisic if that is the case?

BenK

mickmackey1 wrote: »

He'll be pushing 28 by then, will probably have seen the best of him.

He'll be 27 according to Wikipedia.

Cantona's Collars

James Robson (MEN) saying Fabinho isn't on Jose's list.

https://twitter.com/JamesRobsonMEN/status/874591865714216960

https://t.co/Xulu8yqiMs

jayo26

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I would say there are a long list of forwards that are better than him currently, but I imagine a big part of his fee is the fact that he's only 24.

There are a lot of forwards ahead of him but as you say age wise he has plenty of years in front of him in front of him. He is only 24 and there are not many young forwards out there under 25 scoring goals and available and very few have a goal record as good as his.

jayo26

zerks wrote: »

James Robson (MEN) saying Fabinho isn't on Jose's list.

https://twitter.com/JamesRobsonMEN/status/874591865714216960

https://t.co/Xulu8yqiMs

Didn't like him anyway he is too tall.

GSPfan

Rod Munch wrote: »

I don't think Rooney and Griezmann are comparable tbh, assuming it's Rooney you are talking about.

Why? Because it doesn't suit peoples opinion?

duffman13

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/manchester-united/360/blog/post/3142520/ice-man-victor-lindelof-is-highly-regarded-as-he-prepares-to-join-manchester-united

Decent read on lindelof, seems grounded. Similar background to Bailly in that they weren't well known before a break out season. Looked solid in the France Sweden game

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

The timing of his announcing he was staying with Atletico coincides perfectly with the transfer ban being put in place. I don't even think there needs to be reading between the lines in this one; he was set to move, the ban came down and he opted not to leave his club in a disaster zone without him. The new contract is likely just putting him closer to wages he would have been on had he moved. I have zero doubts that if the transfer ban had not have happened, he would have been a United player by now, and zero doubts that if the release clause has remained the same, it's because he has been promised a move either at Xmas or in Summer, depending on what suits him and us.

See I can easily read it differently. He wanted a better contract from Atletico so he used Uniteds interest in him to negotiate. Atletico were only willing to go so far until the transfer ban and once they got banned they agreed to give him a big pay rise as otherwise they could have been up the creak without a paddle.

Again, I'm not saying that is the case but I could easily argue that and no one can prove me wrong because thats what I choose to believe.

My point is that it never seems like one rule fits all. The benefit of doubt is given on personal preference and in this case Griezmann gets the benefit.

Jayop

GSPfan wrote: »

Why? Because it doesn't suit peoples opinion?

Bingo. Making giant leaps that he's now sure to come to United next season and he's being loyal by doing this.

From what we can see it's no different at all to what Rooney did. In fact can you imagine if Rooneys brother was OK twitter the whole time like the other bucks is?

Lord TSC

GSPfan wrote: »

Why? Because it doesn't suit peoples opinion?

Jayop wrote: »

Bingo. Making giant leaps that he's now sure to come to United next season and he's being loyal by doing this.

From what we can see it's no different at all to what Rooney did. In fact can you imagine if Rooneys brother was OK twitter the whole time like the other bucks is?

Rooney was offered more money, so he stayed.

Griezmann stayed, so was offered more money.

The two situations are different.

dave_o_brien

Facts of Griezmann transfer:

Utd wanted AG.
Atletico did not sell in advance of a transfer ban.
AG got a new contract.

Scenario 1:
AG wanted to move to Utd, but did not out of a stated loyalty to Atletico. Assume the loyalty is true. 1 no. assumptions.

Scenario 2:
AG wanted to move to Utd, but Atletico blocked move for fear of not being able to sign new players to replace AG, and so offered an improved contract to keep him put. Assume Atletico frustrated transfer process; assume contract is improved. 2 no. assumptions.

Scenario 3:
AG was open to move, but wished to remain loyal to Atletico in event of transfer ban. Negotiated improved contract to tie himself over until ban lifted, at which point both parties will agree to amicable divorce. Assume loyalty; assume agreed contract mirroring Utd's offering; assume agreement for future separation. 3 no. assumptions.

Scenario 4:
AG used Utd as bargaining tool in contract negotiation. Assume AG manipulated Utd interest with no intention of leaving. 1 no. assumptions.

The application of Occam's Razor suggests Scenario 1 or 4 are the most likely. I would be of the opinion that Scenario 1 assumes AG would be open to playing for Utd which is belieavable as he appears to be a Utd fan, and Scenario 4 potentially involves an assumption that AG is also a manipulative character, which is unclear from what we know about him as the public. With that in mind, I would lean towards scenario 1 as being the least unlikely assumption.

beakerjoe

Jayop wrote: »

Bingo. Making giant leaps that he's now sure to come to United next season and he's being loyal by doing this.

From what we can see it's no different at all to what Rooney did. In fact can you imagine if Rooneys brother was OK twitter the whole time like the other bucks is?

I like to think, and Im probably being naive, but he would earn a truck load more money by joining United (his supported club). All signs point to him just being a loyal player and being rewarded by his club for that rather than trying to get a big contract out of them. Sure if he wanted big bucks, he could have tried to force a move to United.

But you are correct, no proof if he just did a Rooney. Its just my theory based on what I read.

Liam McPoyle

GSPfan wrote: »

Why? Because it doesn't suit peoples opinion?

Rooney openly courted City and at least twice asked for a move away from the club. That would be the equivalent of AG fluttering his eyelashes at Real.

There was some mild flirtation from Griezmanns camp (his brother mainly) towards us but other than that it's apples and oranges.

Of course it's all speculation as none of us actually know what Greizmanns MO was, he could well have been playing us and Atleti but based on what's been reported it doesn't appear that way.

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

Rooney was offered more money, so he stayed.

Griezmann stayed, so was offered more money.

The two situations are different.

Ha ha ha ha. Now you're just being silly.

VW 1

Lord TSC wrote:

The two situations are different.

Rooney also wanted to go to a domestic rival, whether it was Chelsea or City. He publicly questioned the club's ambition.

Griezmann has been a model professional and any talks have not been in the media they've been in-house.

Even if AG was pushing for a move behind the scenes, he has handled the situation very well and gone about it in the right way.

beakerjoe

GSPfan wrote: »

Ha ha ha ha. Now you're just being silly.

They are two different situations, similar but different.

GSPfan

Rod Munch wrote: »

Rooney openly courted City and at least twice asked for a move away from the club. That would be the equivalent of AG fluttering his eyelashes at Real.

There was some mild flirtation from Griezmanns camp (his brother mainly) towards us but other than that it's apples and oranges.

Of course it's all speculation as none of us actually know what Greizmanns MO was, he could well have been playing us and Atleti but based on what's been reported it doesn't appear that way.

There is barely a difference. Certainly not enough to rule out a comparison.

I think there is no fundamental proof of a difference but we have decided as people to put our own personal slant on it to suit our opinion of them.

If people think Griezmann comes to us next year because he was being loyal and we still want him then that may happen. But don't rule out United being pissed off at him for playing us and wasting our time when we all knew Atletico were banned from transfers. The ban was just upheld, not imposed.

Leroy42

Doesn't really matter though.

We are stuck with the leaden Rooney, and A Madrid hold on to Greizeman.

mickmackey1

RobertKK wrote: »

Why are we pursuing Perisic if that is the case?

No I was just making the point that the very top names prefer to spend their heyday in Spain, then consider England for a jackpot.

GSPfan

beakerjoe wrote: »

They are two different situations, similar but different.

Semantics.

Cantona's Collars

Leroy42 wrote: »

Doesn't really matter though.

We are stuck with the leaden Rooney, and A Madrid hold on to Greizeman.

Rooney won't be here come the new season.

Griezmann....................
As Liverpool say "Next Year".;)