Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Minderbinder

Minderbinder wrote: »

Bellotti and Griezmann? Talk about deluded.

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

I agree, that is a good possibility, I suppose I was thinking about Jose liking to have a settled 11 and Mkhi and Martial wouldn't like to be playing second fiddle so would disrupt the squad. Based on this season it does seem that Jose is rotating the wingers a fair bit so maybe he is changing that a bit.

Actually never even thought of Mata too. I'd say if both are brought in with Mata or Martial would make way

If we were to sign Griezman (no certainly on that, I think Mertens a better bet) and a striker such as Bellotti or Lukaku I could see Martial being shown the door. Unless he continues to show improvement in terms of application and attitude (as he did at the weekend) over the last month of the season I could see Mourinho being happy to sacrifice him. Mourinho doesn't seem a big fan of our sulky frenchman.

Cantona's Collars

Minderbinder wrote: »

Sunday is the first time he has come back from injury and actually looked ready to play. He was fairly sharp and I guess he's been training hard for a few weeks.

I think if he has a good end of season Jose will be thinking of keeping him around. Rooney doesn't have pace he once had but he certainly benefits from having players around him who do have pace. And we have plenty of those.

Your username is very apt if you think Rooney will be kept based on a passable performance against a team that offered nothing and a scuttery goal from 3 feet.
At least he ran around a bit more but once more his touch was woeful a lot of the time.
I laugh at how people believe he'll be reborn as the player of 5 or 6 years ago as soon as he has a 6/10 performance. Jose has been very clever at phasing him out and I'd rather not see him stumbling over the ball against City.

Backstreet Moyes

Martial showed last season the potential he has.

Hopefully he shows in the last few games he has what it takes to be first choice next year.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

Martial showed last season the potential he has.

Hopefully he shows in the last few games he has what it takes to be first choice next year.

He has done little for United under Mourinho and, arguably, shown a poor attitude. His agent linking him with moves away in January (commented on specifically by Mourinho) will be a black mark against the kid. All things being equal I reckon Jose would take Rashford and/or Lingard over Martial, imo.

Backstreet Moyes

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He has done little for United under Mourinho and, arguably, shown a poor attitude. His agent linking him with moves away in January (commented on specifically by Mourinho) will be a black mark against the kid. All things being equal I reckon Jose would take Rashford and/or Lingard over Martial, imo.

He looked a superstar at Monaco and was great last season.

Throwing massive money at players is not the way to the club should be run.

He is a kid who had a few personal problems and has shown he has the potential to be world class.

Hococop

It all started over the number change?

Trigger

Nuts102 wrote: »

He looked a superstar at Monaco and was great last season.

Throwing massive money at players is not the way to the club should be run.

He is a kid who had a few personal problems and has shown he has the potential to be world class.

You can have all the talent in the world but if you have attitude and application problems you will find it hard to nail down a place in the starting 11 in any big team.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

He looked a superstar at Monaco and was great last season.

Throwing massive money at players is not the way to the club should be run.

He is a kid who had a few personal problems and has shown he has the potential to be world class.

I don't actually disagree with you.

My point is simply I do believe Jose is looking at a right wing forward and a striker for next season. If Martial is happy and shows the application to be a squad player and fight for a spot then great. If Martial isn't up for the fight I don't think Mourinho would lose any sleep over him being sold.

TheDoc

Stat Bomb*: Marcus Rojo has started the most Premier League games of any player without being on the losing side once this season. 18 occasions. :O


*Courtesy F365

Hococop

Hococop wrote: »

It all started over the number change?

Acting like a bit of a diva if that story was true. Deserved a Jose clipping

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Stat Bomb*: Marcus Rojo has started the most Premier League games of any player without being on the losing side once this season. 18 occasions. :O


*Courtesy F365

Who in there right mind would have said "Huge Loss" last season.
But yea, huge loss this season

RobertKK

There is a bit of a Harry Kane off Andrea Boletti.

Boletti 27 goals in 33 games
Kane 26 goals in 32 games

Both 23.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/squawkanews/status/856805987768037376

Belotti has a €100 million release clause.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He has done little for United under Mourinho and, arguably, shown a poor attitude. His agent linking him with moves away in January (commented on specifically by Mourinho) will be a black mark against the kid. All things being equal I reckon Jose would take Rashford and/or Lingard over Martial, imo.

0.76 non-penalty goals plus assists per 90 in the league this season. Jose needs to figure out how to properly fit him into the starting XI because Martial is a talent we should not be wasting.

RobertKK

Pro. F wrote: »

0.76 non-penalty goals plus assists per 90 in the league this season. Jose needs to figure out how to properly fit him into the team because Martial is a talent we should not be wasting.

Agree as he is still very young, and his stats should only improve.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't actually disagree with you.

My point is simply I do believe Jose is looking at a right wing forward and a striker for next season. If Martial is happy and shows the application to be a squad player and fight for a spot then great. If Martial isn't up for the fight I don't think Mourinho would lose any sleep over him being sold.

Mourinho might not lose any sleep over selling Martial but the rest of us should freak the fùck out.

I highly doubt any fan want's him sold. It's just fairly obvious he's had a poor attitude this season has not taken his chances. He's class however and 100% need to hold onto him.
Love to see a follow up start again Man City and Jose needs to facilitate that after a good performance at the weekend so he is equally responsible.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Belotti has a €100 million release clause.

100 million is the new 10

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

Mourinho might not lose and sleep over selling Martial but the rest of us should freak the fùck out.

Indeed. Again, i've not argued otherwise.

My point is simply what I could see happening in the summer, not what I specifically want to happen.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Who in there right mind would have said "Huge Loss" last season.
But yea, huge loss this season

A credit to himself. MUTV had this mini documentary about him last season and it was a really good watch. Clearly a really nice, grounded guy off the pitch but an absolute monster on it.

It did become pretty clear from that, from old coaches, he just had no care or consideration for his body, all he cared about was winning for his team and fans.

South American players can be a bit whimsy in terms of attackers, but there is something wonderful about a throwback south american defender. There is nothing flash about him, just a really good defender.

And to be fair that was evident when he signed and had that run of matches under Van Gaal, just keeps getting disrupted by injury.

Be brilliant if he got a really consistent run injury free.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I highly doubt any fan want's him sold. It's just fairly obvious he's had a poor attitude this season has not taken his chances. He's class however and 100% need to hold onto him.
Love to see a follow up start again Man City and Jose needs to facilitate that after a good performance at the weekend so he is equally responsible.

You could argue his poor attitude is somewhat warranted in parts.

While there is an obvious case for "you just do what the manager wants" I could understand from a players point of view when there is a part of thinking "why are you playing me like this" ala Hazard, and basically the stereotype that has followed Mourinho around his career about his difficulty in managing attacking, flair players.

I'd imagine what people are experiencing with Martial now is what I've gone through with Memphis, and I find it interesting how easily fans are just believing the manager when he claims players arn't working hard enough or have a poor attitude. The attitude being displayed by Martial this season is no different then what was there last. But as I kept saying at the time when Memphis was being slaughtered, everyone was happily overlooking Martial's attitude because he was playing well and scoring goals. Now we arn't reliant on him, and it seems people are happy to rail in behind the manager and start picking Martial's application apart? He has totally stalled this season. No major deal considering he is a young player, but what should have been a really kicking on season he has been derailed which can easily unsettle a player.

It's always worth remembering Jose has a different view and understanding of those terms,attitude etc., then what we would normally associate with our footballers.

But definitely make no mistake, offloading Martial would be an absolute travesty, much like I've viewed the Memphis situation.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

A credit to himself. MUTV had this mini documentary about him last season and it was a really good watch. Clearly a really nice, grounded guy off the pitch but an absolute monster on it.

It did become pretty clear from that, from old coaches, he just had no care or consideration for his body, all he cared about was winning for his team and fans.

South American players can be a bit whimsy in terms of attackers, but there is something wonderful about a throwback south american defender. There is nothing flash about him, just a really good defender.

And to be fair that was evident when he signed and had that run of matches under Van Gaal, just keeps getting disrupted by injury.

Be brilliant if he got a really consistent run injury free.

Didn't LVG play him out of position also?
He has been solid as a rock, and not because Bailey is beast beside him.
He did the same with Smalling & Jones

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

You could argue his poor attitude is somewhat warranted in parts.

While there is an obvious case for "you just do what the manager wants" I could understand from a players point of view when there is a part of thinking "why are you playing me like this" ala Hazard, and basically the stereotype that has followed Mourinho around his career about his difficulty in managing attacking, flair players.

I'd imagine what people are experiencing with Martial now is what I've gone through with Memphis, and I find it interesting how easily fans are just believing the manager when he claims players arn't working hard enough or have a poor attitude.

It's always worth remembering Jose has a different view and understanding of those terms, then what we would normally associate with our footballers.

But definitely make no mistake, offloading Martial would be an absolute travesty, much like I've viewed the Memphis situation.

TBF I have said Jose is equally responsible for following up and starting him Thursday. He doesn't escape criticism is my point.
Only problem I see is if he plays one up front who actually gets the nod to play down the Middle.
Remember Martial played the role of Rashford Sunday, I'd argue both look more effective in the Center as opposed to out wide

Hococop

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/squawkanews/status/856805987768037376

Belotti has a €100 million release clause.

Bet if Munich or either Spanish team go for him it will be around the €40 million mark, English teams get screwed over big time in value

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Didn't LVG play him out of position also?
He has been solid as a rock, and not because Bailey is beast beside him.
He did the same with Smalling & Jones

He started with him at CB with Evans if I remember? But he was a mainstay at CB for a portion during the first season. He moved LB to provide cover for Shaw's injuries when Blind was playing CM.

Second season Blind and Smalling just formed an incredible partnership, and he was suffering for injuries. Got slotted into LB to cover for Shaw.

He basically got put LB cause he is left footed, but he is just so obviously a CB and nothing else. He played LB a few times this season between good CB performances and looked so ropey and poor.

As Jose says he likes specialists, so Rojo is a Cb and nothing else, I'd imagine covering where times are tough.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

TBF I have said Jose is equally responsible for following up and starting him Thursday. He doesn't escape criticism is my point.
Only problem I see is if he plays one up front who actually gets the nod to play down the Middle.
Remember Martial played the role of Rashford Sunday, I'd argue both look more effective in the Center as opposed to out wide

Missed out on Sunday, which is a pity as I've wanted to see Martial get more chances up front. his skillset looks just build for there. Quick, strong, really good ball control and his finishing is pretty lethal when he gets in those positions. His finishing looks so much better than Rashford at this point.

I do wonder what damage Martial could have done playing more up front this season but alas.

I see his future ideally being a striker, but god knows what his development path will take. If it was clear and transparent, like Rashford, he was playing wide as part of his learning and development (Those comments on Rashford are bluster from Mourinho imo) then fair enough, but it looks like a player getting pigeon holed. So I could understand if he is a bit annoyed being converted to a wide player, with more tracking back and defending, when hes spent his learning football life playing up front. And to have to learn that trade at a top club, where poor performances get slaughtered, and you are playing for a manager who doesn't look like he allows much room for error in the growth of a player.

Obviously it's possible things will change or could change, but I'd fear for Martial becoming a pigeon holed wide player. And that's how it starts. You move a striker wide in a 4-2-3-1 to convince them they are still playing up front, then gradually start making more demands of them to convert them into a wide player. It either works a treat, (Mandzukic this season for Juve) or it's a car crash and you ruin a really promising striker (Dirk Kuyt springs immediately to mind in this scenario)

I always advocated for a 4-2-3-1 during the Fergie years as a method to maybe be better in Europe, but the more I've read about the formattion, the more I've learned about it from various sources, books, etc. and now the more I see it (it's the real "trendy"/"safe" tactic in Europe at the moment) I've come near the conclusion that it's basically a myth formattion, that managers use to appease strikers or central players to move out wide to gradually convert them, but make them believe they are still strikers or forward players.

Think it was football planet had this savage thing about tactics, where there was people talking and drawing how formattions look in different phases of a game, and 4-2-3-1 was so obviously out there in terms of how weird it would get, and it would basically resemble a midrange between 4-5-1 and 4-4-2.

Well when you look it at like that unless he reverts to a 4-4-2 (highly Doubtful) then he's not going to play both down the center.
We all know they are both highly talented young players with huge potential and I expect Jose knows that.
So from Joses perspective he's going to weigh it up based on application and attitude.
Rashford is currently ahead in that race clearly.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Well when you look it at like that unless he reverts to a 4-4-2 (highly Doubtful) then he's not going to play both down the center.
We all know they are both highly talented young players with huge potential and I expect Jose knows that.
So from Joses perspective he's going to weigh it up based on application and attitude.
Rashford is currently ahead in that race clearly.

The attitude thing is a myth. Martial just isn't suited to playing wide in a Jose team, there's too much running for him and, even though he's a good dribbler, he's not great when starting that far away from goal. Play Martial centrally and his supposed attitude problems will disappear in short order.

As a happy coincidence Rashford is suited to playing as an attacking winger in a 433 (where you have a more defensive/possession winger on the other side), Mkhitaryan is suited to playing as the defensive/possession winger and Pogba is suited to playing as a CM in a three.

S.M.B.

My biggest worry with regards to Martials future is that his questionable attitude was the concern raised by quite a few 'experts' when the transfer came out of nowhere.

The general consensus from what I remember was that he has the talent and attributes to be a future Henry but his attitude/application was never the best as he came up through the ranks.

jayo26

Just looking at league table from last year every top six club is sure to improve stats apart from arsenal but just looking at United's.

We need 3 more points to equal last year's tally we will surely beat that by hopefully nine or 10 with still six games to go.

We have one more goal scored already so the problem with the scoring was there last year too it's just that we didnt creat many chances last year.

Defensively we are way ahead of last year too unless we have a total collapse in the last 6 games.

In a nutshell for saying if Jose has improved the team or not well the he has massively just needs to improve the finishing next.

deaddonkey15

paulbok wrote: »

Yeah, he was only a bit player for us, never achieved anything. :rolleyes:

Never said he wasn't a great player. Just think it's gas how his transgressions are easily forgotten and the fact that he's hardly had a nice word to say about the club or it's greatest manager since he left is overlooked. Rooney getting a big contract though: unforgivable.

jayo26

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Never said he wasn't a great player. Just think it's gas how his transgressions are easily forgotten and the fact that he's hardly had a nice word to say about the club or it's greatest manager since he left is overlooked. Rooney getting a big contract though: unforgivable.

Doesn't matter what he said after he left most fans dislike the pundit Roy Keane but that don't take away from the fact he was a club legend and always will be.

Keane and fergie fell out Ferguson hasn't said much positive about Keane since then either.

Giggsy11

jayo26 wrote: »

Doesn't matter what he said after he left most fans dislike the pundit Roy Keane but that don't take away from the fact he was a club legend and always will be.

Keane and fergie fell out Ferguson hasn't said much positive about Keane since then either.

Rooney is also club legend though, so person saying he won't be legend like Keane is wrong.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

The attitude thing is a myth. Martial just isn't suited to playing wide in a Jose team, there's too much running for him and, even though he's a good dribbler, he's not great when starting that far away from goal. Play Martial centrally and his supposed attitude problems will disappear in short order.

As a happy coincidence Rashford is suited to playing as an attacking winger in a 433 (where you have a more defensive/possession winger on the other side), Mkhitaryan is suited to playing as the defensive/possession winger and Pogba is suited to playing as a CM in a three.

Not IMO, versatile and useful out wide but more effective down the middle
Also attitude is arguably a myth but not application. I have watched Martial every-time this season when he's had opportunities he's been poor.
But as I said looks like he could be more effective down the middle given a good run of games, which looks like we both agree on that.
Does Jose progress one player as a central striker at the expense of another? Who knows.

jayo26

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Rooney is also club legend though, so person saying he won't be legend like Keane is wrong.

Totally agree I love Rooney for what he has achieved also I have nearly always defended this when people talk sh1t about him he is one of our best ever players.

Cantona's Collars

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Who in there right mind would have said "Huge Loss" last season.
But yea, huge loss this season

I always liked Rojo,fairly rubbish at full back but the type of nasty baxtard we need at CB.One thing about him is if he gets caught out he busts his bollix trying to get back.His predecessor, Evans used to simply wave his arms in the air.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

I always liked Rojo,fairly rubbish at full back but the type of nasty baxtard we need at CB.One thing about him is if he gets caught out he busts his bollix trying to get back.His predecessor, Evans used to simply wave his arms in the air.

I actually don't think he's nasty at all. He's hardy more so than nasty.
Two poor decisions with lunges this season but generally he's fairly disciplined other than that IMO. I have a feeling he got a talking too by Jose.
I think his reading of the game is where he excels.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

South American players can be a bit whimsy in terms of attackers, but there is something wonderful about a throwback south american defender. There is nothing flash about him, just a really good defender.

His use of the ball which is generally very good also flies under the radar.

Minderbinder

Liam O wrote: »

Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Ibrahimovic.

astradave wrote: »

Manchester United Fans talking about links to players by the papers in the "Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017" thread.

Shock ****in horror

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Honestly if you lot think there's a hope in hell United are going to spend the best part of £200m on two forwards in the same summer then I think that's deluded. I didn't say you weren't entitled to your opinions though.

zerks wrote: »

Your username is very apt if you think Rooney will be kept based on a passable performance against a team that offered nothing and a scuttery goal from 3 feet.
At least he ran around a bit more but once more his touch was woeful a lot of the time.
I laugh at how people believe he'll be reborn as the player of 5 or 6 years ago as soon as he has a 6/10 performance. Jose has been very clever at phasing him out and I'd rather not see him stumbling over the ball against City.

I said if he has a good end of season and builds on his decent performance against Burnley. We all were thinking that Zlatan would be around next season and I think Wayne wouldn't be a bad guy to have around.

Also I never said he'll be reborn as the player he was.

ollkiller

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Rooney is also club legend though, so person saying he won't be legend like Keane is wrong.

jayo26 wrote: »

Totally agree I love Rooney for what he has achieved also I have nearly always defended this when people talk sh1t about him he is one of our best ever players.

Not saying Rooney won't go down as a legend but he wont be a legend like Keane. Ever. Would Rooney make the best ever United team. Not a hope in my opinion. Keane. First name on the sheet (well maybe second after Sir Bobby).

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

His use of the ball which is generally very good also flies under the radar.

Well his port of call seems to be launch it, but he does seem to hit some very accurate balls and he does like threading a ball through the middle. Definitely seemed a competent ball playing CB under Van Gaal when it was forced and has shown it time to time under Jose, but his default seems to be to launch it, but with some purpose as compared to say a John O'Shea launch

Jayop

ollkiller wrote: »

Not saying Rooney won't go down as a legend but he wont be a legend like Keane. Ever. Would Rooney make the best ever United team. Not a hope in my opinion. Keane. First name on the sheet (well maybe second after Sir Bobby).

It's a bit harder as a striker to make that team though. Even if you just take the last thirty years there's only really possibly 3 center midfield players with a shout, 4 cbs, 4 wingers, 4 full backs and 3 keepers. There's a load of strikers though and saying Rooney wouldn't be able to get in ahead of them is hardly a massive criticism.

Tell you what though, for a one off game he might not get in, but if I was picking eleven players from the last thirty years with a view towards building a squad then a 18 year old Rooney would be there quicker than all those greats like Cantona Ruud Ronaldo and the rest who didn't have his longevity at the club.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Acting like a bit of a diva if that story was true. Deserved a Jose clipping

not really, it was his number, I would have said it was Ibra acting the diva if he was going to a new club taking the number of a player already at the club added to the fact the Ibra was going to be at the club for a max 2 years.

Martial is a fantastic player, hope he stays at the club for a very long time

Giggsy11

ollkiller wrote: »

Not saying Rooney won't go down as a legend but he wont be a legend like Keane. Ever. Would Rooney make the best ever United team. Not a hope in my opinion. Keane. First name on the sheet (well maybe second after Sir Bobby).

In years time opinions change. People will remember Rooney's time fondly just like we do with every past player.

Now people talk about what a bitter idiot Keane is but forget he also threatened to leave Manutd when we didn't meet his wage demands, at that time ManUtd broke wage structure to offer him big contract.

Not that I hate it as players can demand whatever they want to, but it's such a shame people talk about Rooney's contract when he has played and won so many trophies for us.

Jayop

Man in trying to get the best wages he can in short career shocker.

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

In years time opinions change. People will remember Rooney's time fondly just like we do with every past player.

Now people talk about what a bitter idiot Keane is but forget he also threatened to leave Manutd when we didn't meet his wage demands, at that time ManUtd broke wage structure to offer him big contract.

Not that I hate it as players can demand whatever they want to, but it's such a shame people talk about Rooney's contract when he has played and won so many trophies for us.

If he had been pushing for a move to anyone but Man City I think the contract situation would be seen differently.

Mitch Connor

Similarly, if Heinze had been trying to leave United (which no one minded) for a Spanish or Italian side, rather than Liverpool, fans would look back at that situation a lot better.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not IMO, versatile and useful out wide but more effective down the middle
Also attitude is arguably a myth but not application. I have watched Martial every-time this season when he's had opportunities he's been poor.
But as I said looks like he could be more effective down the middle given a good run of games, which looks like we both agree on that.
Does Jose progress one player as a central striker at the expense of another? Who knows.

Attitude/application, it's all the same. Your criticism of him this season has been way over the top. While you've been constantly moaning about him all season he's still scored or set-up a goal in three out of four games (90 minutes) and all that while playing in a role that he's not really suited to.

Regarding Rashford, in certain styles of football he might be more suited to playing through the middle, but as a CF in a Mourinho team he's definitely lacking in terms of strength in the air and hold up play.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If he had been pushing for a move to anyone but Man City I think the contract situation would be seen differently.

Andy Cole, Law, Great Dane all played for City.

Rooney also apologized for pushing for transfer and he also said he wanted to go abroad and not to City. How true that was is just a guess work, he might be saying truth or making things up but in the end he apologized and he was superb in the second half of that season.