Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not half as panicked this year as last, if it does happen. Only Spurs have conceded less goals than us this season, but while we had a great defense last year in terms of stats, there were countless examples of DDG having to make 3 or four saves a game. DDG single-handedly kept those goals out sometimes. Jose, on the other hand, has actually created a team that overall is rock solid, in terms of the fact we're not even letting teams get those shots this year.And thats with a group of defenders that I think most people had written half of off.

Yeah, there's still problems in terms of brain farts. But overall, our defensive nature is far, far less reliant on a world class keeper than last year. I'd hate to lose DDG. I love the man. But I'd be far less worried, and could see the benefits of using him in a bid to lure a real madrid player or two to us, in terms of overall team strenght.

He still made unbelievable saves all season and the defense is a more secure and calm with him in goals. He will be a massive loss but he is spanish and from madrid so i would begrudge him a move.

Looking like it will be another summer of big business

ceegee

Would people be happy to see Romero get the first choice slot if De Gea goes? Has been pretty solid when he's played this year, don't think he's let in more than 1 goal in any match.

No top class alternatives spring to mind who'd be easily obtainable this summer.

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

Would take Ronaldo 100% of the time

It's not about player you would have in the team, that would be very obvious.

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not half as panicked this year as last, if it does happen. Only Spurs have conceded less goals than us this season, but while we had a great defense last year in terms of stats, there were countless examples of DDG having to make 3 or four saves a game. DDG single-handedly kept those goals out sometimes. Jose, on the other hand, has actually created a team that overall is rock solid, in terms of the fact we're not even letting teams get those shots this year.And thats with a group of defenders that I think most people had written half of off.

Yeah, there's still problems in terms of brain farts. But overall, our defensive nature is far, far less reliant on a world class keeper than last year. I'd hate to lose DDG. I love the man. But I'd be far less worried, and could see the benefits of using him in a bid to lure a real madrid player or two to us, in terms of overall team strenght.

Goal keeper is very important for defense, defenders are lot more calm knowing there is De Gea behind them. GK like Mignolet or Bravo would make defenders nervous.

He would be a big loss.

GSPfan

If there is no obvious replacement available for De Gea then sure why not give Romero a shot. But as a bit of a gamble I'd like to see Jordan Pickford bought. I think he is potentially brilliant. But i think its so hard to tell with goalkeepers.

If De Gea really truely wants to go back to Spain then I'm ok with him going. He hasn't acted the maggot and has kept his mouth shut so I can respect that. Players from other countries wanting to return home to play for their home team or team they supported is something I can't begrudge.

Rayne Wooney

It makes no sense to let De Gea go unless it's a mind boggling fee.

Bending over for Madrid when the club is in the financial position it is now would be spineless. I'd rather let him go for free in two years after Mourinho has a good go at the league than for 50 million. In this market we will need to spend the majority of that on either a downgrade or a shaky young lad who may or may not become world class like De Gea was back in the day.

ElChe32

Jan Oblak or Navas from Real would be the likely options should our boy Dave move back to Spain.

Would hate to see him leave, but I think it's looking more and more likely.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/manutdmen/status/857191061059448832

Jan Oblak's representatives in the UK to talk to United.
He has an £85 million release clause, his close friends at Atletico are said to be Griezmann and Gimenez, two other Atletico players we have been linked with.

fergiesfolly

Romero didn't fill me with confidence during extra time in Europa League and its those occasions where you need your keeper to excel. He seemed to flap at the ball a lot and that really undermines defenders confidence.

If we need to replace DeGea, I'd prefer an experienced keeper. I think it would help the confidence of the defenders, if the keeper didnt need to prove himself, as he'd already have experience in big games.
Dont know who though. Every keeper mentioned on the press seems to be 25 or under.

RobertKK

We have been for a while constantly linked with Oblak.

Pro. F

I do think Jones and Smalling's futures at the club are in jeopardy because of their injury troubles. And that would be true no matter who the manager was. But Mourinho's treatment of Jones in particular has been awful. And I've no interest in what the Daily Mail has to say about it, it's safe to assume they are lying. But the reaction on this thread annoys me.

Here's what's happened with Jones and Mourinho this season: After being out injured for a long time Jones came back at a time when Mourinho was stuck for centre-backs.

Jones' first game back he played the full 90 minutes - a bad idea for a player just back from a long injury lay-off. And he went on to play 7 consecutive full 90s in the next 7 league games. During that run he also played two midweek games (one League Cup and one Europa game) and in there there was a run of three league games in six days during the Christmas period. He wasn't subbed off once. He had one league game on the bench on New Year's Eve, then went back to starting the next four league games, not being subbed until the fourth when he got injured. Oh yeah and there was also two full 90s in League Cup games and 70 minutes of an FA cup game during that run. Surprise, surprise he got injured (in the draw against Hull) and was out for 10 days. Then he came back and played 4 full 90s and one sub appearance over the next 46 days, before succumbing to injury again.

For a player just back from a long injury that was a ridiculous run of games played over four months. He was subbed off once. This was wreckless management by Mourinho. He ran Jones into the ground. But there weren't enough CBs in the squad, so there wasn't much choice. Jones stepped up and played well.

Now that he's injured again Mourinho calls him out by name in a press conference and says he needs to be braver. That is dispicable treatment of a player. Utterly despicable.

Jones might well not have a future at the club because of his injury woes, regardless of the manager. But he deserves to be treated fairly and with respect. Mourinho didn't do near a good enough job of planning his squad in the summer nor managing it during the season - he tried to win everything, rather than prioritise competitions so he could rest players. And so he has found himself short of defenders during the season. That's on him. Jones did his part. But, as has been the case all season, Mourinho is more than happy to throw his players under the bus when it suits him.

RobertKK

I expect Jose knows more about the situation than you or I...

Pro. F

RobertKK wrote: »

I expect Jose knows more about the situation than you or I...

Jose has always publicly demanded that his players play through injuries and has always chosen to use small squads and run his players into the ground. I expect that strategy will not work with players like Jones and Smalling, who have a history of injury troubles.

Trigger

A broken toe is not the result of being run into the ground. Fair enough if he pulled his hamstring or another muscle injury but he didn't and Jose can't be blamed on Smalling breaking Jones toe in England duty.

The quotes that are calling for the two to be braver are more that they have to come back a bit sooner after their injuries heal up and do everything they can to try get back sooner.

Jose wrote:

"We have Daley Blind, who has experience in the position, and I think it is time for Jones and Smalling to be brave - to risk.

"Because for the team you have to do everything, that is the way I think. You cannot do miracles, so miracles I don't expect, but they have to try to do everything to accelerate the process.

"They have injuries, and even with a crazy mentality, they cannot play Sunday (at Burnley in the Premier League).

"But with a special spirit, you can (come back) sooner than expected. So instead of mid-May, it could be the beginning of May, this kind of acceleration of the process."

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

Jose has always publicly demanded that his players play through injuries and has always chosen to use small squads and run his players into the ground. I expect that strategy will not work with players like Jones and Smalling, who have a history of injury troubles.

I think there are circumstanes where players cry off too quickly over any niggling injury. Saha, as an example, is one I have seen commented on as not being willing to play unless he was 100%.

Jose praised Rashford for putting himself forward to play earlier in the season (vs Chelsea in the cup I think) - but he had 'just' been ill.

However, in these specific cases.... Smalling only just lost his knee brace and was doing conditioning work in the pool the other day. I have to assume this is physio/medical department ran - that to me doesn't indicate it would be medically advisable for him to play in possibly the highest intensity game of the season. Jones is recovering from a broken toe - if it is still significantly damaged then obviously it would be pointless playing him.

In these cases, I just don't see (from the outside) how I could expect Smalling to be 'brave' to play on Thursday. Jones could be a possibility - i'm not sure the prognosis for a broken toe.

Possibly related to this is Rojo - why in the name of feck was he sent back on vs Anderlecht. That one non-sub situation has me questioning the physio/medical department.

Pro. F

astradave wrote: »

A broken toe is not the result of being run into the ground. Fair enough if he pulled his hamstring or another muscle injury but he didn't and Jose can't be blamed on Smalling breaking Jones toe in England duty.

What are you talking about? Fatigue leads to all sorts of injuries, including broken bones when playing/training. The fact that it was on England duty that he got injured doesn't change the fact Mourinho ran him into the ground and so made it far more likely that he would get injured. He was virtually guaranteed to get an injury the way he was being used, it just so happened to be while he was on England duty.

astradave wrote: »

The quotes that are calling for the two to be braver are more that they have to come back a bit sooner after their injuries heal up and do everything they can to try get back sooner.

Exactly, calling on them be braver and come back sooner from their injury. Ridiculous to be calling Jones out by name and saying he needs to be braver and come back sooner, after what he's done for Mourinho this season.

Cantona's Collars

Every time Jones gets out of bed we are worried he'd injure himself.Smalling managed to injure one of his teammates and then himself.
There seems to be some kind of ineptitude with both of them which leads to concession of chances to the opposition or the players themselves getting injured.
Jose needs players he can rely on to take the field and do what he asks,it's like any job,if I was in a similar situation to Jones in my job,questions over my ability to turn in and do it would be asked too.

Cantona's Collars

Didn't Klopp do similar with Sturridge? He said a lot of his problems were mental.Every niggle is a huge problem in the mind of the player.Lucky these fellas don't play rugby or they'd be in ICU every week.

Cantona's Collars

Non-penalty goals per 90 minutes this season:

Messi, Aubameyang, Mbappe, Morata - 1
Suarez - 0.9
Lewandowski, Cavani, Falcao, Higuain, Dzeko, Mertens, Belotti - 0.8

(whoscored.com - top 5 European league players with greater than 1000 mins).

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Every time Jones gets out of bed we are worried he'd injure himself.Smalling managed to injure one of his teammates and then himself.
There seems to be some kind of ineptitude with both of them which leads to concession of chances to the opposition or the players themselves getting injured.
Jose needs players he can rely on to take the field and do what he asks,it's like any job,if I was in a similar situation to Jones in my job,questions over my ability to turn in and do it would be asked too.

Whether or not you think Jones is good enough for the job, when his manager is speaking publicly he should still treat him with due fairness and respect. I'm not complaining about Jones' suitability for the club being questioned by us fans or the media. I'm complaining about his manager calling him out publicly after Jones has helped the team so much this season by playing a ridiculous run of games.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Didn't Klopp do similar with Sturridge? He said a lot of his problems were mental.Every niggle is a huge problem in the mind of the player.Lucky these fellas don't play rugby or they'd be in ICU every week.

Oh well if that's what the Liverpool manager did then it's all right. Certainly, whenever we are discussing the United manager's behaviour we should look to LFC and follow their lead.

bucketybuck

Its good that Jones helped the club so much this season, by playing games he really went above and beyond and we shall all be eternally grateful to him.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Whether or not you think Jones is good enough for the job, when his manager is speaking publicly he should still treat him with due fairness and respect. I'm not complaining about Jones' suitability for the club being questioned by us fans or the media. I'm complaining about his manager calling him out publicly after Jones has helped the team so much this season by playing a ridiculous run of games.

Excellent post. Agree 100%. In layman’s terms, why the fúck does Jose need to say to the media that if it were him he would play. What’s the gain? I know he deflects a lot from players at times (Beit intentional or self absorbed) but I can't see any gain for anyone here when he comes out with stuff like that.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its good that Jones helped the club so much this season, by playing games he really went above and beyond and we shall all be eternally grateful to him.

What an utterly stupid response. He didn't just play games - as we would obviously expect of a player. He played an absolute manic schedule as I outlined in my first post. To do that after just coming back from injury was certainly something he should get respect for.

GustavoGaviria

Transfer rumors are the original click bait. Any deal is worked on well in advance, anything else is a vested party looking to increase exposure or a timed paper link to leverage fan power over contract renewals.

Nike, Adidas etc have dossiers on players with all the details and player plans protected by NDA's. Rooney's 250 goal boot was commissioned 3 years ago, shows how far his strike rate fell below Nike expectations.

Cookiemunster

Pogba out of the derby.

https://twitter.com/DTguardian/status/857224575955984385

ElChe32

Pogba will be a massive loss if true

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Genuinely curious as to your take on the story (presuming its true and not just made up).

As under the Van Gaal regime, Carrick and Rooney.

Basically any story that is from the good Manchester based journalists, that references "senior players" I just insert "Carrick and Rooney".

As someone else mentioned, expect these kind of stories to arise end of season when players see the writing on the wall and they try some twisting to secure themselves in the club.

I'm pretty confident both were the players leaking inside stuff to the press during Van Gaal's time at the club, including the infamous piece after he departed.

Was confirmed as much by some journalists on podcasts and on Sunday Supplement there was a slip from one of the Manchester Based journalists running the story at the time, think it was Ducker, and you could see everyone get instantly awkward as Ashton tried to move it quickly on (that's filmed live)

Andy Mitten for example appears every now and then on Off the Ball (I don't listen anymore) but some of the UK journalists tend to let their guard down more on Irish radio and coverage, and he just outright stated that it was Rooney and Carrick, more so the former.

I figure him as a decent source as during all the Van Gaal to be fired stories he did an interview with OTB where he went quiet in depth as to how the whole "story goes to journalists to pave the way" ahead of a big newsdrop(it was really interesting) and he was one of the few people who kept saying he was told nothing, has heard nothing, and if something was about to happen his contacts would be onto him to discuss it.

Obviously I've no proof or facts, just my interpretation and I don't claim to be some deity on it, but I just keep close tabs on how that side of the game works (long lost career aspiration) and that's just how I take the "senior player" angle, because both of them are on their ear this summer and both looked like they were gonzo last summer if Van Gaal was still there.

bangkok

ElChe32 wrote: »

Pogba will be a massive loss if true

Massive loss yes but im actually happy he is out. Said it a few days ago, would hate if he was rushed back and then got a long term injury and out for the season. Would keep him fresh for celta

TheDoc

ceegee wrote: »

Would people be happy to see Romero get the first choice slot if De Gea goes? Has been pretty solid when he's played this year, don't think he's let in more than 1 goal in any match.

No top class alternatives spring to mind who'd be easily obtainable this summer.

Would massively soften the blow. De Gea and Neuer and a handful of others are at a level much higher then most. Romero sits in the level just below imo.

He is a great shot stopper, good reflexes, actually more commanding of his box then De Gea, but at times will be less assured. I think he does that age old thing of goalkeepers playing for big teams who get a bit bored then want to get involved.

The unsung attribute of De Gea is he keeps high concentration levels for his little involvement in games, but never feels the need to get involved or "ah heor im bored" and go running into no mans land.

Romero would massively soften the blow, and be a more then capable replacement for a team with title aspirations. There is some nice up and coming goalkeepers out there, but it would be money spent that I don't think is warranted when you have someone like Romero on the bench.

He's also only 30, and yet already has serious gametime under his belt, nevermind being the most capped Argentinian goalkeeper, with arguably his peek years still to come.

Lithium93_

Pogba is DEFINITELY out of the derby tomorrow night, it's on BBC Sports.

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/857227786603442176

It's a blow for Man Utd.

Paul Pogba has been ruled out of Thursday's Manchester derby.

More: http://bbc.in/2q5jmpD

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh well if that's what the Liverpool manager did then it's all right. Certainly, whenever we are discussing the United manager's behaviour we should look to LFC and follow their lead.

My point is José isn't unique in calling out players in public.Didn't Fergie do it to Nani also.
Jose has his methods, I couldn't care less who's feelings he hurts if we win trophies.Permacrocks aren't what we need,Jones had become a running joke due to his injuries. Smalling less so but is catching up.

TheDoc

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It's not about player you would have in the team, that would be very obvious.

Then what is it about?

I'd take Ronaldo at the club every day over Rooney also.

These are footballers, what more is there to what they do on the pitch? In terms of dressing room atmosphere or general operandum about the club, I'd take dozens of players ahead of Rooney

jayo26

Midfield of Carrick, fellaini and Herrera sure it be grand.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Great post.

I'm with you 100%. I cannot believe there isn't a massive stink being made over this, and I'm borderline shocked at how quickly people are rowing in behind the manager when he is slamming players in public.

This is the same manager you looked at when managing other clubs, doing this, and would baulk and laugh at.

His public comments about Jones and Smalling are ridiculous, Jones especially as Pro.F points out, who clearly stepped up coming back from that injury. The manager clearly masking for his deficiencies in the summer and also his abhorrent squad management this season.

I'd imagine people are maybe buying into the seeds that were planted earlier in the season where Jose questioned attitude and desire of I believe at the time, Smalling. Wether it was by name or he was named in papers, it's a ridiculous situation that is manifesting.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

What an utterly stupid response. He didn't just play games - as we would obviously expect of a player. He played an absolute manic schedule as I outlined in my first post. To do that after just coming back from injury was certainly something he should get respect for.

Will some T-shirts do or should we go all the way and get some medals minted up?

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

My point is Jos? isn't unique in calling out players in public.Didn't Fergie do it to Nani also.

What did Fergie do to Nani exactly? Was it similar to what Jose has done here, or was it a completely different situation?

zerks wrote: »

Jose has his methods, I couldn't care less who's feelings he hurts if we win trophies.Permacrocks aren't what we need,Jones had become a running joke due to his injuries. Smalling less so but is catching up.

It's not about people's feelings being hurt, it's about behaving with class.

bangkok

Joey barton banned for 18 months for betting.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Whether or not you think Jones is good enough for the job, when his manager is speaking publicly he should still treat him with due fairness and respect. I'm not complaining about Jones' suitability for the club being questioned by us fans or the media. I'm complaining about his manager calling him out publicly after Jones has helped the team so much this season by playing a ridiculous run of games.

And in sorts, insinuating that Jones is somewhat shying away from playing, or feigning how bad the injury is.

That just never sits with players in any shape or form, never mind publicly, so I'm not surprised if there is some dressing room backlash.

This is a player who has consistently put his body on the line when playing for the club, has a clear desire to succeed and when he does come back, shows he has ability to be a good defender. As mentioned, he bailed Jose out this season, and formed an excellent partnership with Rojo.

You'd imagine there would be some encouragement and patience since Jones has a fracture rather than a muscle injury, a fracture that is easily recoverable from.

If I'm remembering right Lampard commented earlier in the season how he played with injections to play through a fracture in his foot or toe or something. And when he was pushed (it was either MNF or Goals on Sunday) he in retrospect said along the lines that he wouldn't have done it again, as it just prolonged the required recovery time and hampered other parts of his season.

TheDoc

Like ffs, "Smalling and Jones not making themselves available" Carrington has one of the best medical facilities in world football that Ferguson had implemented. We employ some of the best sports medical practitioners in the business.

If they arn't available it's because it's obviously not medically viable to do so. Where does any manager get off questioning his medical staff or team. You know, actual ****ing experts. So ridiculous

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Joey barton banned for 18 months for betting.

Wow,our Eric only got six months for fighting that chav in 1995!

jayo26

zorro2566 wrote: »

Wow,our Eric only got six months for fighting that chav in 1995!

Drug cheats got less. They weren't even substantial bets like just 3 quid on first scorer and stuff. I don't like him but it's pretty harsh.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Like ffs, "Smalling and Jones not making themselves available" Carrington has one of the best medical facilities in world football that Ferguson had implemented. We employ some of the best sports medical practitioners in the business.

If they arn't available it's because it's obviously not medically viable to do so. Where does any manager get off questioning his medical staff or team. You know, actual ****ing experts. So ridiculous

Yep, there would obviously be a large element of the player declaring their fitness but these comments from Jose are just awful. How must Jones and smalling feel?

Either they are fit and therefore lying to the Manger and their teammates or they are injured and being punished and castigated for it. How can comments like this not have a massive impact on team cohesion?

I wouldn't mind this bravery thing being a general comment on footballers - some do cry off too easily - but the specifics here are unjustifiable.

With players worrying over this crap it could lead to further injuries in future. Could Rojo have come back on (when it was locked buoys he shouldn't) and done even worse damage - just because he didn't want to be called out as a coward? I'm not saying that is what happened - but this behaviour could encourage such reckless decisions in the future.

Raging about Pogba

Midfield of Fellani/ Herrea with Miki Ryan as #10?

Leaves Martial Rashford Lingard up front as a trio?

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Raging about Pogba

Midfield of Fellani/ Herrea with Miki Ryan as #10?

Leaves Martial Rashford Lingard up front as a trio?

I don't think we have the defenders available to have that relatively attacking forward 6 vs Man City, away.

can't see Carrick not starting (rightly or wrongly)

---

De Gea

---

Baily--Blind--Darmian
Valencia

---

Young

---

Herrera-Carrick-Fellaini

---

Lingard-Rashford

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yep, there would obviously be a large element of the player declaring their fitness but these comments from Jose are just awful. How must Jones and smalling feel?

Either they are fit and therefore lying to the Manger and their teammates or they are injured and being punished and castigated for it. How can comments like this not have a massive impact on team cohesion?

I wouldn't mind this bravery thing being a general comment on footballers - some do cry off too easily - but the specifics here are unjustifiable.

With players worrying over this crap it could lead to further injuries in future. Could Rojo have come back on (when it was locked buoys he shouldn't) and done even worse damage - just because he didn't want to be called out as a coward? I'm not saying that is what happened - but this behaviour could encourage such reckless decisions in the future.

I'd imagine their might be some adjustment from the players as well. This could be a bit of a shock coming from the Van Gaal regime where he had a very clear "procesh" about players returning from injury going through stages of training and utilising the under 23's for game time and sharpness before a player is ready to come back. Thought it was a sensible approach considering the amount of injuries he was contending with, he rarely to never risked people.

So players go through that, I'd assume appreciate it so as it seems to have their best interest at the core, and now to a regime where it's "you're not hard enough, I had John Terry who would play with his ankle hanging off" and these throwbacks to all the "real men" he had an Inter etc.

That's why I'm never buying immediately into anything he says. I simply don't think he can be taken at face value, and his interpretation of situations or his expectations are vastly different to the norm.

Thats why I was a bit surprised to see many row in along with the critique of Martial, and Shaw especially. The Shaw stuff was and still is incredible.

Co-incidentally not a dicky about Rooney who has barely featured, seemingly had a few injuries withdrawing from squads. Maybe it is a case of Mourinho going harder on the ones he sees in his future plans? But **** me, there are ways to doing things

No Place for Miki Ryan?

StringerBell

Suppose it was inevitable the have some key players go down with injury given the horrendous squad management over the course of the season. Shame its at the business end of course, but not surprising.

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

No Place for Miki Ryan?

Nope. Playing away from home, dealing with injuries to key players and a glut of matches - it is going to be a conservative formation imo. I don't think Fellaini and Herrera could protect the beaten up defence well enough to put Mkhitaryan in front of them rather than Carrick behind them.

EDIT: Also, offensively I would like Martial over Lingard, but Lingard is another I reckon will get the pick based on a defensive outlook on the game.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Suppose it was inevitable the have some key players go down with injury given the horrendous squad management over the course of the season. Shame its at the business end of course, but not surprising.

Really?