Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The only reason he isn't available is because he's an idiot.



I'd rather see Rooney on the ball in midfield instead of Fellaini.

Seriously, do you have a script running that alerts you when the word "Rooney" is used?

beno619

Giggsy11 wrote: »

IMO few people are too stupid to not able to differentiate between transfer fee and judging players performance.

IMO few people are blinded by the name Paul Pogba and he's gotten away with some god awful performances this season.

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

How is He? I've asked what has he done to deserve this statement?

Go and rewatch the 2 Liverpool games.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Seriously, do you have a script running that alerts you when the word "Rooney" is used?

That joke was made a number of times before. It was only funny when Cookie_dough first made it. God how I laughed. I get a little notification in the corner of my screen when there is a new post in a thread that I follow.

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

Go and rewatch the 2 Liverpool games.

So your picking two games that we setup defensively to judge him on? I have no arguments I've said it before he is good for that but that don't make him just shade one of the best midfielders in the league and ahead of pogba who has offered loads more going forward and still contributed defensively when needed.

Giggsy11

beno619 wrote: »

IMO few people are blinded by the name Paul Pogba and he's gotten away with some god awful performances this season.

Gooten away from who? He was called out when he played poorly like against Liverpool but few people think he only plays well when he scores or assists which is nonsense.

jayo26

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

I'm not bashing fellaini here ok I think he has his uses with his strength but what exactly does he do consistently well going forward?

Good movement off the ball, good close control and strength on it and good short passing. The very things you should look for in a CM.

jayo26 wrote: »

He doesn't score many goals he doesn't assist many goals he doesn't creat many chances he doesn't make many passes.

Aside from the passes, none of these things are important for central midfielders. And you are wrong about the passes.

jayo26 wrote: »

He is a battering ram with some nice touches but he ain't consistently out better performer he is nowhere near the level of Herrera or most any other of our better players.

There isn't much between himself and Herrera at all.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

That joke was made a number of times before. It was only funny when Cookie_dough first made it. God how I laughed. I get a little notification in the corner of my screen when there is a new post in a thread that I follow.

Oh I wasn't joking in the slightest.

beno619

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Gooten away from who? He was called out when he played poorly like against Liverpool but few people think he only plays well when he scores or assists which is nonsense.

I honestly haven't seen that from any regulars in here it just seems to be a lazy statement trotted out to defend Pogba's performances by a few posters.

Nobody expects 20 goals a season.

I expected a player who would influence the biggest games of the season.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Good movement off the ball, good close control and strength on it and good short passing. The very things you should look for in a CM.



Aside from the passes, none of these things are important for central midfielders. And you are wrong about the passes.



There isn't much between himself and Herrera at all.

Ok so it's his passing that makes him so good then?

I don't think I'm wrong about the passing pogba makes more passes per game then him with same percentage of completion he creates more chances per game then him so why ain't we all saying how good pogba is then?

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Ok so it's his passing that makes him so good then?

Why are you ignoring what I said? Read and respond properly and I might bother to keep discussing it with you.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Why are you ignoring what I said? Read and respond properly and I might bother to keep discussing it with you.

It's no skin off my nose if you discuss it with me or not you joined the conversation if my response are not up to your standards I don't really care.

Your saying fellaini has good movement off the ball and he has good passing and strenght is that right?

I'm saying pogba has the same attributes but offers alot more going forward then fellaini does but he is been called pathetic and among other things and fellaini is been compared against one if the best midfielders in the league which the stats show he is actually not even close to ander apart from a few defending stats while he gets nowhere near them attacking wise.

In the majority of the games fellaini plays he is brought on when we want to tighten up the game when we are sitting deeper and he dies really well there but if we are looking for creativity from midfield fellaini dies not do that and we needed him to do it against city Thursday night and he didn't offer that.

Lithium93_

On this day in 2008, Paul Scholes rocketed United into the Champions League final.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/858245506086162432

Giggsy11

beno619 wrote: »

I honestly haven't seen that from any regulars in here it just seems to be a lazy statement trotted out to defend Pogba's performances by a few posters.

Nobody expects 20 goals a season.

I expected a player who would influence the biggest games of the season.

He had few poor games, especially 2 against Liverpool, so what? That doesn't make his whole season poor.

Hococop

Sunderland down, completely forgot about januzaj wonder what Jose will do with him in the summer

jayo26

Hococop wrote: »

Sunderland down, completely forgot about januzaj wonder what Jose will do with him in the summer

He says he already knows what he going to do is assume he will be sold.

thelad95

I really don't know why Sunderland didn't sack Moyes around February, that's a dreadful squad of players he's got there but at the same time, I get the impression that he never fully had the dressing room.

Edit: Just noticed Leeds have now officially bottled their chance at promotion.

Hococop

thelad95 wrote: »

I really don't know why Sunderland didn't sack Moyes around February, that's a dreadful squad of players he's got there but at the same time, I get the impression that he never fully had the dressing room.

He was never given a budget, he was screwed from the start, gotta feel sorry for him

Lord TSC

Hococop wrote: »

He was never given a budget, he was screwed from the start, gotta feel sorry for him

Feels like Moyes always has an excuse though. Budget or not, a manager who deserved to be United manager should have at least been able to muster a battle out of the team. He knew what he was getting into when he signed for Sunderland.

jayo26

Agree with tsc moyes had defoe also something none of the bottom teams had s striker capable of putting away chances consistently.

bucketybuck

I don't think Moyes has done a good job at Sunderland.

But I also don't think that anybody would have kept them up, this relegation has been coming a long time. It rather mitigates any criticism of his poor job.

Headshot

Sad to see John O'Shea relegated

Liam O

Hococop wrote: »

He was never given a budget, he was screwed from the start, gotta feel sorry for him

He got some money to spend but just tried to carpet bomb the squad with players who weren't really upto it. No crazy money but more than a few of the teams down there. I maintain that he should have gotten a crack at a second season with United because he was best placed to see who was phoning it in and had to be replaced after his first season but he hasn't done well at Sunderland at all.

Ndong wasn't a bad signing but when you look at the likes of Donald Love, McNair, Lescott and Oviedo among others weren't what was needed and were always going to let him down. Taking a risk on Adnan and Djilobodji was fair enough but neither really repaid him and justified their moves.

Korat

Defoe wouldn't be a bad signing.

thelad95

Headshot wrote: »

Sad to see John O'Shea relegated

I feel he may be snapped up by one of the lower level sides in the league like stoke or burnley, he's certainly still above championship standard.

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Your saying fellaini has good movement off the ball and he has good passing and strenght is that right?

And good close control.

jayo26 wrote: »

I'm saying pogba has the same attributes but offers alot more going forward then fellaini does but he is been called pathetic and among other things and fellaini is been compared against one if the best midfielders in the league which the stats show he is actually not even close to ander apart from a few defending stats while he gets nowhere near them attacking wise.

I didn't say anything about Pogba, I was talking about Fellaini. But I can talk about Pogba too if you want to compare them.

While Pogba can win duels, go on dribbles and pick out through balls with the best of them, he is relatively weak at the things you actually need from a CM.

Fellaini in CM reliably keeps possession moving in the areas you want it. He takes up good positions to provide a link for the team and when he receives the ball he moves it on quickly to where it needs to go. Defensively he blocks off areas the opposition will want to go, is reliable in his marking and is a good tackler.

Pogba, as a CM, on the other hand isn't so good at these things (except for tackling). He isn't good at keeping possession flowing in such a way so as to knit a team together and build attacks. Rather than move the ball on quickly and reliably, he nearly goes looking for duels to get involved in. He compulsively dribbles the ball, even when that is the opposite of what the team needs. And his off the ball movement lacks intelligence. Defensively he doesn't read the game so well, but he is good at winning the ball back when he gets a chance.

Pogba is good at breaking a game open, delivering an incisive through ball or shot, but those attributes are just not that important for a central midfielder. There are other, bread and butter things, that are a lot more important. So you shouldn't be distracted by his chance creation and goal scoring numbers.

With regards to the stats, there are several things you have missed.

First, Fellaini has been brought on and used in very advanced positions, when chasing games, and as an extra body when the team has been parking the bus on many occasions this season. That will bring down his number of passes (attempted and completed) considerably. Even with that he is still only 5 passes off Kante's number for successful passes per 90 (49 for Fell, 54 for Kante). Kante who is actually the best CM in the league.

You posted up number of forward passes as if it is significant. It is not. A CM who takes up too many deep positions when he's needed further up to pitch can get a boost to the number of forward passes. It is simply not a stat you can hold up as evidence that one CM is superior to another.

Average pass length is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Chances created, key passes, assists, number of shots and goals are not good ways of judging central midfielders. Succesful take-ons tells you about a CM's style, not their quality.

Just to be clear. All this isn't to say that Pogba isn't a good player, he is. It's just that what he's good at isn't the CM job. He needs a freer role, with two proper CMs doing the CM job instead of him.

jayo26 wrote: »

In the majority of the games fellaini plays he is brought on when we want to tighten up the game when we are sitting deeper and he dies really well there but if we are looking for creativity from midfield fellaini dies not do that and we needed him to do it against city Thursday night and he didn't offer that.

We needed a lot of things beyond just creativity on Thursday. The whole team played poorly (and that is pretty much down to Jose). Aside from the stupid red, Fellaini was no worse than Ander was in that game and no worse than Pogba has been in some other big games this season.

wanderer100

Korat wrote: »

Defoe wouldn't be a bad signing.

Yeah he would be a terrible signing

SteM

Korat wrote: »

Defoe wouldn't be a bad signing.

For who? Not for United surely? He's 34!

Korat

If we had Defoe this season I think we'd have won some of those draws.

Hococop

Korat wrote: »

If we had Defoe this season I think we'd have won some of those draws.

Forget Defoe, if we had chico where would we be

thelad95

I can't help but feel a bit sorry for Moyes since he left Everton.

Ferguson threw him under the bus completely with the squad he left him and the fact that he didn't enter office until the 1st of July that year. He then had to try and fix a seriously ropey midfield and a defense well past it's sell by date all while going on a pre-season tour on the other side of the planet and to top it all off, he also had an inexperienced CEO only new into the job himself helping him negotiate transfer targets.

He was then led to believe for the whole season that no matter what he would be allowed to build his team into the future and was then mercilessly booted out the door the minute 4th place was gone. Maybe if he knew his arse was on the line he may have taken more risks and actually allowed players to express themselves instead of the ultra safe get it wide ball we saw all year.

He did an excellent job in his first year at Sociedad and at the first sign that the team was in difficulty was booted again before he could stabilise the team again. What allowed him to thrive at Everton was that he was given time to build and build and build over and over again and he bought a side that was teetering on the edge of relegation perennially to competing for fourth consistently. I felt that given time he could have done the same with Sociedad. I guess there just isn't 'time' in modern football.

Now with Sunderland he had an incredibly poor squad and he knew as much himself when taking the job, wasn't given much money to spend and so could only bring in a few journeyman players as well as paying well over the odds for N'dong.

I don't know what it was about this squad but unlike in his days at Everton, he just couldn't inspire any fight in this batch of loanees and journeymen which he did for a whole decade on Merseyside. The fact of the matter is that Sunderland have been on borrowed time in the Premier League since 2013 and it saddens me that Moyes will be looked on in the history books as the one not good enough to keep them up.

jayo26

Mata is back in the squad for Sunday he is in the lowery and jose has called up Scott mctomeny from up the kids team he is a young central midfielder.

beno619

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He had few poor games, especially 2 against Liverpool, so what? That doesn't make his whole season poor.

I've already highlighted a number of his poor performance, if you believe the Pool matches were his only poor performances and otherwise he's performed at a high standard then that's fair enough and your opinion. I disagree.

Cantona's Collars

No home goals scored at all today in the EPL. Let's hope we don't continue the trend tomorrow.

Hococop

zerks wrote: »

No home goals scored at all today in the EPL. Let's hope we don't continue the trend tomorrow.

Said it to a few friends, one of the worst pl soccer Saturday in a long time

caviardreams

jayo26 wrote: »

Mata is back in the squad for Sunday he is in the lowery and jose has called up Scott mctomeny from up the kids team he is a young central midfielder.

Mata obviously has the "special mentality"

Great news! Will be a real bonus to have him (hopefully) available for the EL & Arsenal game even if he doesn't feature at any stage tomorrow.

DM_7

Korat wrote: »

Defoe wouldn't be a bad signing.

Better off bringing Joshua King back.

Cantona's Collars

DM_7 wrote: »

Better off bringing Joshua King back.

Speaking if Joshua,did anybody see the boxing tonight? Decent fight.

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

Speaking if Joshua,did anybody see the boxing tonight? Decent fight.

Cracker, long time since there was a fight like that in the HW division, AJ looked pretty nervous

and I thought Wlad let him back Into the fight after the knock down.. showed some heart to Get the strength for that round at the end

wanderer100

https://twitter.com/bewarmers/status/858447190548557825

Trigger

That picture was after his fight in the O2 against Charles Martin last year before anyone gets confused as to if Jose was in London

caviardreams

astradave wrote: »

That picture was after his fight in the O2 against Charles Martin last year before anyone gets confused as to if Jose was in London

Here was me thinking Chris Smalling must be fit again! :D

jayo26

caviardreams wrote: »

Here was me thinking Chris Smalling must be fit again! :D

That's my party trick comparing them two.

Was some fight tho.

Cantona's Collars

Reports in Spain saying Madrid have agreed a deal to sign De Gea.
Another part of this story is that he wants to be guaranteed as their number one.

sky88

zerks wrote: »

Reports in Spain saying Madrid have agreed a deal to sign De Gea.
Another part of this story is that he wants to be guaranteed as their number one.

Seen another one saying in exchange for James which I think we'd be getting the worst deal if that's the case.

Cantona's Collars

sky88 wrote: »

Seen another one saying in exchange for James which I think we'd be getting the worst deal if that's the case.

Here's an even madder story from Spain, Barca want our Ander.

jayo26

zerks wrote: »

Here's an even madder story from Spain, Barca want our Ander.

Our ander aint going nowhere. I read the other day Madrid were planing to swoop for him and De gea.... Never ever I hope.

sky88

zerks wrote: »

Here's an even madder story from Spain, Barca want our Ander.

Those bas××××× can stay away from our Ander

Lithium93_

United should slap a huge NOT FOR SALE AT ANY PRICE on De Gea & Ander Herrera.