Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

adox

Crimson King wrote: »

100% behind Jose in slating players. Stats don't lie, between them smalling, Jones and Shaw have 42 league games this season. Shocking tbh.

My only critiscm was selling Morgan, today was a day crying out for steel in the middle. Even if it was only a farewell thanks for the memories appearance. I can see the justification in selling him though, it was a good price and Jose doesn't rate him.

I was delighted he as sold. An absolute waste of a squad place.

bucketybuck

pjohnson wrote: »

Hold on Moses couldnt get into Liverpool/Stoke/West Ham team. Contes formation suits him. Highly unlikely he'll start next year.

Grand, you don't rate him. I don't see how that invalidates my original point.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Where is the exaggeration? You think that Courtois, Kante, Hazard and Costa wouldn't star for any team in the world? You don't think that Luis, Cahill, Alonso, Azpiluceta, Willian, Fabregas, Pedro, Matic and Moses aren't very good, experienced pro's in their prime? Where is the exaggeration?

And give up that crap about them being a 10th place side, we all know what happened last season, it doesn't change the reality that Chelsea and their squad is one of the very best in the country.

But United is not one of the very best in the country? Okay so.

pjohnson

bucketybuck wrote: »

Grand, you don't rate him. I don't see how that invalidates my original point.

It shows the exageration.

Trigger

Been out since the end of the United match and just saw City result.. Fuming.... But...

Cantona's Collars

Rooney's heat map,meant to be at 10 so why so much time in the fullback position?

Cookiemunster

Sand wrote: »

But United is not one of the very best in the country? Okay so.

No its not. Utd have a very large squad full of very average players that cost vastly more than they were worth.

bucketybuck

Sand wrote: »

But United is not one of the very best in the country? Okay so.

Don't move the goal posts, you said that United squad should be challenging for the title, that Conte took a 10th place side :rolleyes: to the title so Jose should be doing the same with his squad.

Its a position that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, there is a massive difference in quality bewteen the Chelsea and United teams.

jayo26

zerks wrote: »

Rooney's heat map,meant to be at 10 so why so much time in the fullback position?

Someone spilt a bag of chips down there before game.

bucketybuck

pjohnson wrote: »

It shows the exageration.

It really doesn't.

Sand

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No its not. Utd have a very large squad full of very average players that cost vastly more than they were worth.

So then United need to spend another 400 million to buy 10 players before Mourinho can be expected to muster a title challenge.

Sounds reasonable.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't move the goal posts, you said that United squad should be challenging for the title, that Conte took a 10th place side :rolleyes: to the title so Jose should be doing the same with his squad.

Its a position that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, there is a massive difference in quality bewteen the Chelsea and United teams.

There is one clear consistency though.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't move the goal posts, you said that United squad should be challenging for the title, that Conte took a 10th place side :rolleyes: to the title so Jose should be doing the same with his squad.

Its a position that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, there is a massive difference in quality bewteen the Chelsea and United teams.

There isn't really. Spurs are still in a title challenge and there isn't much between their squad and ours either.

bucketybuck

Sand wrote: »

So then United need to spend another 400 million to buy 10 players before Mourinho can be expected to muster a title challenge.

Sounds reasonable.

Sand wrote: »

There is one clear consistency though.

Sand wrote: »

But United is not one of the very best in the country? Okay so.

So we are into pithy one liner territory then. Grand so. Says it all.

Cookiemunster

Sand wrote: »

So then United need to spend another 400 million to buy 10 players before Mourinho can be expected to muster a title challenge.

Sounds reasonable.

Mourinho can't be blamed for the signings of LVG. Except for maybe Martial (and the jury's still out there) none of them are good enough. Add the likes of Fellaini, Smalling, Jones to that and its obvious our squad, while large, isn't good enough. So yeah, more money needs to be spent and the dead wood has to be moved on before you can expect a title challenge.

The Chelsea squad that finished 10th had won the league the previous season. Utd haven't finished higher than 4th in 4 seasons.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

So we are into pithy one liner territory then. Grand so. Says it all.

No, you've convinced me.

jayo26

We only 1pt off third place lads we are gonna do it.

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

There isn't really. Spurs are still in a title challenge and there isn't much between their squad and ours either.

Spurs squad is better than ours at the moment. The league table doesn't lie

edgecutter

jayo26 wrote: »

We only 1pt off third place lads we are gonna do it.

It's the hope that kills you.

jayo26

edgecutter wrote: »

It's the hope that kills you.

Only of you allow it to effect you.. I enjoy having the interest.

Leroy42

This is working out to be a great weekend of Pool at this rate

deaddonkey15

edgecutter wrote: »

Spurs squad is better than ours at the moment. The league table doesn't lie

It's not they just perform better.

Leroy42

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's not they just perform better.

Football is played on paper or a balance sheet.

Spurs squad is way ahead of Utds at the moment. Its not even a contest.

If you think they are equal then you are basing that either on prices paid or reputations. Neither of which make any difference in relality.

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's not they just perform better.

Ask yourself this, would you take Kane, Delli Alli, Dembele, Son, Dier, Alderwield and Erikson?

Would those players get in our team?

Would they improve us?

The answer is a big fat YES!

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

Football is played on paper or a balance sheet.

Spurs squad is way ahead of Utds at the moment. Its not even a contest.

If you think they are equal then you are basing that either on prices paid or reputations. Neither of which make any difference in relality.

In their lineup right now:

Ben Davies, Kieran Trippier (uncapped for England), Dier, Wanyama, Son. Good players but nothing special there.

Look at their bench:

Kyle Walker, is he really any better than a fit and in form Shaw? I don't think so. Janssen - joke, Sissoko - joke, Kevin Wimmer and Kevin Nkoudou - who the f*ck are they? Dembele is good to be fair.

Seems to me they have 3 excellent players doing the business at one end and 3 excellent players doing the business at the other and we can pretty much match that with players of similar or superior quality:

Lloris / de Gea

Vertonghen and Alderweireld / Bailly and Rojo ( Spurs probably stronger here, but it isn't a poor defence that has United where they are)

Alli / Pogba
Erikssen / Mkhitaryan
Kane / Ibrahimovic.

The difference is most of their star players are delivering.

Add in Rashford, Martial, Mata, Rooney and Carrick on the bench, Herrera - one of the league's best performing midfielders and our squad is more of a match for theirs. I actually think United's squad is stronger but as I said, under performing.

Leroy42

Yeah, I get all that but the actual real world rather than FIFA stats show that Spurs are a better team than we are. No contest. Whether that is due to underperformance or whatever, having "the best squad in the league" is a trophy that even Wenger wouldn't bother going on about.

Iused2likebusts

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's not they just perform better.

The team spurs regularly put out is better than what utd can muster. Its also a much more balanced team.

deaddonkey15

edgecutter wrote: »

Ask yourself this, would you take Kane, Delli Alli, Dembele, Son, Dier, Alderwield and Erikson?

Would those players get in our team?

Would they improve us?

The answer is a big fat YES!

Alderweireld wouldn't have made much difference to United's season. Maybe now as all our defenders are injured but assuming everyone is fit he would make little difference. Not convinced by Son and Dier also.

The rest yes, because as I've said they are performing whereas our star players aren't. Do you think we've seen the best from Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford and even Ibrahimovic this season? Absolutely not.

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, I get all that but the actual real world rather than FIFA stats show that Spurs are a better team than we are. No contest. Whether that is due to underperformance or whatever, having "the best squad in the league" is a trophy that even Wenger wouldn't bother going on about.

Is this addressed to me? Where did I bring up stats? They're a better team because they are performing better. They've had good luck with injuries and haven't played in Europe since December. Don't forget we've already played and beaten them this season. Their squad is not strong, their first team is. Is Janssen and Sissoko the quality of player you think United need for their bench next season?

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/858645963979845632

RobertKK

Arsenal in meltdown.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Arsenal in meltdown.

What's new! AFTV will give me some comfort after such a dreadful result earlier

Cantona's Collars

RobertKK wrote: »

Arsenal in meltdown.

Arsenal arsenalling hard in the space of 90 seconds.

Blud Fam ain't gonna be happy.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Kyle Walker, is he really any better than a fit and in form Shaw? I don't think so.

A perfect example of the extent to which people completely overrate some of Uniteds players.

Luke Shaw has done absolutely nothing for United, not a goddamn thing in 3 years except get injured and get questioned by both his managers. The only way he compares to any other player is if you use vague terms like potential or nebulous FIFA style speed and skill ratings.

And yet here you are claiming he is better than Walker. We might wish it weren't so but Luke Shaw isn't better than Walker by any metric that matters in the real world.

Trigger

bucketybuck wrote: »

A perfect example of the extent to which people completely overrate some of Uniteds players.

Luke Shaw has done absolutely nothing for United, not a goddamn thing in 3 years except get injured and get questioned by both his managers. The only way he compares to any other player is if you use vague terms like potential or nebulous FIFA style speed and skill ratings.

And yet here you are claiming he is better than Walker. We might wish it weren't so but Luke Shaw isn't better than Walker by any metric that matters in the real world.

Exactly, he has all the potential to be better but he has done nothing to show that he is at this moment in time

edgecutter

bucketybuck wrote: »

A perfect example of the extent to which people completely overrate some of Uniteds players.

Luke Shaw has done absolutely nothing for United, not a goddamn thing in 3 years except get injured and get questioned by both his managers. The only way he compares to any other player is if you use vague terms like potential or nebulous FIFA style speed and skill ratings.

And yet here you are claiming he is better than Walker. We might wish it weren't so but Luke Shaw isn't better than Walker by any metric that matters in the real world.

Gotta agree. Shaw has been given too much slack for showing the grand sum of 2 months good football under LVG. We are where we are due to the lack of quality.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

A perfect example of the extent to which people completely overrate some of Uniteds players.

Luke Shaw has done absolutely nothing for United, not a goddamn thing in 3 years except get injured and get questioned by both his managers. The only way he compares to any other player is if you use vague terms like potential or nebulous FIFA style speed and skill ratings.

And yet here you are claiming he is better than Walker. We might wish it weren't so but Luke Shaw isn't better than Walker by any metric that matters in the real world.

I didn't overrate Shaw or claim he was better than Walker, I just questioned whether Walker was any better than Shaw at his best. You might recall Shaw was excellent at the beginning of last season prior to his injury and gave a pretty positive response when Mourinho publicly criticised him recently. He was also quite good for Southampton before he moved to United. Kyle Walker is by no means a special player and until recently, was a bit of a clueless defender. He isn't even playing today. I don't think there is much of a difference between him at his best and the Luke Shaw I remember prior to his injury. We don't know what physical or psychological effects of his injury he is still suffering from either.

Calm down a bit.

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I didn't overrate Shaw, I just questioned whether Walker was any better. You might recall Shaw was excellent at the beginning of last season prior to his injury and gave a pretty positive response when Mourinho publicly criticised him recently. He was also quite good for Southampton before he moved to United. Kyle Walker is by no means a special player and until recently, was a bit of a clueless defender. He isn't even playing today. I don't think there is much of a difference between him at his best and the Luke Shaw I remember prior to his injury. We don't know what physical or psychological effects of his injury he is still suffering from either.

Calm down a bit.

The problem with hoping a player comes good is the 'hope'. We can hope that Shaw comes good, hope that Rooney improves, hope that Smalling and Jones stop being sick notes, but it won't change the fact that this will probably not happen.

If smalling, Jones and Shaw leave next season I won't feel bad at all, because they haven't offered enough to warrant staying (you could question that smalling has, but he has been poor this year).

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I didn't overrate Shaw, I just questioned whether Walker was any better. You might recall Shaw was excellent at the beginning of last season prior to his injury and gave a pretty positive response when Mourinho publicly criticised him recently. He was also quite good for Southampton before he moved to United. Kyle Walker is by no means a special player and until recently, was a bit of a clueless defender. He isn't even playing today. I don't think there is much of a difference between him at his best and the Luke Shaw I remember prior to his injury. We don't know what physical or psychological effects of his injury he is still suffering from either.

You did overrate him, and you still are. Bringing up those 4/5 games from 2 years ago is damning with faint praise and just shows how little he has done since. Gave a "positive response" recently? That doesn't even mean anything.

I tell you one thing, I feel pretty confident in stating that Pochettino wouldn't swap any of his full backs for Luke Shaw.

PhlegmyMoses

I'm bizarrely far more confident playing away to Arsenal and Spurs than I am about home games against bottom feeders this year.

Lots of twists left in this league, even if today was as frustrating as it gets.

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I'm bizarrely far more confident playing away to Arsenal and Spurs than I am about home games against bottom feeders this year.

Lots of twists left in this league, even if today was as frustrating as it gets.

We may as well enjoy those games, to my mind top four was gone before today and so its definitely gone now. Play them with the long term in mind rather than worrying about the results.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

You did overrate him, and you still are. Bringing up those 4/5 games from 2 years ago is damning with faint praise and just shows how little he has done since. Gave a "positive response" recently? That doesn't even mean anything.

A positive response means he played well. Not rocket science.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I tell you one thing, I feel pretty confident in stating that Pochettino wouldn't swap any of his full backs for Luke Shaw.

Not now, no. He wouldn't swap Alli for Paul Pogba either would he?

Trigger

I reckon we will see a few players rested for the Arsenal game with the Europa on either side

deaddonkey15

edgecutter wrote: »

The problem with hoping a player comes good is the 'hope'. We can hope that Shaw comes good, hope that Rooney improves, hope that Smalling and Jones stop being sick notes, but it won't change the fact that this will probably not happen.

If smalling, Jones and Shaw leave next season I won't feel bad at all, because they haven't offered enough to warrant staying (you could question that smalling has, but he has been poor this year).

I agree with that. But if people are going to start comparing squads then I think the unspoken assumption is the players are in these squads are assumed to be fit and in form. We have a strong squad, but too many players are under performing and we're plagued with injuries. Spurs have, in my opinion, a weaker squad but a strong first team. They're in form and relatively injury free with less games played. That's why they are where they are and we are where we are.

pjohnson

bucketybuck wrote: »

You did overrate him, and you still are. Bringing up those 4/5 games from 2 years ago is damning with faint praise and just shows how little he has done since. Gave a "positive response" recently? That doesn't even mean anything.

I tell you one thing, I feel pretty confident in stating that Pochettino wouldn't swap any of his full backs for Luke Shaw.

I wouldnt take Walker over Valencia anyway.

Robson99

Utd should be all out to get Kane this summer although highly unlikely Levy will sell any of that team. Pochetinno is a top class manager and with one or two additions to that team they will go very very close again next year

deaddonkey15

Robson99 wrote: »

Utd should be all out to get Kane this summer although highly unlikely Levy will sell any of that team. Pochetinno is a top class manager and with one or two additions to that team they will go very very close again next year

Kane or Walker I reckon.

posturingpat

Robson99 wrote: »

Utd should be all out to get Kane this summer although highly unlikely Levy will sell any of that team. Pochetinno is a top class manager and with one or two additions to that team they will go very very close again next year

For the money they'd be looking for Kane we'd be as well going for Lewandowski or Higuain.

Robson99

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Kane or Walker I reckon.

Full back the least of our worries IMO. Valencia one of our best players this season.
Alderweireld would be alright though

Lord TSC

Robson99 wrote: »

Utd should be all out to get Kane this summer although highly unlikely Levy will sell any of that team. Pochetinno is a top class manager and with one or two additions to that team they will go very very close again next year

Why would Kane come near us? He'll cost 100-120m too.