Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

Korat wrote: »

That sounds like you just hate Mourinho. This season has been a huge improvement on the last 3 years since Fergie left. The team creates lots of chances but just isn't finishing them.

Paint in what ever way you like about me and Jose to be honest, neither of us will lose sleep over it

But I think you are away with the fairies if you think this season has been an improvement. We were challenging for the title at a point under Van Gaal, and were on for top 4 until West Ham away when we ****ed it.

I think we can fool ourselves thinking the football is better, and in parts of course it is. But the results and the points are what matters at the end of the day to me, and I don't see any improvements being made. Van Gaal was actually much stronger in the "bigger" games and was much more tactically shrewd then what I;ve seen of Jose so far.

At least Van Gaal had some resemblance of a plan. I've no idea what this team is doing, what so ever. And I like to think I can typically make out what is happening when I'm watching a game.

I think "the team not finishing chances" is a lame excuse really. It's a problem happening all season, and his only solution is to publicly lambast the players involved. They are probably ****ting bricks when they get through on goal.

Jayop

TheDoc wrote: »

That should be the case. Our CB's just feel like they are made of glass the last three seasons.

Does any team really carry more then 4 first team CB's? I'd struggle to name 3rd and 4th choice CB's at Real, Barca and Bayern for example.

I can see logic in dumping Smalling and Jones and getting in a new high quality one

TBF Bailly hasn't been injured much. AFCON doesn't happen too often and that was why we missed him this season.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Hyperbole.

You are postig this after a match you havent seen after your mates were venting on whatsapp

I made one reference to the match specifically, am I wrong about my assumption at how it went?

My general post is reflecting the my mood for the general season, which you well know at this stage.

Jayop

domrush wrote: »

Come on now.

I don't think that's too outlandish a statement. You have Pogba who is top class, been a bit of a let down this year but I have absolute faith in him and Herrera who's already brilliant. Adding another top midfielder would without doubt put us in the top bracket of midfields. That's not to say we'd be the best, but one of the top few.

Would there be a better midfield in the premier league? I don't think so.

Who would you say is the top 3/4 midfields in the world now? Literally just talking about the middle 2/3 players and not their wingers.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Something that is easily forgotten by some people and ignored by others.

And some just didn't find it as tragic as others.

I don't know how old Korat is, but sure there was dreadful football under Van Gaal, as there was under Moyes, as there has been under Mourinho too. Only because we were spoiled with Ferguson. And even then, he oversaw some **** teams and poor performances also.

Always said Van Gaal will be looked differently through hindsight, just didn't realise some stuff would crop up so quickly to be honest.

TheDoc

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Not fully sold on Mourinho. I accept he's the best choice for us at this time but his theatrics drove me nuts at Chelsea and I can't stand that carry on at Utd. It does appear that he's toned it down a little in the second half of the season so I have warmed a little towards him.

Have wondered if someone had a word in his ear about the referee situation or did he just finally cop himself on. He is being exceptionally polite to referees lately and bigging up their performances.

If only he could try that with our attacking players : /

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

Id happily petition the club to withdraw from the Europa League next season if we end up in it. It has ruined us this year like it does every other team every year. Just play Nicky Butts team in it until the knockout stages and if they somehow get there then take it serious. I actually think we would be lucky to reach the final this year and win it. It's all starting to fall apart right when we need it to hold together.

I just don't see the point in bashing Jose yet as he might irritate people with his complaining but he is a serial winner and I have no idea who we could possibly replace him with if he leaves us at the end of next year. Diego Simeone is the only high profile succesful manager not already in the Premier League and I've my doubts anyone would warm to his style of football or his antics.

Also..... In a world of millionaire entitled footballers where there is loads of talk of player power pushing managers out and downing tools to make managers lose their job, I'm glad Jose is calling out players about anything he sees fit. Don't care how many of them have their feelings hurt, they can leave if they don't like it. Jose is trying to set standards at the absolute highest and if you want to stay off his hit list then perform.

It's probably that line of thinking that needs to change in relation to managers and management. Either the club takes the lead and direction, and acquires managers fitting to what they outline as their values and goals, or we get in big high profile managers and go through squad upheavel every X years.

Our transfer business the last three seasons has been excellent imo. No player arrived where I went "ugh what?". All good players. That some have not worked out, **** happens. But managers buy players with whatever their idea or plan is.

Mourinho has come in to take over a Van Gaal squad, a squad build completely at odds with his own. So I sympathise there, to a point. It's not like he was handed a bag of rubbish, there is serious quality and potential in our squad that Van Gaal obviously thought he would unlock. Wether Jose can do it ? No idea, I guess the evidence would suggest he won't, so his own squad needs to be built.

My only issue with Jose calling players out is that it's historically, not transparent and tends to be his own warped view, and I'd probably more openly accept his critique of players, if he was more forthcoming about his own shortcomings, and not trotting out excuses every week.

I am actually sitting a back with genuine interest at how quickly some people have turned on some of our players, based on a comment from our manager, a manager with a history of basically being a pathological liar in an attempt to spur reactions.

Billy86

domrush wrote: »

Come on now.

I don't see what the issue there is? Herrera is an absolutely class midfielder while Verratti some might argue is the best in the world, at least at what he does, and both are very tidy and consistent/concentrated which as we saw at Juve can bring the absolute best out of Pogba. All three also compliment each other very well.

Is it just that you don't feel Verratti or Herrera have it in them to be in one of the best midfields around?

*Was just talking about central midfields and not the wide areas to clarify (re jayops post) - personally I'd consider wide players these days to be closer to forwards than wingers, most often.

domrush

Jayop wrote: »

I don't think that's too outlandish a statement. You have Pogba who is top class, been a bit of a let down this year but I have absolute faith in him and Herrera who's already brilliant. Adding another top midfielder would without doubt put us in the top bracket of midfields. That's not to say we'd be the best, but one of the top few.

Would there be a better midfield in the premier league? I don't think so.

Who would you say is the top 3/4 midfields in the world now? Literally just talking about the middle 2/3 players and not their wingers.

I highly doubt any argument I could put forward would change your mind but when Pogba and Herrera have registered 5 goals and 9 assists between them over an entire season I don't think the addition of a DM would make it one of the very best midfield trios in the world. Just my opinion.

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

TBF Bailly hasn't been injured much. AFCON doesn't happen too often and that was why we missed him this season.

Ah I'm not singling anyone out there, just feels we have had mad CB issues the last three seasons.

Which is weird when I harp back there was rarely a time under Fergie we had these sort of defensive injury woes. I'm sure there was times granted.

It's just a position where I guess you don't expect to get the type of injuries our lads always get. It's hardly the most physically demanding in terms of output on the pitch.

Cantona's Collars

Jones was pictured arriving at Carrington this morning but was in the passenger seat.Still too injured to drive;)

Pogba is training which is good.

beakerjoe

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't see what the issue there is? Herrera is an absolutely class midfielder while Verratti some might argue is the best in the world, at least at what he does, and both are very tidy and consistent/concentrated which as we saw at Juve can bring the absolute best out of Pogba. All three also compliment each other very well.

Is it just that you don't feel Verratti or Herrera have it in them to be in one of the best midfields around?

*Was just talking about central midfields and not the wide areas to clarify (re jayops post) - personally I'd consider wide players these days to be closer to forwards than wingers, most often.

Listen, I like Herrera, hes been a solid performer this year, no doubt, but he isnt a world beater in my eyes.

And it says a lot about Pogba that he needs other people to bring out the best in him (in your opinion). Id rather see him step up and bring the best out of other players considering his price tag.

Pogba for me has under performed. He hasnt been terrible IMO and he has shown flashes of brilliance, but he needs to up his game or be considered a failure IMO.

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

That should be the case. Our CB's just feel like they are made of glass the last three seasons.

Does any team really carry more then 4 first team CB's? I'd struggle to name 3rd and 4th choice CB's at Real, Barca and Bayern for example.

I can see logic in dumping Smalling and Jones and getting in a new high quality one

We've always needed around 5 CB's.

Evans, Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea and Brown for example.

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah I'm not singling anyone out there, just feels we have had mad CB issues the last three seasons.

Which is weird when I harp back there was rarely a time under Fergie we had these sort of defensive injury woes. I'm sure there was times granted.

It's just a position where I guess you don't expect to get the type of injuries our lads always get. It's hardly the most physically demanding in terms of output on the pitch.

Ah now (was it against Wigan/West Brom??) Fergie ended up with Park Ji Sung, Darren Fletcher, Patrice Evra and Michael Carrick in defence

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

I don't think that's too outlandish a statement. You have Pogba who is top class, been a bit of a let down this year but I have absolute faith in him and Herrera who's already brilliant. Adding another top midfielder would without doubt put us in the top bracket of midfields. That's not to say we'd be the best, but one of the top few.

Would there be a better midfield in the premier league? I don't think so.

Who would you say is the top 3/4 midfields in the world now? Literally just talking about the middle 2/3 players and not their wingers.

I think we should have learned from VanPersie/Falcao/Rooney that what looks amazing on paper always doesn't come to pass

I won't shake the feeling Jose has a pref for a dynamic, muscle, engine DM that is more "destroyer"(hate that phrase) then say the Carrick mould. I always feel games differ in terms of what you might need. For the majority of our games, I think the Carrick style is much preferred. Someone who can easily step forward a few yards and be an asset in possession or have a range of passing as opposed to say a Fellaini style, which feels a waste of a shirt in certain games where we are going to dominate a game.

Personally for me the Spurs midfield is the best in the league. With Dier, Dembele and Wanyama they have such variance but just a menace. That is a throwback to the Jose Chelsea MK1 midfield trio where it was just a really daunting prospect physically. Add into the mix someone with Dembele's ball skills and the way they provide the platform for the attacking players, it's by far the best in the league for me in terms of all rounded.

Chelsea's is a good second with Matic and Kante but I think it has a somewhat specific job that is does exceptionally well, but just lacks in the all rounder parts.

I don't think our midfield is that far off. I'm convinced Pogba will be an animal. Herrera I think has stepped up a level. Like a significant level. He is probably just an all round good midfielder that shouldn't be pigeon holed. Hard pushed to see past him as a Jose captain next season.

Carrick is end of the road for me. Blind I just need to accept is a defender now, even though I thought he was a lovely CM. Fellaini I just don't know what to do with. One min I think he would be a good DM next I think he gives great presence alongside Pogba. Schneiderlan being sold was a travesty.

How many CM's do you go into a season with? I think a DM is likely from Jose, but there is probably an argument to also get another. Can't shake a midfield picture in my head of Pogba alongside Barkley with Herrera sitting deep. It's FootBall Manager stuff, but it just feels right to me.

I'm just getting into the mindset watching this season and last, that we really only need a specialist or particular style of DM for certain games, and they are the "big games". Outside of those, you're Swansea at home etc., I don't see why we can't utilise the likes of a Hererra or Blind in a holding role, who can positively add to the attack and possesion.

adox

TheDoc wrote: »

I made one reference to the match specifically, am I wrong about my assumption at how it went?

Thats kind of irrelevant to the point I made.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

And some just didn't find it as tragic as others.

Yeah, you think we should have kept Van Gaal and that things weren't all that bad. And now you think Mourinho has been pathetic and that things are just terrible.

Those are opinions that I wouldn't even waste my time debating.

Billy86

beakerjoe wrote: »

Listen, I like Herrera, hes been a solid performer this year, no doubt, but he isnt a world beater in my eyes.

And it says a lot about Pogba that he needs other people to bring out the best in him (in your opinion). Id rather see him step up and bring the best out of other players considering his price tag.

Pogba for me has under performed. He hasnt been terrible IMO and he has shown flashes of brilliance, but he needs to up his game or be considered a failure IMO.

Well he looked great with Pirlo and Vidal around him, but not so much here - so clearly they did bring the best out of him. I would definitely like for him to be taking over on his own but despite the price tag, that's not necessarily the type of player he is at this point in his career. The marketing side of things with him pays off a lot of the transfer, but for people just looking at the figure and expecting him to be a particular type of player off the bat because of that, it's unfortunately going to result in a let down. Having only gone 24 a few weeks ago, I doubt we'll be seeing that player for another year or so at least, just my opinion.

I already said I don't consider Herrera to be on the level of someone like Vidal by the way, but if he nails down the starting role next year like he has the second half of this season we'll be getting a lot people suddenly saying they were raging he wasn't starting nearly every game since we signed him. He's a hell of a player that wouldn't look out of place in just about midfield in the world.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Thats kind of irrelevant to the point I made.

Thought you were insinuating I was freaking out over the match I didn't see. I'm just freaking out over the season

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yeah, you think we should have kept Van Gaal and that things weren't all that bad. And now you think Mourinho has been pathetic and that things are just terrible.

Those are opinions that I wouldn't even waste my time debating.

I conceded Van Gaal had to leave as the situation was untenable. Not sure if I will feel the same looking back though.

I havn't said things are terrible, I'm saying things arn't better where it matters. And I'm not buying we are playing some incredible football. 10 draws at home does not back that up, whatever way you want to dress it.

But we don't have to get into it if you don't like :x

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

I conceded Van Gaal had to leave as the situation was untenable. Not sure if I will feel the same looking back though.

I havn't said things are terrible, I'm saying things arn't better where it matters. And I'm not buying we are playing some incredible football. 10 draws at home does not back that up, whatever way you want to dress it.

But we don't have to get into it if you don't like :x

Nobody said we are.

adox

TheDoc wrote: »

Thought you were insinuating I was freaking out over the match I didn't see. I'm just freaking out over the season

Well yes i was to a point. You were using it as further proof of your opinion.

I also found it bizarre that you said you were glad you didnt watch it(because your mates said it was awful) I mean, and I know its a bit rich coming from someone typing on a keyboard in Ireland and who has watched all the games on telly but, it does smack a bit of fair weather supporter if thats your attitude.

Its also very weird that you were relatively happy with Van Gaal and have had your mind made up from the get go about Jose. I mean its just incredible that you are so upset with the football that Utd are currently playing(when you bother to watch:p) yet at the same time were kind of ok with the absolute drivel that Van Gaal served up. its just not a consistent or considered view imo.

You are also painting a picture that no one on here is asking questions of Jose or hes been given an easy ride, where there has been plenty of discussion about him, his squad management etc etc.

I mean of course I have no problem with you holding an opposing or different view point than mine but when posted after a game you didnt watch(and were glad you didnt watch)and then to come out with that over the top post that comes across as patting yourself on the back while being mystified that other posters dont see or comment on the whole thing then yes it does come across as hyperbole and is hard to take seriously.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Nobody said we are.

The way some people are going on it feels like that is the belief. Are we playing better? Sure, in large parts. But still infuriatingly ineffective in other parts, as was last season.

beakerjoe

TheDoc wrote: »

The way some people are going on it feels like that is the belief. Are we playing better? Sure, in large parts. But still infuriatingly ineffective in other parts, as was last season.

I think we have improved, I dont recall anyone saying we have turned into the best team in the league or anything.

The general consensus from posters on here seems to me that there has been an improvement. I for one think we are a more entertaining team to watch. There is a whole lot of room for improvement, but things are generally going in the right direction over all.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Well yes i was to a point. You were using it as further proof of your opinion.

Yes, in a somewhat rhetorical fashion as I'd read match reports. So yeah it was a point to my opinion of the team being clueless in attack.

I also found it bizarre that you said you were glad you didnt watch it(because your mates said it was awful) I mean, and I know its a bit rich coming from someone typing on a keyboard in Ireland and who has watched all the games on telly but, it does smack a bit of fair weather supporter if thats your attitude.

Really...you are going to paint me in that light? For real?
Probably just missed the part where I said I just moved house and my stuff isn't hooked up yet right?

Its also very weird that you were relatively happy with Van Gaal and have had your mind made up from the get go about Jose.

Go back to the start of season (appreciate if you dont) and you will probably find the same sort of core issues I speak about today, but being a lot more hyped and excited at the prospect.

Go back last season, and you will see I wasn't happy with Van Gaal towards the end. Would I have liked him to get more time to see what he could do with the squad he was building? Sure, but fully appreciated there was significant issues.

I mean its just incredible that you are so upset with the football that Utd are currently playing(when you bother to watch:p) yet at the same time were kind of ok with the absolute drivel that Van Gaal served up. its just not a consistent or considered view imo.

You will find I was just as harsh and frustrated during the Van Gaal era when the team would drop sloppy points when opportunities were presented to us, all the way until West Ham away. I was very much OK with what Van Gaal was trying to achieve, and I was pretty alright with some of the good results he got against rivals to be fair.

You are also painting a picture that no one on here is asking questions of Jose or hes been given an easy ride, where there has been plenty of discussion about him, his squad management etc etc.

And for some reason when I come to the party, I get the sort of posts you have just made. He is getting an easy ride. People are taking him at face value about what he says, and basically just entirely forgetting the manager he is. We shouldn't, we have watched from the outside for a decade and he hasn't changed that much. At end of season perhaps there will be a different view, but the general narrative here, there is too much "Cult of Mourinho". He knows what he is doing, how dare you question what he is doing, you are just anti-mourinho. The critique is coming somewhat stronger now, but there is still too many people making excuses.

I mean of course I have no problem with you holding an opposing or different view point than mine but when posted after a game you didnt watch(and were glad you didnt watch)

At borderline me telling you to **** off now. You have thought you got a nice little burn with me saying I didn't watch the match, after posting why, and glad obviously. A result like that would have me fowl for a portion.

and then to come out with that over the top post that comes across as patting yourself on the back while being mystified that other posters dont see or comment on the whole thing then yes it does come across as hyperbole and is hard to take seriously.

I felt the post was warranted as seeing more excuses from Jose after the game, and reading some of the tired old defences for the teams results, which ultimately he is culpable for. This is a problem smacking him in the face since the early weeks in the season, and I seem to be in the minority massively concerned that the only solution a manager of his calibre has, is slamming the players in public looking for a reaction.

By all means, if the game was us being massively unlucky, Fabianski having a stormer then I shouldn't have assumed. Or as I said in my post, was I safe in the knowledge, when I read the result, as to how the game went? Yeah...transpires I was.

What was more surprising was seeing match reports that we were lucky to get a point.

Anyway, look forward to you now painting me as a fair weather fan to further water down my posts or opinions

TheDoc

beakerjoe wrote: »

I think we have improved, I dont recall anyone saying we have turned into the best team in the league or anything.

The general consensus from posters on here seems to me that there has been an improvement. I for one think we are a more entertaining team to watch. There is a whole lot of room for improvement, but things are generally going in the right direction over all.

That is probably the part I'm talking about. Feel I need a lot more convincing that this is the case. Both with the squad decisions being taken and also the performances and results. They are not independent, they are linked. While you can graft wins here and there, typically if you play well and perform well, you will win, with a team at our level.

But that is likely coming from me buying into WAYYYYYY too many false dawns under Van Gaal, and even this team, that I'm waiting for a consistent run before claiming "yeah, this is getting better".

beakerjoe

TheDoc wrote: »

That is probably the part I'm talking about. Feel I need a lot more convincing that this is the case. Both with the squad decisions being taken and also the performances and results. They are not independent, they are linked. While you can graft wins here and there, typically if you play well and perform well, you will win, with a team at our level.

But that is likely coming from me buying into WAYYYYYY too many false dawns under Van Gaal, and even this team, that I'm waiting for a consistent run before claiming "yeah, this is getting better".

We are 1 point away from our points total last year with 4 games to go. We have scored more goals this year and conceded much less. We have already won a domestic trophy and still in contention for a European trophy which may result in Champions League Football. While not as exciting as Id like it, the football played is a lot more attractive than last season. All 4 summer signings have improved the team (though Im not happy with the money paid for pogba considering his performance return). We are a hard to beat team.

Overall Im happy that we are going in the right direction.

The_Kew_Tour

DDG is leaving in the summer and while of course I be gutted it wont be the huge loss it would have been just 10 months ago or last few seasons.

We have become very structured and don't concede goals now. When we get 2 goals its almost certain we win. But of course getting to 2 goals is the major problem this season

beakerjoe

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

DDG is leaving in the summer and while of course I be gutted it wont be the huge lose it would have been just 10 months ago or last few seasons.

We have become very structured and don't concede goals now. When we get 2 goals its almost certain we win. But of course getting to 2 goals is the major problem this season

It my opinion that DDG plays a huge part in our defense being so tight. Sometime she can be the difference between a win and a loss. No matter if its this year or 2 years ago, hes hard to replace as he is IMO the best in the world.

The_Kew_Tour

beakerjoe wrote: »

It my opinion that DDG plays a huge part in our defense being so tight. Sometime she can be teh difference between a win and a loss. No matter if its this year or 2 years ago, hes hard to replace as he is IMO the best in the world.

Agree, and no matter who we get really its going be lesser player, but I dont think its the fear like it was losing him couple seasons back would have been

Billy86

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

DDG is leaving in the summer and while of course I be gutted it wont be the huge loss it would have been just 10 months ago or last few seasons.

We have become very structured and don't concede goals now. When we get 2 goals its almost certain we win. But of course getting to 2 goals is the major problem this season

To be fair DDG has been leaving the last 3 summers in a row, though you are right about how equipped we are to handle it vs other years.

The_Kew_Tour

Billy86 wrote: »

To be fair DDG has been leaving the last 3 summers in a row, though you are right about how equipped we are to handle it vs other years.

Only one summer or should we say deadline day few seasons ago it was close. He never looked like leaving last season

Jayop

I'm not convinced that the DeGea stories are anything more than an easy thing for the papers to write. Sure he may well go but I've seen nothing to make me think it's true yet.

Lithium93_

De Gea will still be a Manchester United player come the end of the summer window in September.

The_Kew_Tour

Jayop wrote: »

I'm not convinced that the DeGea stories are anything more than an easy thing for the papers to write. Sure he may well go but I've seen nothing to make me think it's true yet.

Be delighted if your right and ya can quote me in September too, but would not get my hopes up.

Never know though

adox

TheDoc wrote: »

Anyway, look forward to you now painting me as a fair weather fan to further water down my posts or opinions

Ha. It was a comment at that start in reply to your "I'm glad I didn't watch it". I did read that you were moving house. Loads of people miss games as real life gets in the way. That wasn't my point at all.

And a serious lol at trying to paint you as a fair weather fan to water down your posts or opinions. I mean that's just ludicrous and you are reading too much into my comment.

Your posts, as the one I originally quoted come across as hysterical over reactions, heavy in words but smattered with hyperbole. Plus you are doing many posters on here a disservice when you continuesly say they are giving Jose an easy ride and your choice of language just sounds ludicrous condescending nonsense to me. I mean "the cult of Jose" How patronising.

Jayop

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Be delighted if your right and ya can quote me in September too, but would not get my hopes up.

Never know though

Yeah it really could go either way, just that there's been nothing close to a concrete report that he's going and linking us to other keepers especially Kasper is just easy to write.

yabadabado

Anyone else think Jose will sign a LB in the summer?
Shaw is extremely talented but has failed to get any sort of regular games this season.
With his latest injury may he have played his last game for United?
I would be disappointed to see him go wouldn't surprise me at all.

adox

yabadabado wrote: »

Anyone else think Jose will sign a LB in the summer?
Shaw is extremely talented but has failed to get any sort of regular games this season.
With his latest injury may he have played his last game for United?
I would be disappointed to see him go wouldn't surprise me at all.

I'd say it's more likely than not. You would think Jose doesn't rate Shaw. The season is more or less finished now and Shaw still didn't cement a place in the team. He got some criticism from Van Gaal too so you would have to ask questions about his attitude.

I don't think Jose will wait around for him and if a replacement becomes available he will buy him and ship Shaw out.

beakerjoe

yabadabado wrote: »

Anyone else think Jose will sign a LB in the summer?
Shaw is extremely talented but has failed to get any sort of regular games this season.
With his latest injury may he have played his last game for United?
I would be disappointed to see him go wouldn't surprise me at all.

100 percent Id say since Shaw is out until October potentially.

adox

beakerjoe wrote: »

100 percent Id say since Shaw is out until October potentially.

Wow that long?

jayo26

adox wrote: »

Wow that long?

Ankle ligaments I think I read? That could be six months.

yabadabado

beakerjoe wrote: »

100 percent Id say since Shaw is out until October potentially.

If it's that long , then that would probably force Jose's hand.I doubt he wants to go into another season without a recognised LB.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

DDG is leaving in the summer and while of course I be gutted it wont be the huge lose it would have been just 10 months ago or last few seasons.

We have become very structured and don't concede goals now. When we get 2 goals its almost certain we win. But of course getting to 2 goals is the major problem this season

Whether DDG leaves or not, I think the idea that we don't need a world-class keeper because the defence is solid is flawed. For one, give that two games in close proximity to each other where our defence and/or sub-par keeper f*ck up and concede a silly, detrimental goal. That idea will change quickly.

More than that though, United's most successful teams of the last 25 years have had a world-class keeper between the sticks. Yes, the most successful teams also featured a strong CB pairing and/or backline on front of that keeper, but they are all part of the one unit and neither are disposable in what we're looking for the club to achieve IMO.

The post Schmeichel years of Barthez, Bosnich, Taibi, Carroll, Ricardo and Howard are still fresh enough in my mind to bring on some dread at the thoughts of the club going on a similar merry-go-round again.

Just like I've never been content with an unsettled, shaky defence in front of a wall-like DDG (before Jose improved it), I wouldn't be content to see the reverse of that with an 'only decent' keeper propping up a wall-like, solid defence. No matter how much we dominate teams or control possession, the opposition will still get a decent chance or two to score in the majority of games we play.

Our backline and defensive record is strong at the moment, but I wonder how much of that is helped by the fact that all of these different defensive permutations have confidence in a reliable, confident, top goalkeeper backing them up.

You make a good point Kew about how the main problem at the moment isn't conceding goals, it's scoring goals. I agree, but I don't think we should focus all of the attention on that one problem and let other important areas weaken in the meantime. I think the 'Once the backline is strong, the keeper doesn't have to be a worldie' isn't durable enough, and can easily fall apart with a few poor defensive performances or when that strong backline becomes stricken with injuries.

We can't have a world-class player in every position and we don't need that for what we want to achieve, but with this club I strongly feel that we need the best goalkeeper we can get for our #1 as the root of defensive stability. That stability has been key to past successes, and I reckon vital for any future ones the club seek.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again that night of the transfer feck up by madrid for DeGea, was one if not my favorite ever time on here. Must go look back at it for the lols. From :mad: - - - - :pac:

Bleating Lamb

What is the story with Phil Jones toe injury?

Surely he should be back close to fitness at this stage?

adox

Deleted User wrote: »

Ive said it before and I'll say it again that night of the transfer feck up by madrid for DeGea, was one if not my favorite ever time on here. Must go look back at it for the lols. From :mad: - - - - :pac:

It was like we had slipped into an alternative reality.

Nice headed goal from CR7!

Lithium93_

Deleted User wrote: »

Ive said it before and I'll say it again that night of the transfer feck up by madrid for DeGea, was one if not my favorite ever time on here. Must go look back at it for the lols. From :mad: - - - - :pac:

Thank god for that Fax machine

Sand

TheDoc wrote: »

I am actually sitting a back with genuine interest at how quickly some people have turned on some of our players, based on a comment from our manager, a manager with a history of basically being a pathological liar in an attempt to spur reactions.

Yes, I have found this odd. Mourinho's view is gospel. Shaw. Attitude. Smalling. Coward. Jones. Coward. Martial. Attitude. Mkhitaryan. Not good enough. It passed peak bull**** with the Jones comments. If ever there was a player who has demonstrated his bravery and willingness to put himself on the line, its Jones. But Mourinho says he's a coward, not willing to play and suddenly, with no other evidence that's the accepted narrative. Its very odd to watch occur.

Take Smalling and Jones for example and their injury situation. Man United have a highly paid, highly qualified medical staff. Now either the medical advice is Smalling and Jones are not ready to play, or the advice is Smalling and Jones are ready to play. If its the former, Smalling and Jones are following the advice of doctors who know a lot more about injury and player recovery than Mourinho or any fan. If its the latter, if they are cleared fit to play but are refusing to play then its contract breach and Mourinho should be fining them for refusing to train or play.

My money is that its the former, and Mourinho is going over the advice of his medical team (not the first time) to try and publicly bully two players into coming back too soon. Its cowardly by Mourinho because he knows Smalling and Jones cant defend themselves publicly. If they did, suddenly they're malcontents and dissidents. So they have sit silently and listen to digs with no basis in reality.

beakerjoe wrote: »

We are 1 point away from our points total last year with 4 games to go. We have scored more goals this year and conceded much less. We have already won a domestic trophy and still in contention for a European trophy which may result in Champions League Football. While not as exciting as Id like it, the football played is a lot more attractive than last season. All 4 summer signings have improved the team (though Im not happy with the money paid for pogba considering his performance return). We are a hard to beat team.

Overall Im happy that we are going in the right direction.

LVGs football was very pretty, it just wasn't very effective at winning enough games. To put some numbers on the advance, 2017 United at +6 points after 34 games, and +14 goal difference over 2016 United. That's basically an improvement of one extra point every 5.5 games, and an extra goal scored every 3.75 games. Its an underwhelming return for one of the best managers in the world, and a hefty amount spent. The relative return may even decline by the end of the season given the games coming up.

Even watching the games, yes, I think United are better to watch. More exactly Pogba makes United better to watch as for all his faults, he is constantly trying to make things happen and injecting some badly needed urgency. I have no concerns about him. That said, I've watched other games this season where the team has looked demotivated, unprepared and have toiled through games.

Hopefully what we are seeing is Mourinho focusing on defensive work first (which has improved, from what was already a tough defence) and maybe next season goals will be added. But a single striker wont solve the problem. Zlatan has provided PL 17 goals this season. A like for like swap will hopefully deliver 20-25. The problem is the team overall is failing to chip in with more.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

We have become very structured and don't concede goals now. When we get 2 goals its almost certain we win. But of course getting to 2 goals is the major problem this season

That's basically the same problem as last season though. Defensively sound, very structured, very hard to score against, not scoring enough goals.