Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

The Fabregas story sounds like todays dart in a random journalists office hit his name and United.

Still, what was the relationship like between him and Jose last year? My memories is that he was one of the ones who stopped playing for him?

If we go after any Chelsea player, I'd imagine Willian would be the more likely...

Wasn't Fabregas, Costa and Hazard labelled the rats?

I don't know about Fabregas. Incredible talent and a great player, but has that second half of the season slump. Clearly has some issue with his stamina or fitness where he can't maintain a high standard for an entire season.

I don't think I'd be too hyped about signing him as I was say a few years ago.

Kerrydude1981

Phil Jones and Chris Smalling back in training with the squad

In sumo wrestling suits I hope

Cookiemunster

Some positive news (hopefully).

https://twitter.com/RobDawsonESPN/status/859715661022584832

Giggsy11

Great to see players coming back from injuries. Pogba, Bailly, Smalling, Jones is a big boost to the team along with Mata who came back few days ago.

StringerBell

The only problem is with fatigue already a factor, coming back from injury and pushing to get back ahead of schedule can lead to further injuries.

jayo26

StringerBell wrote: »

The only problem is with fatigue already a factor, coming back from injury and pushing to get back ahead of schedule can lead to further injuries.

If it's just Jones and Smalling pushing let them push it's all or nothing now maximum six games left they are not injuries as a result if fatigue anyway they haven't played 20 games each so should be someway fresh fatigue wise as long as they are over the knocks.

If they can stay fit for the next five ir six games it would be massive boost to end of season.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/squawka/status/859670360475578368

The most tactically important players fornhe top 6 teams according to Squawka.

For United it is Herrera, whom they say helped unleash Pogba.
For Spurs, it it Eric Dier, whom we have been linked with.

Great news on the Injury front
More positive about Thursday now

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

If it's just Jones and Smalling pushing let them push it's all or nothing now maximum six games left they are not injuries as a result if fatigue anyway they haven't played 20 games each so should be someway fresh fatigue wise as long as they are over the knocks.

If they can stay fit for the next five ir six games it would be massive boost to end of season.

Not that it would be a factor now, but at the time fatigue was almost certainly a contributing factor to Jones' injury. He played a hectic run of games during the middle of the season after being out for a long time before that.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

The way some people are going on it feels like that is the belief.

No it doesn't. Nobody has acted like we are playing incredible football. You are blatantly making this up.

TheDoc wrote: »

Are we playing better? Sure, in large parts. But still infuriatingly ineffective in other parts, as was last season.

This sounds reasonable, but this different to what you have been saying. It's the times when you claim we aren't improved over last season and that we were wrong to sack LVG that are just off the wall. And you say that stuff a fair bit.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Not that it would be a factor now, but at the time fatigue was almost certainly a contributing factor to Jones' injury. He played a hectic run of games during the middle of the season after being out for a long time before that.

Ok I don't wanna go into a big back and fort but is a broken toe as a result if fatigue? He was kicked by Smalling in English training it could happen and would happen to Jones in pre season training?

I'm no physiotherapist or doctor but most of fatigue injuries would be muscles and the likes of hardley think a run of games weakened his big toe..

ericzeking

Never has there been so much talk about player fatigue as there has been about United this season.

Talk about brainwashing.

The size of the squad, the money spent and the fact that we've hardly met a half decent opponent in the EL negate fatigue as an excuse for anything really.

If fatigue is an issue, it's the managers fault for not adequately rotating the players he has.

DARK-KNIGHT

anyone else think a fabregas hererra and pogba 3 in midfield could work well?

jayo26

ericzeking wrote: »

Never has there been so much talk about player fatigue as there has been about United this season.

Talk about brainwashing.

The size of the squad, the money spent and the fact that we've hardly met a half decent opponent in the EL negate fatigue as an excuse for anything really.

If fatigue is an issue, it's the managers fault for not adequately rotating the players he has.

I think fatigue is an issue with some players and i do Think it's one area the jose has managed to get wrong.

How much we spent isn't really something to be thrown about as to we shouldn't have fatigued players we still can only have same size squad as anyone else the value of the players in the squad shouldn't say they should not suffer from fatigue.

You can't go brining in another seven players over the summer just to have a bigger squad you need balance and continuity to the squad too.

If jose trusted a few players like tfm and tuanzebe in a few games we were comfortable in it Would if made a difference.

bmcc10

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

anyone else think a fabregas hererra and pogba 3 in midfield could work well?

Nope fabregas would be an awful signing

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Ok I don't wanna go into a big back and fort but is a broken toe as a result if fatigue? He was kicked by Smalling in English training it could happen and would happen to Jones in pre season training?

I'm no physiotherapist or doctor but most of fatigue injuries would be muscles and the likes of hardley think a run of games weakened his big toe..

Yes fatigue can result in broken bones. It's not a case of the bone getting tired that I'm talking about. Fatigue leads to a loss of strength and flexibility of muscles and other soft tissue, and a loss of balance and proprioception. These things then lead to the body being put in more awkward positions and the soft tissue failing to support the bones and respond to stresses (including sudden stresses like impacts).

Jones could have been injured by an impact at any time. He, or any player, is more likely to get that impact and be injured by that impact when he's fatigued.

Just think about it. You go into a tackle when you are fresh, versus going into a tackle when you are tired. In which scenario are you more likely to make a mistake? In which scenario are your muscles and other soft tissue going to better respond in a way that protect your bones (by either flexing or stretching as needed)?

GSPfan

Funny thing about this season is that if Jose wasn't complaining so much about fatigue we wouldn't be using it to criticise him as much. Because I really can't think of many games in isolation where I would have thought to myself "Wow they all look so fatigued".

I think Jose will be sitting down in the Summer with fatigue fully on his brain when he draws up his transfer list. The likes of Darmian, Blind, Lingard, Fellaini have gone from being "Not good enough for United" to being crucial for rotation purposes. Keep everyone because you can almost guarantee every player 10 to 20 games if you rotate correctly.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes fatigue can result in broken bones. It's not a case of the bone getting tired that I'm talking about. Fatigue leads to a loss of strength and flexibility of muscles and other soft tissue, and a loss of balance and proprioception. These things then lead to the body being put in more awkward positions and the soft tissue failing to support the bones and respond to stresses (including sudden stresses like impacts).

Jones could have been injured by an impact at any time. He, or any player, is more likely to get that impact and be injured by that impact when he's fatigued.

Just think about it. You go into a tackle when you are fresh, versus going into a tackle when you are tired. In which scenario are you more likely to make a mistake? In which scenario are your muscles and other soft tissue going to better respond in a way that protect your bones (by either flexing or relaxing as needed)?

Ok that's fair enough but then just for talk sake looking at Jones injury record and how he picks up injuries and the type of injuries he nearly always has would you say it's very possible that the broken toe is another classic Phil Jones injury?

If it was any other player I'd be more open minded that it's as a result of fatigue but Jones picks up these injuries constantly maybe not broken bones but he is always getting knocks.

Korat

I'm not having fatigue as an excuse for Phil Jones picking up injuries. He doesn't play enough games for fatigue to come into it. He's spend most of his Utd career sitting in the stands.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

No it doesn't. Nobody has acted like we are playing incredible football. You are blatantly making this up.




This sounds reasonable, but this different to what you have been saying. It's the times when you claim we aren't improved over last season and that we were wrong to sack LVG that are just off the wall. And you say that stuff a fair bit.

I've never claimed sacking Van Gaal was the incorrect decision. I rowed in with everyone agreeing he needed to go last season.

I've merely posed the question at times, as to what major benefit have we got from that decision, with a bit of hindsight.

I'm also not blatantly making it up. I could be misinterpreting the amount of people posting like it, but there has been numerous posts during the season about how the team has just been unlucky, and has played some incredible football we havn't seen since the Fergie years.

I've understood it basically to be exaggeration borne out the frustrations with Van Gaal's team last year, that at times this year it has been so much better, that I've felt people are losing the run a little bit.

Yes it is better in parts, but we have been languishing in 6th and 5th all season dropping points all over the place.

Maybe I've used the wrong terms when saying incredible, but I get the feeling lots of people are kidding themselves that the performances are satisfactory or substantially better, and that is a positive to take going forward.

I take that point, to a certain degree, but then revert back to the dropped points.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe I've used the wrong terms when saying incredible, but I get the feeling lots of people are kidding themselves that the performances are satisfactory or substantially better, and that is a positive to take going forward.

The performances are substantially better.

The results aren't, but then you couldn't separate performances from results under Van Gaal either.

https://twitter.com/ChrisSmalling/status/859764500907646976

TheDoc

This is immense reading

http://www.football365.com/news/cristiano-ronaldo-the-ridiculous-statistics

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

This is immense reading

http://www.football365.com/news/cristiano-ronaldo-the-ridiculous-statistics

A freak of nature. I miss him at Utd

Lithium93_

TheDoc wrote: »

This is immense reading

http://www.football365.com/news/cristiano-ronaldo-the-ridiculous-statistics

Absolutely nuts how great he is, 103 CL goals and Lionel Messi only 9 behind on 94, not dragging this into a dick-swinging Ronaldo/Messi who's the greatest, but I will say this, Why can't people on both sides appreciate the fact that we're absolutely lucky to see the 2 greatest footballers ply their trade.

There's probably an unpopular opinion, being able to appreciate the greatness of both Ronaldo & Messi without the dick swinging antics that follow.

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

I'm not having fatigue as an excuse for Phil Jones picking up injuries. He doesn't play enough games for fatigue to come into it. He's spend most of his Utd career sitting in the stands.

I'm not talking about his whole career. I'm talking about this season. He certainly played enough games in a short enough time for fatigue to have been a factor this season.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm not talking about his whole career. I'm talking about this season. He certainly played enough games in a short enough time for fatigue to have been a factor this season.

You can't just dismiss that he has been injured so much in his career just to suit the narrative this year that maybe fatigue caused him to have a broken toe.

Maybe it was fatigue you or I don't know but he is one of the most injury prone players we have at the club missing huge chunks of every season with injuries I think this plays as much if not more of a factor in it then fatigue.

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

You can't just dismiss that he has been injured so much in his career just to suit the narrative this year that maybe fatigue caused him to have a broken toe.

Maybe it was fatigue you or I don't know but he is one of the most injury prone players we have at the club missing huge chunks of every season with injuries I think this plays as much if not more of a factor in it then fatigue.

Where did I dismiss that?

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm not talking about his whole career. I'm talking about this season. He certainly played enough games in a short enough time for fatigue to have been a factor this season.

22 appearances over the season, hardly a fatigue inducing schedule.He has managed 6 games in a row once this season. That's his career at United in a nutshell, play a few games,get injured, rinse and repeat.

bucketybuck

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Absolutely nuts how great he is, 103 CL goals and Lionel Messi only 9 behind on 94, not dragging this into a dick-swinging Ronaldo/Messi who's the greatest, but I will say this, Why can't people on both sides appreciate the fact that we're absolutely lucky to see the 2 greatest footballers ply their trade.

There's probably an unpopular opinion, being able to appreciate the greatness of both Ronaldo & Messi without the dick swinging antics that follow.

I can't wait until people accept that they actually are the two greatest of all time, and in actual fact have performed far better and achieved far more than all the usual greats from 50 years ago that get trotted out as the greatest ever despite most people never actually having seen them play.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Where did I dismiss that?

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm not talking about his whole career. I'm talking about this season.

Around about there

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

I can't wait until people accept that they actually are the two greatest of all time, and in actual fact have performed far better and achieved far more than all the usual greats from 50 years ago that get trotted out as the greatest ever despite most people never actually having seen them play.

Imagine if any of their kids go on to be world class footballers we will die arguing over who is better.

Lithium93_

bucketybuck wrote: »

I can't wait until people accept that they actually are the two greatest of all time, and in actual fact have performed far better and achieved far more than all the usual greats from 50 years ago that get trotted out as the greatest ever despite most people never actually having seen them play.

I don't think people will ever accept that they're actually the 2 greatest ever, it'll always be one over the other, and that's the great thing about opinions.

I never understood using players from 50 years ago as examples as greats, the game back then was simpler and not as demanding.

And I've never seen Pele or Maradona or "insert x name of former player" play bar the odd video tapes when I was younger and YouTube clips. But despite that I can recognize they were the best AT THE TIME, but nothing in comparison to today's players.

Lithium93_

jayo26 wrote: »

Imagine if any of their kids go on to be world class footballers we will die arguing over who is better.

Ronaldo Jr vs. Messi Jr, The Saga Continues :pac:

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

I've never claimed sacking Van Gaal was the incorrect decision.

Yes you have. Link:

TheDoc wrote:

If you handed me a time travel device to go back in time, where I could influence the United board, I'd keep Van Gaal for his final season.

Could go into loads of hypothetical scenarios, but looking at this season, yeah I'd happily go back and keep him on. I actually liked him as a person, as a coach, and appreciated that he was building something and should have been trusted with time to develop the young talented squad he assembled. That's not a slight on Jose, I'd say really only Guardiola being our manager, would have me not feel like Van Gaal should have got the final year of his deal.

I definitely lost the faith at a certain point, and on reflection wish I was stronger with railing against the crowd and maintain my support of him longer.

Think it would have been incredible if after all the ****, and he's a proud guy, going into this season to just prove loads of people wrong. Would have been a great looking back to allow him defy the critics, including us.

You are outright spoofing about what you have said, so I'm not going to waste my time dealing with you any more today.

Donnielighto

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Ronaldo Jr vs. Messi Jr, The Saga Continues :pac:

Lads of any kid is set for that it's agueros son. Kun is the aul lad, maradona the maternal granddad and messi the godfather.


Kid will turn out worse than jordi probably.

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes you have. Link:



You are outright spoofing about what you have said, so I'm not going to waste my time dealing with you any more today.

Semantically he didn't explicitly say so. Since you're very specific sometimes.

jayo26

Donnielighto wrote: »

Lads of any kid is set for that it's agueros son. Kun is the aul lad, maradona the maternal granddad and messi the godfather.


Kid will turn out worse than jordi probably.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTKXNcfFuhJ/

I'd say little Ronnie has a few of his dad's habits already.

Lithium93_

Donnielighto wrote: »

Lads of any kid is set for that it's agueros son. Kun is the aul lad, maradona the maternal granddad and messi the godfather.


Kid will turn out worse than jordi probably.

No pressure there whatsoever :pac:

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

22 appearances over the season, hardly a fatigue inducing schedule.He has managed 6 games in a row once this season. That's his career at United in a nutshell, play a few games,get injured, rinse and repeat.

22 appearances over a relatively short period of time. I outlined the details the other day in here. It was indeed the type of schedule that would be sensibly described as fatigue inducing. And you are wrong about it only being 6 games in a row. He had 10 games in a row (league and cups) coming up to the Reading FA cup game, was on the bench for that, but came on after 19 minutes and then played the next 5 games after that. Wasn't subbed off once in all that time until the last game, when he was injured.

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Around about there

That was in specific response to Korat saying that Jones doesn't play enough to get fatigued (because of being injured). That doesn't apply this season because he certainly did play enough to get fatigued.

That is not dismissing that he has gotten injured a lot in his career. It is dismissing the idea that he was out with injuries so much this season that he couldn't have gotten fatigued this season.

bmcc10

TheDoc wrote: »

This is immense reading

http://www.football365.com/news/cristiano-ronaldo-the-ridiculous-statistics

If i got stats like that on Fifa i'd say it was unrealistic he's a freak

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Ok that's fair enough but then just for talk sake looking at Jones injury record and how he picks up injuries and the type of injuries he nearly always has would you say it's very possible that the broken toe is another classic Phil Jones injury?

If it was any other player I'd be more open minded that it's as a result of fatigue but Jones picks up these injuries constantly maybe not broken bones but he is always getting knocks.

Of course it's possible that the broken bone was just Jones doing his thing. But you didn't say that. You said it couldn't have been fatigue related because it was a broken bone. That was wrong.

There's no denying that Jones is an injury prone player. That is even more reason why fatigue would be a problem for him.

Pro. F

Donnielighto wrote: »

Semantically he didn't explicitly say so. Since you're very specific sometimes.

I have never used such a spurious argument as that. So I'm not going to waste my time addressing it.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Of course it's possible that the broken bone was just Jones doing his thing. But you didn't say that. You said it couldn't have been fatigue related because it was a broken bone. That was wrong.

There's no denying that Jones is an injury prone player. That is even more reason why fatigue would be a problem for him.

Fair enough I was wrong to rule out fatigue but I'm still if the opinion that jones probably would of picked up that injury even if he had played very little.

TheDoc

zerks wrote: »

22 appearances over the season, hardly a fatigue inducing schedule.He has managed 6 games in a row once this season. That's his career at United in a nutshell, play a few games,get injured, rinse and repeat.

Agree with Pro.F on what I assume was his original point a while back. Scandalous for Jose to call out Jones, who came back into the team, rushed if anything, from a muscle injury. And then played like 6-8 games consecutively after having a long lay off.

The fatigue he is referencing, I assume is Jones body acclimatising to the run of games he had after returning from his previous injury.

And I think that is a legit statement. Remembering, Jones rarely to never plays a full season of 30+ gams? I don't know the facts on that, but I'd be surprised to learn he has ever completed 30+ 90 minutes in a season for us, something pretty standard for a first choice CB at a club. (Debatable if he is first choice, but you get the idea)

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes you have. Link:



You are outright spoofing about what you have said, so I'm not going to waste my time dealing with you any more today.

That's me outlining my wish and desire. Nowhere in that post did I state it was the incorrect decision and I'm pretty comfortable for you to dig deeper to know you won't find anywhere where I state it's the wrong decision.

That I wished Van Gaal to succeed does not equal it being the wrong decision.

But paint it how you like I guess. Accepted long ago at this stage people will sometimes take from my posts what they want to see or read as opposed to what's there or I want to convey so fill your boots. Catch you in the next exchange

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

That's me outlining my wish and desire. Nowhere in that post did I state it was the incorrect decision and I'm pretty comfortable for you to dig deeper to know you won't find anywhere where I state it's the wrong decision.

That I wished Van Gaal to succeed does not equal it being the wrong decision.

But paint it how you like I guess. Accepted long ago at this stage people will sometimes take from my posts what they want to see or read as opposed to what's there or I want to convey so fill your boots. Catch you in the next exchange

Saying Van Gaal should not have been sacked is the same as saying it was the wrong decision to sack him. It is utter drivel to pretend otherwise.

Nalz

Debating, oh debating... Specifics, aggression and bluntness. Must win! Must correct! The keys to a good conversation flow and avoidance of tit for tat.

Making my work journey home an even greater pleasure in this lovely weather

adox

I'd still have Maradonna as the greatest ever.