Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

Di Maria was mismanaged. Should have been playing every game through the middle and then was even dropped from the wing for Young who isn't capable of creating or scoring consistently. All of the bullshít came out about him wanting to go after he was being dicked around by LVG.

I think if a big bid came in for Herrera I'd accept it and spend the money on Barkley or Nianggolan and splash out on a dedicated DM. Herrera isn't good enough as a DM and his games as the box to box will be limited if one of the above were to come in. Herrera has a great attitude and it's great how much he riles up other fans but bar doing hatchet jobs on Hazard he doesn't offer much in the big games as the box to box player imo and someone more athletic and powerful would make a lot of difference in there.

That said, it would be nice for one or two players to stay for next season

1. DiMaria may have been mismanaged by LVG, but that doesn't excuse his piss poor attitude while at the club. He and LVG could have been best friends, it wouldn't have mattered, DiMaria just didn't want to be in Manchester.

2. Get rid of Herrera if a bid comes in and use the money for Barkley? No way, Jose.

In that game where Herrera did a hatchet job on Hazard, he also set up one of our goals and scored the other. That's an unfair, inaccurate summation of Herrera's worth to the team which you've given in my honest opinion.

3. I agree, it would be nice to hold on to some players for next season. In fact, I can never remember such a culture of wanting to get rid of players in here before. Fellaini f*cks up - sell him, Martial has a sub-par second season despite showing bags of potential in his first - sell him, Herrera had a strong season but if a decent offer comes in - sell him. Shaw, Jones and Smalling are taking too long on the injury table - sell them, Valencia doesn't have enough assists - sell him. It's a very impatient mentality, and I wonder if some of these posters suggesting such wholesale changes are also avid Football Manger players too.

Giggsy11

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Hanging out with friends and fighting for the club are not the same thing. If he was as committed to winning games with the club as he was to flying to Manchester to hang out with friends we'd be far better off for it. I think many, including myself are unconvinced that he'd have moved to United if Barca or Real had made a serious effort to get him. Ronaldo has often spoken of his love for Manchester United too since he's left. Actions speak louder than words.

Clearly wrong. Did you see how pissed off Pogba was whenever we were dropping points? He was trying too hard to make the impact. Not sure how anyone can question his commitment when he defends and attacks even in the last min.

Re Barca and Madrid, it's all speculation, funny how pissed off you were when someone else used rumors to talk about Rooney and now you are assuming things to talk about Pogba.

NIMAN

yabadabado wrote: »

Would be very happy with both signings but ****in hell transfer fees are gone mental.

Was just thinking that myself recently.

Only a few years ago, ?50m was massive money for a player.
Now figures of ?80 - ?100 are thrown around for anyone who is good.

De Gea = ?60m. For a goalkeeper.
Mbappe, ?100m+, for a teenager who has impressed for one season.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

I think if a big bid came in for Herrera I'd accept it and spend the money on Barkley or Nianggolan and splash out on a dedicated DM. Herrera isn't good enough as a DM and his games as the box to box will be limited if one of the above were to come in. Herrera has a great attitude and it's great how much he riles up other fans but bar doing hatchet jobs on Hazard he doesn't offer much in the big games as the box to box player imo and someone more athletic and powerful would make a lot of difference in there.

That said, it would be nice for one or two players to stay for next season

You need to stop watching some other games and watch the games we all watch. Herrera was Man of the match in almost all big games, IIRC it was 4.

He scored and assisted against Chelsea.
He assisted only goal against Spurs
He assisted only goal against Arsenal.
Played amazing defensive game against Liverpool.

IIRC he was man of the match in all the games.

****ing Barkley who is playing many games as right midfielder and playing good, Barkely who barely played as box to box player is the replacement for Herrera?

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

You need to stop watching some other games and watch the games we all watch. Herrera was Man of the match in almost all big games, IIRC it was 4.

He scored and assisted against Chelsea.
He assisted only goal against Spurs
He assisted only goal against Arsenal.
Played amazing defensive game against Liverpool.

IIRC he was man of the match in all the games.

****ing Barkley who is playing many games as right midfielder and playing good, Barkely who barely played as box to box player is the replacement for Herrera?

Yes Barkley who would be a much more balanced player opposite Pogba on the right side of a midfield 3. Ignore that I said Nianggolan too...

United haven't finished above 4th the last 3 seasons. It stands to reason that a lot of the players in there are not good enough. Herrera has had a good season but I'm not sure he offers more than a lot of players would in his position. Thus if a bid came in that would allow United to adequately replace him then I wouldn't say no. Herrera has played a lot of games this season as the deepest midfielder and hasn't been at the required standard for the position. As you say his output in the big games stat wise has been alright. Though I wouldn't class his goal against Chelsea as really being much of his own .

99% sure he won't leave anyway so pointless discussion.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Yes Barkley who would be a much more balanced player opposite Pogba on the right side of a midfield 3. Ignore that I said Nianggolan too...

United haven't finished above 4th the last 3 seasons. It stands to reason that a lot of the players in there are not good enough. Herrera has had a good season but I'm not sure he offers more than a lot of players would in his position. Thus if a bid came in that would allow United to adequately replace him then I wouldn't say no. Herrera has played a lot of games this season as the deepest midfielder and hasn't been at the required standard for the position. As you say his output in the big games stat wise has been alright. Though I wouldn't class his goal against Chelsea as really being much of his own .

99% sure he won't leave anyway so pointless discussion.

Herrera is playing deeper role and we have second best defensive record in the league, haven't conceded more than once in all games except 2-3. Herrera is statistically best CM defensively in the league.

Yeah we haven't finished above 4th so? Does that mean we have to bin players like De Gea too as he was ever present in all the games? Or Pogba who play almost all games?

Barkely won't bring balance, he will make team even more unbalanced. Herrera, Pogba with proper DM will the best combination.

Nianggolan won't leave Roma anyways. He loves the city and Roma won't accept anything less than 40-50 Million.

This season Herrera is superb defensively and lot better than most midfielders in the league when it comes to offering something to attack. He is 12th in the assists table, only CM ahead of him is Fabregas, rest all are either attacking mids, wingers and strikers.

Trigger

So according to the Mail, Alderweirald has stalled on a new contract as he wants a salary matching Kane..

Cheeky bid?

ericzeking

Pro. F wrote: »

Saying Van Gaal should not have been sacked is the same as saying it was the wrong decision to sack him. It is utter drivel to pretend otherwise.

It's actually not.
The fans had turned on LVG, the atmosphere around OT was septic, a change had to be made from that perspective. People weren't going to wait for it to click for LVG.

One can still hold the opinion that we would be better off from a footballing perspective if LVG was left to complete his work.

Certainly better off from a footballing perspective, if you take an alternate long term view, than hiring who we hired.

That's the view I would hold anyway.

bucketybuck

ericzeking wrote: »

It's actually not.
The fans had turned on LVG, the atmosphere around OT was septic, a change had to be made from that perspective. People weren't going to wait for it to click for LVG.

One can still hold the opinion that we would be better off from a footballing perspective if LVG was left to complete his work.

Certainly better off from a footballing perspective, if you take an alternate long term view, than hiring who we hired.

That's the view I would hold anyway.

I'm just envious that you missed every match that we played under Van Gaal, how lucky you were.

jayo26

I actually think people forget what football was like under Lvg we went threw a month of football with 5 shots on target I think at one stage absolutely no desire to create a chance.

Jose might have methods we don't understand but give me his faults any day over lvg in two years the only thing he did I liked was throw himself on the ground at arsenal.

Edit: Oh and he got himself pissed at the end if season party that will always be a YouTube favourite.

Leroy42

yabadabado wrote: »

Would be very happy with both signings but ****in hell transfer fees are gone mental.
Any player linked to United now just seems to have an outrageous fee attached.
Bellotti will probably sign for another Serie A team for 30m after we are linked with him for the next 3 months.

Well, transfer fees to Utd are gone mental because A) we have the money and Utd are constantly telling everyone how much they have to offset the lack of achievements on the pitch &

b) the other teams know how desperate we are.

If we were a top team, winning the league, getting to and winning CL on a consistent basis then players would be pushing to join us and the others teams would be forced into getting whatever they could rather than having a clearly unhappy player on their hands.

WE are basically trying to bribe players and other teams into coming to us as money is the only carrot we currently have. Of course the fees would still be very high regardless, thats just fee inflation, but there is no doubt, IMO, that Utd are having to pay a premium on top of that.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Saying Van Gaal should not have been sacked is the same as saying it was the wrong decision to sack him. It is utter drivel to pretend otherwise.

Me saying I would have liked him to stay on, on reflection ,is not the same as saying it was the wrong decision. And I havn't said he shouldn't have been sacked, I've said it just for me.

If you can't grasp that concept stop quoting and replying saying I'm posting drivel. I'd imagine plenty of other people grasp the concept.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Joses presser in a nutshell:
Priority for rest of season is EL
Good

Confirmed also that Shaw out for the season.
That's Shaw, Ibra and Rojo out for season now.

Pogba, Smalling, Jones and Bially all available for selection.

Edit* Juan Mata available also

Players will be rested in the PL to prioritize the EL

How will this work with the Premier League and their integrity rules? The Huddersfield incident over the weekend reminded me when Wolves were done and fined when they came to us and played a second string eleven before playing a relegation rival a few days after.

I'd imagine he has just put a target on himself/club now if he fields ridiculous sides in the league for fines.

Leroy42

TheDoc wrote: »

How will this work with the Premier League and their integrity rules? The Huddersfield incident over the weekend reminded me when Wolves were done and fined when they came to us and played a second string eleven before playing a relegation rival a few days after.

I'd imagine he has just put a target on himself/club now if he fields ridiculous sides in the league for fines.

No issue, that rule is only for the smaller clubs.

Trigger

While we would be resting players we would probably be playing established PL players anyways and the PL would find it hard to prove their case.

The PL could point to Jose saying that EL is priority but the Club would be able to point to hundreds of incidents of rotating and resting players from every club in the League.

The club could also point to the amount of games played and argue that they are acting in the best interests of the players on medical grounds.

S.M.B.

Very nervous about tonights game. We've struggled for long periods of EL games this season when teams have pressed high resulting in little or no midfield possession for us.

Celta Vigo are going to take this to an entirely different level and I just hope Jose has a plan in place to handle it.

Trigger

S.M.B. wrote: »

Very nervous about tonights game. We've struggled for long periods of EL games this season when teams have pressed high resulting in little or no midfield possession for us.

Celta Vigo are going to take this to an entirely different level and I just hope Jose has a plan in place to handle it.

Lord TSC

I'm more confident playing against a high line than a park the bus tbh. Especially with Rashford starting, his pace has a chance to burn that sort of team.

We'll conceed, but we'll score to imo.

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'm more confident playing against a high line than a park the bus tbh. Especially with Rashford starting, his pace has a chance to burn that sort of team.

We'll conceed, but we'll score to imo.

Yeah with Rashford starting and Pogba in midfield, we should be able to create few chances.

Lithium93_

Mata's dance moves > Pogba.

https://twitter.com/TrueRedDevils__/status/859988876709986306

Mantis Toboggan

How good are celta Vigo?

11th in Spanish league suggests they're poor enough but then again so are we. Team selection will be interesting.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/sport_witness/status/860064106782613505
https://twitter.com/sport_witness/status/860064891847233536

Herrera and Mata, something Jose would not want to ruin.

StringerBell

Tyson Fury wrote: »

How good are celta Vigo?

11th in Spanish league suggests they're poor enough but then again so are we. Team selection will be interesting.

Well capable of a big performance at home (Barca and Madrid are big scalps this year), they have been resting players in the league to focus on the EL also.

They will be up for it, so if we are not then it could be messy.

Giggsy11

StringerBell wrote: »

Well capable of a big performance at home (Barca and Madrid are big scalps this year), they have been resting players in the league to focus on the EL also.

They will be up for it, so if we are not then it could be messy.

They are good team but Barca's high defensive line suits Celta's style. They are superb counter attacking team and press very high, so playing from the back or high line is very risky.

Jose likes deeper defensive line and against pressing teams he instructs his CBs to clear the ball rather than passing the ball from defense (he said that after City game at Old Trafford), so we can negate their strengths.

Obviously it will be tough game but we should qualify to finals.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Me saying I would have liked him to stay on, on reflection ,is not the same as saying it was the wrong decision. And I havn't said he shouldn't have been sacked, I've said it just for me.

If you can't grasp that concept stop quoting and replying saying I'm posting drivel. I'd imagine plenty of other people grasp the concept.

Yes you have. See here: "I actually liked him as a person, as a coach, and appreciated that he was building something and should have been trusted with time to develop the young talented squad he assembled."

Yes there's a whole lot of other stuff about your feelings on the subject, but that doesn't mean you didn't say LVG should have been kept in the job. You seem to think that just because it was your own opinion that then nobody can criticise that opinion. That if you talk about the emotional aspects of the situation that nobody can criticise the choice of manager you argue for.

And to be clear:

- he should have been kept in the job
- he shouldn't have been sacked
- it was the wrong decision to sack him

They all mean the same thing in this context. LVG in the job this season instead of Jose. That is what you have been arguing for.

Lord TSC

The thoughts of being here with LVG still as our manager makes me physically ill....

Its ****ing Game Day. And a semi-finals of a European competition too! Don't ruin it for me :P

Trigger

Where the hell is Jayo or Zerks, match thread is needed

HONKEY TONK

We will win tonight.

We will score first 10 min

CV to equalize just after the break.

Pogba to score a screamer at the end

The_Kew_Tour

Lord TSC wrote: »

The thoughts of being here with LVG still as our manager makes me physically ill....

Its ****ing Game Day. And a semi-finals of a European competition too! Don't ruin it for me :P

Been 6 long years since we have been in European Semi Final.

Lithium93_

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Been 6 long years since we have been in European Semi Final.

I was gonna correct you and say it was 9 years, but then I remembered the Champions League semi finals in 2011.. Good thing for Google and not winding up wrong..

Lithium93_

astradave wrote: »

Where the hell is Jayo or Zerks, match thread is needed

Wait patiently..

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes there's a whole lot of other stuff about your feelings on the subject, but that doesn't mean you didn't say LVG should have been kept in the job. You seem to think that just because it was your own opinion that then nobody can criticise that opinion. That if you talk about the emotional aspects of the situation that nobody can criticise the choice of manager you argue for.

Well that is where you are wrong imo. My personal desires and wishes are my own, and not a foundation or base for arguing a decision or action that was taken in the context of the reality. I knew he couldn't continue and I knew he had to be sacked, agreement in that decision can exist with "I just wish it could have worked out".

I'm always happy to receive criticism or conflicting views, but you've just seen this as an opportunity to have a go, so I've savy enough to know this should be the last I should respond on it, and let you have the last word if you like.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Where the hell is Jayo or Zerks, match thread is needed

Sorry Dave Was training this morning I'll get onto it now

Edit: it's ok Lithium93 did one........ Ohh we better not lose

Lithium93_

jayo26 wrote: »

Sorry Dave Was training this morning I'll get onto it now

Already got the match thread done in your absence.

Just to add, I won't be held responsible if it goes absolutely sideways, might actually unfollow the match thread now, and read through later.

Harry Palmr

TheDoc wrote: »

How will this work with the Premier League and their integrity rules? The Huddersfield incident over the weekend reminded me when Wolves were done and fined when they came to us and played a second string eleven before playing a relegation rival a few days after.

I'd imagine he has just put a target on himself/club now if he fields ridiculous sides in the league for fines.

This changed when the Prem instigated the current squad rule - if they have a senior squad number you can play them regardless of how many or how marginal plus academy players. Liverpool did this when they were saving the seniors for the EL semi and final. The Football League has different rules hence Huddersfield Towns collar being felt.

A spokesman for the Premier League confirmed: "The clubs voted at the last Premier League Annual General Meeting to modify the rule regarding clubs fielding full strength teams (E.20). From 2011/12 onwards the rule will allow any combination of players included in a club's 25-man squad list to be selected for a Premier League fixture.

"The 25-man squad rules do allow clubs to pick Under-21 players beyond those named in their squad list and, with this in mind, it was agreed by the clubs that it was appropriate for the rule to remain in place in order to ensure the integrity of the competition."

jayo26

Jose will not play a team if kids eitherway it will be a non issuer. He may have one ir two max but the rest of the team Will be full if players that are internationals and would have played over ten games already this season.

He won't rest an entire 11 players no need too.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Well that is where you are wrong imo. My personal desires and wishes are my own, and not a foundation or base for arguing a decision or action that was taken in the context of the reality. I knew he couldn't continue and I knew he had to be sacked, agreement in that decision can exist with "I just wish it could have worked out".

But you haven't been saying "I just wish it could have worked out." You have been arguing that it was the wrong decision to sack him. If you had just been expressing the wish it could have worked out differently then nobody would have been calling you on it. It's the other opinions - that we are no better off with Jose, that Van Gaal should have been kept in the job - those are the opinions that you are getting disagreement on. And when you do, you just row back and pretend you were only expressing your wish for what could have been, or you pretend that people have been talking up Jose's football more than they have.

adox

Pro. F wrote: »

But you haven't been saying "I just wish it could have worked out." You have been arguing that it was the wrong decision to sack him. If you had just been expressing the wish it could have worked out differently then nobody would have been calling you on it. It's the other opinions - that we are no better off with Jose, that Van Gaal should have been kept in the job - those are the opinions that you are getting disagreement on. And when you do, you just row back and pretend you were only expressing your wish for what could have been, or you pretend that people have been talking up Jose's football more than they have.

This is as clear as day imo.

keane2097

adox wrote: »

This is as clear as day imo.

+1

jayo26

Does that mean argument is over now?

TheDoc

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This changed when the Prem instigated the current squad rule - if they have a senior squad number you can play them regardless of how many or how marginal plus academy players. Liverpool did this when they were saving the seniors for the EL semi and final. The Football League has different rules hence Huddersfield Towns collar being felt.

Ah ok thanks for the information

ElChe32

jayo26 wrote: »

Does that mean argument is over now?

Actual footage of the boys hugging it out.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

Does that mean argument is over now?

Well I'm done anyway.

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

Well I'm done anyway.

So Pro. F won then? quitter...

jayo26

ElChe32 wrote: »

Actual footage of the boys hugging it out.

I miss pablo

Jayop

Catching up now. Barkley over Herrera? Lol

adox

Jayop wrote: »

Catching up now. Barkley over Herrera? Lol

To be fair to Liamo thats not what he said, even if he did suggest buying Barkley and selling Herrera.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

So Pro. F won then? quitter...

Taking it as another lesson of posting clearer or something. The thanks on his posts probably indicate what I think I'm saying is not what I'm conveying (I've always assume it's a he btw?)

Jayop

adox wrote: »

To be fair to Liamo thats not what he said, even if he did suggest buying Barkley and selling Herrera.

That's exactly what he said, and the detailed reason was even worse. He said that Barkley would give more balance.

I've watched a fair few Everton games this season and bar the odd Gerrard highlights reel pass he's been shocking.

Lithium93_

Ander Herrera > Ross Barkley.