Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's a very good squad.

If you mean overrated, then yeah.


As Rio said already I get the impression that a lot of the players out there tonight just seem to be filling up jerseys and are not contributing enough.

Trigger

Also you can see just after that why Roncaglia was sent off, lost the plot and tried to take out Bailly and Pogba right in front of the ref

StringerBell

It is obvious to me they are playing scared football at the minute which is killing them.

Even early in the game Fellaini and Herrera were very reluctant to go forward, the emphasis was a very Van Gaal like ball retention rather then trying to impose themselves and stamp authority on an inferior opponent, Darmian pretty much never got forward and Valencia was cautious also.

It is safety first at its worst and it just doesn't suit the players. There was more then enough on the pitch tonight to kill Celta Vigo but they were left to grow in confidence and invited to attack all game while we tried to pump balls for Rashford to chase in the channels on the counter, even then committing the minimum bodies forward.

Did my head in all game.

pheasant tail

StringerBell wrote: »

Oh yeah, any chance Bailly can get that red rescinded? It was nothing, I thought Valencia was probably in more trouble

Wouldn't think he has a hope as he did raise his fist. I wonder what was said to him, I'd say it's likely it was something racial as both Valencia and Bailey reacted

irishfeen

I presume we are throwing our remaining PL games?? ... time to wrap Rashford, Herrera, Pogba, de Gea, Smalling, Jones and Mata & Mkhitaryan in cotton wool!

ALL our eggs in the one 90min basket now..

Little CuChulainn

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Could have been something racist, they both seemed fairly pissed.

Yeah but his own players didn't. If it was racist I think they would have.

edgecutter

pheasant tail wrote: »

Wouldn't think he has a hope as he did raise his fist. I wonder what was said to him, I'd say it's likely it was something racial as both Valencia and Bailey reacted

If it was, then Bailly maybe has a case to get it rescinded.

thelad95

edgecutter wrote: »

The better team has gone through. Celta showed nothing in the first leg and deserved to be a couple down from that leg alone. United clear and deserving winners of this tie.

Couldn't care less about the first leg, we are at home in the Theatre of Dreams and we play like that against a mediocre Spanish side full of journeymen, on the night I feel Celta deserved to go through and would really not have begrudged them had they scored at the end.

People criticise Fellaini but him and Valencia are the only one's who played like they gave a shíte tonight.

Mourinho has gone so far backwards, the cocky, arrogant, confident Mourinho of the mid 2000s is gone, the look on his face in the last few minutes of injury time, is a look I haven't seen since David Moyes in the League cup semi final against Sunderland where we were arses to the wall against f*cking Sunderland at home.

Getting to A European Cup final has never felt less satisfying :mad:

BenK

Would've liked to have seen Martial get some game time tonight. He's been pretty decent lately I think.

jimmytwotimes 2013

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's a very good squad.

Disagree strongly, been watching this squad for the last 2 years (excluding the new signings) and they've done nothing to suggest this is a top level squad.

They're a Europa League team.

Happy to have a chance at Champions League next season but Pogba celebrating like he's won the World Cup in the end is embarrassing. Celebrating a semi final win in Europe's B competition having played like muck is not what I'd be looking for in a United player. Imagine Keane, Scholes or whoever doing that.

Honest assessment of the game:

Jose setup again in a defensive formation and we almost paid the price.
Not good enough IMO but I'm so glad we made the final.
In the first leg we had out chances to kill the tie but we didn't as we have done so all season.

But this leg was a different story. We played the exact same system as we played against Arsenal, way too defensive and starved Rashford of chances.

When Pogba managed to get on the ball he was very good but because we were setup in a manner to stifle any attacking play it was very hard for him to dictate the game.

Herrera had one of his worst games in a Utd shirt but again the formation did not help the situation.

Not sure what the **** happened with the Bailey incident but I have a feeling something nasty was said to trigger him off. Raging he's going to miss the final.

Ultimately not good enough from Jose, he is now playing the team negatively as far as I'm concerned.
If you take the two legs in to context we deserved to go through but we were so lucky at the end of that match.
Phewwwwww

edgecutter

irishfeen wrote: »

I presume we are throwing our remaining PL games?? ... time to wrap Rashford, Herrera, Pogba, de Gea, Smalling, Jones and Mata & Mkhitaryan in cotton wool!

ALL our eggs in the one 90min basket now..

Nah, these two need match fitness and they are likely to get injured within cotton wool anyway.

irishfeen

edgecutter wrote: »

Nah, these two need match fitness and they are likely to get injured within cotton wool anyway.

:)

kstand

S.M.B. wrote: »

That's just not true. Looking back at the fergie era with rose tinted glasses.

Really? We already had 3 midfielders on the field so we bring off a winger and bring on another holding midfielder - the oldest in the squad and and them the flank they eventually put the cross in from for the equaliser. How long you watching United matches?

StringerBell

kstand wrote: »

Really? We already had 3 midfielders on the field so we bring off a winger and bring on another holding midfielder - the oldest in the squad and and them the flank they eventually put the cross in from for the equaliser. How long you watching United matches?

He brought on Carrick to try and gain a foothold in midfield, to try to bring calmness, a guy who could put his foot on the ball and dictate.

It didn't work.

BTW, they were getting joy down that side all night due to the Darmian/Blind left side of the D partnership being ****e.

adox

edgecutter wrote: »

If it was, then Bailly maybe has a case to get it rescinded.

Wouldn't make any difference.

Lord TSC

Carrick coming on was about bringing on an experienced head to calm things don't. Don't know if it worked or not but I can see the reasoning.

bucketybuck

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd say Jose can't believe how bad this squad is.

People keep talking about Jose playing scared, but do they ever wonder why? He is a hugely successful manager and has broken records for goalscoring in seasons, he is clearly not a coward so why is he now trying to see out close games by going defensive?

My two cents? He knows damn well we have **** all scoring threat, that we have serious limitations in our attacking unit, so he knows that if he brought on the Mata's or Martials we still wouldn't ever put these teams away and yet would still always be open to conceding.

If a manager doesn't believe we can see out a game by pressing home our advantage through scoring more goals then the obvious alternative is to see it out defensively. He might be wrong in that belief, or he might be right, but either way from seeing our finishing all season I can understand where he might be coming from.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Carrick coming on was about bringing on an experienced head to calm things don't. Don't know if it worked or not but I can see the reasoning.

It did not work at all IMO
I will give Rooney credit, he did more than Carrick to settle things

thelad95

Lord TSC wrote: »

Carrick coming on was about bringing on an experienced head to calm things don't. Don't know if it worked or not but I can see the reasoning.

Who cleared the ball away after Guidetti f*cked it up?

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

People keep talking about Jose playing scared, but do they ever wonder why? He is a hugely successful manager and has broken records for goalscoring in seasons, he is clearly not a coward so why is he now trying to see out close games by going defensive?

My two cents? He knows damn well we have **** all scoring threat, that we have serious limitations in our attacking unit, so he knows that if he brought on the Mata's or Martials we still wouldn't ever put these teams away and yet would still always be open to conceding.

If a manager doesn't believe we can see out a game by pressing home our advantage through scoring more goals then the obvious alternative is to see it out defensively. He might be wrong in that belief, or he might be right, but either way from seeing our finishing all season I can understand where he might be coming from.

Utd were defensive in the setup from the kick off
Stop telling yourself otherwise
It's not the way the game should have been approached for 90 minutes

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

It is safety first at its worst and it just doesn't suit the players. There was more then enough on the pitch tonight to kill Celta Vigo

These players haven't killed anybody all season, even before this past few weeks/months when Jose has played far more cautiously.

Seriously, based on our season telling our players to go out and attack, attack attack would result in 20 chances created and maybe one goal if we were lucky.

I'm not fussed on defending scared play, but I wouldn't exactly place much faith in these lads to go out and score a bagful if only they were let off this leash.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Utd were defensive in the setup from the kick off
Stop telling yourself otherwise
It's not the way the game should have been approached for 90 minutes

I know they were, they have been defensive since Zlatan got banned and then injured.

He doesn't trust the players to score, the only question is can you blame him?

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

These players haven't killed anybody all season, even before this past few weeks/months when Jose has played far more cautiously.

Seriously, based on our season telling our players to go out and attack, attack attack would result in 20 chances created and maybe one goal if we were lucky.

I'm not fussed on defending scared play, but I wouldn't exactly place much faith in these lads to go out and score a bagful if only they were let off this leash.

No one has said attack attack attack, but when Celta Vigo have the majority of the possession in Old Trafford in the second leg of a Europa League tie any Utd fan has a right to be concerned
We were ****ing lucky tonight, and no bull****e will spin it otherwise
That's down to Jose

mewe

People go on about how good our squad is and Jose should be doing better with it but we have problems in defence and I think that's why he protects it so much and in fairness we haven't been conceding many goals this season even with an unreliable set of defenders and key injuries towards the business end of the season.

sky88

I'm absolutely delighted to be in the final but the last months football has just put me in a rut watching united it's been van gaal level stuff.

If we do end up winning the Europa it'll be so strange as I feel it's been a disappointing but how can you complain about 2 trophies and qualifying for the champions league.

The_Kew_Tour

Its a weird feeling. When I compare it to 99, 08, 09 and 11 semi finals. Yes it was the CL and not Europa but I still have just such a bad stomach after all that

bucketybuck

sky88 wrote: »

If we do end up winning the Europa it'll be so strange as I feel it's been a disappointing but how can you complain about 2 trophies and qualifying for the champions league.

I won't complain, I'd be ****ing delighted to win this. The only major trophy we haven't won, its still a proper accomplishment as far as I'm concerned.

jimmytwotimes 2013

bucketybuck wrote: »

People keep talking about Jose playing scared, but do they ever wonder why? He is a hugely successful manager and has broken records for goalscoring in seasons, he is clearly not a coward so why is he now trying to see out close games by going defensive?

My two cents? He knows damn well we have **** all scoring threat, that we have serious limitations in our attacking unit, so he knows that if he brought on the Mata's or Martials we still wouldn't ever put these teams away and yet would still always be open to conceding.

If a manager doesn't believe we can see out a game by pressing home our advantage through scoring more goals then the obvious alternative is to see it out defensively. He might be wrong in that belief, or he might be right, but either way from seeing our finishing all season I can understand where he might be coming from.

Neville said it on MNF that he went with an open selection against Man City at OT and we had our arses handed to us. He hasn't tried it since.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Sorry posting again.

Of United's current crop De Gea, Bailly, Ibra and Rashford (even tho his chance conversion is poor) are about the only players you'd think are top level.

Martial has had a poor year.
Herrera is as honest as they come but is a very good squad player at best.
Lingard has been poor.
Mkhitaryan has done it before but is nowhere near his Bundesliga numbers (maybe next year).
Rooney is finished.
Pogba has been good but needs a three-man midfield to cover his poor positional play and defensive game.
Valencia is another good squad player but his assist numbers are very poor considering how often he gets up the pitch.
Smalling and Jones are either injured or making mistakes.
Darmian offers very little going forward which is essential for the modern full back.

I hate harking back to the 99 squad (our greatest ever) but the 08 squad would wipe the floor with the current crop.

We're a poor team, we've been a poor team for three years. This isn't Jose's fault. I'd only judge him at the end of next season cos he inherited a sh1tshow.

Hococop

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Sorry posting again.

Of United's current crop De Gea, Bailly, Ibra and Rashford (even tho his chance conversion is poor) are about the only players you'd think are top level.

Martial has had a poor year.
Herrera is as honest as they come but is a very good squad player at best.
Lingard has been poor.
Mkhitaryan has done it before but is nowhere near his Bundesliga numbers (maybe next year).
Rooney is finished.
Pogba has been good but needs a three-man midfield to cover his poor positional play and defensive game.
Valencia is another good squad player but his assist numbers are very poor considering how often he gets up the pitch.
Smalling and Jones are either injured or making mistakes.
Darmian offers very little going forward which is essential for the modern full back.

I hate harking back to the 99 squad (our greatest ever) but the 08 squad would wipe the floor with the current crop.

We're a poor team, we've been a poor team for three years. This isn't Jose's fault. I'd only judge him at the end of next season cos he inherited a sh1tshow.

I'd say no one would try and say that this team is better than the 08 squad

The_Kew_Tour

I wonder who Van Der Saar will be rooting for

adox

https://twitter.com/manutd/status/862759015981481985

kstand

StringerBell wrote: »

He brought on Carrick to try and gain a foothold in midfield, to try to bring calmness, a guy who could put his foot on the ball and dictate.

It didn't work.

BTW, they were getting joy down that side all night due to the Darmian/Blind left side of the D partnership being ****e.

Not the point - soon as that decision was made we were consigned to being in the back foot.

J. Marston

Big game Fellaini.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I wonder who Van Der Saar will be rooting for

Seen as he is a director at ajax now I'd say he will be wanting his team to win

mewe

Watching the highlights on itv now. Can't wait to hear what Keane has to say :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

jayo26 wrote: »

Seen as he is a director at ajax now I'd say he will be wanting his team to win

Did not realise he was Director. Booooo

deaddonkey15

edgecutter wrote: »

If you mean overrated, then yeah.


As Rio said already I get the impression that a lot of the players out there tonight just seem to be filling up jerseys and are not contributing enough.

I don't mean overrated, I mean't what I said.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Disagree strongly, been watching this squad for the last 2 years (excluding the new signings) and they've done nothing to suggest this is a top level squad.

They're a Europa League team.

Happy to have a chance at Champions League next season but Pogba celebrating like he's won the World Cup in the end is embarrassing. Celebrating a semi final win in Europe's B competition having played like muck is not what I'd be looking for in a United player. Imagine Keane, Scholes or whoever doing that.

We should really stop with the 'imagine Keane and Scholes .. ' stuff at this stage.

Regarding the squad, I've posted here before about how I think our squad is pretty good but we are just not getting the best out of them. When you can pick a front 6 out of Ibrahimovic, Rashford,Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Pogba and you have one of the top keepers in the world (and a pretty decent one as back up) behind a very good if unspectacular(individually at least) defence then we can't complain too much about the squad. We've the joint lowest defeats in the league this season and 2nd least goals conceded. That is a rock solid foundation for a title challenge. Our problem is finishing and not killing teams off.

DM_7

mewe wrote: »

People go on about how good our squad is and Jose should be doing better with it but we have problems in defence and I think that's why he protects it so much and in fairness we haven't been conceding many goals this season even with an unreliable set of defenders and key injuries towards the business end of the season.

Agree with you. April and May turned into a slog. Have to try and get through games rather than power through them.

Missed too many chances earlier in the season to build up points in the league that could provide moments to rest and protect players towards seasons end. Those failings are shared by the players and manager. Need to improve results in early games next season.

Hococop

Out of curiosity what way would people blame the players and Jose percentage wise

I'd go 60-40% players maybe 65-35%

jayo26

Hococop wrote: »

Out of curiosity what way would people blame the players and Jose percentage wise

I'd go 60-40% players maybe 65-35%

Tactics have to come down to jose I blame him pretty much 100 percent.

I'm first to say I don't think it's Jose's fault when the players miss sitters and I stand by that but it is his fault when the team is setup to hit on the break at old Trafford and keep the game tight.

Since ibra got injured I think tonight was our first goal from open play? I think this kinda thing is what has effected jose he has no faith in the forwards to put away chances so he is reverting to keeping it tight and hoping to nick a goal she we are ahead.

I think the final might be different both teams need to score and he will ideally know what team he wants to play so he will be keeping them instal with game time in the final 3 league games and working on tactics for the final.

Going forward next year I think he needs two replace zlatan and add another finisher that he can rely on I'd we make champs league that should be some what easier done this summer's focus has to be on players that score goals first and foremost then Carrick position and then another center back.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/MourinhoMindset/status/862792457314086912?s=09

jimmytwotimes 2013

United's decline and goal shyness preceded Jose, couldn't blame him 100% for it.

J. Marston

He's done everything possible to remedy the goal shyness. Attackers have let him down hugely this season.

Whatsisname

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I don't mean overrated, I mean't what I said.



We should really stop with the 'imagine Keane and Scholes .. ' stuff at this stage.

Regarding the squad, I've posted here before about how I think our squad is pretty good but we are just not getting the best out of them. When you can pick a front 6 out of Ibrahimovic, Rashford,Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Pogba and you have one of the top keepers in the world (and a pretty decent one as back up) behind a very good if unspectacular(individually at least) defence then we can't complain too much about the squad. We've the joint lowest defeats in the league this season and 2nd least goals conceded. That is a rock solid foundation for a title challenge. Our problem is finishing and not killing teams off.

This 1000x times. If I had a euro for everytime Keane was mentioned in this thread I'd have enough to convince him out of retirement. He's gone over 10 years at this stage. Time to move on.

Liam McPoyle

While I can fully understand a lot of the gripes people (myself included tbh) have over tonight's performance, we are still in a European cup final.

If at the start of the season I had been offered a 50/50 chance to win the EL or get 4th, I'd probably have taken the shot at the title.

Yes, our league form has been disappointing, yes our lack of goals is annoying but I've gotten more enjoyment from the team since August than pretty much the entire preceding 3 years.

I don't care that we have the most expensive squad OF ALL TIME!!!! and tbh some of the bellpipes that use that as a stick to beat us with are the same ones that crowed about us being the worst United team in 20 years before Jose took the reins.

I don't care that the teams that were in the last stages of the tournament aren't world beaters, we can only play what's in front of us, its a petty argument from begrudging bellpipes.

I don't care that we spent £89 million on Pogba. Sure, he hasn't exactly set the league on fire but the truth of the matter is that with a bit more luck / composure in front of goal he would be over 20 for goals and assists. He will come good and I believe he will be a monster in the league over the next few seasons.

I don't care that the league cup is the low man on the totem when it comes to domestic honours. A trophy is a trophy and success breeds success and a winning mentality.

The team is far from perfect, there have been some dour performances, both on and off the field but there has also been some scintillating football played. We will undoubtedly strengthen in key areas in the summer, we need more teeth going forward, we need to stabilise a system around Pogba to fully utilise his obvious talents.

Its still very much a work in progress but we are moving in the right direction, the efforts that some of our many Isaac Billions Blocks are making to try and piss all over the cult of Jose is proof positive of that.

So one trophy in the cabinet.

The chance of another, the missing piece to the silverware puzzle at that, all things considered that's not a bad place to be in for the manager not even in place for 12 months.

spiralism

So, turning to Ajax, what's everybody's thoughts?

Personally i'd be very worried and they'd be favourites in my eyes, a dynamic young team that scores a ton of goals and we're going to be lining up with donkeys at centre back. They'll also play three times less than us between now and the final so i can see a fresh Ajax side running rings around our knackered players in all honesty.

~Rebel~

spiralism wrote: »

So, turning to Ajax, what's everybody's thoughts?

Personally i'd be very worried and they'd be favourites in my eyes, a dynamic young team that scores a ton of goals and we're going to be lining up with donkeys at centre back. They'll also play three times less than us between now and the final so i can see a fresh Ajax side running rings around our knackered players in all honesty.

ManU are heavy favorites with every single bookie, and rightly so.

And with Utd's rotation in the league (only 2 players started against both Arsenal and Celta), doubt fatigue will be an issue.

Mantis Toboggan

Summed up our season last night, score one and sit back, can't stand that negative ****e. Was a really poor performance, up to the goal we were being outplayed by celta ****ing Vigo, awful stuff.

Anyway we hung on in the end. Just about.
The final is massive.