Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Giggsy11

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Disagree strongly, been watching this squad for the last 2 years (excluding the new signings) and they've done nothing to suggest this is a top level squad.

They're a Europa League team.

Happy to have a chance at Champions League next season but Pogba celebrating like he's won the World Cup in the end is embarrassing. Celebrating a semi final win in Europe's B competition having played like muck is not what I'd be looking for in a United player. Imagine Keane, Scholes or whoever doing that.

Embarrassing? Players just made it to the finals after very hard 10 mins in the end and you think it's embarrassing?

Did you think winning league cup and celebrating that was also embarrassing?

When Barca was winning everything in sight, Messi and Iniesta were in tears when they lost ****ing Spanish cup game, do you think that was embarrassing also as they cried as if they lost world cup?

Players want to win the cup and it was very much clear with all the emotions after the game, imagine Scholes, Keane doing this is all bs. Who cares what they would have done, they aren't here and the generation and ManUtd have completely changed.

The_Kew_Tour

I remember Keane being very happy after we won the League Cup Semi final in 2003.(think it was against Blackburn)

Its only the 7th time we have been in European Final.

Mantis Toboggan

What did Keano say last night?

I'm still trying to get my head around wtf happened last night with Baily, anyone make sense of it?
It looked like whatever the guy said he snapped.
Such a shame he's going to miss the final

bucketybuck

spiralism wrote: »

we're going to be lining up with donkeys at centre back.

Is this really going to be the narrative? Because I have seen a few people reference the fact that we might be in trouble if we have to rely on Jones and Smalling at centre back and its a load of tosh.

I'm as fed up as anybody with their injury problems but they are not "dumb and dumber" as one poster put it, they are two perfectly good defenders that have both played a lot of very good games for the club. You don't even have to go back far to find examples of them doing well for us, its only a few months since Jones was playing regularly and receiving lots of plaudits.

One of our defenders got banned and now we have to play what very easily and conceivably could be our first choice defensive pairing anyway, believe me things could be a lot worse than that.

Ed The Equalizer

Ajax the home team so looks like we're wearing blue

Rossi IRL

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

Ajax the home team so looks like we're wearing blue

Happy with that.

Hopefully we get a final commemorative jersey like the home jersey we got for the Southampton cup final.

Another one for the collection

secman

Another poor home performance last night, some United fans are reminding me of pool fans over the last 20 years , europa cup and league cup are hard to be excited about , B rated trophies. To be so far behind Chelsea after the money we have been spending is very very poor and that is the bar to be measured by.
Finishing 6th that's the second tier level, Everton and the likes.
We are bringing stumbling and stuttering to a new level.

Kitsunegari

secman wrote: »

Another poor home performance last night, some United fans are reminding me of pool fans over the last 20 years , europa cup and league cup are hard to be excited about , B rated trophies. To be so far behind Chelsea after the money we have been spending is very very poor and that is the bar to be measured by.
Finishing 6th that's the second tier level, Everton and the likes.
We are bringing stumbling and stuttering to a new level.

We've been absolutely spoiled with success over the years. I'll be very happy to win the Europa League after the past three seasons. It might be a B rated trophy to some but it's still a European Final and surely the reward of Champions League makes the competition worthwhile now.

Mantis Toboggan

secman wrote: »

Another poor home performance last night, some United fans are reminding me of pool fans over the last 20 years , europa cup and league cup are hard to be excited about , B rated trophies. To be so far behind Chelsea after the money we have been spending is very very poor and that is the bar to be measured by.
Finishing 6th that's the second tier level, Everton and the likes.
We are bringing stumbling and stuttering to a new level.

Another half a billion over the summer should sort it out.

ElChe32

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Another half a billion over the summer should sort it out.

yabadabado

We would all love to be still in the title race and having a crack at the CL but the reality is United have been poor the last number of years so even though the EL is very much a secondary competition it's winnable and gives the team the only realistic chance of CL football next season.

Progress has been made this season nowhere near enough but some progress all the same.If we are in the same position next season then there is a problem.

Trigger

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Another half a billion over the summer should sort it out.

Say the line Tyson

StringerBell

kstand wrote: »

Not the point - soon as that decision was made we were consigned to being in the back foot.

But we were on the back foot before Carrick came on.

Its one of the decisions last night I actually take no issue with funnily enough,I can completely understand it, Miki was knackered and they were playing straight through the midfield. Going to solidify and see it out is perfectly fine at that point.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

And sure lads come on, specialists in home draws, we are going through:cool:

TheDoc

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'd love to know what was said that made Bailly react like that.

Was thinking the same. Valencia and Pogba nearby got instantly aggressive and fuming...

mewe

DM_7 wrote:

April and May turned into a slog. Have to try and get through games rather than power through them.


Missed too many chances earlier in the season to build up points in the league that could provide moments to rest and protect players towards seasons end. Those failings are shared by the players and manager. Need to improve results in early games next season.

Yeah that's how I see it aswell.

Hoping for a good start to the season next season.

bryangiggsy

Lads we are brutal and our position in league does not lie. Jury is out on Mourinho for me. Alienating Shaw and Martial.Benching Carrick for first 14 games of season. Sticking with Pogba after so many poor performances. Relying on Fellani. Rashford only getting a proper chance after Ibra is injured. He can have the summer to sort it out but the clock is ticking imo.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its a weird feeling. When I compare it to 99, 08, 09 and 11 semi finals. Yes it was the CL and not Europa but I still have just such a bad stomach after all that

I know the feeling.

I thought we were done in the last kick, and would have been totally what we deserved. Was absolutely fuming at the TV watching what was unfolding, it was crazy.

They are not a good team, midtable La Liga side with one decent player and we somehow allowed them dictate large passages of the game. For 15 minutes by my reckoning, we looked like the favourites at home. IT was a terrible performance.

And I think that does matter regardless of getting through. Team has been in a rut lately, and if it stays in it Ajax will annihilate us.

As a tweet I read last night summed up, our ability to drop our level to poor opposition, and somehow contrive to let them be the better team, is frightening.

TheDoc

StringerBell wrote: »

But we were on the back foot before Carrick came on.

Its one of the decisions last night I actually take no issue with funnily enough,I can completely understand it, Miki was knackered and they were playing straight through the midfield. Going to solidify and see it out is perfectly fine at that point.

Another manager might have noticed Mhiki being poor and losing the ball so much, with a 1-0 lead and decided.

a) I'll bring on Martial here, and with Lingaard, Martial and Rashford blow them away on the counter as they pile forward
b) I'll bring on Mata and move Lingaard out left, and try get the team ticking over some possession.

I do "get" why he brought on Carrick, but it meant moving Herrera out wide who was doing well and it just send the message to the team and Celta "we are on lockdown".

The end justifies the means for me in terms of results but I don't know, his instinctive reaction to go on lockdown just constantly freaks me out because I think the team is fragile defensively and we've had so many funky results and goals conceded trying that tactic, instead of exploiting even more on the counter.

I was watching Mhiki play poor (again) and thought bring on Martial and put them in two minds about piling forward vs defending the counter, the likely result being they will pile forward and we could slice them on the counter.

Trigger

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Lads we are brutal and our position in league does not lie. Jury is out on Mourinho for me. Alienating Shaw and Martial.Benching Carrick for first 14 games of season. Sticking with Pogba after so many poor performances. Relying on Fellani. Rashford only getting a proper chance after Ibra is injured. He can have the summer to sort it out but the clock is ticking imo.

And who realistically would you bring in then? would you then give them a settling in period? How long would you give them?

Realistically for the size of the club there is not a better manager available out there than Jose imo

TheDoc

yabadabado wrote: »

Progress has been made this season nowhere near enough but some progress all the same.If we are in the same position next season then there is a problem.

Is the progress being talked about the Europa League? Because there has been no progress in the league.

The final, Ajax, will constitute our first actual tough game in this competition in the knockout stages. Last season we hit Liverpool in the round of 16

Obviously can only beat what if put in front of you, but lets not kid ourselves, this has been an incredible easy run to the final, and the Europa League this year has been incredibly easier with some big names not in the mix this time round. That we are in the final, to be honest should be a bit of an expectation when you look at the teams that have taken part.

bucketybuck

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Alienating Shaw and Martial

Two lads that have done nothing for a long time now. (And Martial has played 38 times this season, some alienation that)

Benching Carrick for first 14 games of season

We are better without Carrick.

Sticking with Pogba after so many poor performances.

We should be sticking with Pogba

Relying on Fellani

We don't rely on Felliani, he is a squad player and doesn't play every game when available.

Rashford only getting a proper chance after Ibra is injured.

Rashford is on 50 appearances for the season. Some job getting to 50 games without getting a proper chance.

He can have the summer to sort it out but the clock is ticking imo.

If the clock is ticking I hope it's for better reasons than I read on here.

bennyineire

astradave wrote: »

And who realistically would you bring in then? would you then give them a settling in period? How long would you give them?

Realistically for the size of the club there is not a better manager available out there than Jose imo

Carlo Ancelotti would have been a far better choice IMHO, that man has class to

Trigger

bennyineire wrote: »

Carlo Ancelotti would have been a far better choice IMHO, that man has class to

He has also recently never really had to build a team in fairness and that is what is needed at United

adox

Look, I get the criticism of the manager and the team, the performances etc.

It is valid to a point. But people just seem to be forgetting where the club was when Jose took the reigns. Ive said it before but I`ll say it again. there is no magic wand. Its going to take time. Its a consequence of the club tripping over itself to make the wrong decisions and its in actions.

I`m not making excuses for Jose. he has made mistakes and last night was awful to watch for the most part. But a bit of perspective is needed when shooting from the hip with the criticism.

Overall, despite the negatives, the stupid amount of draws, some terrible displays, I`m happier than I have been since Fergie left. When looking through the fog of negativity I can see progress and am hopeful for a more consistent season next season.

beno619

How do people feel about Morata ? seems to fit the bill as far as being a Jose style forward.

Liam O

beno619 wrote: »

How do people feel about Morata ? seems to fit the bill as far as being a Jose style forward.

Doesn't score enough goals.

Mantis Toboggan

All the abuse Van Gaal got yet he had us in 5th, Jose has us in 6th. Given Jose spent 150 odd million on players in the summer then it's very disappointing and very hard to see any progress being made there. Lose to Ajax is unthinkable at this stage as is another year in the europa League.

jaykay74

I haven't been to a cup final before involving United so looking forward to this one! Stressful having gotten tickets before the quarters though waiting to see if I really had tickets for some random dull final.

beakerjoe

A few here seem to be unhappy with our tactics last night, complaining of our defensive nature after going 1 up. My theory on those tactics are simple : Jose simply hasn’t the believe that our defence is strong enough to be an attacking team.

In the days of Fergie, we always had at least 3 fantastic defenders in a team. Rio, Vidic, Neville, Stam, Irwin, and we always had a commanding, solid back bone. I believe United don’t have that yet.

Bailey, while having a good season, is still relatively new and young. Blind, while having a great work ethic, has many flaws. Smalling is a liability, jones is injury prone, Valencia is a converted right winger, Darmian is not a top player.

I don’t blame Jose for his tactics, we simply haven’t a good enough squad to be an out and out attacking force. Our defence is not good enough and Jose cant rely on the back four. The bulk of the squad have not been good enough for 3 seasons prior to Jose. Jose has only added 4 players to the squad, 3 of which played last night.

After the first goal, it made sense to shut up shop (and I think its justified by the result). If we went gung ho and tried to kill off the game, a counter attacking team like Vigo would find holes in our defence.

We got the result and Jose is doing the best with what players hes got.

To those saying they cant see any progress this year, We will have the same points tally than last year plus a possible European trophy and UCL football. It’s an improvement.

adox

Tyson Fury wrote: »

All the abuse Van Gaal got yet he had us in 5th, Jose has us in 6th. Given Jose spent 150 odd million on players in the summer then it's very disappointing and very hard to see any progress being made there. Lose to Ajax is unthinkable at this stage as is another year in the europa League.

Looking at league positions as a barometer in Joses first season is an extremely simple way of looking at things.

No one is ignoring all the points dropped in the draws throughout the season but its folly to judge his first season on results and results alone.

beakerjoe

adox wrote: »

Looking at league positions as a barometer in Joses first season is an extremely simple way of looking at things.

No one is ignoring all the points dropped in the draws throughout the season but its folly to judge his first season on results and results alone.

Exactly, its a work in progress. Learning which players he trusts and rates etc may take a few months at the very least.

Lord TSC

In his post match interview, Jose said he was calling on players to push up, but their nerves seemed to encourage them to ignore him and stay in a defensive mindset. He said, ultimately, he brought on Carrick instead of Martial or Mata because he could see the players were retreating into their box and wanted to give them support for that.

We're a single game off the Champions League now. I'm not going to argue the season hasn't been a bit of a disappointment, but life is a spectrum, not binary. On the spectrum, once we couldn't win the Premier League, then (provided we win the EL, which isn't a given at all) 2 cups and champions league is a decent first season in the context of the last four seasons. Not perfect, but a very solid foundation to build on this summer.

I'm very, very curious to see how the summer goes. Excited too. We're one game off the CL now. One game to define the final position on that spectrum.

Past30Now

Tyson Fury wrote: »

All the abuse Van Gaal got yet he had us in 5th, Jose has us in 6th.

TheDoc wrote: »

Is the progress being talked about the Europa League? Because there has been no progress in the league.

I look forward to our matches again. I ceased looking forward to them when LVG was in charge. We might still be defensive, but at least we play something approaching football again. Mourinho has plenty of faults, and is less than perfect, but he's miles better for us than LVG ever was. Hopefully we will have won two trophies and got a place in the CL by the end of the season.

Even if we lose to Ajax, we are in a far better place than we were under LVG. We'll be going into the season with three or four new players, he'll have shipped out one or two that he won't rely on. The team will be stronger, both from an attacking and defensive viewpoint, and hopefully more consistent.

The phrase "the league table doesn't lie" doesn't seem correct in this instance. I certainly had no belief in LVG or his methods as the season wore on last year. The fact that he finished 5th didn't give me any comfort. IMO Jose is a better boss.

Mantis Toboggan

adox wrote: »

Looking at league positions as a barometer in Joses first season is an extremely simple way of looking at things.

No one is ignoring all the points dropped in the draws throughout the season but its folly to judge his first season on results and results alone.

True but as they say the league doesn't lie.

It's Conte's first season too and they're 19 points ahead.

beakerjoe

Tyson Fury wrote: »

True but as they say the league doesn't lie.

It's Conte's first season too and they're 19 points ahead.

He inherited a much more talented squad IMO.

StringerBell

TheDoc wrote: »

Another manager might have noticed Mhiki being poor and losing the ball so much, with a 1-0 lead and decided.

a) I'll bring on Martial here, and with Lingaard, Martial and Rashford blow them away on the counter as they pile forward
b) I'll bring on Mata and move Lingaard out left, and try get the team ticking over some possession.

I do "get" why he brought on Carrick, but it meant moving Herrera out wide who was doing well and it just send the message to the team and Celta "we are on lockdown".

The end justifies the means for me in terms of results but I don't know, his instinctive reaction to go on lockdown just constantly freaks me out because I think the team is fragile defensively and we've had so many funky results and goals conceded trying that tactic, instead of exploiting even more on the counter.

I was watching Mhiki play poor (again) and thought bring on Martial and put them in two minds about piling forward vs defending the counter, the likely result being they will pile forward and we could slice them on the counter.

I doubt it would have put them in two minds about it, they were piling forward all game, they were left open to counters all game. The players were not committed forward in those moments to properly capitalise on those opportunities.

Make no mistake, Vigo had nothing to lose, the whole season for them has been based on the EL,they have rested players constantly in the league, this was their main target. They were not going to be worried about Martial coming on.

For the majority of the season Jose has made like for like or attacking substitutions to be fair to him also, and Buckety makes a pretty good point about him probably not having faith that bringing on Martial is going to get us another goal, he isn't great for defending either so the logic for bringing on Carrick is ok for me,Miki was bollixed, he was losing the ball too much at that point, you could point to Mata but again you need to consider how fit he really is and being honest, when the chips are down and you need to fight he isn't one to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and get the team playing. Jose looking to go to a 4141 to see it out and try shore up the midfield is better served with Carrick then either of the wide players.

Rooney actually did alright in what his job was when he came on, knew what was required and just got on with it.

I am not sure I have ever been angrier with a positive outcome to a match but the final 15 minutes or so I had no problem with really, when your midfield is getting overrun you and you have a tenuous lead to protect you look to shut up shop, semi final of a European competition and all. The other team are not going to do anything other then throw everything at you.

TheDoc

Liam O wrote: »

Doesn't score enough goals.

Second highest scorer for Madrid this year. Considering who is first....

Scored more then Benzema despite playing incredibly less. I don't rate him at the evaluations he gets in terms of figures, but he is a decent number 9

yabadabado

TheDoc wrote: »

Is the progress being talked about the Europa League? Because there has been no progress in the league.

Imo we have improved our overall play from LVG it's still not great a lot of the time but we are at least creating chances.
If you wanna pick out progress based on the league it probably not a great barometer but we have 65 points with 9 to play for.
I'd be surprised if we don't finish ahead of last seasons total.

Cookiemunster

beakerjoe wrote: »

He inherited a much more talented squad IMO.

Exactly. He inherited a squad that won the league two years ago. Jose inherited a squad that finished 5th, 4th and 7th in the last 3 seasons. A bit of perspective is needed here.
Has Jose been perfect? No he hasn't. He's made plenty of mistakes, but quoting the amount of money spent last summer is pointless seeing as he only brought in 4 players. After this year when 8 or 9 of the players are his, he'll have no excuse.

bucketybuck

yabadabado wrote: »

Imo we have improved our overall play from LVG it's still not great a lot of the time but we are at least creating chances.
If you wanna pick out progress based on the league it probably not a great barometer but we have 65 points with 9 to play for.
I'd be surprised if we don't finish ahead of last seasons total.

This argument also ignores one thing, that we would have needed to improve in every single area to increase our points total under Van Gaal, while this season improving in just one thing, chance conversion, would have seen us hugely better off points wise.

Thats an important thing, we were miles off being good enough under Van Gaal and not that far at all under Mourinho.

Robson99

Last minute open goal miss away from going out. Only 40% possession at home against a piss poor team.
6th in the league. Mikateryan martial and Rashford playing mist of the season as full backs. Fellani as our no 10.Negative tactics. Excuses on here because a. Poor defence b. We miss to many chances.
One reason Jose and his poor style of football and its not going to change

ShaneU

His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy. He missed an open goal already, John Guidetti.

Rekop dog

Even if they do beat Lyon it's going to be an group stage exit for this side in next seasons CL. So so far off elite standard at the moment.

statto25

Rekop dog wrote: »

Even if they do beat Lyon it's going to be an group stage exit for this side in next seasons CL. So so far off elite standard at the moment.

Lyon were knocked out. We will upgrade during the summer so its a bit early to say United will be out in the group stages, especially when the flipping final hasnt even been played.

ElChe32

Rekop dog wrote: »

Even if they do beat Lyon it's going to be an group stage exit for this side in next seasons CL. So so far off elite standard at the moment.

Wha?

StringerBell

Rekop dog wrote: »

Even if they do beat Lyon it's going to be an group stage exit for this side in next seasons CL. So so far off elite standard at the moment.

Well you do seem to have a good grasp on things.....

Finger on the pulse as they say

Mantis Toboggan

I'd agree with that, excuses need to end, I'm not buying this rebuilding lark either.

Jose loves a good excuse but he needs to stop hiding behind them and take responsibility for the performances.

Cantona's Collars

From Ian Ladyman:

For those fond of such curiosities, the last goals scored in a European semi-final at Old Trafford prior to this night came from Antonio Valencia, Darron Gibson and the Brazilian heavyweight Anderson.

Proof, then, that a goal from the head of Marouane Fellaini is not as out of kilter with the great traditions of this club as some may think.

On a night of great drama at Old Trafford, the underlying narrative of Manchester United's season remained intact.
Another 'make do and mend' performance towards the end of a 'make do and mend' season and Jose Mourinho has guided his new club in to major final number two.

Fellaini, then, was the perfect scorer of what was ultimately the goal that separated these two teams.

Fellaini is the modern United's dirty secret, the big nuisance-value player they would like to think they don't need but ultimately really do.

Here he arrived at the far post to head Marcus Rashford's early cross in to the goal. It seemed a big goal at the time.
By the time Celta Vigo – the 12th best team in Spain – had come close to writing one of Old Trafford's greatest ever stories in the 96th minute, it appeared even bigger.

This was some night in Manchester. United have been many things under Mourinho this season. Stubborn, organised, resilient, dogged. Rarely, though, has their enduring sense of vulnerability had us hefted to the edge of our seats as it did here.

They were poor over the course of this second leg. Despite their early goal, United couldn't command the ball and couldn't stop Vigo getting in behind their full-backs to cause problems.

The bookmakers will probably have them as favourites for the final against Ajax in Stockholm but in truth they should not.
Still, though, it is hard not to admire United's modern pluck, hard not to admire the way Mourinho has managed to drag them through nine months of mediocre, cautious football to a second big cup final.

Think about that for a moment. Two cup finals, one already won. Think of the 'progressive' teams ahead of United in the Premier League and think of what they have won. Liverpool, nothing. Tottenham, nothing. Manchester City, nothing.

So no wonder Mourinho believes in his methods, even at the end of nights like this. Even when his team is a million miles away from where he would like it to be, Mourinho achieves.

United do not do buccaneering football under Mourinho and maybe never will. They do goals from headers and set pieces and then they refuse to budge at the other end.
United do results and this has been the beauty – even if it's a strange word – of Mourinho's first season.

Whatever happens in Stockholm, Mourinho has already done what Louis van Gaal and David Moyes could not do before him.

Those two men, both experienced managers, could not make the necessary adjustments and do the groundwork for long-term improvement while keeping results at an acceptable level.

From this point of view, Mourinho apes the great Sir Alex Ferguson. The main reason the two men have always got along is that looking at each other is, at least in part, like looking in a mirror.

Get the most from what you have, understand that the result is everything. Find a way to get all your players – even the ordinary ones – moving you forwards.

There was no glory here, not unless you count Vigo's glorious failure. The United supporters singing Mourinho's name with 15 minutes left were watching from behind their hands at the end.

The lasting image of the night was that of Vigo striker John Guidetti banging the turf in frustration long after United had left the arena. The summer will be a long one for the man who missed the big chance of the game.

His season is over but Fellaini's is not.

The 29-year-old, remember, is a player whose greatest asset was once described by Moyes as 'his chest trap'.

The fact that he can be taken to a European final by Mourinho suggests that, much as this current team divides opinion, the United manager must be doing something right.