Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

adox

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think the fairest way to judge how good a team has been is through league performance. United have been poor this season.

I don't think they have been overall, especially compared to last season. The number of draws has been very frustrating alright and the league position is disappointing too but, the standard of football has increased greatly overall while still being more or less as defensively sound.
The last few weeks have been underwhelming and it does feel like the team and the season is running out of steam but that shouldn't be used as a barometer for the whole season overall.

GSPfan

Tyson Fury wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that. Anyone wanting us to lose a final isn't a fan imo.

Never said they want us to lose but they'd see an opportunity to be smug about it.

Liam McPoyle

Korat wrote: »

I'll be disappointed with the season if we don't win the EL and therefore qualify for the CL next season. On the other hand if we finish with two trophies and CL qualification then the season will have exceeded my expectations.

It all comes down to one game.

It looks like we are going to end up sixth in the league so that is massively disappointing, even though with 3 games to play we are just one point off last years total, our home form has been very poor, mostly due to poor finishing however tactically, Jose has to shoulder the blame for some of it.

Winning the EL would hugely make up for poor league campaign but that's only because it's Jose's first season.

If by this time next year we are not involved at the top of the table then questions will be asked.

Mantis Toboggan

GSPfan wrote: »

Never said they want us to lose but they'd see an opportunity to be smug about it.

Oh make no mistake there will be major criticism of the team and players if we lose the final. Will be a failed season imo and criticism will be warranted.

deaddonkey15

adox wrote: »

I don't think they have been overall, especially compared to last season. The number of draws has been very frustrating alright and the league position is disappointing too but, the standard of football has increased greatly overall while still being more or less as defensively sound.
The last few weeks have been underwhelming and it does feel like the team and the season is running out of steam but that shouldn't be used as a barometer for the whole season overall.

The league table doesn't lie.

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The league table doesn't lie.

I'd agree it doesn't, but the entirety of critical analysis shouldn't boil down to "We're sixth", no more than it did under LVG or Moyes. I always said if I had seen signs of progress under either of those two, I wouldn't have been so quick to turn on them, but I have seen it under Jose, so stick by him.

I think it was Bucky who said it yesterday; the league position may be the same, but there's a single problem to be fixed this season (goal scoring) as opposed to the 10 or so we faced under LVG. The league position, frustratingly, doesn't reflect it, but Jose is going into the transfer window with a far stronger hand than LVG ever did.

Minderbinder

GSPfan wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote: »

Our approach to almost every big game this season has been embarrassing. Just so so negative.

Ah here now. Apart from Liverpool, City, and Arsenal away I wouldn't say we approached any other game in an embarrassing manor. I wouldn't even call the Liverpool away game embarrassing as Liverpool employed similar tactics against us in both games which resulted in awful games. We dominated Liverpool at home. We were a calamity against City at home and Chelsea away in the league.

Liverpool's approach to a game doesn't justify our approach. I'd say it's hard to judge the Chelsea away game as whatever the game plan it was out the window within a minute. Having said that it would not be outrageous to assume the plan was a negative one.

Maybe I was over the top saying it was embarrassing as the timing of some of those games meant it was a pragmatic approach.

I would hope we can give the big teams a much tougher test next season though.

Bleating Lamb

With young kids on the scene I have far less time for watching European /South American Soccer,so could some of you more clued in people post a realistic list of potential defensive midfielders we could sign to do the Makelele or Kante role next season?
Prob needs to be someone in their mid twenties who has played at a decent level...I don't ask for much:)....
As an aside imo Utd would have being far better off going after and getting Kante last season to replace Carrick than going for Pogba.

Hococop

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

With young kids on the scene I have far less time for watching European /South American Soccer,so could some of you more clued in people post a realistic list of potential defensive midfielders we could sign to do the Makelele or Kante role next season?
Prob needs to be someone in their mid twenties who has played at a decent level...I don't ask for much:)....
As an aside imo Utd would have being far better off going after and getting Kante last season to replace Carrick than going for Pogba.

We might have but he might have preferred Chelsea

DARK-KNIGHT

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

With young kids on the scene I have far less time for watching European /South American Soccer,so could some of you more clued in people post a realistic list of potential defensive midfielders we could sign to do the Makelele or Kante role next season?
Prob needs to be someone in their mid twenties who has played at a decent level...I don't ask for much:)....
As an aside imo Utd would have being far better off going after and getting Kante last season to replace Carrick than going for Pogba.

we should have went all out to get them both

Getting pogba was a masterclass imo

Fantastic player who came back to the club from a super juve team

He

Lord TSC

You're presuming we didn't try for Kante. Chances are we did, as did every big team, and he simply opted for Chelsea ahead of us.

pjohnson

Well Morgan was one of the best defensive midfielders but couldnt break into the side. Would Madrid part with Casemiro?

irishman86

Eric Dier and Fabinho is who Id go after

pjohnson

irishman86 wrote: »

Eric Dier and Fabinho is who Id go after

Fabinho was a right back until few months ago.

Toobz

pjohnson wrote: »

Fabinho was a right back until few months ago.

Cant see how that matters?

pjohnson

Toobz wrote: »

Cant see how that matters?

A player who can play two positions doesn't matter? Is versatility bad now?

GSPfan

irishman86 wrote: »

Eric Dier and Fabinho is who Id go after

Exactly this. If we spend £70 million on them two alone I'd be delighted. Two very versatile defensive players who would complement Pogba and Herrera who in my eyes are more forward thinking.

Mantis Toboggan

Signing a defensive midfielder just leads into playing a conservative game with negative tactics. I'd much prefer us to buy a ball playing midfielder.

Sort out the attaching play first, get back to scoring 70+ goals per season, if it's apparent we're conceding too many goals then certainly look to shore it up in midfield. It's much easier to get better defensively than it is to get better offensively. Defensive midfielders are largely over rated although I'm a big fan of Kante, but then he offers much more than that.

Bleating Lamb

Lord TSC wrote: »

You're presuming we didn't try for Kante. Chances are we did, as did every big team, and he simply opted for Chelsea ahead of us.

In this day and age with all social media etc I think it is fair to say if Utd had made any real efforts to get Kante it would have leaked out at some stage over the summer or since that.

I also agree that Pogba and Kante were targetable and chances are Kante may well have come if he knew we were going to have Pogba playing beside him.

I'm glad I have opened a discussion on guys we should be going after to replace Carrick.
Saw someone mention Strootman before....how has he done since coming back from knee injuries?

GSPfan

In fact let me do a shopping list:

Solid older Left Back - £15 million
Dier - £35 million
Fabinho - £35 million
Griezmann or Bale - £85 million

That is £170 million and I think it's realistic.


Possible sales:

Martial - £60 million - replaced by James?
De Gea - £50 million - replaced by Oblak?

Bleating Lamb

GSPfan wrote: »

Exactly this. If we spend £70 million on them two alone I'd be delighted. Two very versatile defensive players who would complement Pogba and Herrera who in my eyes are more forward thinking.

Are Spurs not looking for 50m Sterling for Dier alone?....in other words Levy doesn't want to sell him!

IMO he is a limited enough player esp if he costed that much! Dier does not have much of a range of passing and passes the ball sideways too much when playing in dm role for Spurs.

Is Fabinho a better player.?

GSPfan

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Are Spurs not looking for 50m Sterling for Dier alone?....in other words Levy doesn't want to sell him!

IMO he is a limited enough player esp if he costed that much! Dier does not have much of a range of passing and passes the ball sideways too much when playing in dm role for Spurs.

Is Fabinho a better player.?

Apparently Dier is a United fan and wants to move. With a bump in wages he would push for the move so £50 million is way above what he is worth even in this market. £35 million is the fee I'd expect and even that is about £10 million more than he is worth.

Fabinho is very very good. Can play right back and DM so covers two positions in an injury prone team. That's a great asset. Dier can play centre half too.

Bleating Lamb

GSPfan wrote: »

Apparently Dier is a United fan and wants to move. With a bump in wages he would push for the move so £50 million is way above what he is worth even in this market. £35 million is the fee I'd expect and even that is about £10 million more than he is worth.

Fabinho is very very good. Can play right back and DM so covers two positions in an injury prone team. That's a great asset. Dier can play centre half too.

What age is Fabinho....do you think my assessment of Dier is harsh or accurate?

deaddonkey15

GSPfan wrote: »

In fact let me do a shopping list:

Solid older Left Back - £15 million
Dier - £35 million
Fabinho - £35 million
Griezmann or Bale - £85 million

That is £170 million and I think it's realistic.


Possible sales:

Martial - £60 million - replaced by James?
De Gea - £50 million - replaced by Oblak?

It would be such a shame if we sold Martial. He's a very talented player.

GSPfan

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

What age is Fabinho....do you think my assessment of Dier is harsh or accurate?

Fabinho is 23. Scores a goal every 5 games so not bad for a right back/DM.

Is your assessment of Dier harsh???..... Probably not as I can see why you would say that but I rarely get on here and debate players who don't play for United as I don't watch them enough but I'll admit I am a fan of Spurs and watch every game I can and his stature, his physicality, his composure is really good. He has a goal in him too and can strike a ball very well. To be honest if Carrick has carved out a United career to be proud of then Dier has every chance to do the same.

GSPfan

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It would be such a shame if we sold Martial. He's a very talented player.

You're dead right, it would be a shame, but I can see it happening. PSG will have to react to losing the league so I reckon they would be willing to fork out the fee. Id rather Martial over James any day.

jayo26

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The league table doesn't lie.

It does lie pool won the league in October but they are fourth now...

Little CuChulainn

GSPfan wrote: »

You're dead right, it would be a shame, but I can see it happening. PSG will have to react to losing the league so I reckon they would be willing to fork out the fee. Id rather Martial over James any day.

If we don't sell him this summer we may not be able to buy him back for €200m in a few years.

bucketybuck

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Oh make no mistake there will be major criticism of the team and players if we lose the final. Will be a failed season imo and criticism will be warranted.

If people feel that way then they should have the balls to shout out that major criticism before the final. Say right now that it is a failed season, judge everything that happened this season right now, because what happens in one particular cup game will not have changed everything that happened in the preceding nine months. If its a failed season after the cup final then it was a failed season before the cup final.

The_Kew_Tour

Am I only person who thinks Dier is overrated?

Lithium93_

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Am I only person who thinks Dier is overrated?

No.

pjohnson

35m for Dier?

Has someone been playing Football Manager.

Sterling and Stones were both over 40m.

Dier has 4 years left on his contract. Spurs have no need to sell. It would be at least 50m to be near getting him.

JamboMac

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Am I only person who thinks Dier is overrated?

This is thanks to sky sports news and the general English media.

Donnielighto

If ibra stays or we get a big centre forward who can hold it up and play in others I'd like to see us play them as a deeper forward, pull the CBS out and play in the wingers​, we've pacey lads who can take a shot and it would allow pogba and the other cm come forward for ranged ones as a threat. We need to utilise the speed and athleticism to get through I think, slow build up play is killing us against team particularly at home.

Of course if the CBS don't follow the forward should have space to work in.

Toobz

pjohnson wrote: »

A player who can play two positions doesn't matter? Is versatility bad now?

Apologies, I thought you meant it as a bad thing!

JamboMac

If the stories are right Rooney is going home and we get lukaku, does that then mean no griezzman?

Lukaku would take over from ibrahimovic very easily, plus he has extra pace. He seems like mourinhos typical cf aswell.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

If people feel that way then they should have the balls to shout out that major criticism before the final. Say right now that it is a failed season, judge everything that happened this season right now, because what happens in one particular cup game will not have changed everything that happened in the preceding nine months. If its a failed season after the cup final then it was a failed season before the cup final.

Domestically, it is an incredibly disappointing season. I've already posted here that I reckon Mourinho has a lot to answer for if the Europa League not delivered.

GSPfan

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Am I only person who thinks Dier is overrated?

He is overrated but only because some media have him priced at £50 million. He is a very good player and would do very well with us but £25 million is about right for him.

pjohnson

GSPfan wrote: »

He is overrated but only because some media have him priced at £50 million. He is a very good player and would do very well with us but £25 million is about right for him.

What media? What English player has actually moved for their value recently? The facts are

*He has 4 years remaining so they've no fear of him leaving on a free so no possible bargain like possible with Barkley (1 year left).
*He is English so they have a price premium so there is a tax on that since Homegrowns are a necessity.
*We are a big club, bigger clubs are always forced to pay more since the selling club KNOWS the extra money is there.

irishman86

pjohnson wrote: »

Fabinho was a right back until few months ago.

Also incorrect, he has played right back yes but he has played often in midfield for Monaco before this season. He was also a standout at rb which for me makes his ability in midfield even more impressive

GSPfan

pjohnson wrote: »

What media?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3546949/eric-diers-a-48m-man-utd-target-here-are-five-reasons-why-spurs-hybrid-midfielder-is-perfect-for-old-trafford/

pjohnson

irishman86 wrote: »

Also incorrect, he has played right back yes but he has played often in midfield for Monaco before this season. He was also a standout at rb which for me makes his ability in midfield even more impressive

Nothing incorrect really. He was regarded as a natural RB who sometimes covered in midfield. He has now morphed into central midfield being his most natural position and occasionally covering RB. Similar to how Antonio was most definitely a Right Winger when he joined us but he is very much a Right Back now.

GSPfan

pjohnson wrote: »

What English player has actually moved for their value recently?

Milner, on a free.

pjohnson

GSPfan wrote: »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3546949/eric-diers-a-48m-man-utd-target-here-are-five-reasons-why-spurs-hybrid-midfielder-is-perfect-for-old-trafford/

Who the hell pays the blindest bit of notice to The Sun?

irishman86

pjohnson wrote: »

Nothing incorrect really. He was regarded as a natural RB who sometimes covered in midfield. He has now morphed into central midfield being his most natural position and occasionally covering RB. Similar to how Antonio was most definitely a Right Winger when he joined us but he is very much a Right Back now.

I dont think he started at rb, he was played at Monaco there due to the weakness at rb and they had players in midfield. Although I misread the context of your first post where I thought you were using where he used to play as a criticism

GSPfan

pjohnson wrote: »

Who the hell pays the blindest bit of notice to The Sun?

Obviously not you. But a lot of people regurgitate their shíte and talk about it as fact.

Bleating Lamb

So lads lets get back to the what cdm's are available to sign this summer discussion.

Is Strootman a busted flush?
Is there any young up and coming cdm doing well in Portuguese/Italian/Spanish/ German leagues seeing as Fabinho seems like the French league pick.

Giggsy11

pjohnson wrote: »

What media? What English player has actually moved for their value recently? The facts are

*He has 4 years remaining so they've no fear of him leaving on a free so no possible bargain like possible with Barkley (1 year left).
*He is English so they have a price premium so there is a tax on that since Homegrowns are a necessity.
*We are a big club, bigger clubs are always forced to pay more since the selling club KNOWS the extra money is there.

Eric Dier is not home grown player. He is home grown for Portuguese clubs.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/84136

Cotts72

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

So lads lets get back to the what cdm's are available to sign this summer discussion.

Is Strootman a busted flush?
Is there any young up and coming cdm doing well in Portuguese/Italian/Spanish/ German leagues seeing as Fabinho seems like the French league pick.

I've always considered strootman to be perfect for our midfield ,just a shame he's had injury problems!

Liked the look of tielelmans last month would be a solid investment

matuidi seems to be available and rabiot is unhappy,lets raid pig

pjohnson

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Eric Dier is not home grown player. He is home grown for Portuguese clubs.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/84136

Excellent point. Completely forgot about his actual academy time being with Sporting! That does decrease his value. Just the bloody 4 year contract problem now ha.