Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

paulbok

RockSalto wrote: »

I won't be as forgiving next season though.

As a matter of interest, what does everyone think is the minimum for next season?

domestically, not just top 4, but a decent title challenge, still in with a chance with 6-8 games to go.
Jose should be in trouble if this isn't the case.
Good run in one of the cups,

Assuming we make the Cl, then Qf is the minimum. Even with a fantastic transfer window, I can't see the team being good enough by next spring to get passed the Euro elite.

From the team, more goals. Kill off games rather than hanging on with one goal and ending up with a poxy draw. I know it's obvious but it's been our downfall more than anything else this year.

A bigger magic sponge.

RockSalto

RockSalto wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what does everyone think is the minimum for next season?

A genuine PL title challenge
Sustainable progression in the CL if we manage to get in, not just in it for lolz.

bennyineire

paulbok wrote: »

domestically, not just top 4, but a decent title challenge, still in with a chance with 6-8 games to go.
Jose should be in trouble if this isn't the case.
Good run in one of the cups,

Assuming we make the Cl, then Qf is the minimum. Even with a fantastic transfer window, I can't see the team being good enough by next spring to get passed the Euro elite.

From the team, more goals. Kill off games rather than hanging on with one goal and ending up with a poxy draw. I know it's obvious but it's been our downfall more than anything else this year.

A bigger magic sponge.

SO basically a cup team ?

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

You'd have to imagine signing James is a signal Jose wants to play 4-2-3-1. But the idea of Griezmann sitting in front of James and Pogba seems like Fifa talk :P

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Looks like it will be a 4231 so

Defence
Hererra - Pogba
Mkhitaryan - James - Rashford?
Griezman?

Attacking wise that excites me apart from the lack of height but defensively that scares me

Said this here the other day if United sign James it looks like Jose trying to replicate his Chelsea formation from 2 year ago 4231.

But I don't think we will sign griezmann if we do it will be a player like lukaku or beloti.

James is more if a right sided attacking midfielder so i would have mkhitartan behind the striker and James out wide right.

Would pogba play further forward and left if we sign a new defensive midfielder it be closer to his role at juve.

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/864420131237179393

HigginsJ

Haven't seen too much of James, very unsure of him as a signing. If he is being moved at his agents will he could easily go the way of Di Maria and I wouldn't be surprised.

If James does come in then you would have to imagine Mata would be moved along to balance out the books a bit as it would be pointless having Rashford, Martial, Mhki, Lingard, James & Mata for 2 spots really, I assume we will get a new DM to go with Herrera and free up Pogba a bit.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/864420131237179393

paulbok

bennyineire wrote: »

SO basically a cup team ?

No, not like Arsenal, I mentioned a serious stab at the league.:)
By that reckoning everyone who doesn't win the league is a cup team.

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/864420131237179393

Not surprising, given Sky's news this morning. Wouldn't see it as them having inside knowledge. More just closing things down temporarily while they figure things out.

Lord TSC

I'd worry James signing is also bad news for Mata; you'd imagine our three behind the striker would be James, Mkhi and either Rashford/Griezmann (with the other up front). Lingard will probably be happy to play bench player, but I'd fear Mata might opt to move on as a result.

v3ttel

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry my correction, it was in relation to the gap to the champions

Sorry, but that is totally and utterly pointless. Chelsea had a 31 point gap to the champions last season. Leicester had a 46 point gap to the champions the year before they won the league.

Moyes won nothing. Mourinho has won a trophy, potential for a second one and champions league qualification. With Moyes we lost at home to Everton, Swansea, Newcastle, West Brom. With Mourinho we've had the longest unbeaten streak in the clubs PL history. Moyes had lost the fans and the majority of Old Trafford are firmly behind Mourinho, there are reasons why he is being trusted.

It's not been great in the Premier League this season, but to try and make out that Moyes & Mourinho are equivalent using meaningless measure is ridiculous, man. Stop letting your dislike of Mourinho from looking at things objectively.

Two trophies & Champions League would be an acceptable season but the finishing position in the league is an obvious concern, but with his track record I think he can turn that around next season (for a variety of reasons). Mourinho has improved things generally

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

There it is again. Didn't even read the rest of you're post. Having a little look down at people who dare question what has happened this season.

You need to accept you are pushing your opinion on what you deem to be progress and success and you are using your own metrics, metrics only measurable to you.

The fact that you can't see the improvement in play under Jose really is an indictment of your ability to understand what is playing out on the pitch. But here are some numbers to back up the claim: The Table is the Same - Has Mourinho Improved Manchester United?

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

How ironic, you have zero credibility so I stopped reading yours months ago.

Bit of irony there as well.

That's a serious looking table!

GSPfan

Two things I hate at the moment are people saying there's no improvement in our play, and we are the most expensive team ever assembled.

We are by far a better team to watch and harder to beat. And the cost of the squad is of no importance to anything.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that you can't see the improvement in play under Jose really is an indictment of your ability to understand what is playing out on the pitch. But here are some numbers to back up the claim: The Table is the Same - Has Mourinho Improbed Manchester United?

Again, cycles and roundabouts regarding the perception of the progress of the style or play, when that is not what is the problem.

I happily accept at times or in parts the team is playing much better. But only at times, in others its more regressive and defensive than anything that's happened previous. And all that is fine.

There is clearly an issue with perception and what is being deemed as noteworthy progress. People are happy to point to the progress seen in style and play as a good barometer to be positive and that's fine.

I'm not happy with the fact the team has had a poor league campaign, where "progression" has not taken place, considering there was another season where our rivals were abject in parts and only two teams really looked decent.

I'll happily read your link shortly, that looks interesting, but I'd still stand by my point that regarding when people are outlining how they are perceiving the progress or style change, it's their own personal bearings and feelings on the situation. And that is fine to have, its just incredibly frustrating when people are putting forward their "feelings" as some form of fact or truth, and belittling or trying to derail everyone else and don't seem to want to engage our even outline why they feel this way or what specific to them has them in this mood, instead just having little pot shots at people in the mindset like me.

I've tried outlining where I'm coming from, but I just get the overwhelming opinion that people think I'm mental or something, where there is little being shown to outline their own viewpoint or stance.

There are the metrics and measurements that are unavoidable and unquestionable, the league standing, goals scored, chance conversion etc. And those that are not in tangible form, mood, outlook, feeling, emotion. Thats the sort of stuff thats fascinating me this season, as looking from a high level. You all know I have an interest in some obscure stuff around football, be it media or how fan opinion is formed, and this is has been an incredible season to see some of the sways and changes. And I'm just trying to figure it out. Cause I don't think I've gone through it, or have gone through it differently.

And pops are welcome at how I read/interpret or understand the game. There is a certain point where I don't know, if people arn't willing to conceed to some issues raised when we have the home form we have, against the teams we drew against, then it does feel like there is no point in engaging.

I will say from my own perspective, while at times this season has felt REALLY progressive and better, like, wow **** is going well here, there is also times where it feels terrible, it feels regressive and it feels hopeless. And there was those same times under Van Gaal one minute there is a run of performances where it feels like it was going to click, only for it to stumble and fall apart. This team has been one step forward two steps back for three years. I'd maybe be more assured in having the positivity if it was a consistent run of good form, performances and results. I just don't really understand how you can have some without the other. Of course you can win when not playing well, or you can lose while playing well, but they are the edge cases. They are the consistency, they arn't the mean. Our results coupled with our ability to score goals doesn't have me believing things are much better or immeasurably better. I just don't think it's been consistent enough for me to be totally assured. It's been scattered like it has for the two seasons before it.

I definitely do not feel the unshakable belief that Mourinho and this team are on the right path as some others do but I'm happy to wait and see.

bucketybuck

But here are some numbers to back up the claim: The Table is the Same - Has Mourinho Improved Manchester United?

An interesting quote from that analysis:

Interestingly, there?s a lot of joy from the left channel, presumably from an inverted forward curling in goals, but almost none from the right.

I previously lamented the negative effect Valencia has on our attacking play, would anybody accept that the stats seem to back up that opinion or is it just coincidence?

FutureGuy

Here is an interesting statistic that compares Van Gaal with Mourinho.

I feel asleep during 5.7% of Van Gaal games. I fell asleep during 0.0% of Mourinho's games

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Said this here the other day if United sign James it looks like Jose trying to replicate his Chelsea formation from 2 year ago 4231.

But I don't think we will sign griezmann if we do it will be a player like lukaku or beloti.

James is more if a right sided attacking midfielder so i would have mkhitartan behind the striker and James out wide right.

Would pogba play further forward and left if we sign a new defensive midfielder it be closer to his role at juve.

I really rate James, but I'd be a lot happier seeing Jose getting in some properly suitable players to play those wide roles. James is more of a 10. He's wasted playing out wide. It would be similar to the problems we have now with Mata, Mkhitaryan, Martial and Rashford - all players that are more suited to playing centrally.

Griezmann and Aubameyang make some sense, because at least they are super fast (they fit a similar profile to Rashford that way). But we need more of the workhorse types. Mourinho loves that type and always needs them in big games. It's what Lingard has been doing for us.

As long as Pogba is playing in a double pivot then we aren't going to get the best out of him. At Juve he played his best stuff when he had two other CMs alongside him, so he was freed up. Just sticking one DM beside him isn't going to do that.

Edit: I have a theory that Shaw could be converted into one of these Mourinho-type wide players. But if that's not in the plan we need to buy some and not more 10s

deaddonkey15

TheDoc wrote: »

Again, cycles and roundabouts regarding the perception of the progress of the style or play, when that is not what is the problem.

I happily accept at times or in parts the team is playing much better. But only at times, in others its more regressive and defensive than anything that's happened previous. And all that is fine.

There is clearly an issue with perception and what is being deemed as noteworthy progress. People are happy to point to the progress seen in style and play as a good barometer to be positive and that's fine.

I'm not happy with the fact the team has had a poor league campaign, where "progression" has not taken place, considering there was another season where our rivals were abject in parts and only two teams really looked decent.

I'll happily read your link shortly, that looks interesting, but I'd still stand by my point that regarding when people are outlining how they are perceiving the progress or style change, it's their own personal bearings and feelings on the situation. And that is fine to have, its just incredibly frustrating when people are putting forward their "feelings" as some form of fact or truth, and belittling or trying to derail everyone else and don't seem to want to engage our even outline why they feel this way or what specific to them has them in this mood, instead just having little pot shots at people in the mindset like me.

I've tried outlining where I'm coming from, but I just get the overwhelming opinion that people think I'm mental or something, where there is little being shown to outline their own viewpoint or stance.

There are the metrics and measurements that are unavoidable and unquestionable, the league standing, goals scored, chance conversion etc. And those that are not in tangible form, mood, outlook, feeling, emotion. Thats the sort of stuff thats fascinating me this season, as looking from a high level. You all know I have an interest in some obscure stuff around football, be it media or how fan opinion is formed, and this is has been an incredible season to see some of the sways and changes. And I'm just trying to figure it out. Cause I don't think I've gone through it, or have gone through it differently.

And pops are welcome at how I read/interpret or understand the game. There is a certain point where I don't know, if people arn't willing to conceed to some issues raised when we have the home form we have, against the teams we drew against, then it does feel like there is no point in engaging.

I will say from my own perspective, while at times this season has felt REALLY progressive and better, like, wow **** is going well here, there is also times where it feels terrible, it feels regressive and it feels hopeless. And there was those same times under Van Gaal one minute there is a run of performances where it feels like it was going to click, only for it to stumble and fall apart. This team has been one step forward two steps back for three years. I'd maybe be more assured in having the positivity if it was a consistent run of good form, performances and results. I just don't really understand how you can have some without the other. Of course you can win when not playing well, or you can lose while playing well, but they are the edge cases. They are the consistency, they arn't the mean. Our results coupled with our ability to score goals doesn't have me believing things are much better or immeasurably better. I just don't think it's been consistent enough for me to be totally assured. It's been scattered like it has for the two seasons before it.

I definitely do not feel the unshakable belief that Mourinho and this team are on the right path as some others do but I'm happy to wait and see.

Have to agree with this. I think people are being quite selective in terms of what they remember from last season and this season.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I previously lamented the negative effect Valencia has on our attacking play, would anybody accept that the stats seem to back up that opinion or is it just coincidence?

I don't think stats are needed. From just watching the games it's incredibly predictable sending the ball out to Valencia who is an incredibly predictable player. The quality of cross isn't anything to write home about either more often than not.

mickmackey1

FutureGuy wrote: »

I fell asleep during 0.0% of Mourinho's games

You obviously missed the Anfield borefest so.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that you can't see the improvement in play under Jose really is an indictment of your ability to understand what is playing out on the pitch. But here are some numbers to back up the claim: The Table is the Same - Has Mourinho Improved Manchester United?

First raised my eyebrow at the use of what I assume are per game data. Sometimes feel they are can be used to push a narrative as it can make the point more extreme when dealing with 1.10 vs 1.40.

The way the author is writing, not sure if he is giving too much credit to Jose in parts or what the story is. Question is still there does Mourinho actually orchestrate attacking play, or does he entrust players to work it out. The data presented there doesn't really give me any better indication, as much as the author seems to be crediting Jose.

So I went to Sqwuaka to get the full round numbers on some metrics, and well to say that is some compounding evidence is an understatement

https://goo.gl/JOjK7P

By pretty much every metric (the ones that sprung to my mind as maybe important for an overall look) this team is coming out on top. Dived in deeper and even more of the teams overall stuff is coming top trumps this season.

Have to say I'm surprised on a good number of them, as I definitely haven't felt that way this year. I havn't ( I don't think) being advocating last year was better or the team was better, just that I don't felt it had got significantly better or different. The same emotions, same feeling the team bottles opening, drops silly points, can't raise itself for an occasion.

Wouldn't say it's changed my mind entirely (though very much sitting here now kinda questioning some stuff), although would concede that I see why people are feeling that way. I still can't get past the results and some of the compounding figures like al lthe draws and the home form.

Interesting though.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

An interesting quote from that analysis:

I previously lamented the negative effect Valencia has on our attacking play, would anybody accept that the stats seem to back up that opinion or is it just coincidence?

No. That means we play Martial, Rashford on the left who takes shot from distance, also Pogba takes so many from left side of the field. On the right you have Mata who rarely shoots from wide.

So you are saying Darmian is providing better attacking output? Since you point is Valencia is RB so we are **** from right side.

Also the post you quoted itself answered your question:
This is all United shots paired with all United goals this season. Interestingly, there’s a lot of joy from the left channel, presumably from an inverted forward curling in goals, but almost none from the right

TheDoc

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No. That means we play Martial, Rashford on the left who takes shot from distance, also Pogba takes so many from left side of the field. On the right you have Mata who rarely shoots from wide.

So you are saying Darmian is providing better attacking output? Since you point is Valencia is RB so we are **** from right side.

Also the post you quoted itself answered your question:
This is all United shots paired with all United goals this season. Interestingly, there’s a lot of joy from the left channel, presumably from an inverted forward curling in goals, but almost none from the right

This pretty much. Our inverted wide players are predominantly on the left. Martial, Rashford, Lingaard, Mhiki are all right footed and can cut in from wide and perform that type of shot.We don't have someone who cuts in from the right and drives in curling shots or taking shots.

We have Mata out there who really doesn't do that, or Lingaard who doesn't seem to have a left foot.

As you say, author is drawing the conclusion from the attacking players, not the defenders.

A team with say an Arjen Robben in his pomp would have better numbers from the right, due to how he plays. That's the sort of player I presume the author is referencing.

Mantis Toboggan

God I love a good stat...


Although the only one that matters is the league table at the end of the the season.

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

This pretty much. Our inverted wide players are predominantly on the left. Martial, Rashford, Lingaard, Mhiki are all right footed and can cut in from wide and perform that type of shot.We don't have someone who cuts in from the right and drives in curling shots or taking shots.

We have Mata out there who really doesn't do that, or Lingaard who doesn't seem to have a left foot.

As you say, author is drawing the conclusion from the attacking players, not the defenders.

A team with say an Arjen Robben in his pomp would have better numbers from the right, due to how he plays. That's the sort of player I presume the author is referencing.

Exactly. That article isn't even talking about goals or action zones, just from which sides shots are taken.

Like you said our attacking players all prefer left side of the field and then you have Pogba, it's not surprising that most shots are from left side of the field.

Jayop

TheDoc wrote: »

There it is again "sane fans". Some of you just can't seem to help yourself.

That people with a different view are somehow mental, idiots or don't grasp the concept.

It's not even a different view. Win Europa and it will be a good first season, with the massive caveat the league was a disaster and must be much better. But there is just this extreme defence.

Doc you're the one that's going all top red trying to disparage the rest of us for not freaking out the way you're doing. Your hypocrisy is amazing.

jayo26

Tyson Fury wrote: »

God I love a good stat...


Although the only one that matters is the league table at the end of the the season.

Not really ha. The most important stat that matters is winning the league or not and after that the champions league and cup wins.

JamboMac

James will go to Bayern and how anybody wants to keep Jones over smalling boggles, jones hasn't had one good season and has been a liability when he has played.

If smalling isn't good enough than neither is jones.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

An interesting quote from that analysis:

I previously lamented the negative effect Valencia has on our attacking play, would anybody accept that the stats seem to back up that opinion or is it just coincidence?

For all we know it could be Valencia's good development of play on the right that is opening up the space for the forwards on the left. That follows the standard theory that you get better shooting opportunities on the weak side of the opposition defence, because the defenders are drawn across to where the play is developing.

Also our two best forwards for beating players from wide and getting off shots by themselves are both right footed - Martial and Rashford - so it makes sense that we'd have more shots in the left channel than the right. Just like the author pressumes - inverted forwards cutting in from the left.

TitianGerm

FutureGuy wrote: »

Here is an interesting statistic that compares Van Gaal with Mourinho.

I feel asleep during 5.7% of Van Gaal games. I fell asleep during 0.0% of Mourinho's games

Not even in the five away games against the other top 6? When United managed one goal?

pjohnson

JamboMac wrote: »

James will go to Bayern and how anybody wants to keep Jones over smalling boggles, jones hasn't had one good season and has been a liability when he has played.

If smalling isn't good enough than neither is jones.

Jones and Rojo formed a great partnership 2nd quarter of this season.

nicklauski

mickmackey1 wrote: »

You obviously missed the Anfield borefest so.

If only Zlatan scored the chance United were set up to capitalise on.

Giggsy11

FutureGuy wrote: »

Here is an interesting statistic that compares Van Gaal with Mourinho.

I feel asleep during 5.7% of Van Gaal games. I fell asleep during 0.0% of Mourinho's games

Only 5.7%?

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

First raised my eyebrow at the use of what I assume are per game data. Sometimes feel they are can be used to push a narrative as it can make the point more extreme when dealing with 1.10 vs 1.40.

The way the author is writing, not sure if he is giving too much credit to Jose in parts or what the story is. Question is still there does Mourinho actually orchestrate attacking play, or does he entrust players to work it out. The data presented there doesn't really give me any better indication, as much as the author seems to be crediting Jose.

So I went to Sqwuaka to get the full round numbers on some metrics, and well to say that is some compounding evidence is an understatement

https://goo.gl/JOjK7P

By pretty much every metric (the ones that sprung to my mind as maybe important for an overall look) this team is coming out on top. Dived in deeper and even more of the teams overall stuff is coming top trumps this season.

Have to say I'm surprised on a good number of them, as I definitely haven't felt that way this year. I havn't ( I don't think) being advocating last year was better or the team was better, just that I don't felt it had got significantly better or different. The same emotions, same feeling the team bottles opening, drops silly points, can't raise itself for an occasion.

Wouldn't say it's changed my mind entirely (though very much sitting here now kinda questioning some stuff), although would concede that I see why people are feeling that way. I still can't get past the results and some of the compounding figures like al lthe draws and the home form.

Interesting though.

That has not been the issue being debated. The question was have we measurably improved this season, and the answer is yes.

Edit: to clarify, it's reasonable that the article would give credit to Jose, since everything being measured has improved so much under him. There's no proof that Jose has been coaching the team better other than the fact that the team is performing better. But that's pretty good evidence.

JamboMac

pjohnson wrote: »

Jones and Rojo formed a great partnership 2nd quarter of this season.

I think bailly, rojo and smalling are our best cb's blind is great at reading the situations but isn't ideal. Jones rushes in and doesn't seem to think and I think you need more intelligent people at Cb, you have to read situations.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

That has not been the issue being debated. The question was have we measurably improved this season, and the answer is yes.

Forgot to put that in sharper context about the author talking specifically about the attacking play, and referenced Van Gaal clear tactical instruction, and credited Mourinho for tacticaly making it better. Just not sure that is true.

But I think the evidence presented would very much have me concede that I accept and understand know where the progress in style is coming from, apart from the obvious stuff that I'd seem in certain games when we are clearly playing better. Statistically from two sources now, it is clearly better on those metrics.

League standing, results, poor home record and those dropped points will fuel emotion and belief that how could anyone claim it better, that I likely have been throughout the season, but I'm getting where people are coming from clearer now.

Like I said I never disagreed there was parts it was clearly better, I just didn't feel there was a consistent pattern or plan, and the team was still suspect to just as many poor or bad performances as good.

There is also no escaping the league form also by the way. Shouldn't be brushed aside, excused or ignored. Like others have said, big improvement required next season.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly. That article isn't even talking about goals or action zones, just from which sides shots are taken.

Like you said our attacking players all prefer left side of the field and then you have Pogba, it's not surprising that most shots are from left side of the field.

I fully understand that many of our players prefer to cut in from the left, but for me the telling part of the quote was not that we have more from the left, but that we have almost none from the right.

Its clear from watching the games that we constantly have possession on the right hand side of the field so why does that possession result in such a marked lack of shots on goal? Even accepting that our players prefer to work it left doesn't excuse that.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

I fully understand that many of our players prefer to cut in from the left, but for me the telling part of the quote was not that we have more from the left, but that we have almost none from the right.

Its clear from watching the games that we constantly have possession on the right hand side of the field so why does that possession result in such a marked lack of shots on goal? Even accepting that our players prefer to work it left doesn't excuse that.

But it doesn't mean anything on Valencia, it means our RWs don't shoot.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

But it doesn't mean anything on Valencia, it means our RWs don't shoot.

I would be interested to know why. And yes I do think it reflects on Valencia who more than anybody else finds himself in the last 3rd of the pitch on the right hand side.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

I would be interested to know why. And yes I do think it reflects on Valencia who more than anybody else finds himself in the last 3rd of the pitch on the right hand side.

Because it's about shooting, not from which side chances are created. Why will Valencia who is right footed RB shoots from right side? That too he always hugs the touch line, it won't make sense to shoot from there.

If anything that doesn't reflect well on Mata, again that also doesn't make sense as he prefers to pass than shoot.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its clear from watching the games that we constantly have possession on the right hand side of the field so why does that possession result in such a marked lack of shots on goal?

It is wrong to assume that just because there are fewer shots on the right that the right side possession is not resulting in shots. Possession on one side is just as, or more, likely to create chances on the opposite side and in the centre than it is on the same side.

Bleating Lamb

We had a good discussion at wkd about possible CDM targets this summer.
Dier was one of most prominent names mentioned.I ventured the opinion that for that role his range of passing is quite limited when he regains/receives possession and that he tends to pass the ball sideways too much.For a probable fee of at least 40m Sterling there are better options out there.
Came across an article by Johnny Giles ( who knows a thing or two about that role) where he describes Diers skill set as those 'of a Central defender playing in front of two central defenders'

Rayne Wooney

25 points off top is obviously a pretty awful season but we must face the reality that no matter who is in charge be it Ancelloti, Conte, Pep we still wouldn't have been near top of the table this season.

Mourinho has layed some very promising foundations this season, played some attractive football, showed he will give young players a chance and could finish the season with two trophies.

TitianGerm

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

we must face the reality that no matter who is in charge be it Ancelloti, Conte, Pep we still wouldn't have been near top of the table this season.

What makes you think that?

Rayne Wooney

emmetkenny wrote: »

What makes you think that?

Pep started off with a better squad and spent more than any other manager last season and still didn't challenge, Conte deserves credit but he had a title winning squad with the best player in the league added to it.

Realistically nobody would have done better, another manager may have finished top 4 if they scrapped the trophies earlier but it's much of a muchness.

Do you believe somebody would have done better than Mourinho?

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

It is wrong to assume that just because there are fewer shots on the right that the right side possession is not resulting in shots. Possession on one side is just as, or more, likely to create chances on the opposite side and in the centre than it is on the same side.

But then you would expect the reverse to also be true, that possession on the left or centre would sometimes result in shots from the right. But again, we have markedly few shots from the right hand side, whatever the cause I would think thats something the club would need to know the reasons for, because no doubt an opposing manager would make use of that information.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

But then you would expect the reverse to also be true, that possession on the left or centre would sometimes result in shots from the right. But again, we have markedly few shots from the right hand side, whatever the cause I would think thats something the club would need to know the reasons for, because no doubt an opposing manager would make use of that information.

Mata has played most from the right iirc. He isn't shooting on his right foot so he will come inside to shoot. Martial and Rashford have played from the left and are less creatively dominant than Mata (on the right) and are more likely to shoot from a left side position that mata is from a similar position on the right - Mata will come centrally to shoot.]

I feel our attacking players on the right have generally been more likely to pass or cross from a right sided position while our attacking players on the left would have a higher tendency to shoot when any sort of chance is on.

Kerrydude1981

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

25 points off top is obviously a pretty awful season but we must face the reality that no matter who is in charge be it Ancelloti, Conte, Pep we still wouldn't have been near top of the table this season.

Mourinho has layed some very promising foundations this season, played some attractive football, showed he will give young players a chance and could finish the season with two trophies.

I think its been a freak of a season in many ways,14 draws in the league is something I dont think we will see happening for a good while again,

Poor finishing has let us down and that is the biggest reason why the team are where they are in the table

Mitch Connor

I think players deserve blame for being rubbish in front of goal - all of them. so many points dropped due to players missing chances they should have scored.

I think Mourinho deserves blame for poor squad management. I will forever maintain Memphis and Schneiderlin could have been of use, and proven themselves good players if given a real chance in the side - both would have been of use these last few weeks especially. Not giving them decent game time early in the season, especially in Europe, was a mistake imo. Selling Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Memphis, without having a replacement to bring in - thus futher reducing the squad options, was a mistake.

I also think the teams inability to finish chances, meaning we are constantly on the edge of disaster, is part of the reason Mourunho has turned the side into a much more cautious and defensive one in recent weeks - can't trust the attacking players to provide any sort of buffer or dominance.