Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

25 points off top is obviously a pretty awful season but we must face the reality that no matter who is in charge be it Ancelloti, Conte, Pep we still wouldn't have been near top of the table this season.

Mourinho has layed some very promising foundations this season, played some attractive football, showed he will give young players a chance and could finish the season with two trophies.

Get where you are coming from, but didn't Conte just do that this season?

There are valid points no doubt about the quality in the Chelsea team and how they disgustingly underperformed last season, but I guess on the surface it was still a manager who came in and took a team who finished mid table to champions.

Coupled with the fact it was his first time in England, with a broken dressing room and all the problems and stuff there.

So while I get the point of "well who could have done better" I think the answer is somewhere along the lines of "well anything is possible".

A lot hinges on the Europa league. Win that, and this season will look a lot better looking back. Did say at various points the ends might very well justify the means. Lose the Europa league, and it looks very different.

End of season Conte could end up with League title and FA Cup. That he wasn't in Europe is not his fault. Maybe if they were this season would have looked much different. I don't think the issue is who could have done better, Mourinho can do better. We know it, he knows it, everyone knows it. He's not some busted flush. He can and I'm sure will do better.

This season in the league just got away from him, and he just went down the path he did with excuses and what not.

I think to somehow make out no one could have us near the top is a bit of a stretch, depending on the context. In hindsight looking back, yeah, might be valid to say its difficult to know who could do better. If your players arn't scoring what can you do. Pep has that issue with City.

But if we are talking start of the season, before a ball was kicked, I think its rich for anyone to claim they knew the squad wasn't good enough or we would fall short. We were second favourites in most places, first in a lot, and I'm sure we can all remember our own pre-season hype and aspirations, where the general consensus was we would have a title tilt.

To be honest missing top 4 didn't even factor in my thinking start of the season (I don't think) I just remember being extremely positive and hyped.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

But then you would expect the reverse to also be true, that possession on the left or centre would sometimes result in shots from the right.

Not if that left or central possession isn't as good at creating shots. This isn't what is actually happening, but it shows that you are using this evidence (lack of shots in the right-hand channel) to make inferences that it doesn't support.

The real reason we have so few shots from the right channel is the make-up of our forwards and the positions they have been playing. Martial and Rashford are our best players for creating chances for themselves from wide, and both are right footed, so they do that most on the left side. We have no similar left footed forward to make up those shooting numbers in the right channel. Mata is left footed, but he doesn't have the athleticism to make the same types of runs. Mkhitaryan is two footed and could maybe do it (I have my doubts whether he really has the physical attributes to play that role), but he hasn't been able to consistently from either side this season. Lingard is right footed and also not strong enough of a dribbler.

So, it's the make-up of the forwards that's causing the skew in the shots, not some inadequacy from Valencia.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think Mourinho deserves blame for poor squad management. I will forever maintain Memphis and Schneiderlin could have been of use,

I don't think either of them would have made a difference to be honest, they would have just given us more of the same that the likes of Martial or Fellaini were serving up.

There were mistakes made in squad management but to my mind the bigger mistake was the reliance on Zlatan without recognising and dealing with the fact that we had no real alternative to his goals.

Cantona's Collars

Record financial figures forecast for the club again.Despite no CL we are raking it in.

A Derby game announced for Texas this Summer, let's hope the weather is better than China.

TheDoc

From looking at how our right side develops, when you have Lingaard, Mata or Mhiki there they tend to drift infield and leave that space for Valencia or whoever to make up the ground there. While our shots from the right channel might be low or non existent, I'd be surprised a graph outlining our chance creation and crosses, weren't heavily stacked towards the right side of the pitch.

Which I guess is fine that there is diversity there. We have ability to get down to the byline and cutback or cross from the right, while having more intricate play and shooting ability from the left. Guess it's a good thing to be able to mix it up so it's not predictable and obvious. I guess problem being that its obvious and predictable what is coming from where, but that's probably the same with every team really.

Probably why its crucial we get a good all round number 9. Someone who can take advantage from the sort of chances created from our right flank, likely to be headed finishes or six yard box finishes, but also be somewhat cute with linkup play and movement to work in that left sided play we have.

Actually just thinking since lunch and running chat here with one of the lads, can't think if many names of someone who has a lethal left foot and does that sort of role. Basically we are trying to work out who is the new Arjen Robben Still seems to be the best we keep coming up with. Messi obviously but doesn't really do that role anymore. Bale when he is fit.

Then one of the other lads pops up with "You know James is left footed....."

Trigger

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Only 5.7%?

65.34% of all statistics on the internet are made up

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

65.34% of all statistics on the internet are made up

Link?


Lol.

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

Link?


Lol.

Stats Linky

Liam O

Fwiw I think Valencia has done better in recent games at making smart decisions with the ball but that may be down to the more conservative nature of the play. There has been a lot less useless balls into the box anyway.

I still think a better technical player would make hay on that side with the amount of space and time he gets. His lack of courage in taking on a player holds him back imo. Takes all the momentum out of his play. He's a different beast when he gives it a go.

jayo26

Confirmed United squad members

Sergio Romero

Joel Pereira

Kieran O'Hara

Matteo Darmian

Axel Tuanzebe

Eric Bailly

Phil Jones

Chris Smalling

Demetri Mitchell

Michael Carrick

Ander Herrera

Scott McTominay

Jesse Lingard

Marouane Fellaini

Juan Mata

Henrikh Mkhitaryan

Wayne Rooney

Anthony Martial

Marcus Rashford


No De gea in squad for tomorrow night's game also no Valencia.

AidoEirE

JamboMac wrote: »

I think bailly, rojo and smalling are our best cb's blind is great at reading the situations but isn't ideal. Jones rushes in and doesn't seem to think and I think you need more intelligent people at Cb, you have to read situations.

Smalling is the same bracket as jones, not good enough. His judgement of the height of the ball being lofted into our own box is horrible, gets caught out to many times in that situation

Lord TSC

jayo26 wrote: »

Confirmed United squad members


No De gea in squad for tomorrow night's game also no Valencia.

Not shocked with DDG; the game tomorrow will be a dry run for the finals, so makes sense to give Romero some gametime.

Mitch Connor

Very surprised DDG is left out to be honest - would be worried about that.

Toobz

astradave wrote: »

65.34% of all statistics on the internet are made up

Forfty three percent of people know that!

DARK-KNIGHT

anyone else think ajax are gonna do us in the final? recent form has me seriously worried we have been piss poor lets face it

yes the football has improved to a point but not being at least third in the table is a massive failure imo

Liam McPoyle

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

anyone else think ajax are gonna do us in the final? recent form has me seriously worried we have been piss poor lets face it

yes the football has improved to a point but not being at least third in the table is a massive failure imo

As a once off game anything could happen.

I'd be significantly more confident if we had Bailly and Rocko available.

I'd put us at 50/50 for it.

fatherted1969

Whether we win or not next week this season has been unacceptable in the league imo. I had expected us to be challenging with our purchases. Winning one and hopefully two is only papering over the cracks of a difficult season. Fingers crossed it'll be better next year

Quandary

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

anyone else think ajax are gonna do us in the final? recent form has me seriously worried we have been piss poor lets face it

yes the football has improved to a point but not being at least third in the table is a massive failure imo

I think we will win it but it won't be pretty. We have been in the main, extremely hard to beat this season and I see that continuing in the final.

This final has become a massive massive game and Jose is the right manager to get a win at all costs. We know he'll change it up pretty quick if things aren't going to plan, unlike some other more single minded managers.

Im already nervous thinking about it! When is the last time Utd were involved in a game that had so much immediately at stake?

Lithium93_

Quandary wrote: »

I think we will win it but it won't be pretty. We have been in the main, extremely hard to beat this season and I see that continuing in the final.

This final has become a massive massive game and Jose is the right manager to get a win at all costs. We know he'll change it up pretty quick if things aren't going to plan, unlike some other more single minded managers.

Im already nervous thinking about it! When is the last time Utd were involved in a game that had so much immediately at stake?

Last day of the 2011/12 season I'd imagine after they had beaten Sunderland, and waiting to hear from the Man City/QPR game.

TheDoc

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

anyone else think ajax are gonna do us in the final? recent form has me seriously worried we have been piss poor lets face it

yes the football has improved to a point but not being at least third in the table is a massive failure imo

Without seeing them, based purely on what I've read and heard, I'm pretty worried alright.

Have a certain amount of trust in Jose pulling it off with his experience and know how, but I'd be worried with the road he is taking in terms of preparation (and one can't overly argue, he needs to avoid injuries and keep people match sharp) that we won't have any real momentum going into the game.

Ajax are on a decent run from what I can see of winning like 5 from 6, and just lost the league, so might have a serious bit between their teeth.We are 2 losses, 2 draws and 2 wins from our last six in the league.

You'd hope the occasion and it being a once off the team can really step it up for the night, but I won't be surprised (assuming PL results and performances go how I assume) that we are looking to salvage it all in the second half of the final

v3ttel

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

anyone else think ajax are gonna do us in the final? recent form has me seriously worried we have been piss poor lets face it

yes the football has improved to a point but not being at least third in the table is a massive failure imo

I hope Bailly being out doesn't end up costing us. It's definitely a game that's in the balance. We have drawn and struggled past much worse teams than Ajax this season, even when Ibra, Bailly, Rojo, Shaw etc, were available.

It's incredibly important to win it. Lack of Champions League mightn't be a deal breaker for some players, but playing in it definitely helps. Players also want to join clubs that win trophies. It'll cost us ~£21 million through a reduction in the Adidas deal if we miss out on Champions League for a second season. It'll help (hopefully!) a title charge next season because playing Thursday always seems to be a disaster for league form for every club. Winning it could give a massive boost that the club is going in the right direction again. Losing it will have the opposite effect.

I think we'll scrape it (same as Palace, same as Southampton) with Jose's experience, but United never do things the easy way so I don't think it'll be straight forward or pretty. Also, fully prepared for it to go tits up. Hopefully losing the league will dent Ajax's confidence rather than make them even more determined.

I'll be watching it from behind the couch.....

bucketybuck

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

anyone else think ajax are gonna do us in the final?

I'm not worried about Ajax at all.

I am worried where our goals will come from and that yet again a lot of our players will do a bottle job and be nowhere to be seen when it really counts.

DARK-KNIGHT

time for our lads to show what they are made of way too many getting paid handsomely and not putting their all into it. I wish I could get keano into the dressing room to frighten the ****e outta the soft ****ers lol

Lord TSC

Looks like there was a briefing.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/864537432313778177

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/864529078321385474

Both Ducker and Stone post the same thing within a short time of each other, saying United aren't after James, and it's just Real trying to drum up a market for him.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

There it is again "sane fans". Some of you just can't seem to help yourself.

That people with a different view are somehow mental, idiots or don't grasp the concept.

It's not even a different view. Win Europa and it will be a good first season, with the massive caveat the league was a disaster and must be much better. But there is just this extreme defence.

Personally I can't take any of your posts re Jose seriously when you blindly defended the crap served up by LVG.

Whether right or wrong every time I read your posts your posts from last season and roll my eyes.

Cookiemunster

Lord TSC wrote: »

Looks like there was a briefing.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/864537432313778177

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/864529078321385474

Both Ducker and Stone post the same thing within a short time of each other, saying United aren't after James, and it's just Real trying to drum up a market for him.

Mark Ogden just tweeted similar. Definitely a briefing.

Headshot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Looks like there was a briefing.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/864537432313778177

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/864529078321385474

Both Ducker and Stone post the same thing within a short time of each other, saying United aren't after James, and it's just Real trying to drum up a market for him.

Phew

Just dont rate him all that highly. Utd could do a lot better

beno619

bucketybuck wrote: »

An interesting quote from that analysis:

I previously lamented the negative effect Valencia has on our attacking play, would anybody accept that the stats seem to back up that opinion or is it just coincidence?

José's tactics imo.

Liam O

Headshot wrote: »

Phew

Just dont rate him all that highly. Utd could do a lot better

Unsure how you can say that. He's a class act. A level above most of United's attackers.

Who are these others who could be better?

RockSalto

Liam O wrote: »

Unsure how you can say that. He's a class act. A level above most of United's attackers.

Who are these others who could be better?

Agree. He's a class act. Just not what United need at the moment. Couple of good 10's there. Last thing we need is yet another one to put out on the wing.

jayo26

Didn't want him anyway

Headshot

Liam O wrote: »

Unsure how you can say that. He's a class act. A level above most of United's attackers.

Who are these others who could be better?

Sorry I just don't see it and plus I think Mata is better

I never really got the Rodriguez deal. Now im not just going off his R.Madrid career because any player can perform badly at that mad club but his club career never really blew me away.

Just think he's really over rated by some

billyhead

I never really rated Rodriguez either. Okay he had an exceptional world cup in 2014 but apart from that he hasn't done much to warrant being one of our top targets especially if it hindered any deal for Greizmann. I would only be in favour of signing James if it meant we got a consistent goal scorer aswell i.e Lukaku.

wanderer100

Lord TSC wrote: »

Looks like there was a briefing.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/864537432313778177

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/864529078321385474

Both Ducker and Stone post the same thing within a short time of each other, saying United aren't after James, and it's just Real trying to drum up a market for him.

Thank god. Very overrated and I personally don't think he's an upgrade on Mata or Micki.

GSPfan

Its rare I'm delighted about news we are not signing someone but James Rodriquez is a player I cannot see solving any of our problems.

To be honest I dislike the 4231 right now as the wide forwards being made up of centre forwards and number 10's annoys the shíte out of me. The whole number 10 phenomenon annoys me really. I think its a position made for people not fast enough or skillful enough to be wingers and not lethal enough to be a centre forwards.

Trigger

GSPfan wrote: »

Its rare I'm delighted about news we are not signing someone but James Rodriquez is a player I cannot see solving any of our problems.

To be honest I dislike the 4231 right now as the wide forwards being made up of centre forwards and number 10's annoys the shíte out of me. The whole number 10 phenomenon annoys me really. I think its a position made for people not fast enough or skillful enough to be wingers and not lethal enough to be a centre forwards.

Some of the most skilful players in the world play the No.10 role.. I think the role you are thinking of would be the second striker style role not a traditional No10 which would be more an attacking mid that would be threading thru balls and knitting the play together in the final 3rd.. when played there players like Mata Silva Ozil Coutinho and even Mkhi (to name a few in the PL) are extremely skilful players who would usually be the main assister on their team.

bucketybuck

RockSalto wrote: »

Just not what United need at the moment.

This is the heart of the matter. I would rather have unspectactular signings that directly addressed our needs than a superstar signing that we need to squeeze in somewhere.

If we are definitely getting our striker, winger, DM and full back then fine, buy James. But until I know we are getting those other players its hard to be excited about another no.10.

jayo26

This is why a quality attacking midfielder would be an excellent signing.

We need a striker yes but if we only signed a striker we would be the exact same as last season with no goals coming from elsewhere I the team compaired to other teams around us we have the poorest return from attacking players apart from the striker.

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

This is why a quality attacking midfielder would be an excellent signing.

We need a striker yes but if we only signed a striker we would be the exact same as last season with no goals coming from elsewhere I the team compaired to other teams around us we have the poorest return from attacking players apart from the striker.

Miki and Mata arnt quality anymore ?

I wouldn't be surprised if people were posting stats in here where Miki looked great compared to our options at the time.

A player like James just isn't a priority and creates more problems than it solves.

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

This is why a quality attacking midfielder would be an excellent signing.

The implication in your post is that we should ditch Mikhitaryan and Mata and replace them with James, seeing as stats show he might bring the goals were they did not.

But we won't be ditching Miki, and we might ditch Mata but more likely he sticks around. And their stats could easily improve if we had better chance conversion and a more solid midfield, while James' stats would almost certainly be worse away from a dominant Madrid side.

GSPfan

astradave wrote: »

Some of the most skilful players in the world play the No.10 role.. I think the role you are thinking of would be the second striker style role not a traditional No10 which would be more an attacking mid that would be threading thru balls and knitting the play together in the final 3rd.. when played there players like Mata Silva Ozil Coutinho and even Mkhi (to name a few in the PL) are extremely skilful players who would usually be the main assister on their team.

Apologies, I knew Id have to clarify what I wrote as soon as I wrote it. I 100% agree with you above. I'm more getting at the idea that there is an abundance now of players who are being tagged as being a number 10 when infact I just think they dont suit being a striker or winger so they get the number 10 tag. Its the miscellaneous position.

deaddonkey15

jayo26 wrote: »

This is why a quality attacking midfielder would be an excellent signing.

We need a striker yes but if we only signed a striker we would be the exact same as last season with no goals coming from elsewhere I the team compaired to other teams around us we have the poorest return from attacking players apart from the striker.

If you add Rooney into that he compares quite favourably to Mata and Mkhitaryan both for the Premier League and Europa League.

fatherted1969

Veratti would be a brilliant signing

jayo26

I'm not saying ditch them mata has had a decent enough season but we need goals from all round the team and they didnt provide enough.

If we can get better players in then yes we should as that's what needs to be done it's the reason we need a striker because Rashford ain't scored enough goals.

The_Kew_Tour

Vidal from Bayern would be my ideal signing, but it wont happen of course.

domrush

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Vidal from Bayern would be my ideal signing, but it wont happen of course.

Not sure where Vidal would fit in with Pogba and Herrera

PhuckHugh

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Vidal from Bayern would be my ideal signing, but it wont happen of course.

Hard to see him leaving CL football for EL football.

Liam McPoyle

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Hard to see him leaving CL football for EL football.

Probably why he said "it won't happen"

:rolleyes:

Liam O

domrush wrote: »

Not sure where Vidal would fit in with Pogba and Herrera

He's twice the player Herrera is, as much as people may not like to hear it.

Liam McPoyle

Liam O wrote: »

He's twice the player Herrera is, as much as people may not like to hear it.

I doubt many / any people could argue that Vidal is anything but superior to Ander.

I'm a huge fan of Ander but Vidal is another level altogether.

Whatever faint chance we ever had of signing him evaporated when he joined Bayern.