Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

v3ttel

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Vidal from Bayern would be my ideal signing, but it wont happen of course.

I've mentioned it before but I would love to sign Naingollan from Roma. He's all energy similar to Vidal. He's excellent going forward and very good defensively. I read that Chelsea had scouts watching him (not sure how reliable that source was), but that would make sense.

I'm glad we're not in for James. He is another #10. He is not quick. He is not powerful. He doesn't score a ton of goals. He's a very good player but absolutely not what United need. We need a clinical striker and a world class wide player with pace & confidence to beat defenders.

The_Kew_Tour

v3ttel wrote: »

I've mentioned it before but I would love to sign Naingollan from Roma. He's all energy.

Yep would not be disappointed with him either

Realistic too

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

I'm not saying ditch them mata has had a decent enough season but we need goals from all round the team and they didnt provide enough.

If we can get better players in then yes we should as that's what needs to be done it's the reason we need a striker because Rashford ain't scored enough goals.

The fact that James has scored more goals doesn't mean he would work playing wide in this team. You have to look at how the player would fit into the team, not just how many he's scored or created while playing for a different team.

Pro. F

On Vidal, he turns 30 next week. Wishful thinking or not, the time for buying Vidal is long past.

Trigger

Would love to sign Naingollan, hair style n all, ideal player. can play as a DM or a box to box, would be a proper Jose player

Lord TSC

We have officially finished sixth.

Naingolan would be brilliant, just to see reactions to a physical midfield of him, Fellaini and Pogba :pac:

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

We have officially finished sixth.

Naingolan would be brilliant, just to see reactions to a physical midfield of him, Fellaini and Pogba :pac:

Physical? Imagine the hairstyles! A fro, a Mohawk and an emoji :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

We have finished in every position from 1st to 7th in PL era now

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

The implication in your post is that we should ditch Mikhitaryan and Mata and replace them with James, seeing as stats show he might bring the goals were they did not.

But we won't be ditching Miki, and we might ditch Mata but more likely he sticks around. And their stats could easily improve if we had better chance conversion and a more solid midfield, while James' stats would almost certainly be worse away from a dominant Madrid side.

If the mmanager wasn't having them play in a back 6 then the stats would be a lot better.
Its what i expect again Ajax too. 2 wingers spending most of their time defending and Jose hoping we will win 1-0 with a set piece or similar

Robson99

astradave wrote: »

Would love to sign Naingollan, hair style n all, ideal player. can play as a DM or a box to box, would be a proper Jose player

Kroos and Sanchez would be great additions if we could get them. Need a top class centre half as well. Varnane would be ideal. But I cant see Real parting with him unless part of DeGea deal

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

If the mmanager wasn't having them play in a back 6 then the stats would be a lot better.
Its what i expect again Ajax too. 2 wingers spending most of their time defending and Jose hoping we will win 1-0 with a set piece or similar

That certainly hasnt been the norm this season. You are making that up.

J. Marston

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

We have finished in every position from 1st to 7th in PL era now

8th-20th.

Mourinho's next challenge.

StringerBell

Robson99 wrote: »

If the mmanager wasn't having them play in a back 6 then the stats would be a lot better.

When you tell silly, Trump-like, lies it obviously negates whatever point you are trying to make.

domrush

Robson99 wrote: »

Kroos and Sanchez would be great additions if we could get them. Need a top class centre half as well. Varnane would be ideal. But I cant see Real parting with him unless part of DeGea deal

Not a fear of it

Minderbinder

TheDoc wrote: »

Pro. F wrote: »

That has not been the issue being debated. The question was have we measurably improved this season, and the answer is yes.

Forgot to put that in sharper context about the author talking specifically about the attacking play, and referenced Van Gaal clear tactical instruction, and credited Mourinho for tacticaly making it better. Just not sure that is true.

But I think the evidence presented would very much have me concede that I accept and understand know where the progress in style is coming from, apart from the obvious stuff that I'd seem in certain games when we are clearly playing better. Statistically from two sources now, it is clearly better on those metrics.

League standing, results, poor home record and those dropped points will fuel emotion and belief that how could anyone claim it better, that I likely have been throughout the season, but I'm getting where people are coming from clearer now.

Like I said I never disagreed there was parts it was clearly better, I just didn't feel there was a consistent pattern or plan, and the team was still suspect to just as many poor or bad performances as good.

There is also no escaping the league form also by the way. Shouldn't be brushed aside, excused or ignored. Like others have said, big improvement required next season.

I think a lot of fans have simply put all their trust in Mourinho. They are determined to believe in him and believe he will bring us back to the dominant force of old, because if he doesn't, maybe no one can.

There is a fear that 3 years without a title will turn into 6, and 6 will turn into 10. I remember thinking Liverpool going 18 years was astounding but it can easily happen. It's not easy to get the right players and have the right chemistry on the pitch.

For a lot of fans Jose brought certainty. If he was sacked then we'd be going into the unknown. Maybe we'd need to find another Fergie. But it took the club a long time to find the first Fergie.

Hopefully we'll see a couple of wins in the league which will build a bit of form and confidence for this final. 2 points from our last 4 games is bad for the league, but since the league is a moot point now, it's bad for form in general.

I'm not ecstatic about the way the team/manager tackled the Arsenal and Spurs games and the manner in which we lost, but in the overall context I have to remember what Jose said immediately after the Swansea game - "Top 4 is gone now". I heard him say the words at the time, but watching the team in the league since then I only now really know what those words meant for the manager and his team. Or rather, the implications of them.

Had we have gotten that badly-needed win against Swansea and kept in the race, I have no doubt that the team/manager would have went about that Arsenal game a bit differently. I believe that Jose kept going with hopes and intentions for Top 4 until that desperate Swansea draw, and since then he has put all of the club's stash in the Europa joint. Sure he even said as much himself last weekend - "The Premier League for us at this moment is just a group of matches we don't want to play. All I'm thinking about right now is the final."

It's not ideal, but it is wholly pragmatic in a unique situation and given the way the season has turned out. Never mind for us the fans, CL football is an expectation for those working within the club. From the executive board, to the players, to Jose himself. Ideally, we would be entering next season's CL as PL Champions of course, failing that a secure 2nd position in the league or at least Top 4, but in this 1st season for Jose at United none of that is happening. Whatever it takes, within the rules, we need that Europa win.

Because of that, I fully understand the stance that Jose is taking now with the Europa v the PL. It potentially sucks for those fans attending the league games, never mind those just tuning in. And it is not what you want to see as regular practice, but I believe these are unforeseen circumstances and Jose is reacting accordingly to them.

There was loose talk of the PL Title before a ball was kicked last August. Whatever about the actual reality of that coming to pass this season, I'm not sure if Jose or the relevant people within the club anticipated a finish outside of the Top 4. Because of that, and injuries to some of our season's best players at important times during the run-in (Zlatan, Rojo, Mata, Pogba) we are at this point of high-prioritisation.

Of course the league position overall is important, very. I take no feeling of contentedness out of the fact that in the 4 post-Fergie years, the club's league finishes have been 7th, 4th, 5th, and now a 6th to go along with those. Turning those back into 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd etc. should be number 1 priority in general. In the meantime though during the transitional years where we (hopefully) work our way back to that, the club needs to maintain some level of success and European relevance. Having a presence in the Champion's League and picking up some trophies is the way to do that. The Europa obviously gives us a great opportunity to tick those two boxes at once.

As well as that, prioritising a European trophy over the league is not an unprecedented act at the club. Long before Jose did it, and before the days of Top 4 meaning CL qualification, or even before the Champions League as we know it was formed, Fergie faced a similar situation in prioritising the benefit of a major trophy and the success of that in itself over the league finish.



...And what a night that was. The league was gone for Sir Alex that season, Top 4 as a 'trophy' wasn't around then so Fergie took his shot at the club's best chance at success. Even though a 3rd placed finish that season would have been a vast improvement on 13th and 11th of the 2 seasons prior to that, the chance was taken to gain something tangible in a European trophy rather than a respectable league finish. A different time of course, but still a pragmatic move with a larger picture in mind.

Although it isn't fun to watch in real-time, overall I have no problem with Jose at this late stage prioritising the club's Europa Golden Ticket into the CL and using the league games to beat prepare for the final as he sees fit. It's not as if he's been taking the piss - The teams that he fielded in recent league disappointments weren't exactly "Nicky Butt boys" and IMO should have been capable of more.

Wrapping his preferred players for the final in cotton wool between last Thursday's semi and next Wednesday could be detrimental to the players, so I have no problem with Herrera, Mkhi and Rashford getting minutes against Spurs. I expect many of the players touted for the final will start tonight against Southampton.

After all of that preparation though, there still is another team showing up to the final. Anyone who outright discounts Ajax or their ability to create chances against us could be in for a sore awakening. We're going into this final with some of our best players from this season missing, Zlatan, Bailly, Rojo, DDG (that's another story) and with a tired squad who've been playing 2 games a week for the last few months. I don't take victory as a given and that will probably contribute to the fact that if it is achieved, I will celebrate it for the great achievement that it is.

The road starts tonight though. We could do with a win for form, morale and confidence. These last 2 league games against lower-placed teams would ideally have been for us to cement Top 4, now though they are for honing the team and game-plan for a must-win final. Must-win for the club and our CL qualification for next season, rather than the manager himself who has already improved the football and mentality of Manchester United greatly on the first steps out of a dark decline.

basillarkin

astradave wrote: »

Some of the most skilful players in the world play the No.10 role.. I think the role you are thinking of would be the second striker style role not a traditional No10 which would be more an attacking mid that would be threading thru balls and knitting the play together in the final 3rd.. when played there players like Mata Silva Ozil Coutinho and even Mkhi (to name a few in the PL) are extremely skilful players who would usually be the main assister on their team.

And Erikson, a class act. Very much underrated player who doesn't get the plaudits of his two English counterparts

~Rebel~

stankratz wrote: »

I'm not ecstatic about the way the team/manager tackled the Arsenal and Spurs games and the manner in which we lost, but in the overall context I have to remember what Jose said immediately after the Swansea game - "Top 4 is gone now". I heard him say the words at the time, but watching the team in the league since then I only now really know what those words meant for the manager and his team. Or rather, the implications of them.

That really bugged the ****e out of me at the time, was a total copout, and just felt like the first step towards setting up his narrative of league position. "well, we stopped trying, the league stopped mattering in the end".

If he set out to win those last two games that he effectively threw away, top four would be 100% in his hands. Would be 2 points behind pool with a game at hand.

FutureGuy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

That really bugged the ****e out of me at the time, was a total copout, and just felt like the first step towards setting up his narrative of league position. "well, we stopped trying, the league stopped mattering in the end".

If he set out to win those last two games that he effectively threw away, top four would be 100% in his hands. Would be 2 points behind pool with a game at hand.

Best case in my opinion, would probably be draws against Arsenal and Spurs.

bucketybuck

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think a lot of fans have simply put all their trust in Mourinho.

I'm sure you think a lot of things.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm sure you think a lot of things.

Great post.

JaMarcusHustle

It was always going to be tough after SAF left, and there were certain weaknesses in the squad that were apparent at the time, but I never in a million years would have had us down for 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes

adox

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

It was always going to be tough after SAF left, and there were certain weaknesses in the squad that were apparent at the time, but I never in a million years would have had us down for 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes

I still think the situation could have been avoided if handled better.

Lord TSC

adox wrote: »

I still think the situation could have been avoided if handled better.

I still think if Jose had gotten the job off the bat, was handed the then champions, and given the past four years instead of inheriting a mess three years in, we would be sitting in a far, far more comfortable position.

https://twitter.com/ManUnitedWorld/status/864725681288163328

DARK-KNIGHT

The romantic approach of going for a british manager has ****ed us over imo

if jose took over from Fergie we could be awesome... would jose have sold players like nani and chico??? I don't think so

fergiesfolly

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

The romantic approach of going for a british manager has ****ed us over imo

if jose took over from Fergie we could be awesome... would jose have sold players like nani and chico??? I don't think so

I still dont have problem with Moyes being given the chance. Ferguson knew him and trusted him
I don't t think he would've handed over his legacy, if he thought he wasn't up to the job.
Some poor initial choices and an erosion of confidence from the squad was his undoing.
Bit being British isn't what failed him.
And I'd hate to think British managers would be overlooked in the future for some romantic notion that foreign managers are better.

As for Nani.
Wouldn't have thought he was a Mourinho type player. Couldn't see him being kept on

FutureGuy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Vidal from Bayern would be my ideal signing, but it wont happen of course.

...are you trying to ask me something?

Hococop

FutureGuy wrote: »

...are you trying to ask me something?

Id say that ship has sailed on Vidal futureguy

adox

fergiesfolly wrote: »

As for Nani.
Wouldn't have thought he was a Mourinho type player. Couldn't see him being kept on

I actually think he would have had a lot of time for Nani. Unlike van Gaal, once a player works hard on the pitch(and Nani always did imo)Jose doesnt have a problem with them trying to express themselves and take risks with the ball.

Mantis Toboggan

adox wrote: »

I actually think he would have had a lot of time for Nani. Unlike van Gaal, once a player works hard on the pitch(and Nani always did imo)Jose doesnt have a problem with them trying to express themselves and take risks with the ball.

Nah Nani's poor workrate and defensive capabilities wouldn't suit Jose.

Mantis Toboggan

Whatever team he picks tonight let's hope we try to play positive football and score a few goals to build confidence.

StringerBell

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Nah Nani's poor workrate and defensive capabilities wouldn't suit Jose.

It is genuinely as if you don't actually watch games.

Nalz

Vidal - not likely at all and would be too costly for a guy in his 30s who's had a few injuries.

Kroos - yes please but again not a hope

James - hmmm, I'm on the fence, like I was with Di Maria.

Lukaku - get him

Greizemann - he's very good, but overratted. Top 10 players in the world, I don't think so.

Sanchez - would take him obviously but highly unlikely signing. Arsenal TV would blow up youtube!

Hococop

Nalz wrote: »

Vidal - not likely at all and would be too costly for a guy in his 30s who's had a few injuries.

Kroos - yes please but again not a hope

James - hmmm, I'm on the fence, like I was with Di Maria.

Lukaku - get him

Greizemann - he's very good, but overratted. Top 10 players in the world, I don't think so.

Sanchez - would take him obviously but highly unlikely signing. Arsenal TV would blow up youtube!

Sanchez will go to juventus or munich imo

RockSalto

I'd love to see James at AC Milan.

Mantis Toboggan

StringerBell wrote: »

It is genuinely as if you don't actually watch games.

Why's that, because my opinion is different to yours?

Was Nani good defensively?

Lord TSC

Seriously, another Nani debate?

Hococop

Lord TSC wrote: »

Seriously, another Nani debate?

Its 2017, the Chinese year of the nani

RockSalto

Nani's workrate for Portugal has always been excellent. It depends how the team plays.

I don't think players like Nani or Ronaldo make careers out of ignoring their manager's instructions. If the manager wants them to defend they will, otherwise as wingers/forwards - you want them further up for counters, especially when with their qualities.

paulbok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Seriously, another Nani debate?

Remind me what is the order for these?

we had Rooney 2 weeks ago,
Chico last week, Nani this week.
Must be Welbeck next week then?

The_Kew_Tour

At least we dont talk about TC23 anymore.

Small steps..

bucketybuck

paulbok wrote: »

Remind me what is the order for these?

we had Rooney 2 weeks ago,
Chico last week, Nani this week.
Must be Welbeck next week then?

Being completely serious, considering some of the specific issues we have had this season, all three of those players would have been a real benefit to the squad and improved us in places we needed improving.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

At least we dont talk about TC23 anymore.

Not him though, he was ****e.

Cantona's Collars

Sorry Jayop.

Guess who's getting off early for the EL final?:):):)

paulbok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Being completely serious, considering some of the specific issues we have had this season, all three of those players would have been a real benefit to the squad and improved us in places we needed improving.

As opposed to the one that is actually with us and has been of little use?

RobertKK

Graham Hunter says Bale to United is a real possibility,.
Other media is Spain says Bale would prefer a move to United over Spurs or Chelsea.

The_Kew_Tour

RobertKK wrote: »

Graham Hunter says Bale to United is a real possibility,.
Other media is Spain says Bale would prefer a move to United over Spurs or Chelsea.

Yes please although those injuries will be concern

bucketybuck

paulbok wrote: »

As opposed to the one that is actually with us and has been of little use?

That one has actually been a real problem, in that the new manager couldn't have known he would be so ineffectual and it must gave affected his planning.

We have suffered through not having any replacement for Zlatan and his goals, but I imagine at the start of the season Jose believed that Rooney would fulfil that role, that Rooney would be a perfectly good option up front. And that was understandable, this is our record scorer we are talking about.

But Rooney hasn't been up to pace all season and we have really suffered in the goalscoring dept. You have to wonder if Rooney hadn't still been at the club would Jose have bought another striker last summer?

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

At least we dont talk about TC23 anymore.

Small steps..

Maybe I should bring him back into the rotation of player debates in here.

Moyes was the reason we struggled in 13/14, not Cleverley. He'd be good enough as a squad player if he was still at the club now, much though the belly-aching of the fans who don't like him might try to paint it otherwise. A good mid-table CM is all he ever amounted to, which is a disappointment, but that is what he is, rather than the abboration on the sport some fans paint him as.