Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

StringerBell

I assume the game was ****e from our POV, how did Tuanzebe do though?

jayo26

StringerBell wrote: »

I assume the game was ****e from our POV, how did Tuanzebe do though?

Axel, Romero, Jones, were probably the best players for us Mkhitartan gave ball away constantly and mata was quiet enough again and martial looks like he is counting down the end of the season.

Rashford was full if energy when he came on.

I'm hoping.bext Wednesday it will be a more interested performance from them all they should all be fired up and hungry for it now with our best 11 on the pitch from the start.

Jayop

Rashford was our best outfield player and he was only on the pitch for a few minutes.

The_Kew_Tour

I might get run out against Palace.

Will bring me boots anyway

StringerBell

Martial is ice cold, he always looks the same even when he was scoring goals last year jokes were made about how down he looks most of the time. I do however think there is a noticeable difference in him when he is played as the striker, I don't think he has the build to work up and down a line for 90 minutes and he has always been best (imo) at beginning central, drifting to find space and attack of course but working from the centre as a starting point. His hold up ability is good and his sharp movements work better when he can go either way facing a defender.

He just isn't as effective from the left, but he is a hugely talented player who I would be happy to see developed and lead the line next season with the likes of Griezmann (for example) playing in the support role behind him who can also chip in with goals so as not to be totally reliant on him the way we have been with Ibra.

Rashford looks like he could be more effective then Martial from wide for the future, but he is obviously better from the centre. I am pretty sure he used to play midfield, and number 10 a lot for the underage teams, he has a better frame for working up and down the line all game too. Finding a way to work the two of them up top would be great, would be a diamond of sorts I would imagine.

Anyway, my main point is that Martial's demeanor wouldn't be a huge concern to me, he just has one of those faces. He has also had a traumatic year off the field which I am willing to allow him some slack for, I hope to see a big improvement from him next season though and for him to be played up top where his potential is greatest.

Rayne Wooney

The tactics we have used this season in the bigger games are perfect for a team that wants to win league titles, limit them scoring whilst giving us a chance on the break. Titles aren't won against Chelsea or Spurs even though we did beat both this season, they are won in all the games we f*cked up in Swansea, Stoke, Watford, Hull the list goes on games we dominated but couldn't kill them off.

Jayop

Yeah it's clear Martial isn't happy out wide. Like you I wouldn't worry about him looking sulky. He seems to come alive centrally.

Mantis Toboggan

Great to see Romero playing well, deserves his shot at the number one Jersey next season although worrying that he was man of the match.

Jose doesn't seem to be able to motivate our attacking players as they look disinterested. We won't win too many games with just 1 shot on target. Serious improvement needed if we are to beat Ajax.

deaddonkey15

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The tactics we have used this season in the bigger games are perfect for a team that wants to win league titles, limit them scoring whilst giving us a chance on the break. Titles aren't won against Chelsea or Spurs even though we did beat both this season, they are won in all the games we f*cked up in Swansea, Stoke, Watford, Hull the list goes on games we dominated but couldn't kill them off.

Perfect is a bit much. Your description of the tactics is essentially what any mid table or lower half team does when they play one of the big sides. Ideally, it should be the likes of Chelsea, City, Liverpool that try and limit us scoring whilst catching us on the break and not the other way around.

domrush

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The tactics we have used this season in the bigger games are perfect for a team that wants to win league titles, limit them scoring whilst giving us a chance on the break. Titles aren't won against Chelsea or Spurs even though we did beat both this season, they are won in all the games we f*cked up in Swansea, Stoke, Watford, Hull the list goes on games we dominated but couldn't kill them off.

This is how Stoke City play, not title contenders. United scored one lucky goal in six away games against the top teams. That is not perfect tactics for a team that wants to win league titles.

secman

Lord TSC wrote: »

What has happened? He's not taken champions down to the lower half of the table again. He's taken us, in terms of league table position, from fighting for top four to fighting for top four. In the mean time, he's managed to drastically improve play style (over the season), phased out underperforming players without anyone kicking up a fuss, has us in a EL final (despite underperformance a) and looks set to continue that work in the summer.

This idea that it's "2 clubs in a row" sounds like a lovely narrative to paint if you were already predisposed to hating Jose (which you have been quite clear about since day one) but the narrative very clearly falls apart with a few seconds thought.

You seriously think we fought for top 4, that really is stretching the imagination, you are correct though I always had a dislike of Mourinho, so rather than be a hypocrit i continued to dislike him. We have been pretty dire since Christmas. He simply hasn't got the best from the squad. I wish the season had been better, that we actually put in a credible crack at the title let alone a crack at 4th. I sincerely hope we win next Wednesday but am very worried about our current form and lack of urgency from many of the squad.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Martial is ice cold, he always looks the same even when he was scoring goals last year jokes were made about how down he looks most of the time. I do however think there is a noticeable difference in him when he is played as the striker, I don't think he has the build to work up and down a line for 90 minutes and he has always been best (imo) at beginning central, drifting to find space and attack of course but working from the centre as a starting point. His hold up ability is good and his sharp movements work better when he can go either way facing a defender.

He just isn't as effective from the left, but he is a hugely talented player who I would be happy to see developed and lead the line next season with the likes of Griezmann (for example) playing in the support role behind him who can also chip in with goals so as not to be totally reliant on him the way we have been with Ibra.

Rashford looks like he could be more effective then Martial from wide for the future, but he is obviously better from the centre. I am pretty sure he used to play midfield, and number 10 a lot for the underage teams, he has a better frame for working up and down the line all game too. Finding a way to work the two of them up top would be great, would be a diamond of sorts I would imagine.

Anyway, my main point is that Martial's demeanor wouldn't be a huge concern to me, he just has one of those faces. He has also had a traumatic year off the field which I am willing to allow him some slack for, I hope to see a big improvement from him next season though and for him to be played up top where his potential is greatest.

Good post.

You said you didn't see the game tonight, you missed **** all, but 1) Martial actually smiled!! and 2) He hit the post with our best opportunity of the game. It was some nice dribbling from him, a decent shot, with Rashford doing some excellent running to drag defenders and open up the space for Martial. It was almost that moment of magic to make up for a poor enough game.

https://streamable.com/rsjms

Hococop

stankratz wrote: »

Good post.

You said you didn't see the game tonight, you missed **** all, but 1) Martial actually smiled!! and 2) He hit the post with our best opportunity of the game. It was some nice dribbling from him, a decent shot, with Rashford doing some excellent running to drag defenders and open up the space for Martial. It was almost that moment of magic to make up for a poor enough game.

https://streamable.com/rsjms

Actually that reminded me, what is our total for the season for hitting the post?

Hank Scorpio

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Great to see Romero playing well, deserves his shot at the number one Jersey next season although worrying that he was man of the match.

Hasn't set a foot wrong in all the time he's been at the club, underrated imo!

Liam McPoyle

Hococop wrote: »

Actually that reminded me, what is our total for the season for hitting the post?

Iirc Pogs has hit the woodwork 9 or 10 times alone.

Liam O

I think it's the way the team are set up. Look at Barca or Madrid, are Bale/Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar or whoever is playing out wide tracking up and down the wing? This whole defensive responsibility thing seems to be more prevalent in the top teams in England than elsewhere. Even when Nani was carrying the team going forward a few years back every second game someone would say that he's not doing enough defensively. This even though he was getting back a lot!

If you are going to play with 3 in the middle without a No. 10 you need the wingers to be pushed high or else who is going to support the striker? Fellaini seems to be the one being asked to break forward from midfield but even he has a large amount of defensive responsibility. It has been the same since late in the Fergie era, he counteracted it somewhat by just overloading the pitch with attackers towards the end of games and having great finishers capable of that bit of magic. Right now there is no support for the attackers and nobody pushing the opposition full backs up the pitch and it is resulting in the blunt performances we've seen the last few weeks.

Hococop

Rod Munch wrote: »

Iirc Pogs has hit the woodwork 9 or 10 times alone.

Found an article on the 5th of April, 27 times so over 30 overall

In pl we have 20, tied for 2nd with city, spurs ahead with 22, thought we were miles ahead with hitting the woodwork

bucketybuck

secman wrote: »

See that's the problem right there, better management of the squad would have had players fighting for a start in europa cup final. The players should have been busting guts to try and make the starting 11. Really bad Man management. Lots of players going through the motions,

When I think of players fighting for a place in the team for a cup final I think of something that should be coming from the players.

Bad management? If these players cannot motivate themselves in such a position then that says far more about their own character than anything else.

But then we have been seeing this lack of character for 3 seasons now so I won't say I am surprised.

rwbug

Hit woodwork in Pl -

Spurs 22, Man City 20, Bournemouth 19, Man Utd 19, Liverpool 18
De Bruyne 9, Pogba 6, Eriksen 5, Sanchez 5, Wilshire 5

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/hit_woodwork
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players

secman

bucketybuck wrote: »

When I think of players fighting for a place in the team for a cup final I think of something that should be coming from the players.

Bad management? If these players cannot motivate themselves in such a position then that says far more about their own character than anything else.

But then we have been seeing this lack of character for 3 seasons now so I won't say I am surprised.

Why bother with manager so ?

bucketybuck

secman wrote: »

Why bother with manager so ?

Is that a serious response?

secman

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is that a serious response?

Obviously not. Managers role encompasses motivating and getting players in right frame of mind as well as tactics. Too many of our squad are underperforming for whatever reason.

Robson99

Liam O wrote: »

I think it's the way the team are set up. Look at Barca or Madrid, are Bale/Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar or whoever is playing out wide tracking up and down the wing? This whole defensive responsibility thing seems to be more prevalent in the top teams in England than elsewhere. Even when Nani was carrying the team going forward a few years back every second game someone would say that he's not doing enough defensively. This even though he was getting back a lot!

If you are going to play with 3 in the middle without a No. 10 you need the wingers to be pushed high or else who is going to support the striker? Fellaini seems to be the one being asked to break forward from midfield but even he has a large amount of defensive responsibility. It has been the same since late in the Fergie era, he counteracted it somewhat by just overloading the pitch with attackers towards the end of games and having great finishers capable of that bit of magic. Right now there is no support for the attackers and nobody pushing the opposition full backs up the pitch and it is resulting in the blunt performances we've seen the last few weeks.

Good point. Wingers are coming far too deep and as I said previously practically as fullbacks in some games. Thats not the players fault. Thats down to the manager

bucketybuck

secman wrote: »

Obviously not. Managers role encompasses motivating and getting players in right frame of mind as well as tactics. Too many of our squad are underperforming for whatever reason.

The managers role encompasses a lot of very important things.

But if the players even need the manager to motivate them one week before a major cup final then I'm sorry, those players aren't winners.

People will of course blame the manager, because they want to blame the manager. And I blame the manager for plenty of things as well, I don't like a lot of what I have seen this past 6 weeks.

But on this you have to blame the players, if they can't push themselves in a situation like this then they aren't worth a damn, no matter what the manager does or doesn't do.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

The managers role encompasses a lot of very important things.

But if the players even need the manager to motivate them one week before a major cup final then I'm sorry, those players aren't winners.

People will of course blame the manager, because they want to blame the manager. And I blame the manager for plenty of things as well, I don't like a lot of what I have seen this past 6 weeks.

But on this you have to blame the players, if they can't push themselves in a situation like this then they aren't worth a damn, no matter what the manager does or doesn't do.

What players dont seem motivated or interested and deserve to be moved on ?

v3ttel

StringerBell wrote: »

Martial is ice cold, he always looks the same even when he was scoring goals last year jokes were made about how down he looks most of the time. I do however think there is a noticeable difference in him when he is played as the striker, I don't think he has the build to work up and down a line for 90 minutes and he has always been best (imo) at beginning central, drifting to find space and attack of course but working from the centre as a starting point. His hold up ability is good and his sharp movements work better when he can go either way facing a defender.

He just isn't as effective from the left, but he is a hugely talented player who I would be happy to see developed and lead the line next season with the likes of Griezmann (for example) playing in the support role behind him who can also chip in with goals so as not to be totally reliant on him the way we have been with Ibra.

Rashford looks like he could be more effective then Martial from wide for the future, but he is obviously better from the centre. I am pretty sure he used to play midfield, and number 10 a lot for the underage teams, he has a better frame for working up and down the line all game too. Finding a way to work the two of them up top would be great, would be a diamond of sorts I would imagine.

Anyway, my main point is that Martial's demeanor wouldn't be a huge concern to me, he just has one of those faces. He has also had a traumatic year off the field which I am willing to allow him some slack for, I hope to see a big improvement from him next season though and for him to be played up top where his potential is greatest.

Just to add to this, I think Martial would be better with a full back that was competent in attack playing with him.

I like Darmian & Blind but they never make runs beyond him, never commit players, never run in behind to help to make space for him. They offer the square root of nothing going forward in the vast majority of games.

I think Martial would play a lot better on the left when paired with Shaw. It's difficult to play when you have to beat two or three players every time you get the ball and have limited help.

DM_7

v3ttel wrote: »

Just to add to this, I think Martial would be better with a full back that was competent in attack playing with him.

I like Darmian & Blind but they never make runs beyond him, never commit players, never run in behind to help to make space for him. They offer the square root of nothing going forward in the vast majority of games.

I think Martial would play a lot better on the left when paired with Shaw. It's difficult to play when you have to beat two or three players every time you get the ball and have limited help.

Also, in games like today, he needs runners to move people around. When be hits the post he has players running across him and moving defenders.

In a match at OT, when United are in control he needs support from a full back.

In more open games he needs to be getting he ball with others moving around him. Real movement, not just running towards goal like often happens and sees attacks breakdown in the rush to make something happen.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/BBCAllieHB/status/864978127772143616

~Rebel~

bucketybuck wrote: »

The managers role encompasses a lot of very important things.

But if the players even need the manager to motivate them one week before a major cup final then I'm sorry, those players aren't winners.

People will of course blame the manager, because they want to blame the manager. And I blame the manager for plenty of things as well, I don't like a lot of what I have seen this past 6 weeks.

But on this you have to blame the players, if they can't push themselves in a situation like this then they aren't worth a damn, no matter what the manager does or doesn't do.

I guess it depends on their relationship. If they think a good performance might earn them a spot, then you would imagine they should be automatically motivated.

But you get the impression that Jose effectively freezes players out of his first team, and you just know you're not getting in unless someone gets injured, no matter what you do.

In which case I could see these outcast players at the end of the season just wanting it to be over, not even seeing the final as anything that has much to do with them.

dfx-

domrush wrote: »

This is how Stoke City play, not title contenders. United scored one lucky goal in six away games against the top teams. That is not perfect tactics for a team that wants to win league titles.

The thing is I don't think United have even been up for the EL run either - there has been no clear run there either, scrambling over the Russian side, extra time for Anderlecht and last gasp miss by Celta, all three second legs at home and they're staying in the game comfortably.

It's not as if they're switching on for those games. Barring Chelsea at home with an early goal against a side already pretty much Champions...when have United turned up this season?

GSPfan

Interesting article on Walker Rose and Dier but to be honest I am expecting the whole Spurs first team this Summer to be making waves as they are now obviously under paid in the current market and Id say they now have two great seasons of performances to back up their claim for more money. City and ourselves would be really interested. That alone would mean they have a very powerful bargaining position.

kayevajo

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCAllieHB/status/864978127772143616

is there anyway we can stop anything to do with the s** appearing on this thread?

Lithium93_

Some team news for the game against Palace on Sunday. According to José

Sunday will be a big day for the kids because lots of them are going to play, I hope the crowd enjoys that, in spite of it not being a big, strong Manchester United team.

Joel Pereira will make his Premier League debut in goal against Sam Allardyce's Eagles at Old Trafford. Demi Mitchell, Matty Willock, Josh Harrop and Zak Dearnley

Paul Pogba will return and get a run out as well. Great to see José playing the younger players, give them a chance to impress ahead of pre-season and maybe earn a spot in the senior squads for next season.

TitianGerm

rwbug wrote: »

Hit woodwork in Pl -

Spurs 22, Man City 20, Bournemouth 19, Man Utd 19, Liverpool 18
De Bruyne 9, Pogba 6, Eriksen 5, Sanchez 5, Wilshire 5

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/hit_woodwork
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players

I had a conversation with a United supporting friend about this the weekend. He was saying if United had of scored all the chances they hit the post with they'd be comfortably be in the top four.

Looking at the stats I don't think they would now.

Based off what he was saying I was expecting United to have hit the post 25-30 times. Turns out it's quite a bit lower.

Looking at previous seasons it does seem quite a jump for United so maybe that's why he thought they had hit the post so much this season.

27 in 2013/2014 for Liverpool is a massive number of times to hit the post though.

GSPfan

Hitting the post to me means exactly the same as hitting row z. The target is the inside of the posts. Anything other than that is a miss.

TitianGerm

GSPfan wrote: »

Hitting the post to me means exactly the same as hitting row z. The target is the inside of the posts. Anything other than that is a miss.

That's what I said to my friend. He said it's more unlucky than hitting the corner flag though.

I couldn't convince him that hitting the post is still not a shot on target

GSPfan

Just wanted to post this comment cause it was just on the tv there but the Ronaldo Sixpad advert on the tv is a hoot.

He's a cheesy fooker who has the balls to stand there in his pants with these things stuck to him with a horrific soundtrack and dialogue,but I don't think anyone other than him can get away with it. He's made some career for himself. Genuinely think he deserves everything he has.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Dier has to be the most overrated English player atm, really hope we dont sign him

Cantona's Collars

kayevajo wrote: »

is there anyway we can stop anything to do with the s** appearing on this thread?

I usually don't post their stuff but people like to see what gossip is out there.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Romero easily MOTM.

Usual lack of desire from a lot of players though. Usual group don't seem at all bothered. Roll on summer...

When the manager has publicly stated this games are just a nuisance and we don't care, not surprised the players arn't getting up for it.

Mitch Connor

emmetkenny wrote: »

That's what I said to my friend. He said it's more unlucky than hitting the corner flag though.

I couldn't convince him that hitting the post is still not a shot on target

Hate that kind of reasoning though, myself.

Yes, it results in the same as putting it a mile wide - but if you are aiming for the top corner and you hit the post/bar you were extremely close to where you were aiming. A slight (positive) variance in the situation and you might have scored. Hitting the corner flag you were a mile away and never close to scoring.

In most matches you aren't going to score by rolling it down the middle of the goal either, so you have to take the risk of putting the ball, at pace, near the woodwork - if you aren't aiming for those areas you likely aren't going to score. The closer to the centre of the goal those attempts go, the less likely you are to score. If you hit the woodwork you were very close to where the shot needed to be and you were a little unlucky.

bucketybuck

zerks wrote: »

I usually don't post their stuff but people like to see what gossip is out there.

Do they?

I personally would be happier if Twitter links were banned from these threads, such utterly meaningless ****e the lot of it.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do they?

I personally would be happier if Twitter links were banned from these threads, such utterly meaningless ****e the lot of it.

Breaking news happens on Twitter first before any other outlet in fairness.

It's summer transfer window, we are going to lose the run of ourselves. Take a leaf from my book, I just snapped out of it. I read whats posted here or whatever, but just take nothing for serious until the solid reliables start to push it.

Last summer was lovely just having no hopes built until I saw deals being confirmed.

TitianGerm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Hate that kind of reasoning though, myself.

Yes, it results in the same as putting it a mile wide - but if you are aiming for the top corner and you hit the post/bar you were extremely close to where you were aiming. A slight (positive) variance in the situation and you might have scored. Hitting the corner flag you were a mile away and never close to scoring.

In most matches you aren't going to score by rolling it down the middle of the goal either, so you have to take the risk of putting the ball, at pace, near the woodwork - if you aren't aiming for those areas you likely aren't going to score. The closer to the centre of the goal those attempts go, the less likely you are to score. If you hit the woodwork you were very close to where the shot needed to be and you were a little unlucky.

That's true. But if you don't score or make the keeper save (or another player clearing off the line) you haven't hit the target so you may as well have been a mile wide.

Saying that I enjoyed some of the Liverpool attempts last weekend where they hit the post and crossbar. It seems more exciting when you thump the woodwork :pac:

Very hard for Pogba to be mentally prepared after such a tragic loss for him personally.
I only hope he uses that emotion in the final to produce another good performance.
I see he's travelling to the palace game which is good as he hasn't trained for a while now.

*Edit* New on that here

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2017/May/Jose-Mourinho-confirms-young-eleven-against-Palace-but-Paul-Pogba-returns.aspx

TheDoc

I'm looking more forward to the Palace game than any of our league games for weeks.

Hoping with so many youngsters looking to prove themselves we see some actual effort given and a hungry young team. Also imagine they will be somewhat ignorant to Mourinho's tactics, and hopefully he just tells them to go out and enjoy it and express themselves. Interested to see what we have going through the ranks. Watch the academy and reserve team a bit through the season on MUTV, and apart from 2-3 players, doesn't look like there is much there to look forward to.

StringerBell

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm looking more forward to the Palace game than any of our league games for weeks.

Hoping with so many youngsters looking to prove themselves we see some actual effort given and a hungry young team. Also imagine they will be somewhat ignorant to Mourinho's tactics, and hopefully he just tells them to go out and enjoy it and express themselves. Interested to see what we have going through the ranks. Watch the academy and reserve team a bit through the season on MUTV, and apart from 2-3 players, doesn't look like there is much there to look forward to.

The positive I take from that is that if we are being honest (those who do watch the reserves/academy a lot), Rashford didn't look like he was going to be making big waves in the senior team either but he has taken to first team football brilliantly.

Lord TSC

I love transfer season. I take none of it seriously at all, but find it very amusing

posturingpat

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Dier has to be the most overrated English player atm, really hope we dont sign him

The 3 spurs boys would be disappointing buys, all overrated, Rose would be an improvement to what we have but would likely be a silly price with the English mark up, Dier would add nothing to us and Valencia is better than walker even though he may only have a few seasons yet.

Somebody like Emerson of Roma could be worth a gamble at left back if he could be got at a reasonable price, surprisingly good at the defensive side of the game for a young Brazilian full back.

GSPfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do they?

I personally would be happier if Twitter links were banned from these threads, such utterly meaningless ****e the lot of it.

To be honest we all engage in utter meaningless shíte talking all the time in here so we can't really give out about twitter links. Twitter is great if you take none of it seriously. And it provides some brilliant breaking news stories before anywhere else.

Id choose twitter over any other form of social media.