Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

that role has been phased out really. Most "holding" midfielders are more dynamic than the Makelele-type who used to fill the role. Its the likes of Kante who "hold" midfields now.

No its the likes of matic that hold the midfield. I would never put Kante as a holding or defensive midfielder he is more of an all rounder but he plays beside matic who sits back and does the holding.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

that role has been phased out really. Most "holding" midfielders are more dynamic than the Makelele-type who used to fill the role. Its the likes of Kante who "hold" midfields now.

agree - think I said last summer Pogba and Kante would be a perfect midfield pairing (and affordable for United) but obviously that isn't happening.

My general point is we need someone to be the defensive minded player who can provide a platform for Pogba and Herrera to attack more - both of those players put themselves about so I'm not saying we'd need this signing to do all the defensive work.

Tom.D.BJJ

Would love Veratti.

If Chelsea get him alongside Kante, and keep Hazard :eek::eek::eek:

posturingpat

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Would love Veratti.

If Chelsea get him alongside Kante, and keep Hazard :eek::eek::eek:

Is there talk of him leaving? I'd say he's plenty happy with PSG. Brilliant player though even if he is a bit mental :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

To be honest we could do with bit of head case.

Not many good ones about though

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

To be honest we could do with bit of head case.

I thought we had that with fellaini

bucketybuck

v3ttel wrote: »

If we can get 4 or 5 seasons out of him, that would be good business. The only negative is that he is 29, but then again, so was RVP.

So was Van Persie, but in the end we only got one good season from Van Persie, followed by two distinctly average seasons.

I think its very optimistic to expect 4/5 good seasons from a 29 year old, especially one playing in a position that requires a high level of fitness and mobility.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

IMO it depends on the position and the younger players we have around them.

I would be very happy with a 29 year old CB for example.

An experienced midfielder if the other guys are younger is a good thing too imo.

I do think United lack leadership, and that generally comes with age.

I was going to edit in that you could make an exception for centre-backs or keepers, because they peak later. I wouldn't have been against us buying a 29 year old CB at the start of the season for example. You could maybe also make an acception for strikers, but if you are one of the biggest spending clubs in the world, you really don't need to be doing that.

Personally I think leadership is overrated. Not that it's not important, but just that buying older players to get it is not worth it. You see so many teams with relatively young profiles having success that the leadership issue becomes irrelevant. Imo just buy good players with the right attitude, put them in their proper positions, coach them properly and you'll find your squad has plenty of leadership.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't think Naingolan is the right player though - from what I know of him. I think we need a properly defensive midfielder to play behind Herrera and Pogba, or to be the defensive player in a midfield two. I think Naingolan is closer to what we want from Pogba and Herrera rather than a compliment to them.

Not sure who we could be looking at for such a role though.

That's another thing. He works hard defensively, but has very rarely played as a pure DM (without another DM also in there). Maybe he has that in his game, but I've never seen it tested. I wouldn't be surprised if Jose was going to use him as a utility midfielder - playing him wide in big games and things like that. He fits the profile of that type of player that Jose always likes and his system probably needs.

As for DMs, I'd be looking at Weigl (if he gets over his injury), Diawara (from Napoli) and Bakayoko. Bakayoko maybe needs a bit of polish in terms of concentration in defence and possession, but does look good.

v3ttel

bucketybuck wrote: »

So was Van Persie, but in the end we only got one good season from Van Persie, followed by two distinctly average seasons.

I think its very optimistic to expect 4/5 good seasons from a 29 year old, especially one playing in a position that requires a high level of fitness and mobility.

Might be a fair point, but the team was complete dysfunctional all over the pitch under Moyes and had zero attacking intent under LVG. I don't think it's entirely fair to say it was down to Van Persie's age that his second and third seasons weren't as good. Not one player in the squad played as well under Moyes as they did in Fergie's last season.

Maybe it is optimistic to expect 4 or 5 good seasons, but we've fielded Scholes (38?), Carrick (35?) and Giggs (40?) as CMs when winning trophies. It's not unreasonable to think Naingollan will be playing at a very good level when he is 33.

Regardless, if Naingollan is the difference between being successful or not in the next 1 or 2 seasons, like Van Persie, I would rather take him for whatever he can give us, rather than do without completely.

The_Kew_Tour

jayo26 wrote: »

I thought we had that with fellaini

More of tough nut think more Roy Keane type head case

yabadabado

If Naingollan was signed then it may well be United are signing two cm's which wouldn't be that strange considering two CMs have left in the last few months and Carrick is on his last legs.

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

Maybe not but he seems to have a decent engine and has a good physique. There is never any ideas of who is going to have a long career but he don't seem to be injury prone neither.

Indeed, you can't really know who is going to age well when they pass their peak. So you shouldn't be assuming that Nainggolan will be one who does. What you can know is that if we buy players in the early to mid twenties, deterioration due to age is not something that's going to be giving us a lot of trouble.

jayo26 wrote: »

As I say at the right moneyy I can't see why age would be a problem.

You can use "at the right money" to justify all sorts of poor transfer targets. The current rumoured price is £34m, that doesn't sound like any sort of discount.

Lord TSC

At £34m in today's market, if we got two great seasons out of him, I'd be happy.

RobertKK

There was talk that Nainggolan loves Rome too much and wanted to stay unless that changed.

Pro. F

v3ttel wrote: »

Maybe it is optimistic to expect 4 or 5 good seasons, but we've fielded Scholes (38?), Carrick (35?) and Giggs (40?) as CMs when winning trophies.

Come on now. That is not a good reason to buy older players.

v3ttel wrote: »

It's not unreasonable to think Naingollan will be playing at a very good level when he is 33.

It kind of is. I mean, it's more reasonable to expect a player we buy in his early to mid twenties to be still performing at a very good level in four years than it is to expect a player a 29 to be doing so. There's a reasonable chance that a 29 will deteriorate due to age in the next four.

v3ttel wrote: »

Regardless, if Naingollan is the difference between being successful or not in the next 1 or 2 seasons, like Van Persie, I would rather take him for whatever he can give us, rather than do without completely.

That's a false choice. There's no reason why we would have to do without if we didn't buy Nainggolan. There's plenty of good players out there to be bought.

bucketybuck

v3ttel wrote: »

Maybe it is optimistic to expect 4 or 5 good seasons, but we've fielded Scholes (38?), Carrick (35?) and Giggs (40?) as CMs when winning trophies.

And I think ultimately we suffered for fielding each of those players at those ages.

I'm not totally against bringing in high quality older players but it has to be the right players at the right price. ?34m doesn't sound like the right price to me, especially when I'm not sure if he is exactly the type of DM we need.

Antibac

This Sunday could be the end of the Wayne Rooney era.Potentially his last competitive game as a Utd player at Old Trafford(Will probably play in Carricks testimonial)

adox

OT but RIP Chris Cornell. What a voice.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I think ultimately we suffered for fielding each of those players at those ages.

I'm not totally against bringing in high quality older players but it has to be the right players at the right price. ?34m doesn't sound like the right price to me, especially when I'm not sure if he is exactly the type of DM we need.

He isn't even DM. He is more attacking player now than defensive. He is very good defensively but also good at attacking, he is proper box to box player and not the disciplined deep player.

adox

adox wrote: »

OT but RIP Chris Cornell. What a voice.

That was unreal news to wake up to, if you are a fan of his work or even music in general. One of the greatest singing voices to walk the planet.

jayo26

Player of the year on tonight it's times like this I miss lvg.

The_Kew_Tour

jayo26 wrote: »

Player of the year on tonight it's times like this I miss lvg.

I don't.:pac:

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I don't.:pac:

Ahh stop one of the funniest moments in years was his speech it's one thing Jose will never match.

Lord TSC

It's between Ibra, Val and Ander, yeah?

v3ttel

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not totally against bringing in high quality older players but it has to be the right players at the right price. ?34m doesn't sound like the right price to me, especially when I'm not sure if he is exactly the type of DM we need.

A few seasons ago, I would fully agree with you but with transfer market being so incredibly inflated, it is what it is. He is a quality player with 3 years left on his contract. I think it's just about reasonable, if the manager is sure that is the style of player he wants (and I agree that a well rounded box to box player is the way to go).

I guess where I disagree with some is whether we need a DM or not. Although Naingollan is not a DM, he is still very good defensively. Our problem this season has been scoring goals. I want a well rounded midfielder who can defend and also attack, chipping in with a few goals and assists. A DM isn't going to solve our tendency to draw at home to weak sides.

Pro. F wrote: »

Come on now. That is not a good reason to buy older players.

It kind of is. I mean, it's more reasonable to expect a player we buy in his early to mid twenties to be still performing at a very good level in four years than it is to expect a player a 29 to be doing so. There's a reasonable chance that a 29 will deteriorate due to age in the next four.

That's a false choice. There's no reason why we would have to do without if we didn't buy Nainggolan. There's plenty of good players out there to be bought.

OK, I can see the direction you are trying to take this which inevitably ends up in a huge back and forth that nobody wants to read, so better to park it here.

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

It's between Ibra, Val and Ander, yeah?

Ibra by a country mile for me.

MuPpItJoCkEy

If United were to get a DM, I'd like it to be William Carvalho. The lad has been playing well for the last couple of seasons. He is a skillful player and has an eye for a pass from what I've seen. He is is over 6ft1 and doesn't look like he'd be bullied off the ball easily which is usually teh type Mourinho likes from what I can see. He is only 25 so at a good age and has a buy out claus of €45 or ?35 stg which seems reasonable in todays market.

jayo26

MuPpItJoCkEy wrote: »

If United were to get a DM, I'd like it to be William Carvalho. The lad has been playing well for the last couple of seasons. He is a skillful player and has an eye for a pass from what I've seen. He is is over 6ft1 and doesn't look like he'd be bullied off the ball easily which is usually teh type Mourinho likes from what I can see. He is only 25 so at a good age and has a buy out claus of €45 or ?35 stg which seems reasonable in todays market.

He would be ideal the Portuguese are going to have some midfield in a couple years time that Pereira chap seems to be really doing well too.

Lukekul

I seen two posts on facebook earlier that herrera won player of the year and tuazabe won reserves player of the year. Both posts seem to be gone now and no word about it?

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

Come on now. That is not a good reason to buy older players.



It kind of is. I mean, it's more reasonable to expect a player we buy in his early to mid twenties to be still performing at a very good level in four years than it is to expect a player a 29 to be doing so. There's a reasonable chance that a 29 will deteriorate due to age in the next four.

What is wrong with some signings for today and the next couple of years? Obviously it would be bad as the only recruitment but a player who probably wont be as good in 4 years can still be a major asset now.

mickmackey1

Presume ye already know it but 17 wins this season is Utd's lowest ever in the Prem.

MuPpItJoCkEy

jayo26 wrote: »

He would be ideal the Portuguese are going to have some midfield in a couple years time that Pereira chap seems to be really doing well too.

Ideal is right. Sure with the fee from Schneiderlin and Depay, that fee is covered before even the tipping into whatever becomes available for the summer.

I take it you're talking about Danilo Pereira? I can't really say that I have seen enough of him to really comment.

Korat

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Presume ye already know it but 17 wins this season is Utd's lowest ever in the Prem.

I did not know that.

The league results have been very disappointing, must do better next season. No excuses.

jayo26

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Presume ye already know it but 17 wins this season is Utd's lowest ever in the Prem.

Why ya have to be so negative we also have the most draws too but out no mention of that

Lithium93_

The ever lovely Rachel Riley at the clubs end of the year awards.

Mars Bar

Angles Gomes has won the Youth Player of The Year. Mkhitaryan's scorpion goal against Sunderland has won the Goal of the Season.

thelad95

64,70,66, and probably 69 or 67 are the points totals since SAF left.

Four different managers including giggs and feck all difference in end result.

In all those seasons we're 15-20 points off of where we need to be. What's really been frustrating this season is that with all the outrageous draws, especially at Old Trafford we could so easily have gotten those 15 points.

1-1 at home to stoke
0-0 away to Liverpool when zlatan missed a sitter
0-0 at home to burnley
1-1 at home to Arsenal
1-1 at home to West Ham
1-1 at home to Liverpool (better side, pogba missed a sitter)
1-1 away to stoke
0-0 at home to Hull
1-1 at home to Bournemouth
0-0 at home to west brom
1-1 at home to Swansea

I've probably missed a few, but you could easily pluck the fifteen points out of those games.

Jose bringing in more of 'his' players and ditching some of the disinterested deadwood gives me a lot of optimism.

Pro. F

DM_7 wrote: »

What is wrong with some signings for today and the next couple of years? Obviously it would be bad as the only recruitment but a player who probably wont be as good in 4 years can still be a major asset now.

The thing that's wrong with it is that we'd end up with a weaker squad than we could have. Keeping your best players together over time is a better way to build a squad than being forced into transfers because of age taking it's toll.

We are one of the biggest spending clubs in the world, we should expect to get one of the best teams out of that. Buying 29 year old midfielders does not achieve that.

Rayne Wooney

Chelsea only scored 9 more open play goals but 14 more set piece goals than us.

domrush

thelad95 wrote: »

64,70,66, and probably 69 or 67 are the points totals since SAF left.

Four different managers including giggs and feck all difference in end result.

In all those seasons we're 15-20 points off of where we need to be. What's really been frustrating this season is that with all the outrageous draws, especially at Old Trafford we could so easily have gotten those 15 points.

1-1 at home to stoke
0-0 away to Liverpool when zlatan missed a sitter
0-0 at home to burnley
1-1 at home to Arsenal
1-1 at home to West Ham
1-1 at home to Liverpool (better side, pogba missed a sitter)
1-1 away to stoke
0-0 at home to Hull
1-1 at home to Bournemouth
0-0 at home to west brom
1-1 at home to Swansea

I've probably missed a few, but you could easily pluck the fifteen points out of those games.

Jose bringing in more of 'his' players and ditching some of the disinterested deadwood gives me a lot of optimism.

I don't see whats outrageous about half of those games, just most recently Utd were lucky to get anything at all against Swansea. Unless you're saying that most of those are games a top team should be winning at a canter?

deaddonkey15

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Chelsea only scored 9 more open play goals but 14 more set piece goals than us.

Our set pieces are terrible.

Lord TSC

Valencia wins players player of the year.

Lord TSC

domrush wrote: »

I don't see whats outrageous about half of those games, just most recently Utd were lucky to get anything at all against Swansea. Unless you're saying that most of those are games a top team should be winning at a canter?

Not on paper, but the matches...we dominated most of them or missed easy chances. They were games where if the players had shown a bit of killer instinct, we would have won, many of them 4 or 5 nil...

bucketybuck

domrush wrote: »

Unless you're saying that most of those are games a top team should be winning at a canter?

It has nothing to do with being a top team, its because in many of those games we dominated and created a bagful of very scoreable chances.

Its the specifics of those games that lead people to suggest we could easily be 10/15 points better off now, nothing else.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

The thing that's wrong with it is that we'd end up with a weaker squad than we could have. Keeping your best players together over time is a better way to build a squad than being forced into transfers because of age taking it's toll.

We are one of the biggest spending clubs in the world, we should expect to get one of the best teams out of that. Buying 29 year old midfielders does not achieve that.

Yes, keeping a core is important over time.

If United signed Perisic (example) and got three good years out of him perhaps the next Rooney would be available to be brought in to get 10 years from.

Sometimes a player who is exactly what he is going to be is best rather than a player of potential. A Diego Milito for Jose in his past, Dani Alves for Juve, Zlatan for PSG then United.

United are on a position where some short term signings can really help the team compete for major titles as the right players to bring in (to the team like Rashford or add a new signing) for a longer period are identified.

caviardreams

Jaysus. Harry Kane. Can't see Spurs falling away while he is still with them. What a talent. No. 1 on my dream transfer list.

Kiith

Keep your bloody mitts off him :P

The_Kew_Tour

Levy holds all the right cards here. Think he will stay actually.

Best English striker since Shearer.

How Soon Is Now

caviardreams wrote: »

Jaysus. Harry Kane. Can't see Spurs falling away while he is still with them. What a talent. No. 1 on my dream transfer list.

It would take utter insane money to get him from Spurs.

Be worth it though hes the real deal dont think anyone can doubt that now. Twenty plus goals in his last three seasons.

If they can keep there best players and keep adding to the squad why the **** would he wanna leave though?

Can see them winning the league sooner rather then later.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Levy holds all the right cards here. Think he will stay actually.

Best English striker since Shearer.

Can't see why any English player would want to leave spurs. They have everything to offer at moment apart from the mega wages.