How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

Sunflower 27

Glenster wrote: »

People on boards would do anything to excuse/defend/mitigate scroungers, and the fact that working people fund them.

3 points

The dole is not designed to be a long term option

Taxes paid in the state (including PAYE) fund the 193 quid a week (minimum) people get for doing nothing

Anyone can get a minimum wage job, they're everywhere. so the idea of looking for work is nonsense, people are either looking for work they want, or not looking.

My points still stand. Your taxes dont all go to people on the dole. Your taxes pay for far more than that;

And

50% tax is an exaggeration

steddyeddy

Lacey Helpful Sifter wrote: »

Yes at the higher rate of tax and include USC and PRSI the deduction is approximately 50%, that's not even including the pension levy which increases that figure even further and is just another tax. Add in DIRT, vat, vrt, car tax, etc and the figure starts to climb even more.

50% of your tax is going on social welfare? Let's say all of you're tax is going on SW. That's 50% of your wages. A previous poster mentioned that probrably 4% of those on the dole are lifers. So 4% of your 50% tax would be going towards lifers. That's 2% of your tax going to lifers and we all know 50% of your tax isn't going on SW. Let's say it's 5% of your tax. Then it's 0.2% of your tax going to lifers.

Hardly worth getting stressed about dude.

Sunflower 27

steddyeddy wrote: »

50% of your tax is going on social welfare? Let's say all of you're tax is going on SW. That's 50% of your wages. A previous poster mentioned that probrably 4% of those on the dole are lifers. So 4% of your 50% tax would be going towards lifers. That's 2% of your tax going to lifers and we all know 50% of your tax isn't going on SW. Let's say it's 5% of your tax. Then it's 0.2% of your tax going to lifers.

Hardly worth getting stressed about dude.

Yes. Is it really worth it?

Glenster

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

My points still stand. Your taxes dont all go to people on the dole. Your taxes pay for far more than that;

And

50% tax is an exaggeration

No-one said all their taxes go to pay people benefits, Although a huge amount does.

And no-one said the tax rate was 50% on your gross salary.

But if I get an increase in salary, I pay back over 50% of that in taxes, seems like a 50% tax rate to me.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

steddyeddy

Glenster wrote: »

People on boards would do anything to excuse/defend/mitigate scroungers, and the fact that working people fund them.

3 points

The dole is not designed to be a long term option

Taxes paid in the state (including PAYE) fund the 193 quid a week (minimum) people get for doing nothing

Anyone can get a minimum wage job, they're everywhere. so the idea of looking for work is nonsense, people are either looking for work they want, or not looking.

How much of the 193 a week is spent and put back into revenue? A lot if not most of it. If it's the doing nothing that bothers you we can look at that too. Most of Ireland worked during the boom so most people prefer to work. We don't need opinion when we have facts.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Jesus how is this still open.

The Legend Of Kira

Hollister11 wrote: »

Plenty of people I went to school with are working full time in supermarkets. Most would be on circa €10 per hour.

How do people live on roughly 400 quid a week. Now they all live at home with the folks but what are they going to do in the future when they need a mortgage? How are they going to afford it?

I'm in college atm, and earn €50 a week, just to get by, but I'm sacrificing money now to have a good paying job for life.

Would these people not go to college and at least doubt what there on now a few years after graduating?

EDIT: Thread Title should be - How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

Would these people not go to college and at least doubt what there on now a few years after graduating?

Have you ever thought or considered that not everyone is cut out for college ? one guy I know who has learning difficulties is working in a certain supermarket a good number of years & seems happy to be in the job he,s in.

steddyeddy

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You're conflating that with dole numbers. Not the same thing.

Glenster

steddyeddy wrote: »

You're conflating that with dole numbers. Not the same thing.

I think it was just in response to you saying how much Irish people loved to work.

Motivator

I was earning €500 a week before tax for about 3 years and I was actually a lot happier than I am now. I earn a lot more per week now but when I think back to when I was earning that money I didn't have half the stress I have now.

I knew my limitations every week and I knew what I could afford. Nowadays I earn a lot more but have a lot more responsibilities and bills to pay. Now, I couldn't afford to live my current life on €500 a week and I don't know how anybody can do it to be quite honest. It just seems impossible. I don't smoke and I don't gamble and I have a semi regular social life. I love my holidays and that's what my money is spent on - that and my mortgage. Not a chance I could do any of the things I enjoy on minimum wage or slightly higher.

steddyeddy

Glenster wrote: »

I think it was just in response to you saying how much Irish people loved to work.

The one I backed up with full employment during the boom.

Pac1Man

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Jesus how is this still open.

Before I answer that, answer me this.

How much milk do you drink per week? Choose your words carefully now.

WhiteMemento9

Edith Tart Thundercloud wrote: »

Add actually having to do a day's work.

This is something no one generally likes to talk about as if it is a persons duty to society to work. Lets say I am €40 better off at the end of the week after expenses. For anyone doing a menial job with little prospects of progression or job satisfaction it is only natural that your mind wanders to the conclusion that you are essentially doing a 40 hour week for a €1 an hour.

The medical card has a far higher value than the amount of money it saves you from week to week. The kind of peace of mind that someone has from owning a medical card is something you can't really put a price on.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Graces7

Bambi985 wrote: »

Honestly I could think of nothing worse than rushing to Tesco/Aldi/Lidl at stupid hours to bulk buy that discounted veg or salad or meat that's about to go off just to save a few quid. I'd rather buy my meat at Waitrose for a higher price but that will last longer and taste better, because otherwise I'm losing valued free time and not enjoying my food. So I guess it depends on your definition of "value".

Really? I can think of many worse things. Like having no food.. IF that were the way it is. I check reduced if I am already out shopping ..
No time lost and I enjoy my food.

And the reduced stock is not "about to go off" .
There are very strict sell by rules and the produce is sold well within the sell by dates.
I did a 2 week shop yesterday and saved well over 16 euro by just checking what was reduced. All perfectly good food, far too good to throw out. Made stews that freeze, raw chickens in the freezer for the dog and cats. I do not eat meat anyways. Many of the vegetables are long keepers .

We live in a wasteful society. They bin food that others would need. tesco are starting to cop on to this as they do in other countries

Many of us have no choice . And that is fine too. You have a different choice is all. That is fine. By me

<snip>

pilly

Karsyn Ancient Bridge wrote:

There is a large percentage of people on the dole who are making zero effort to work that is a fact. I see many of them every single day hanging around taking and spending their day going between the pub and bookies. Then there is another cohort who pop out kids to increase their social welfare income and expect free houses.

As opposed to spending their days posting on boards?

pilly

I actually think it's laughable how so many people get wound up by someone stating how it's possible to live on very little and actually turn to personal attacks over it.

Disgusting behaviour.

Graces7

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Have you ever thought or considered that not everyone is cut out for college ? one guy I know who has learning difficulties is working in a certain supermarket a good number of years & seems happy to be in the job he,s in.

I know parents of under 10s who are already saving to send the kids to college. They see themselves as failing as parents if their children do not go to college. One I knew had 4 grown lads who were doing course after course with no jobs in mind and helping dad on the farm was beneath them.

4ensic15

Graces7 wrote: »

I know parents of under 10s who are already saving to send the kids to college. They see themselves as failing as parents if their children do not go to college. One I knew had 4 grown lads who were doing course after course with no jobs in mind and helping dad on the farm was beneath them.

It could be worse. Some parents don't save, and then there is no college even if the kids want it.

Wanderer78

4ensic15 wrote: »

It could be worse. Some parents don't save, and then there is no college even if the kids want it.

some parents cant save

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

I know parents of under 10s who are already saving to send the kids to college. They see themselves as failing as parents if their children do not go to college. One I knew had 4 grown lads who were doing course after course with no jobs in mind and helping dad on the farm was beneath them.

My father worked day and night so he could afford a full education for his children. He never had much and he knew education was one way out of the poverty we were born in to. Thank God he did. It's no shame for four sons on a small Kerry farm to want to go a different route.

pilly

Graces7 wrote:

I know parents of under 10s who are already saving to send the kids to college. They see themselves as failing as parents if their children do not go to college. One I knew had 4 grown lads who were doing course after course with no jobs in mind and helping dad on the farm was beneath them.

Absolutely. I've said it already, if everyone goes to college then qualifications become meaningless.

In fact it's happening already.

neonsofa

4ensic15 wrote: »

It could be worse. Some parents don't save, and then there is no college even if the kids want it.

Exactly, I don't see the harm in saving so that the kids have that option.

r93kaey5p2izun

I don't know how families do it, I don't see how it could add up. Must be very tough. I know I as a single person could live on a fairly low income. I currently live on €260 per week because I'm saving and I think it's grand. But I would find the lack of security that comes with a low wage hard to cope with as I already find it difficult enough as it is in a much better position. The stress of that would really get to me.

Peregrine

Can we move on from the whole Graces7 driving discussion discussion earlier? That includes you, Graces7.

It's got nothing to do with the topic. There won't be more warnings. And cut out the backseat moderation too please. Thanks.

Mod

steddyeddy

Edith Tart Thundercloud wrote: »

My father worked day and night so he could afford a full education for his children. He never had much and he knew education was one way out of the poverty we were born in to. Thank God he did. It's no shame for four sons on a small Kerry farm to want to go a different route.

Same applies to my mother. I wouldn't be where I am without her. I think I'll actually call her and tell her that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Same applies to my mother. I wouldn't be where I am without her. I think I'll actually call her and tell her that.

Do that. My father died before any of us were grown and he never got to see how we fared and we never got to thank him. My mother was always proud and we made sure she benefitted from our success.

Call your Mother and just say thanks.

Education isn't the only answer but for us it was the only route to a decent livelihood at that time.

cefh17

steddyeddy wrote: »

Same applies to my mother. I wouldn't be where I am without her. I think I'll actually call her and tell her that.

I'm sure she'll appreciate that

My parents put me through college fully, no grants or need for a part time job though I did have one when the opportunity arose. I'm deeply appreciative of that, and conscious of how lucky I was to be in that situation as much as college was a stress at times. Now I'm off on my own I do throw my parents money now and again, not that they'd ever ask but it's my way of saying thanks (as well as actually saying thanks!) for the sacrifices they made for me especially during college

steddyeddy

Edith Tart Thundercloud wrote: »

Do that. My father died before any of us were grown and he never got to see how we fared and we never got to thank him. My mother was always proud and we made sure she benefitted from our success.

Call your Mother and just say thanks.

Education isn't the only answer but for us it was the only route to a decent livelihood at that time.

I'm sorry to hear that Edith Tart Thundercloud. My mother will benefit from my success too. I brought her over to England to see me recently and was happy to see me happy.

I will call her. It's not the only route to success but it's something I always wanted. She helped that.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

As opposed to spending their days posting on boards?

It's Sunday afternoon/evening

steddyeddy

Lacey Helpful Sifter wrote: »

It's Sunday afternoon/evening

And how much milk have you drank?

ash23

About ten years ago I was a single parent on not much more than minimum wage. I got FIS (thankfully) and had a medical card.
I rented privately with no assistance as I was over the threshold and was also not eligible for social housing.
So I was paying 750 pm rent. And 400pm childcare, increased to 600pm in summer and holidays.
In total I was coming out with about 2110 pm and over half of that went on childcare and rent.
So I had about 250 a week for all my bills and to support myself and my child.
Most weeks we ticked along ok. But there were bad weeks. Summer was tough because of the bigger crèche bill. Weeks where a school bill or car expense or cold winter threw everything because there was just no wiggle room. No extra 100 available when the car breaks down or the temps drop to -5 for weeks and your oil runs out. Those two bad winters really were very tough.
At times I thought about giving up work. Basically I was working full time for not much more than I'd have been getting on one parent family payment.

I stuck it out and things are now much better. I'm earning about 15k more per year now. Plus I'm in assisted housing so the rent is half what I had been paying.kiddo is grown so no childcare.

I have breathing space and savings. We're not wealthy but I can pay my bills in advance and know the money is there for direct debits.
I don't have spa breaks or foreign holidays. But I have peace of mind and honestly I think that was, for me, what was hardest about working for so much less.....The constant worry about the next bill, the next oil fill etc.
I still manage my finances and don't spend lavishly but that stress is gone and that to me is all I need.

Glenster

4ensic15 wrote: »

It could be worse. Some parents don't save, and then there is no college even if the kids want it.

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

Geuze

Yourself isit wrote: »

I might be wrong but I think that's the average full time industrial wage.

The average is not a useful figure anyway. Full time when less so. One industry even less so.

Edit: the cso is all jobs not industrial. Still the mean though.

Yes, the median would be good to have as well, but the CSO don't publish median wages.

Here are mean earnings from 2015
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2015/

All workers = 36,519
FT workers = 45,075
PT workers = 16,332

All workers average per hour = 21.90


Here is Eurostat data for 2014:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Earnings_statistics

Data refer to workers in firms of 10+ staff.

Median hourly earnings = 20.20 [2nd highest in EU]
Median hourly earnings, adjusted for price level in Irl = 18.40 PPS

Eurostat definition of low wages = 2/3 or less of the median

Low-wage threshold = 13.40 ph
Percentage of low-wage earners = 21.6% [averages are 16-17%]

Geuze

Eurostat data on the distribution of earnings, 2014

D10 Lowest decile = 10.60 ph, so 10% of workers earn less that this

D90 top decile = 43.60 ph, so 10% of workers earn more than this

Graces7

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

Thinking back; we were in the UK grant supported. It was means tested. Which is fair enough, It was enough if careful to live on. Not sure if many did work part time during term but during the holidays yes. The Christmas Post was one such.

But then young folk did not go to university or college in the numbers they do here now. Of my 6th form year, I think maybe 5 of us went to University and a very few more to teacher training college .

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

Out of interest, how much were the fees and the rent when you went to college?

Lu Tze

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

I also worked through college, but that was a while back. How easy do you think it would be to get a part time job if one was in college in the last ten years?

I feel sorry for my nephew, just coming into leaving cert now but unable to get part time or summer work at all. Getting my first paid job at 14/15 had a huge impact on me, and had a load of money saved by the time I went to college (I couldn't spend that amount if I tried, €3 per hour!)

jamesthepeach

About 20 years ago myself and my other half ended up with a job each for the first time.
We had only ever managed to have one job between us before that.

So we made the decision to live on one wage and save the second wage. We had no difference in lifestyle because we were used to it.

In 2007 she lost her job and couldn't get one for 3 years. We did the notice at all because all that was effected was savings.

Since she got her next job we do the same again. Save all of one wage and live on the other.

I'm 100% sure that if we had changed our lifestyle to use both wages we would have been hurting a hell of a lot more and would probably think we were on the breadline now.

But as it is we live a very happy life and go might decide on a Monday that we are taking the following Monday off and going somewhere nice for the weekend in Europe.

We would not have e been able to do that on even two wages had we not made that decision to save the second wage back then.

Now as we get older that second wage can be dipped into whenever we feel like it for big luxuries.

Living proof that the more you earn the more your lifestyle spend is. If you don't let lifestyle inflation run away with you at the start, like a lot of friends i know did, you will think you have the life of Reilly on half what someone else is scraping by on.

That's my long winded way of saying .....
It's all relative.

Graces7

pilly wrote: »

I actually think it's laughable how so many people get wound up by someone stating how it's possible to live on very little and actually turn to personal attacks over it.

Disgusting behaviour.

There has been a polar shift. In my youth, managing on little was a virtue. Came from wartime and postwar rationing. And we all grew food.

Ways I still adhere to . From choice. Our mottos were waste not want not.. make do and mend. Values that will stand you well in hard times.

One eyed Jack

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

I agree with the first part of your post, in that part time jobs definitely are the answer, but that's a work ethic IMO that has to be bred into children, when they are children. It's too late by the time they're going to college if it hasn't been.

The bit in bold though, I can't agree with at all. I would still do anything to support a young person and give them every opportunity I could to make a good life for themselves, because I too did the whole college + jobs thing and quite frankly it was shyte trying to burn the candle at both ends. I wouldn't wish it on anyone if I could help it.

Lu Tze wrote: »

I also worked through college, but that was a while back. How easy do you think it would be to get a part time job if one was in college in the last ten years?

I feel sorry for my nephew, just coming into leaving cert now but unable to get part time or summer work at all. Getting my first paid job at 14/15 had a huge impact on me, and had a load of money saved by the time I went to college (I couldn't spend that amount if I tried, €3 per hour!)

I can't agree with this either. There are plenty of employment opportunities for young people to earn an income to support themselves while in third level education. I know plenty of young people who do, and they value their independence. My own child would be the same, but at the same time I'm happier knowing that the support is there if he wants or needs it.

AdamD

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

No it doesn't.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

There has been a polar shift. In my youth, managing on little was a virtue. Came from wartime and postwar rationing. And we all grew food.

Ways I still adhere to . From choice. Our mottos were waste not want not.. make do and mend. Values that will stand you well in hard times.

Trying hard to keep to the Minimum wage topic but...managing on little is still a virtue. It came from poverty and predates the war in this country.

Lu Tze

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I agree with the first part of your post, in that part time jobs definitely are the answer, but that's a work ethic IMO that has to be bred into children, when they are children. It's too late by the time they're going to college if it hasn't been.

The bit in bold though, I can't agree with at all. I would still do anything to support a young person and give them every opportunity I could to make a good life for themselves, because I too did the whole college + jobs thing and quite frankly it was shyte trying to burn the candle at both ends. I wouldn't wish it on anyone if I could help it.





I can't agree with this either. There are plenty of employment opportunities for young people to earn an income to support themselves while in third level education. I know plenty of young people who do, and they value their independence. My own child would be the same, but at the same time I'm happier knowing that the support is there if he wants or needs it.

How much opportunity do you think there was for students/teenagers when the unemployment rate was 15%? That's what I'm referring to, in the last 10 years. Some will be lucky, but the majority likely didn't get part-time or summer work, unless they lived in areas with large seasonal industries like tourism.

neonsofa

Lu Tze wrote: »

How much opportunity do you think there was for students/teenagers when the unemployment rate was 15%? That's what I'm referring to, in the last 10 years. Some will be lucky, but the majority likely didn't get part-time or summer work, unless they lived in areas with large seasonal industries like tourism.

Exactly, especially during the recession when employers had their pick of anybody, when pretty much all vacancies stated "over 5 years experience/ degree level of education" for jobs that did not even require a degree, or "must be eligible for jobbridge". Employers didn't want to choose an inexperienced young fella who could only do certain shifts that fit in with their class schedule when they could have the best of the best for the exact same price because people took what they were offered.

Winterlong

Edith Tart Thundercloud wrote: »

Trying hard to keep to the Minimum wage topic but...managing on little is still a virtue. It came from poverty and predates the war in this country.

There was a lot less expectation back then that the parents or state would house, clothe and feed you ad infinitum. And that was a good thing.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Winterlong wrote: »

There was a lot less expectation back then that the parents or state would house, clothe and feed you ad infinitum. And that was a good thing.

That's the thing. There's this horrible attitude where some people feel they're owed a living, that there's grants and allowances available for everything. People who've never contributed to the pot but are first out there to reap everybody else's tax contributions.

I think that's wrong. I would love to see the government help the people on min wage more. Encourage people to work. Reward people who contribute/have contributed. You shouldn't be able to reap the benefits of everyone else's taxes when the people who've paid them are entitled to nothing but even more cuts

paulmurphyvec

they survive by cutting their cloth to suit their measure ie they budget. Everyone in college assumes they walk out with a degree straight into a high paying job, then the real world comes up and smacks them back. you budget for whatever income you have that's how they survive

Glenster

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I agree with the first part of your post, in that part time jobs definitely are the answer, but that's a work ethic IMO that has to be bred into children, when they are children. It's too late by the time they're going to college if it hasn't been.

The bit in bold though, I can't agree with at all. I would still do anything to support a young person and give them every opportunity I could to make a good life for themselves, because I too did the whole college + jobs thing and quite frankly it was shyte trying to burn the candle at both ends. I wouldn't wish it on anyone if I could help it.

As would I. But I don't think someone living off the bank of mammy and daddy when in college is realising his/her potential.

And I think that they're less equipped to deal with the real world (which, I think we can all agree, is a balls) once they graduate.

And finally, it was tough working and studying, but I was 18 and healthy and had no dependents and was well able for it. Having a part time job and moaning about it is part of the college experience.
Obviously if you're circumstances are different you'll have different needs. I'm just talking about those people in my specific situation.