How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

lmimmfn

Gringo180 wrote: »

Most warehouse jobs are paying min wage. Somevody has to do them. There is a huge % of the population not fortunate enough to go to college for whatever reason. Im not saying everybody should be on 20 quid an hour but pay them a wage that they can live on.

I know, its unfortunate but min wage dictates the min standard of living( let's exclude dole heads just.....different kettle of fish ). If min wage increases so does inflation and what people are willing to pay for things, its a zero end game increasing it honestly and really the government is the main beneficiary.

JamboMac

Hollister11 wrote: »

Computer Science, I'm specialising in softwared development.

You could equally be on 30k your whole career. Which isn't bad but a lot of people don't get those great wages.

Hollister11

Zascar wrote: »

I don't know about software development, but another field where you can make very good money is IT sales. Big demand right now for salespeople in Dublin especially, so many tech companies fighting to hire people. If you have 2-3 years decent IT sales experience you can make 70k-80k. You can make 100k+ if you do well and progress over a few years and hop between companies. Have a read of this - it may be a stretch in 1000 days but it can be done in 5-7 years.

What baffles me is how few people actually set out to study what careers can pay top money and steer their careers towards that. Many just go into whatever and wonder why they never got rich.

My neighbour is actually in IT Sales with Oracle. He seems to be doing pretty well. Benefits are good too. He's on sick leave the last 4 months and he is getting his full wage for as long as it takes him to get better.

lmimmfn

Hollister11 wrote: »

My neighbour is actually in IT Sales with Oracle. He seems to be doing pretty well. Benefits are good too. He's on sick leave the last 4 months and he is getting his full wage for as long as it takes him to get better.

most large companies insurance covers that, usually limited to 6 months though

Mrs OBumble

OP to answer your question:

Anyone on that wage long term doesn't try to buy a house: they cant afford it. Best case, we provode social housing for them to have a stable address.

They pay almost no tax.

And if they have kids they get child allowsnce and FIS.

Most likely they qualify for a medical card.

And if things go wrong they go to Vincent de Paul or similar for food.

Smart ones get promoted to better jobs eg retail management.

Lyle Lanley

Hollister11 wrote: »

So you hate ambitious people? Unless you get a degree, or a trade your not building a career for yourself.

Your definition of ambition is working your arse off to make money and get a nice job title. That's not ambitious. Any dickhead can get a degree and move up the corporate ladder. Its a nonsense you've been conditioned to believe is normal.

If you're lucky you might be able to cut back to a 60 hour working week by the time you're 60. That's probably too ambitious though.

Tigger

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I'm on >€100k per annum, and I'd burn you all on this thread to be 21 again and on €25k per annum. ALL of you. ALL OF YOU.

This

Arcade_Tryer

lmimmfn wrote: »

I know, its unfortunate but min wage dictates the min standard of living( let's exclude dole heads just.....different kettle of fish ). If min wage increases so does inflation and what people are willing to pay for things, its a zero end game increasing it honestly and really the government is the main beneficiary.

The evidence says otherwise. Effects of minimum wage increases on inflation are largely insignificant. Employment effects are the main issue regarding the minimum wage, and yet most new research suggests the employment effects of gradual increases are also insignificant. The calculated living wage is €11.50 and the minimum wage is €9.25, having been increased by 10 cent per hour in January. A fair and easily sustainable minimum wage would be in and around €10 per hour in 2017, especially in Dublin city.

lmimmfn

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The evidence says otherwise. Effects of minimum wage increases on inflation are largely insignificant. Employment effects are the main issue regarding the minimum wage, and yet most new research suggests the employment effects of gradual increases are also insignificant. The calculated living wage is €11.50 and the minimum wage is €9.25, having been increased by 10 cent per hour in January. A fair and easily sustainable minimum wage would be in and around €10 per hour in 2017, especially in Dublin city.

Please provide the "evidence" then
If McDonalds staff get >10euro per hour, I really don't see how that can equate to a cheap burger, unless its crap and which they do.

Outside of welfare I don't see how increasing the the cost of the lowest common denominator won't impact inflation insignificantly.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Arcade_Tryer

lmimmfn wrote: »

Please provide the "evidence" then
If McDonalds staff get >10euro per hour, I really don't see how that can equate to a cheap burger, unless its crap and which they do.

Outside of welfare I don't see how increasing the the cost of the lowest common denominator won't impact inflation insignificantly.

I could post 50 studies produced in the last five years here pointing towards the insignificance of minimum wage increases on inflation. Obviously I'm not going to. You can do the research yourself via google. And obviously not all are Ireland focused, but the general consensus is that the inflation effects of minimum ages are not an issue. Where there is still disagreement, though not as much as in the past, is regarding the employment effects.

Even if you think about it intuitively, there are not enough people earning the minimum wage to result in changes in inflation due to small, gradual increases. And the increases are so small that they are barely noticeable to both producers and the public. For example, the minimum wage in Ireland was increased by 10 cent in January, yet I doubt any worker earning above the minimum wage went to their boss and asked for a similar increase to remain comparatively ahead by 10 cent!

Arcade_Tryer

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yeah, I proposed this idea a few months ago. It seems intuitively feasible, though there is the potential problem of an influx of minimum wage workers into Dublin, which would very possibly have inflation effects, and further impact the rental market for existing workers.

La.de.da

People learn to budget. Or as my gran would say "you cut your cloth to your measure ".

Not all people are geared toward mortgages etc.

Tbh where I live €400-€500 is an average decent wage.

Life ain't all about money.

rounders

Coming from someone about to graduate in the IT sector, average starting graduate programs are between 35k to 40k including benefits like bonuses, share options etc.

My guess in 5 years, you'd be looking at 45k to 50k depending on your drive and determination plus other varibles like luck and the company your working for.

Beyondgone

La.de.da wrote: »

People learn to budget. Or as my gran would say "you cut your cloth to your measure ".

Not all people are geared toward mortgages etc.

Tbh where I live €400-€500 is an average decent wage.

Life ain't all about money.

Where's that then? It isn't c.a 50km radius of stephens green anyway.

Arcade_Tryer

Beyondgone wrote: »

Where's that then? It isn't c.a 50km radius of stephens green anyway.

€500 per week goes a quite a distance if living in a rural Irish town or village with no dependents. Of which there are many remember.

lmimmfn

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

For example, the minimum wage in Ireland was increased by 10 cent in January, yet I doubt any worker earning above the minimum wage went to their boss and asked for a similar increase to remain comparatively ahead by 10 cent!

Erm public sector, Guards, Luas, soon to be Teachers/Army
You can find 50 articles on minimum wage increases having positive effects and i can find 50 articles on increasing minimum wage having detrimental effects.

Its my opinion and ill stand by it until someone shows me irrefutable evidence to the contrary but if the minimum wage is 10 euro and e.g is increased to 12 euro, everyone from fast food guys to cleaners get 20% more, indirectly that will end up having a macroeconomic effect of higher spending and therefore higher inflation( considering the amount of people on this rate ), when inflation increases absolutely everyone must try to get a wage/salary increase even to keep the status quo.
The point is, increasing the minimum wage( beyond a point which we have well overshot by now ) does not benefit those it is supposed to benefit. Their increases will be drowned out in inflation and no one is more happy with a super inflated economy than the government.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

lmimmfn

Beyondgone wrote: »

Where's that then? It isn't c.a 50km radius of stephens green anyway.

i think thats your( and the governments ) problem right there.

PARlance

Hollister11 wrote: »

Computer Science, I'm specialising in softwared development.

There will be lads in Indiad doing your job for €80 a week.

Widdershins

bmwguy wrote: »

You can't have a mortgage, a new car, kids,holidays and a social life on top of savings and pension funding on 400 a week but you can have some of them and be happy.

Maybe two of them.

I know quite a few in the working poor category. They're not teenagers or single people in their 30's, they have families and they don't manage, they're in debt.

deco nate

Zascar wrote: »

Someone should start a new thread without the spelling mistakes. Is this about living on minimum wage or Op's potential wage?

Boat

Arcade_Tryer

lmimmfn wrote: »

Erm public sector, Guards, Luas, soon to be Teachers/Army
You can find 50 articles on minimum wage increases having positive effects and i can find 50 articles on increasing minimum wage having detrimental effects.

Their demands have absolutely nothing to do with the minimum wage being increased. And you won't find 50 from any half way decent economists and within the last decade. But you're welcome to try.

Its my opinion and ill stand by it until someone shows me irrefutable evidence to the contrary but if the minimum wage is 10 euro and e.g is increased to 12 euro, everyone from fast food guys to cleaners get 20% more, indirectly that will end up having a macroeconomic effect of higher spending and therefore higher inflation( considering the amount of people on this rate ), when inflation increases absolutely everyone must try to get a wage/salary increase even to keep the status quo.

Yeah, which is why nobody with any sense or knowledge of the issue, is proposing such an increase. Small, gradual increases is the best way to utilise minimum wage policy, hence the 10 cent increase in January. Though I don't think a minimum wage of €10 per hour is going to have anywhere close to the economic effects you seem to think it would.

The point is, increasing the minimum wage( beyond a point which we have well overshot by now ) does not benefit those it is supposed to benefit. Their increases will be drowned out in inflation and no one is more happy with a super inflated economy than the government.

This just is not true for small, gradual increases, and increases which reflect the changing economic current within a country.

Aph2016

lmimmfn wrote: »

Erm public sector, Guards, Luas, soon to be Teachers/Army
You can find 50 articles on minimum wage increases having positive effects and i can find 50 articles on increasing minimum wage having detrimental effects.

Its my opinion and ill stand by it until someone shows me irrefutable evidence to the contrary but if the minimum wage is 10 euro and e.g is increased to 12 euro, everyone from fast food guys to cleaners get 20% more, indirectly that will end up having a macroeconomic effect of higher spending and therefore higher inflation( considering the amount of people on this rate ), when inflation increases absolutely everyone must try to get a wage/salary increase even to keep the status quo.
The point is, increasing the minimum wage( beyond a point which we have well overshot by now ) does not benefit those it is supposed to benefit. Their increases will be drowned out in inflation and no one is more happy with a super inflated economy than the government.

A 2 euro increase to the minimum wage would lead to job losses and companies closing down.

cefh17

I was on the dole after college for a year, €100 a week, still living at home but not for lack of trying to get literally any job. Factory job for a year and a bit before moving into my current role in which I'm very comfortable and lucky to save nearly 40-50% (being nearly the same as my take home in the factory job) of my net before rent/bills/social stuff etc

I don't see this mad focus in some people to be on X thousand per year as if that's the sole measure of success or job satisfaction, to be honest for most people I'd say to have a job they don't dread going into each morning and a bit of cash after all outgoings is a fair luxury.

Once I can pay my bills and not have the anxiety of not being able to afford some unforseen expense like car breakdown hanging over me I'm happy. That being said, I do hear a lot of colleagues my age ~25 or so taking loans for cars/holidays etc which sounds mad to me

MagicHumanDoll

I think the problem, OP, is that you are judging yourself based on the potential money your degree gets you.

1. Your degree entitles you to nothing, it just proves you're qualified to do a certain task/tasks

2. Money isn't everything. Earning 10K less p/a, but working in a job you enjoy (in my book) is better than a job you hate that pays better (if
you have the choice, not everyone does)

3. People live on less money than others, that's life. They "survive" by living within their means, even if that requires sacrifices.

4. I can't stress enough how lucky you are to be able to; get a degree, a degree that betters your career opportunities over these school friends, a degree many perhaps aren't intelligent enough to be able to do, a degree you hopefully enjoy.

Widdershins

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

not sure how authentic his moneyless experiment was, but worth a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Boyle_(Moneyless_Man)

lmimmfn

Aph2016 wrote: »

A 2 euro increase to the minimum wage would lead to job losses and companies closing down.

its an example, you cant give an example of a 5cent increase that would have any tangible( yet it is there ) macroeconomic effect.
Minimum wage in this country is far too high as is social welfare, it should be more aligned with UK rates along with UK rates for public sector.

We have a society where those on minimum wage have nothing, those on social welfare have nothing and those middle income earners with kids have nothing( because all their money goes to childminding ), yet politicians, their mates, their well protected hospital consultants and barristers are loaded and dictate what us plebs should have or should not have.

The problem isint minimum wage, the problem is the cost of the things that the government is in control of, VAT rate,TAX rates, PRSI rates, USC rates, electricity, gas, oil, petrol/diesel, cigs, beer, health insurance( huge levies ), car insurance( Quinn direct bailout levy ), credit card levies, bank card levies, GP/my/now doc cost, cost of accident/emergency.

Thats the $hit people should be tackling not minimum wage or public sector wanting increases, lets decrease all that crap so everyone benefits.

Yourself isit

Aph2016 wrote: »

A 2 euro increase to the minimum wage would lead to job losses and companies closing down.

And yet seattle hasn't seen that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I left school, went to college and got a "real" degree. Finished college in the middle of a recession, and did another course as a hobby during my year out. Thought it was going to be the easiest course in the world, boy was I mistaken. Qualified at the end of the year from three different awarding bodies. Soon found a job, but not before I had to work for free to gain experience.

The money was terrible - min wage. Which felt like I was being cheated considering how much the course and exams cost. The industry was horrible. Mean girls, cut throat, hard selling. But I enjoyed the practical side of my job and was eager to learn new skills. So, that's what I did. Constantly upskilled. Some was covered/taught by work, some I had to cover myself.

It sucked not having a proper guaranteed contract, being messed around with hours, **** money, but I still enjoyed the work, and I built up a client base from home too, which kept me busy.

After 4/5 years it changed for the better, I was offered a decent job with much better pay, built my skills up a lot, was getting recognition in "best of" awards and doing quite well.

Now I work for myself, and earn more than I would with my actual real degree that people thought I was mad throwing it away for my second choice. Thing is, the first degree may be more professional but I wouldn't have loved it as much as what I'm doing now, and wouldn't get the same opportunities with it.

So, I wouldn't be so quick to look down your nose at people on minimum wage. You've no idea where you'll be in ten years.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Corkgirl18

After a 4 year teaching degree I'm earning just about €400 a week.
Still live at home which is grand but moving out next year and have no idea how I'm going to do it.

Hollister11

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I left school, went to college and got a "real" degree. Finished college in the middle of a recession, and did another course as a hobby during my year out. Thought it was going to be the easiest course in the world, boy was I mistaken. Qualified at the end of the year from three different awarding bodies. Soon found a job, but not before I had to work for free to gain experience.

The money was terrible - min wage. Which felt like I was being cheated considering how much the course and exams cost. The industry was horrible. Mean girls, cut throat, hard selling. But I enjoyed the practical side of my job and was eager to learn new skills. So, that's what I did. Constantly upskilled. Some was covered/taught by work, some I had to cover myself.

It sucked not having a proper guaranteed contract, being messed around with hours, **** money, but I still enjoyed the work, and I built up a client base from home too, which kept me busy.

After 4/5 years it changed for the better, I was offered a decent job with much better pay, built my skills up a lot, was getting recognition in "best of" awards and doing quite well.

Now I work for myself, and earn more than I would with my actual real degree that people thought I was mad throwing it away for my second choice. Thing is, the first degree may be more professional but I wouldn't have loved it as much as what I'm doing now, and wouldn't get the same opportunities with it.

So, I wouldn't be so quick to look down your nose at people on minimum wage. You've no idea where you'll be in ten years.

I didn't once look down on people on minimum wage. I asked how do they survive on that money.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Hollister11 wrote: »

I didn't once look down on people on minimum wage. I asked how do they survive on that money.

You're surviving on a lot less, no?

Jack the Stripper

I know a lot of people that have started blogging and getting free stuff which supplements their income.

Arcade_Tryer

LexieOnRale wrote: »

You're surviving on a lot less, no?

Very easy to survive on very little when you're expected future income is very high comparatively. And you're presumably being supported financially by parents.

MagicHumanDoll

Hollister11 wrote: »

I didn't once look down on people on minimum wage. I asked how do they survive on that money.

They spend less money because they have less money. Surely as a college student you know that?

I'm roommates with a guy who can make a 10er last a week, and still squeeze a pint in somehow. People just make it work.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

I know a lot of people that have started blogging and getting free stuff which supplements their income.

Nice gig if you can get it. Free cars free clothes free trips. Trade your soul

xLisaBx

I'd be very slow to condescend on minimum wage. I'm currently funding my degree from a minimum wage position, no financial help from my parents and I'm also renting. Careful budgeting can be worth more than a higher wage sometimes!

lmimmfn

MagicHumanDoll wrote: »

They spend less money because they have less money. Surely as a college student you know that?

I'm roommates with a guy who can make a 10er last a week, and still squeeze a pint in somehow. People just make it work.

1996 - 12 punt would last me a week, potatoes, baked beans, petit pois, pork chops( yuck can barely eat pork anymore now ), mad cow disease time cheapo mince beef. Not healthy but it did when it had to.
I'm sure its even easier now with cheapo fruit n veg in lidl/aldi and a lot healthier

Used to labour in the UK in the summer to pay for uni and by god did I enjoy it and worked hard cos labouring sucked lol

TallGlass

MagicHumanDoll wrote: »

They spend less money because they have less money. Surely as a college student you know that?

I'm roommates with a guy who can make a 10er last a week, and still squeeze a pint in somehow. People just make it work.

I couldn't make a tenner last an lunch hour where I work, let alone a week.

cefh17

TallGlass wrote: »

I couldn't make a tenner last an lunch hour where I work, let alone a week.

Bring in your own lunches!

MagicHumanDoll

lmimmfn wrote: »

1996 - 12 punt would last me a week, potatoes, baked beans, petit pois, pork chops( yuck can barely eat pork anymore now ), mad cow disease time cheapo mince beef. Not healthy but it did when it had to.
I'm sure its even easier now with cheapo fruit n veg in lidl/aldi and a lot healthier

Year I was born!

Yeah it's a lot easier to eat healthier, with online recipes etc

MagicHumanDoll

TallGlass wrote: »

I couldn't make a tenner last an lunch hour where I work, let alone a week.

You could if you had to, my roommate has no choice some weeks!!

Yourself isit

Lambs liver at 4€ a kg in my local super value.

(I'm not poor but I like offal - not to everyones taste).

lmimmfn

MagicHumanDoll wrote: »

Year I was born!

Yeah it's a lot easier to eat healthier, with online recipes etc

Grrr make me feel old lol, but definitely yes, no excuse nowadays to be eating unhealthy and its damn cheap because with a family I've reverted to my student cheapo but with nowadays healthier shopping

prinzeugen

Elessar wrote: »

I think it's a valid question and I really don't know OP. The amount of people I know just cruising through life on minimum to low wages is frightening. Zero ambition or motivation to better themselves. I know not everyone really knows what they want to do but people need to start getting serious about their future. Some are renting and are at the mercy of the ever increasing rental market, with no prospect of ever owning a home (but most are living at home). These are people in their 30s. What are they going to do as they get older?

Truth is many people just won't be able to buy a home, ever.

Celtic tiger back? You must own a property, You must own a car, etc.

The acquisition of items is not the only way one can better themselves!

lmimmfn

Yourself isit wrote: »

Lambs liver at 4€ a kg in my local super value.

(I'm not poor but I like offal - not to everyones taste).

Love lamb and chicken liver, seriously yummy, and like you said its mega cheap.

dreamers75

5 people where I work on manual labor jobs getting 10 an hour who completed college.

Tbh completing college really just delayed their arrival to 10 an hour jobs.

College to me seems to be something people do because they can, its like school is now longer. Unless you are getting letters after your name you have the same chances as someone who didn't go to college.

lmimmfn

dreamers75 wrote: »

5 people where I work on manual labor jobs getting 10 an hour who completed college.

Tbh completing college really just delayed their arrival to 10 an hour jobs.

College to me seems to be something people do because they can, its like school is now longer. Unless you are getting letters after your name you have the same chances as someone who didn't go to college.

You get letters after your name if you get your course regardless, but only twats like chemists or doctors use them.
There's something wrong with those guys if they have useful degrees and are doing 10euro per hour jobs.