How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

xLisaBx

lmimmfn wrote: »

You get letters after your name if you get your course regardless, but only twats like chemists or doctors use them.
There's something wrong with those guys if they have useful degrees and are doing 10euro per hour jobs.

I think though if you did a highly intnese degree for five years like pharmacy or medicine, you'd have earned the right to use them letters after your name whenever you wanted

TheManthatsDan

Originally Posted by Permabear View Post
It would be an interesting experiment to see how little money you could live on if you tried.

Oh I've pondered this many a time, paying serious attention to special offers in supermarkets...military planning, join a cheap gym for the the shower, charge your phone literally anywhere you get the chance,

Never tried it though...spend 16 euro on pizza sometimes.

A colleague who lives near me recons he spends 40 euro a week on petrol, I cycle...so satisfying.

lmimmfn

xLisaBx wrote: »

I think though if you did a highly intnese degree for five years like pharmacy or medicine, you'd have earned the right to use them letters after your name whenever you wanted

Let me guess, you're in one of the cited industries? :P
I had a highly intensive 4 year course computer science, but I don't use BSc ......ever
Its not a badge, my work shows my ability. Honestly and not trying to be an ass but I think its pompous nonsense, like some sort of advertisement for credulity.

Thelomen Toblackai

dreamers75 wrote: »

5 people where I work on manual labor jobs getting 10 an hour who completed college.

Tbh completing college really just delayed their arrival to 10 an hour jobs.

College to me seems to be something people do because they can, its like school is now longer. Unless you are getting letters after your name you have the same chances as someone who didn't go to college.

You need a relevant degree and you need a decent one. A lot of people seem to just go to college and do anything, scrape through with a bare pass and then act surprised when they end up not being able to use it to get a decent job. Then others who never bothered proclaim it proof degree's and college are useless.

Anyone who studies an in demand discipline, puts in the effort and does well will have plenty of options for well paid employment.

I went from working low skilled, low paid manual labor jobs myself to a well paid position with benefits, pensions etc after 3 years of college. It was like walking out into a different world with the amount of employment options I had.

Hollister11

LexieOnRale wrote: »

You're surviving on a lot less, no?

My parents fund me. That €50 is pocket money I earned from a 5 hour Saturday job.

xLisaBx

lmimmfn wrote: »

Let me guess, you're in one of the cited industries? :P
I had a highly intensive 4 year course computer science, but I don't use BSc ......ever
Its not a badge, my work shows my ability. Honestly and not trying to be an ass but I think its pompous nonsense, like some sort of advertisement for credulity.

No I'm in the Biomedical Science industry. I think the letters are BScBMS but not entirely sure. I might convert to medicine in a few years though because I can't see myself making any money in the medical science sector.
Computer science looks tough alright in college, I think you've earned those letters, go for it

xLisaBx

Hollister11 wrote: »

My parents fund me. That €50 is pocket money I earned from a 5 hour Saturday job.

You could definitely make a living from that. Just get more hours. 8 hours Saturday, 8 hours Sunday and 5 on a Friday night would sum to 210 euro. You could support yourself on that

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Hollister11 wrote: »

My parents fund me. That €50 is pocket money I earned from a 5 hour Saturday job.

it sucks when you join the real world and have to fund yourself no matter how much you earn

Hollister11

xLisaBx wrote: »

You could definitely make a living from that. Just get more hours. 8 hours Saturday, 8 hours Sunday and 5 on a Friday night would sum to 210 euro. You could support yourself on that

There's only Saturday work available. It's also a construction job, which I enjoy.

xLisaBx

Hollister11 wrote: »

There's only Saturday work available. It's also a construction job, which I enjoy.

Ah okay. Well the principal still stands- if you got them hours in a bar or something, you could entirely support yourself

lmimmfn

xLisaBx wrote: »

No I'm in the Biomedical Science industry. I think the letters are BScBMS but not entirely sure. I might convert to medicine in a few years though because I can't see myself making any money in the medical science sector.
Computer science looks tough alright in college, I think you've earned those letters, go for it

Haha, thanks, i like the attitude, but nah never for me, outside of chemists or doctors I wouldn't mind people using it, they just annoy me if I have a degree I don't feel the need to plaster it everywhere, for them its for common people to think they're intelligent.

I honestly would have thought Biomedical Research would have been a good course in Ireland but job wise research jobs in Ireland aren't great compared to the EU in general or the US, so I kinda understand

*EDIT* I will say for me after 20 years I still love driving into work, excited for what I'll do today,
and loving the days work, magic

TheManthatsDan

Hollister11 wrote: »

There's only Saturday work available. It's also a construction job, which I enjoy.

Maybe you like construction...?

Hollister11

TheManthatsDan wrote: »

Maybe you like construction...?

I think I made that clear. I dabble in garden construction on Saturday and during the summer. It's great working in the outdoors.

freshpopcorn

Hollister11 wrote: »

I think I made that clear. I dabble in garden construction on Saturday and during the summer. It's great working in the outdoors.

I thought you worked in a deli counter/shop?

Hollister11

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I thought you worked in a deli counter/shop?

I did.

lmimmfn

Hollister11 wrote: »

I did.

Its all unfolding now lol

freshpopcorn

lmimmfn wrote: »

Its all unfolding now lol

It's funny how he got the job in the deli!

Hollister11 wrote: »

I was ordering a sandwich once, and I'm a vegetarian so I asked her to change gloves, clean knife and surface ect.

She got the bread, first thing she did was put a slice of ham on the bread. She realised what she did, took the ha. Off and used the same gloves and bread that touched ham to make me the sandwich. ****ing scumbag, I ripped through her and the manager. Refused to go back, until I had a job interview there. (Got the job, and the deli worker quit that week) Goodridance. Serves the idiot right.

lmimmfn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's funny how he got the job in the deli!

Management material right there, 80k is doable in 5 years with that attitude.

Hollister11

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's funny how he got the job in the deli!

Really. Dragging a previous post up.

TheManthatsDan

He also loves the outdoors so will rise through the office ranks and pull 80 grand in no time, its also called landscaping not garden construction.

freshpopcorn

Hollister11 wrote: »

Really. Dragging a previous post up.

I just wanted to let people know that your no push over and you'll be on 80k in no time!

Hollister11

TheManthatsDan wrote: »

He also loves the outdoors so will rise through the office ranks and pull 80 grand in no time, its also called landscaping not garden construction.

Shows how little you know.

TheManthatsDan

Degree in horticulture, professional landscaper...wouldn't give you a mop job.

It's hard to describe how pathetic posters are who stalk post history looking for information. They are too dim to understand how people's jobs, situation, outlook, plans etc change over the years and how different the current reality is compared to some random post years back.

freshpopcorn

Lacey Helpful Sifter wrote: »

It's hard to describe how pathetic posters are who stalk post history looking for information. They are too dim to understand how people's jobs, situation, outlook, plans etc change over the years and how different the current reality is compared to some random post years back.

The OP's post I quoted from a previous thread is probably one of the most memorable posts I've read in a long time mainly because of how badly he treated the staff member!(You'd say to yourself, he's one to watch)

lmimmfn

Lacey Helpful Sifter wrote: »

It's hard to describe how pathetic posters are who stalk post history looking for information. They are too dim to understand how people's jobs, situation, outlook, plans etc change over the years and how different the current reality is compared to some random post years back.

its the internet, everyone's history is available.
Its not up to you or I to decide how someone else's circumstances/outlook etc. changes, thats up to the OP to convey.

Its still relevant regardless.

Parapara2017

I'm on about that wage with fluctuating hours, up and down which average to about the equivalent of 40hours pw @ 10ph.

I live at home so theres the answer. But if I didn't and lets say 650 pm in rent, 400pm for car expenses (young driver insurance...) And i dont know how much I'd spend on shopping for just me but I have roughly 550 or so to spend on whatever else.

I work with people who have kids and i think the same. But even still those people still drink, go out, buy wants not needs etc.

And if i didn't have a car theres an extra 400euro pm freed up. Maybe take 100quid off for public transport but walking / cycling is also free.

In 5 years that's equal to what 180k. Lets say you're making 40k average over 5 years after graduating thats 200k or so. But thats 9 years including the 4 years of unpaid study + living expenses etc.

In regards to your 'you need college for a good job, look at Lidl and Aldi. Management there are on 45k-80k (and really are on 80k op ;P) degrees are becoming more and more worthless as years go on. Especially with education costs increasing.

Geuze

Hollister11 wrote: »

Computer Science, I'm specialising in softwared development.

I am aware of people with 10 years experience in software testing earning 28k in Dublin.

These are not programmers.

Geuze

La.de.da wrote: »

Tbh where I live €400-€500 is an average decent wage.

Life ain't all about money.

Average earnings in Ireland are 45k approx for full-time workers, or 870 per week.

400-500 is not "an average decent wage".

skankkuvhima

thierry14 wrote: »

Try 35-45k if your lucky

Senior software engineers are struggling to get 80k with certifications galore

Degree doesn't mean **** in software development

It's all about certification

You'll put the real work in then

I wasn't going to jump in but I feel I have to. Certification means nothing, absolutely nothing. The only thing that counts in software development is experience.

Person A) Experience in technology X
Person Cert in technology X

Person A gets hired everytime.

I see certification trotted out on other forums too. That and for some bizarre reason having a github account and a load of side projects. Nonsense!

mrsmags16

I have a cousin who is on state benefits with his wife (he was working but lost his unskilled job unfortunately) they live down the country with 2 kids, rent a house for next to nothing, happy as Larry but with no holidays or savings or treats really. He mentioned once they spend 40 quid a week on the grocery shop. I live in a city with my husband, we both earn fairly good money, have a mortgage on a house in the city centre, pension funds, savings, 2 nice holidays a year, kid number 1 en route and will be tough to manage to pay for creche when I go back to work - their kids have the luxury of their parents bringing them up - ours won't. With our outgoings we definitely couldn't afford more than 2 kids. So yeah, I found myself thinking the same thing as OP about my cousin recently but you know what? They are super happy, kids well looked after, I think while they would love a bit of a treat like a sun holiday sometime the more important things to them are health and happiness. We think the same. So there is no need for pity or envy really on either side.

As an aside - my brother is an app developer (or something) and started on 60k. Dunno anything about projected income but two firms offered him that.

Sam Kade

happywithlife wrote: »

My husband hated school and ended up working in the job he started in at 14 years of age
Rock on 20 years he's still there and yet to hit ?10 an hour. It's absolute crap. But he is so slow to change. He pulls in a decent enough wage when busy as he also gets some piecemeal pay on top of his Base wage. But it's very long hours. It was okay when it was just the two of us but realistically now with 3 kids he just about breaks even after paying for childcare but he'd rather be working which is fine. It's heartbreaking that his wage is so low though and he has been talking lots recently of leaving but with no qualifications he's loath to leave and I think he'd rather the devil he knows than the unknown

Your username doesn't match your post What does he do? My guess is working with a farmer or farm contractor.

cantdecide

I never made an effort in school and never studied. In hindsight, I should have taken a trade. I always worked hard and always mastered and progressed in every job I had. I used to work in a purchasing offices and various supply chain jobs in construction supply businesses and warehousing. When construction went for a crap, all my experience and product knowledge counted for nothing. I left Ireland and had an accident that had me back home unexpectedly and recovering for almost a year.

I work for E19,500 in a contact centre doing the job of a civil serveant. What I do is very complex and involves having huge knowledge regarding current legislation and familiarity with vast amounts of historical practices. I mastered the job but the industry and the particular company are notorious. Yay outsourcing.

I'm a single guy in my thirties. I'm a few weeks away from taking my 3rd year exams in a 4yr part-time degree in supply chain. I hope to earn enough money in the future to live independently because once I take home my pitiful wages and save for my course fees, I have enough money to hand up to my parents (yes, I live at home), cover my bills and pay for my car (which mainly exists to get me to work as there's no viable public transport).

If I gave up all ambition and stayed at home watching telly and not studying, I would be E50/ week worse off than I am while working and studying (and having no life).

Minimum wage is misery- a poverty trap. No one can live independently on it. There are people who work with me who are using the wage to supplement a pension. More of them have a partner with a better job. Many of the single ones are living at home with a lone parent. More again are foreign who are marginally better off than being at home but I know will struggle to build a life here.

Zascar

mrsmags16 wrote: »

I have a cousin who is on state benefits with his wife, they live down the country

This makes all the difference. You can rent a decent house for a few hundred quid in certain parts of the country. Come to Dublin and in some areas you can barely get a one bed for less than €1200.

Yourself isit

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wasn't going to jump in but I feel I have to. Certification means nothing, absolutely nothing. The only thing that counts in software development is experience.

Person A) Experience in technology X
Person Cert in technology X

Person A gets hired everytime.

I see certification trotted out on other forums too. That and for some bizarre reason having a github account and a load of side projects. Nonsense!

The guthub stuff does matter in certain circumstances.

PMBC

snowflaker wrote: »

I graduated 10 years ago

I am not on €800 a week

That seems more like it. Highly experienced technical grads would expect 80k after 20 or 30 years in Ireland.

Zascar

I think what OP means is that the vesy best developers can make 80k in 5 years. I can happen - it's just the vast minority.

georgiecasey

georgiecasey wrote: »

i hate this attitude. college isn't for everyone and you're not guaranteed a good job afterwards at all these days. everyone has a degree now.

All the education and letters after your name are worthless if you are not willing to work. Those working in Supermarkets are showing prospective employers that they have the work ethic. That is priceless.

Jack the Stripper

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Nice gig if you can get it. Free cars free clothes free trips. Trade your soul

It would beat prostitution.

skankkuvhima

Just for any nosy people. I graduated 10 years ago.

Graduation : €28k + bonuses + health care for family.
5 Years : €45k + health care for me
10 years : €68k + bonuses + health care for family

So after 10 years ~€70k is pretty achievable. I imagine I'd be earning more in Dublin

Django99

People seem to forget that the majority of people do not live in Dublin or Cork. Rent can be as low as 50 per week if sharing a flat in a mid sized town in Ireland.

Food expenses from person to person range hugely, but you could have a balanced diet for about 40 per week. Necessary bills like heat and electricity in a flatshare might be 15 per week per person. Things like phone bills, TV bills and such can be avoided or minimal by getting cheap one off packages e.g. Android box for TV.

You might not need a car but even if you do, it could be ran on maybe 70 per week including all costs if it's a cheap car with little maintenance costs.

Fixed expenses can definitely be kept to around 200 a week, leaving 150 disposable for anyone on minimum wage. 50 in savings and then maybe 100 on a night out and a couple of takeaways at the weekend. Saving 50 a week is 2600 per year which can be used for the likes of Christmas, a cheap package holiday, or a down payment on a new car or whatever.

People who are on low wages can be quite frugal as well, using coupons or special offers or whatever to make every euro go further. They might supplement their income too, whether it be through tips in the service industry, commissions or bonuses in sales, nixers in trade or manual labour jobs.

The people working on these wages also contain a few categories. Students who are also funded by parents or student loans and grants. People returning to work who have maybe taken a few years out to raise children who may have a partner on a high income. And in a lot of these positions it's easy enough to get promoted to assistant manager or manager or a higher paid position quite quickly. In some retail jobs the wages increase every couple of years regardless.

witchgirl26

OP I'm 7 years qualified in a professional capacity (10 since my degree) and I'm not on €80k yet and won't be for a while. Granted different field but I know people in the field you're aiming for and they're not there yet either and a bit off it. You'd have to be a complete whizzkid. There were figures like that bandied about for my profession when I was graduating but I don't recall anyone really getting them within the magical 5 years.

As for surviving on minimum wage or close to. Myself and my partner have really good salaries that we're grateful for but and we have holidays etc. I've friends and relations on a hell of lot less and close to the min wage and they seem just as happy as us. No they don't have as much stuff in their lives but stuff is just that. It doesn't measure happiness. Also a lot of them are a hell of a lot better at saving. You learn to live within your means when you earn less and to figure out what is actually important rather than what seems to be important.

Elessar

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wasn't going to jump in but I feel I have to. Certification means nothing, absolutely nothing. The only thing that counts in software development is experience.

Person A) Experience in technology X
Person Cert in technology X

Person A gets hired everytime.

I see certification trotted out on other forums too. That and for some bizarre reason having a github account and a load of side projects. Nonsense!

Absolutely +1 couldn't agree more. It's all about experience. Though I would say having projects on Github and the like would help when you're starting out.

Also regarding the €80k+ salary in 'IT' after a few years, it's not impossible. Especially if you have experience in niche or in-demand tech.

I know quite a few people who make that and more as developers. Some of them are contractors - one guy is 32 and 4 years after he finished his college degree he was contracting on €550/day (thats €130k/year). That was a few years ago - he's on more now (albeit abroad).

Another guy same tech stack was contracting with us on ~€80k equivalent. Was offered the same to go permanent, he declined (again a young guy, early 30s).

Another friend who is a DBA with 5 years experience landed here with his fiancé a few years ago from eastern europe. First job he was on €65k - 18 months later he moved to a new job on €80k. He has just been head hunted into a senior DBA role with a financial firm on > €100k and all the benefits. He's 34.

So, it's doable. You just need to be good, and have the experience. Problem is, most Irish firms just don't want to pay > €65k for any non-managerial IT role.

ILikeBoats

In my opinion, climbing the ranks to get a salary of 80k after 5 years doesn't necessarily all rely on how good you are at programming/development. You could be the best in the world but it doesn't mean people will like you. You'd need to show certain social and, maybe, leadership skills, People would need to get on with you, you'd need to fit well with the leadership team etc.

I know in some cases and for some companies, it wouldn't matter, they just want outputs, but for every company I've worked for - it goes a long way.
People are identified as high potential/high performance within weeks of starting with a company and they seen as preferred candidates for promotions and projects, they generally get on well with everyone, are well liked and they are the folks on the big bucks.

In response to OP, I have also wondered how people get by on minimum wage but I suspect there are governmental helping hands in many cases.

peteeeed

is this a humblebrag thread?

Django99

A lot of the discussion has turned to what people in IT earn, and because this is generally a high paying job it raises interesting points I think.

For those earning big, say more than 50k a year, they will generally live in a city centre with high rent or a high mortgage. This is the cost of accommodation, which is far less for most people in this country. It's not comparable for someone earning 50k per year, living in the most expensive part of the country, to someone earning minimum wage living in the least expensive parts.

The same can be applied to cars. Someone on a high salary will probably spend a good chunk of it on their car, whether it be buying brand new cars every couple of years or maybe having high spec cars. Either way, this is a huge expense people on minimum wage don't have.

People on high salarys save more money too. They have better security for sure, but security doesn't mean much to a minimum wage worker. If they lose their job and have to go on the dole it's not a huge step down in income. But going from 50k year to the dole would be extremely difficult, hence the need for a larger amount of savings.

So for someone on a high salary it's difficult to imagine only earning minimum wage, but if you cut back unnecessary expenses a person in Ireland does not need that much more than minimum wage to live a happy, healthy life.

Zascar

From: https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2016/brightwater-salary-survey-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

givyjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

All the education and letters after your name are worthless if you are not willing to work. Those working in Supermarkets are showing prospective employers that they have the work ethic. That is priceless.

Actually, its worth about 9.25 an hour or thereabouts.. priceless is a stretch.

myshirt

I studied Law.

I understood that 80% of the job would be batting off the women and driving nice cars. Is this not correct?

Sofiztikated

I'd nearly bet the house that Hollister11 is funded by the Bank of Mum and Dad, and has never had to work.

There's 2 people in this house, myself and my wife, and our largest combined wage has been 37/38k.

With that, we have:
Gotten married, with 130 guests.
Had a car each. Currently 1, as 2 aren't needed.
Bought a house, currently 6 years into a 30 year mortgage.
Recently back from a 3 month trip around Europe.
No massive debt, mortgage not included.

My college experience consists of a Certificate. My wife has a degree in one field, and a diploma in another, and until recently, I was the higher earner of the 2 of us.

It's not always easy, but we've done it. A touch of hard work might go towards knocking the nose of yours out of the sky, and your head out of your arse.

(And take ownership of your mistakes, grammar and spelling, your phone has a full keyboard, just like everyone else using their phone. Don't blame laziness and oversight on the tools, you're the one pushing the buttons. And you might want to make sure you are pushing the right buttons, or you're going to spend even more hours debugging code.)