RECI Cert For Replacing An Electric Shower

2011

MrMac84 wrote: »

So the CER emailed to tell you plumbers cannot REPLACE electric showers?

Exactly.
That aligns with what I was told by CER when I rang them, see post #49.

Sleeper12

Samir Ancient Blueberry wrote:

So the CER emailed to tell you plumbers cannot REPLACE electric showers?

Yes and no. They emailed me saying only REC can replace electric showers. I'm waiting for more information about how triton and mira can replace showers under warranty without a REC. But this is the law yes

Risteard81

Phil.x wrote: »

2011 wrote: »

I could not find anything to support this, so I rang CER this morning.
To my surprise you are correct because a bathroom is a "special location".
Other special locations include saunas, milking parlours and swimming pools. Only a REC may electrically connect a shower, light, fan or any other electrical appliance in a bathroom. The circuit supplying this device must then be retested.

So apologies EHP, you have highlighted something important. I will amend the forum charter to reflect this.

Could a non rec sparks do this work and pay a rec sparks to cert it?

Absolutely not.

hufpc8w3adnk65

2011 wrote: »

Exactly.
That aligns with what I was told by CER when I rang them, see post #49.

Heard they were coming down on this very toughly.. going to be hard for plumbers who's main work is showers

Risteard81

MrMac84 wrote: »

2011 wrote: »

Exactly.
That aligns with what I was told by CER when I rang them, see post #49.

Heard they were coming down on this very toughly.. going to be hard for plumbers who's main work is showers

I think it's no bad thing - how often have you come across an electric shower appalingly connected by a plumber and often with burnt cables?

Risteard81

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Maybe some RECI guys can correct me but I am under the impression that it's RECI inspectors that do not the road show.

There are certainly RECI Inspectors present at the RECI roadshows, along with other senior RECI personnel.

Sleeper12

Samir Ancient Blueberry wrote:

Heard they were coming down on this very toughly.. going to be hard for plumbers who's main work is showers

Risteard81 wrote:

I think it's no bad thing - how often have you come across an electric shower appalingly connected by a plumber and often with burnt cables?

I agree that it's not a bad thing though it's going to hurt me a lot. But I've seen bad showers installed by electricians too. A lot of my work is from RECs who believe my work is better that theirs or my knowledge is better than theirs on this particular job

EHP

Risteard81 wrote: »

There are certainly RECI Inspectors present at the RECI roadshows, along with other senior RECI personnel.

As far as I know RECI is Safe Electric and the RECI brand will be phased out. The Road shows are all RECI inspectors and there upper management.

Sleeper12

EHP wrote:

As far as I know RECI is Safe Electric and the RECI brand will be phased out. The Road shows are all RECI inspectors and there upper management.

+1 as far as the consumer is concerned they will be dealing with safe electric rather than RECI. safe electric is softer sounding for OAPs

deandean

How does a plumber become a regstered Electrical Contractor? does he have to start again and do a 4 year electrical apprenticeship?

EHP

deandean wrote: »

How does a plumber become a regstered Electrical Contractor? does he have to start again and do a 4 year electrical apprenticeship?

I would assume you would have to complete the 4 year apprenticeship, I don't know of any other way currently.

Sleeper12

EHP wrote: »

I would assume you would have to complete the 4 year apprenticeship, I don't know of any other way currently.

We'll be pushing for installers to have the option to be trained up just to work on showers. They have something like it in the UK. They do a fairly tough course & are tested on everything needed to test & cert the shower.
I'm not familiar with the course but it would be tough possibly running for months. At the end of the day you can train a monkey to test a shower ( not slagging off anyone here). The actual physical act of testing I could learn in minutes I've no doubt but obviously its much deeper than that. You need to understand everything about it. Learn how electricity works etc.

Anyway this is what the industry will be pushing for. If it comes it will be years away I've no doubt. In the meantime I'll have to employ a REC to sit in the van with me each day to cert the showers

EHP

Sleeper12 wrote: »

We'll be pushing for installers to have the option to be trained up just to work on showers. They have something like it in the UK. They do a fairly tough course & are tested on everything needed to test & cert the shower.
I'm not familiar with the course but it would be tough possibly running for months. At the end of the day you can train a monkey to test a shower ( not slagging off anyone here). The actual physical act of testing I could learn in minutes I've no doubt but obviously its much deeper than that. You need to understand everything about it. Learn how electricity works etc.

Anyway this is what the industry will be pushing for. If it comes it will be years away I've no doubt. In the meantime I'll have to employ a REC to sit in the van with me each day to cert the showers

When a REC works on your shower he/she has to confirm/test the following.

. The incoming cable from your ESB meter is the correct size and your house is neutralized.

. All required earthing and bonding is in place.

. Loop impedance test on the main incoming supply and from the shower

. The correct size cable is in place for your shower, most electric showers now require a larger cable than showers did in the past, so even if replacing a shower the cable may have to be changed.

. Your shower has a dedicated RCD (THIS IS A LIFE SAVING DEVICE) and he/she will test this to confirm its functioning correctly, this means that should your shower have a fault it will trip within the required time and not affect other parts of your installation. Your shower cannot share an RCD with your sockets etc.

. The REC also has to complete checks on your existing installation such as check all the connections on your fuse board, complete 7 different tests on any RCD within your board and an insulation resistance test on your complete Electrical Installation.

Sleeper12

EHP wrote: »

When a REC works on your shower he/she has to confirm/test the following.

. The incoming cable from your ESB meter is the correct size and your house is neutralized.

. All required earthing and bonding is in place.

. The correct size cable is in place for your shower, most electric showers now require a larger cable than showers did in the past, so even if replacing a shower the cable may have to be changed.

. Your shower has a dedicated RCD (THIS IS A LIFE SAVING DEVICE) and he/she will test this to confirm its functioning correctly, this means that should your shower have a fault it will trip within the required time and not affect other parts of your installation. Your shower cannot share an RCD with your sockets etc.

. The REC also has to complete checks on your existing installation such as check all the connections on your fuse board, complete 7 different tests on any RCD within your board and an insulation resistance test on your complete Electrical Installation.

I am aware of all the REC has to do. I was saying I can learn how to do all that in hours but that wouldn't make me safe if I didn't understand what I'm actually testing. I was trying to say that if they eventually let us up-skill for this that it would be tough & not as simple as just the act of testing.

I've come a long way in the last few weeks. I didn't believe I couldn't replace showers. Then I thought it very unfair. Now my stance is that it is the right way forward but I'd like a chance to up-skill. The RECs have their work cut out for them because Ive seen some shocking things. I've posted photos of 2.5 twin & earth on a 9KW mira elite with no RCD protection. So the REC quotes lets say 380 supplied & fitted for a replacement shower. Now it's a full shower rewire job with RCBO. Price is now 600/700/800.

Yesterday I found 2 elements on an immersion wired to a single switch. I was turning water off to repair a shower. I didn't even check but you can be sure that the shower has no RCD. My money is someone took a spur off a light. I left & said I wouldn't do any work till I saw a current RECI cert.
I would walk away from at least two showers per week. So I'm fully behind RECs sorting this mess out. It's going to take a good 20 years unless CER brings in compulsory testing in private homes every 5 years or so. Something like you'd have for rented

2011

There is no rocket science here, I don't think it would be very hard to train a plumber to do this.
However my personal view is that electricians should be left to do the electrical work and plumbers should do the plumbing, end of.
It may cost the end user a bit more, but they just need to get over this. Showers are rarely installed / replaced or in the bigger picture it doesn't cost much extra.

I can understand why CER insist on RECs doing this work. As they said to me on the phone, when it comes to electricity "the bathroom is a dangerous place". What I struggle with is that once a REC installs a spur outlet pretty much anyone can feed an unlimited amount of kit from it and there is no requirement to test any of it. So a properly installed and certified spur could feed a boiler, two circulation pumps, multiple zone valves and stats...and all of this at mains voltage. Does electricity suddenly become "safe" when it passes through a spur outlet? Is it just me or is this an inconsistent approach?

Background: Here is an email exchange that Had with CER a few years ago.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

So a properly installed and certified spur could feed a boiler, two circulation pumps, multiple zone valves and stats...and all of this at mains voltage. Does electricity suddenly become "safe" when it passes through a spur outlet? Is it just me or is this an inconsistent approach?

It is safer for a registered plumber to wire an entire heating control circuit, than it is for an unregistered electrician to add 2 sockets in his own house, at least for the state anyway.

Stoner

2011 wrote:

There is no rocket science here, I don't think it would be very hard to train a plumber to do this. However my personal view is that electricians should be left to do the electrical work and plumbers should do the plumbing, end of. It may cost the end user a bit more, but they just need to get over this. Showers are rarely installed / replaced or in the bigger picture it doesn't cost much extra.

I agree, had an interesting look into this from an FM case study from some maintenance staff in Scotland.

They'd train a person up on some different skills they went as far as two additional trade skills.

If the tradesperson completed the training, they added an extra percentage to their rate,
It's a good idea imo

Teaching Carpenter some plastering skills is great if the one person can complete a job.

But there's a limit to it too and something like this is at it.

Tim76

Bit late to this thread and from what I can see there doesn't seem to be any general consensus as to whether a RECI cert is needed for a replacement shower or not. Can anyone advise further??

I had an electrician (who i was assured was registered by a friend) replace a shower today and then take off without giving the missus a receipt or any cert for the works. I'm chasing him down for the receipt but i'm just wondering do i need to get a RECI cert as well?

EHP

Tim76 wrote: »

Bit late to this thread and from what I can see there doesn't seem to be any general consensus as to whether a RECI cert is needed for a replacement shower or not. Can anyone advise further??

I had an electrician (who i was assured was registered by a friend) replace a shower today and then take off without giving the missus a receipt or any cert for the works. I'm chasing him down for the receipt but i'm just wondering do i need to get a RECI cert as well?

If the shower was replaced you 100% should have received a cert from the electrician, if he is registered and you have his name and details you can contact Safe Electric directly to report him. It is a legal requirement to certify all electrical works within bathroom zones this is fact and there should be no confusion or doubt about it.