Elderly man gets his shotgun back.

Cass

Some common sense and good approach to the whole thing.

viper123

A great read and nice to see common sense used from start to finish of process.

gunny123

“Yes, I was frightened, he had a slash hook. I shot into the air,” said the man, who re-enacted the action he took by lifting his walking stick from his side and pointing it towards the ceiling.

A slash hook ? That'll be a certain ethnic minority that the champagne socialist love to bleat on about so.

Vizzy

Great to see that common sense prevailed here.

I have been saying it for years though, that given the amount of attacks/burglaries on the elderly, the wrong "type of person" is going to go into the wrong yard some night, and that there wont be a happy outcome.
I know of an elderly couple who would be very similar to this man ( i.e. very, very independent) who are terrified once darkness falls, but there is not a snowballs chance in hell that they will move from their house to a less secluded location.

pilly

Vizzy wrote: »

Great to see that common sense prevailed here.

I have been saying it for years though, that given the amount of attacks/burglaries on the elderly, the wrong "type of person" is going to go into the wrong yard some night, and that there wont be a happy outcome.
I know of an elderly couple who would be very similar to this man ( i.e. very, very independent) who are terrified once darkness falls, but there is not a snowballs chance in hell that they will move from their house to a less secluded location.

I've never understood the concept of living in fear that something might happen but then I've not reached the elderly stage yet. I suppose as you get older you feel more vunreable.

I live quite close to where this man does and apparently he had been robbed a couple of times so that gives him reason to be fearful.

The general consensus around here though is that now they won't go back.

Grizzly 45

Typical tho, revoke the license and confiscate the gun...And then come up with a load of Whatifery...[What if the neighbours or postman came up and was shot?:rolleyes: in court to try and deny it to him,....Absolute disgrace that this old gent even had to go to court to get his license. I wonder what the Supers excuse would have been if this ol guy had been attacked again while he confiscated his firearm to prevent mass carnage in county Limerick?? Best to shoot,shovel, and shut up it seems.

Gravelly

pilly wrote: »

I've never understood the concept of living in fear that something might happen but then I've not reached the elderly stage yet. I suppose as you get older you feel more vunreable.

I live quite close to where this man does and apparently he had been robbed a couple of times so that gives him reason to be fearful.

The general consensus around here though is that now they won't go back.

Damn right they won't - our slashhook wielding ethnic minority only do confrontation when it is 3 or 4 of them versus a vulnerable elderly person or couple - once lead starts flying you can be sure they'll pile into the Avensis and head for the hills, never to be seen again. Cowards don't like it when there's a chance they might get some of their own medicine.

Vizzy

pilly wrote: »

I've never understood the concept of living in fear that something might happen but then I've not reached the elderly stage yet. I suppose as you get older you feel more vunreable.

I live quite close to where this man does and apparently he had been robbed a couple of times so that gives him reason to be fearful.

The general consensus around here though is that now they won't go back.

That is the very reason that the couple I referred to above are fearful too.
They have been broken into at least twice that I know of, but thankfully they weren't there on either occasion. The house has been wrecked and they are terrified that the next time these people arrive that they(the couple) will be there and will come to harm.

useurowname

Not sure shooting people should get too caught up in this thread. Guns are kept for sport in this country right?

pilly

useurowname wrote:

Not sure shooting people should get too caught up in this thread. Guns are kept for sport in this country right?

Who mentioned shooting people?

Cass

useurowname wrote: »

Not sure shooting people should get too caught up in this thread. Guns are kept for sport in this country right?

This is not a RKBA thread, and that topic is prohibited as it's illegal.

It is however an example of how the law prevailed and a man, that exercised his rights under the Criminal Law (Defence and Dwellings) Act 2011, was exonerated from any wrong doing by the court after being, for want of a better term, vilified for exercising said rights.

Grolschevik

pilly wrote:

Who mentioned shooting people?

Post 6. The phrase "shoot, shovel and shut up", although not a phrase I've heard before would seem to imply, "shoot, bury, deny"?

Cass

While not the words i would use, i would read it more as a scathing indictment of how our criminal justice system works.

Reminds me of a case in the UK where a man turned in a firearm to the police that was thrown into his back garden. The police arrested him and charged him with possession of an unlicensed firearm.

Here is an elderly man, on his own, isolated for want of a better term, and while we don't know what was or is being done to catch the scum that tried to break into his home he was immediately targeted by the authorities and had his firearm confiscated and license revoked.

Grizzly 45

It means
If you dont want to lose your firearms cert in a perfectly justified self defence situation as was in that ol guys situation.Depending on the situation..As in this case...You would be better off just fixing the bullet holes and any other damage and saying nothing about it and continuing your life.Maybe just clean the gun as well to be safe.
Involve LE they must confiscate the gun as evidence of a crime being possibly comitted.In Ireland that means ALL your liscensed guns.So where does that leave you if said ethnic minority decide to come back a couple of nights later for a rematch??The sickner is this should have NEVER had to have gone to court as the Super should have never revoked his liscense in the first place and left that old guy defenceless for at least 3 months since this happened.Should have handed him back the gun within a week as it wasnt used in any other crimes.But no he had to make a legal issue if it.With a load of whatif ery that really makes him look like a fool in court. (Bit of a difference between said minority and the flippin postman.).Keep saying this all the time.Using a firearm in SD here is a whole different ball of wax than sport shooting and something you need to think thru long before you hear a thud downstairs at 3am.

tac foley

A British story with similar results...

Two burglars who were shot by a homeowner during a break-in at his farm in Leicestershire have been jailed.

Joshua O'Gorman, 27, and Daniel Mansell, 33, were fired at with a shotgun by Andy Ferrie during a raid at his cottage in Welby on 2 September.

Mr Ferrie and his wife were arrested over the shooting, but later released without charge.
The two men, from Leicester, admitted burglary and were jailed for four years at Leicester Crown Court.

Prosecutor Alan Murphy told the court Andy and Tracey Ferrie had gone to bed on the evening of 1 September and were woken hours later by banging and the sound of breaking glass.

He said: "They investigated. They went from their bedroom, downstairs, and on their way down Mrs Ferrie took hold of the couple's lawfully held shotgun and gave it to Mr Ferrie.
"They went downstairs and described seeing three males in the hall or kitchen area wearing some kind of face covering.

"One of the males, suspected to be Mr O'Gorman, was about to reach into a drawer in the kitchen which, they were aware but he probably was not, held a number of knives, as can be expected in a kitchen.

"As a result of that, Mr Ferrie fired his shotgun. Mr O'Gorman was hit in his face, Mr Mansell in his hand.

"The burglars fled without actually being able to steal anything."

Mr Ferrie called police to the farm and when they arrived he informed them he had shot at the group.

The couple were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm, but were released from bail after the CPS said it was satisfied they had acted in reasonable self-defence.

Shooting 'not mitigation'
Mansell and O'Gorman were arrested at Leicester Royal Infirmary shortly after the shooting.

Judge Michael Pert QC told the pair: "I make it plain that, in my judgment, being shot is not mitigation. "If you burgle a house in the country where the householder owns a legally held shotgun, that is the chance you take. "You cannot come to court and ask for a lighter sentence because of it."

The prosecution told the court Mansell was released from prison last May after serving part of a six-year sentence for wounding with intent.

In total, his criminal record consisted of eight previous convictions involving 19 offences.
O'Gorman had 16 previous convictions, involving 27 offences, many for dishonesty and driving offences.

Both of these men were well-known members of a certain travelling community.

tac

minktrapper

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It means
If you dont want to lose your firearms cert in a perfectly justified self defence situation as was in that ol guys situation.Depending on the situation..As in this case...You would be better off just fixing the bullet holes and any other damage and saying nothing about it and continuing your life.Maybe just clean the gun as well to be safe.
Involve LE they must confiscate the gun as evidence of a crime being possibly comitted.In Ireland that means ALL your liscensed guns.So where does that leave you if said ethnic minority decide to come back a couple of nights later for a rematch??The sickner is this should have NEVER had to have gone to court as the Super should have never revoked his liscense in the first place and left that old guy defenceless for at least 3 months since this happened.Should have handed him back the gun within a week as it wasnt used in any other crimes.But no he had to make a legal issue if it.With a load of whatif ery that really makes him look like a fool in court. (Bit of a difference between said minority and the flippin postman.).Keep saying this all the time.Using a firearm in SD here is a whole different ball of wax than sport shooting and something you need to think thru long before you hear a thud downstairs at 3am.

What is the difference between using a firearm for self-defense as opposed to using a four pronged fork/hurley.

gunny123

I would think because you are only permitted to hold a firearm for sporting purposes. In fairness if you ever been in the position of being in fear of your life or wellbeing, being worried about the risk of prosecution under the firearms act comes way way down the list of priorities.

minktrapper

gunny123 wrote: »

I would think because you are only permitted to hold a firearm for sporting purposes. In fairness if you ever been in the position of being in fear of your life or wellbeing, being worried about the risk of prosecution under the firearms act comes way way down the list of priorities.

Most people only use hurleys for sporting purposes too. Four pronged forks are used mostly for forking silage or dung.Knives are used mostly for cutting up your dinner.

pablo128

minktrapper wrote: »

What is the difference between using a firearm for self-defense as opposed to using a four pronged fork/hurley.

Well picture an elderly gentleman half asleep halfway down the stairs with a hurl vs 3 roving gentlemen of the road.

Now picture the same elderly gentleman holding a 12 gauge. It evens things up somewhat.

gunny123

minktrapper wrote: »

Most people only use hurleys for sporting purposes too. Four pronged forks are used mostly for forking silage or dung.Knives are used mostly for cutting up your dinner.

You don't need a licence for a fork, or a hurley, you did need a licence for a sword under british rule, but as far as i know not for a knife.

The super signs off your cert for sporting purposes, target or game, not for self defence. Some people here did have firearms for self defence, Don Tidy i think and Ben Dunne, i knew the dealer that brought in Dunnes revolver, it was the first handgun i ever handled. I do not know what is involved in obtaining a licence to hold a pistol for self defence, a genuine threat against your life and knowing the great and the good would be involved i should imagine.

minktrapper

pablo128 wrote: »

Well picture an elderly gentleman half asleep halfway down the stairs with a hurl vs 3 roving gentlemen of the road.

Now picture the same elderly gentleman holding a 12 gauge. It evens things up somewhat.

I love equality.

idnkph

I wonder how it came to be taken from him? Said nothing in the story about that.
Was it that he reported the situation to the gardai and they took it from him or was it the poor unfortunate slash hook wielding member of a minority group that sorted him?
Did the poor gypo get caught?

gunny123

idnkph wrote: »

Did the poor gypo get caught?

Probably given a very stiff caution or suspended sentence, knowing the irish legal system.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

You don't need a licence for a fork, or a hurley, you did need a licence for a sword under british rule, but as far as i know not for a knife.

The super signs off your cert for sporting purposes, target or game, not for self defence. Some people here did have firearms for self defence, Don Tidy i think and Ben Dunne, i knew the dealer that brought in Dunnes revolver, it was the first handgun i ever handled. I do not know what is involved in obtaining a licence to hold a pistol for self defence, a genuine threat against your life and knowing the great and the good would be involved i should imagine.

And the irony is an hours drive up the road in the six counties you can get a CCWP for just about any good reason from the Chief constable.Apparently there isn't a massive black art to it either. Having a "significant other" in the security forces has been good enough cause in some case.

Down here it is actually at as far as I can assertain,at the discretion of the Chief superintendent or assistant commissioner. I know of one peace commissioner who can carry and has done so since the 1980s. Dunno what the criteria is,but it seems to be unless you are political and have an imminent threat to your life or have "pull" you are on your own. I wonder if you drew a few cartoons and claimed it is the god of the terminally offended bearded and sword waving ones,would you get one then??:)

Grizzly 45

idnkph wrote: »

I wonder how it came to be taken from him? Said nothing in the story about that.
Was it that he reported the situation to the gardai and they took it from him or was it the poor unfortunate slash hook wielding member of a minority group that sorted him?
Did the poor gypo get caught?

SOP with all LE worldwide when a firearm is used in a shooting incident to seize it as prime evidence.Even if it was a personal firearm of a police officer.All well and good,except here,if you only used one gun,they take the whole lot as "evidence" if you have more than one gun.
What galls is simply this is a clear case of "castle doctrine" and should have been treated as such.It's rather stupid to have a castle doctrine and then deny you legally the swords,armour ,the possibility to train in sword fighting,and boiling tar to defend it properly.:rolleyes:

Zxthinger

What would happen him if he repeated the exact same actions again... I can't help feeling that things might be different if he was there in court for a second time.

He must have reported it himself- I can't see any robbers ring in an iffy firearms discharge. Lol

gunny123

Zxthinger wrote: »

What would happen him if he repeated the exact same actions again... I can't help feeling that things might be different if he was there in court for a second time.

He must have reported it himself- I can't see any robbers ring in an iffy firearms discharge. Lol

Can't you see the public outrage towards the gardai/doj/courts, not to mention towards the local tds and government if an old boy of 93 was locked up for defending his own property ? He didn't go out looking for trouble, it arrived on his doorstep, literally. What was he supposed to do ? Go out and exchange blows man to man.

Also whats the odds the local gardai station was closed due to cutbacks ? Even if it wasn't chances are the number of gardai in it were drastically reduced.

useurowname

Here's more of it ..http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-life/exclusive-majority-of-farmers-with-guns-would-shoot-when-faced-with-intruder-on-their-property-35644850.html

tac foley

useurowname wrote: »

Here's more of it ..http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-life/exclusive-majority-of-farmers-with-guns-would-shoot-when-faced-with-intruder-on-their-property-35644850.html

Good luck with that. The person in the picture is actually holding a Daisy BB gun, just like the one I've had since age seven.

I can truthfully advise anybody that it might, if it hits nekkid flesh, that BB will raise a wheal, but it soon wears off.

tac

Grizzly 45

Guess there were no other press stock pictures cheap enough for Mr O Briens newspaper to use then?:rolleyes:

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

Good luck with that. The person in the picture is actually holding a Daisy BB gun,

Makes a change from the usual AK, AT-4, or Challenger tank they normally use. :rolleyes: