Echo chambers of hate in After Hours.

pilly

The Fake Sheikh wrote:

The big problem for me is that people find something like this "proper hateful"

That's because it's full of hatred. Disgusting post.

SterlingArcher

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Although I do admire how you skipped my second example to focus solely on the one related to Muslims. It's like an obsession.

Your last line is interesting. You might be projecting.

Will I Am Not

pilly wrote: »

That's because it's full of hatred. Disgusting post.

In your opinion and to your seemingly oversensitive standards.

"Proper hateful" would be seeking out her relatives and telling them in horrible terms, not mentioning it on an Irish message board.

It's like everything else nowadays. People will find, even look for something to be outraged about in pretty much everything.

It's all about pointscoring, getting one over on the other side. Actual debate is on the verge of extinction.

Boggles

Trying to score "cheap points" off someone being brutally murdered is scummery of the highest order.

Just slightly behind trying to justify it with abject stupidity.

gandalf

I really laugh at the Irish here labelling a whole group of people because of the actions of a few religious extremists. The vast majority are like us, they love their families and they want to get on with their lives where ever that may be.

Growing up in the 1970's and 80's we Irish were the ones vilified because of the actions of a minority of extremists. I remember the headlines in the British Tabloid press about the Irish after bombings, it mirrors very closely the language used about the Muslim community today in the same ragtops.

I don't believe that critical discussion should be shut down but generalising and tainting a whole population because of the actions of a small minority is a fallacious position and one that should be confronted. Their are merits in discussing how to deal with the extremists and immigration but not when it spills over into generalisation, xenophobia and in some cases outright racism.

Having moderated Politics and Cmodded Society for a number of years I don't envy the workload the mods have but on occasion some of the views being allowed in AH are not desirable on a site that is supposed to foster discussion. It is a fine line though between a area to discuss emotive topics and becoming an echo chamber.

infogiver

Boards is suffering because an increasing amount of people simply cannot tolerate a different opinion to their own.
They have no perspective on "offended" whatsoever, you can almost hear the screeching hectoring tone through their posts.
The poor woman that has died in Sweden was an activist in the Green Party who campaigned in support of liberal immigration policies.
The irony is tragic but irony it is.
Screeching "hateful" "nasty"at a poster for mentioning the irony is just stupid.
There are posters going from thread to thread looking for posts to be outraged at and posters to admonish like a kind of left wing cyber world police force.

Will I Am Not

gandalf wrote: »

I really laugh at the Irish here labelling a whole group of people because of the actions of a few religious extremists. The vast majority are like us, they love their families and they want to get on with their lives where ever that may be.

Growing up in the 1970's and 80's we Irish were the ones vilified because of the actions of a minority of extremists. I remember the headlines in the British Tabloid press about the Irish after bombings, it mirrors very closely the language used about the Muslim community today in the same ragtops.

I don't believe that critical discussion should be shut down but generalising and tainting a whole population because of the actions of a small minority is a fallacious position and one that should be confronted. Their are merits in discussing how to deal with the extremists and immigration but not when it spills over into generalisation, xenophobia and in some cases outright racism.

Having moderated Politics and Cmodded Society for a number of years I don't envy the workload the mods have but on occasion some of the views being allowed in AH are not desirable on a site that is supposed to foster discussion. It is a fine line though between a area to discuss emotive topics and becoming an echo chamber.

This is something that gets blown way out of proportion here. There is definitely an element of it but people wanting to ban all Muslims or outlaw Islam are few and far between.

Little CuChulainn

infogiver wrote: »

Boards is suffering because an increasing amount of people simply cannot tolerate a different opinion to their own.
They have no perspective on "offended" whatsoever, you can almost hear the screeching hectoring tone through their posts.
The poor woman that has died in Sweden was an activist in the Green Party who campaigned in support of liberal immigration policies.
The irony is tragic but irony it is.
Screeching "hateful" "nasty"at a poster for mentioning the irony is just stupid.
There are posters going from thread to thread looking for posts to be outraged at and posters to admonish like a kind of left wing cyber world police force.

It's not irony I have an issue with. It's the "They brought it on themselves" sentiment.

SterlingArcher

infogiver wrote: »

Boards is suffering because an increasing amount of people simply cannot tolerate a different opinion to their own.
They have no perspective on "offended" whatsoever, you can almost hear the screeching hectoring tone through their posts.
The poor woman that has died in Sweden was an activist in the Green Party who campaigned in support of liberal immigration policies.
The irony is tragic but irony it is.
Screeching "hateful" "nasty"at a poster for mentioning the irony is just stupid.
There are posters going from thread to thread looking for posts to be outraged at and posters to admonish like a kind of left wing cyber world police force.

In the past these type of people policed themselves to ignore the Catholic churchs misdeeds and failings.

They now do the same with the failings of Islam or immigration . Maybe it appeals to them because their personality is similar to Islam.

Heaven forbid you criticised a religion that for the most part seeks to repress individuals through thought or expression dissimilar to theirs.

The Saudis who were on the head of human rights of the united nations. executed a person because they were atheist.

Then these self styled defenders of virtue on college campuses wanting only what they see fit discussed in a manner that suits them. Shut it down if it don't. They call people nazis. Truth be told they are the most likely candidates in a situation like Nazi Germany to become "the good Germans" helping police their fellow citizens.

Jobs OXO

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's not irony I have an issue with. It's the "They brought it on themselves" sentiment.

Of course there is cause and effect. A persons actions and decisions have consequences or not. If you don't like the consequences then that's your problem.

AlekSmart

[QUOTE=The Fake Sheikh;103363894]This is something that gets blown way out of proportion here. There is definitely an element of it but people wanting to ban all Muslims or outlaw Islam are few and far between.[/QUOTE]

+1 to that sentiment.

There appears to be a policy of deliberate misinterpretation of any post which contains questioning of Islam.

Any post which countenances an increased level of caution,prudence and,perhaps even restriction,on large numbers of unverified and anonymous young followers of Islam,will quickly draw a withering gaze and usually an infraction.

Coming from,and living in,a Liberal Western Society is apparently seen as something which we will have no bother selling to our new arrivals,who will quickly abandon their core beliefs in order to embrace our ways.

Posters who remain somewhat sceptical of the great-power of Western Liberalism to convert all & sundry,are (usually) slapped with pithy one-line responses constructed around a few core buzz-words....Racist...Islamophobe....Hate Speech....Nazi etc.

Time and again,even pointing out the reality that moderate Islam and it's many millions of adherents,face a FAR more difficult situation in dealing with the Mysoginistic....Christianophobic....Violent.....radicals who control significant elements of their entire way-of-life,will merit an infraction,ban or thread lock.

Few appear to recognize that,whatever reasonable and thought-through changes in Islamic beliefs,going forward into the 2nd Half of the 21st Century MUST come from within moderate Islam initally....there is NO possibility whatsoever of any Western Belief Structure imposing or converting our new migrant millions from without.

I would suggest that in short-circuiting,restricting and shutting down quite relevant discussions,the Mods/Admins/Proprietors are unaware that they are actively preventing non-radical Muslim's from informing themselves about a strand of the new Western World they now exist within.

The constant Mod throttling and reluctance to broaden their views beyond Buzz terms,have essentially the same effect as the many and varied Fatwa's regularly issued by Radical Islamic Leaders in their many hate filled sermons,now readily available via the Interwebnet.

At some point,perhaps sooner than many think,our Admins/Mods may well have to choose where their allegiances lie on the entire thorny matter...which of these will get an Infraction first ......?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/46-imams-issue-fatwa-16-year-old-muslim-sings-isis-video/

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/264378/iranian-fatwa-women-may-not-ride-bicycles-dr-majid-rafizadeh

https://clarionproject.org/saudi-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-female-supermarket-cashiers-4/

Or perhaps... this....?

http://www.newsweek.com/gathering-female-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-child-marriage-rape-591442

We Suave,Liberal,Broadminded Western folk,will at some point have to make a call on this for ourselves,so which is to be on this Forum......We cannot have it both ways ?

infogiver

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's not irony I have an issue with. It's the "They brought it on themselves" sentiment.

But a "sentiment" is not something you can complain about and admonish.
It's tantamount to telling people that they can't "feel" this or "think" that.
If that poster had said
" well you couldn't have any sympathy for that woman because she brought it on herself by being a member of the Green Party" then that would be inaccurate and mildly offensive.
Pointing out the blatantly obvious irony is neither.

Little CuChulainn

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Of course there is cause and effect. A persons actions and decisions have consequences or not. If you don't like the consequences then that's your problem.

So it's you position that his woman caused this terrorist attack, by this already failed asylum seeker, by her assumed political position on what immigration should be like? That's an almighty stretch in logic. And what about the ex SF member up for torture? Do you blame his victim for being a fraudster? Who do you blame for Anders Breivik?

infogiver wrote: »

But a "sentiment" is not something you can complain about and admonish.
It's tantamount to telling people that they can't "feel" this or "think" that.
If that poster had said
" well you couldn't have any sympathy for that woman because she brought it on herself by being a member of the Green Party" then that would be inaccurate and mildly offensive.
Pointing out the blatantly obvious irony is neither.

Is that not what the reference to "You reap what you sew" was?

gandalf

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

This is something that gets blown way out of proportion here. There is definitely an element of it but people wanting to ban all Muslims or outlaw Islam are few and far between.

No it isn't blown out of proportion, I've seen it on threads here and on other online forums. These people may have sincere opinions but the way they express them is generalising an entire population and is extremely ignorant. What I have not said is that Islam or any other religion is free from legitimate criticism.

However calling all Muslims terrorists or backwards because extremists carried out an act of terrorism is simplistic and ignorant just like it was when we were in the firing line in the 70s & 80s.

Dublin Pintman

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

That passes as proper hateful with you?

I'll just quote the full post because you're being a bit disingenuous there.



The big problem for me is that people find something like this "proper hateful"

Nothing hateful about it, just ironic that a baby boomer met her end through the insane polices of open borders and mass immigration that she herself promoted.

gandalf wrote: »

I really laugh at the Irish here labelling a whole group of people because of the actions of a few religious extremists. The vast majority are like us, they love their families and they want to get on with their lives where ever that may be....

Bull****. I'll say what I want about Islam and extremist Muslims. Call me a racist all day, Idgaf. The days of you so called liberals shaming people into silence are gone.

infogiver

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So it's you position that his woman caused this terrorist attack, by this already failed asylum seeker, by her assumed political position on what immigration should be like? That's an almighty stretch in logic. And what about the ex SF member up for torture? Do you blame his victim for being a fraudster? Who do you blame for Anders Breivik?



Is that not what the reference to "You reap what you sew" was?

But your taking extreme offence and reacting extremely to an obscure Bible reference.
The vast vast majority of Muslims just want to be allowed go about their business and don't want to be associated with the few dickheads who choose to interpret the text in a way that allows them to be uber destructive.
But there's no doubt that those few are making an awful lot of noise, causing a lot of fear, trying to cause a lot of pain, causing a lot of inconvenience and costing a lot of money and you can't deny that and PRETEND that their not and shout at people who are entitled to object to being made to live in fear, especially when they are afraid of people we have invited into our country.
There aren't gangs of vigilantes stalking around the streets threatening Muslims here or in the U.K. (Where such behaviour could be almost seen as justified between the child grooming and the terrorism) so it's not as if Ireland is a teeming hotbed of jingoistic racism.
Shouting down anyone who expresses any disapproval of Islam, especially as Islamic leaders have more or less failed to lift their heads above the parapet to condemn the jihadis, is just denying someone else their opinion

Help!!!!

What about the people who go into a thread & keep ranting that the thread should be moved or shut down & keep harassing the other posters until the thread is finally shut down. I'd like to see the Mods look more into why posts are being reported because the people reporting them usually have hidden agenda's

Little CuChulainn

infogiver wrote: »

But your taking extreme offence and reacting extremely to an obscure Bible reference.

No, I'm taking offence at how it was used to pass blame onto the victim.

jackofalltrades

The problem as I see it is that some posters on this site are only interested in freedom of speech when it's things that they agree with.*
Coupled with a shift to the right on several topics, is leading to the increased tension that we are seeing now.
That and what constitutes hate seems to vary a lot from one poster to the next.

I completely agree that posters who come out with comments like "all Muslims are X" should be infracted.
That said if a terrorist attack happens people are going to want to discuss it.
And yes Islam could come in for criticism, just like the Catholic church does on other threads.
Repeated attempts to derail threads and get them shutdown should not be tolerated.
Every terrorist thread seems to be interrupted by straw man arguments referencing the IRA or the number of people killed in road accidents or the length of the Quebec terrorism thread or references to people "creaming themselves".

If a thread makes you uncomfortable then don't read it.
Stay away and leave it to people who want to discuss it.
Stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

*Before you tell me that freedom of speech doesn't exist on the site, I know.

Pelvis Parsley

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No, I'm taking offence at how it was used to pass blame onto the victim.

If you're prone to such misplaced hyper-sensitivity, you should consider your ability to moderate fairly. Or perhaps the admin team should do so for you.

infogiver

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No, I'm taking offence at how it was used to pass blame onto the victim.

But why are you taking offence at all?

Will I Am Not

gandalf wrote: »

No it isn't blown out of proportion, I've seen it on threads here and on other online forums. These people may have sincere opinions but the way they express them is generalising an entire population and is extremely ignorant. What I have not said is that Islam or any other religion is free from legitimate criticism.

However calling all Muslims terrorists or backwards because extremists carried out an act of terrorism is simplistic and ignorant just like it was when we were in the firing line in the 70s & 80s.

This site is not rife with people like that. It's plain to see that there's a handful of persistent re-regs expressing those views for the most part because when you do you don't last long.

pilly

jackofalltrades wrote:

If a thread makes you uncomfortable then don't read it. Stay away and leave it to people who want to discuss it. Stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

Therefore proving the theory of the OP that it turns into an echo chamber of hate no?

People who don't like it and challenge it should fcuk off. Where does the discussion come into it if it's only one side?

gandalf

Dublin Pintman wrote: »

Bull****. I'll say what I want about Islam and extremist Muslims. Call me a racist all day, Idgaf. The days of you so called liberals shaming people into silence are gone.

How do you know I am a liberal? I hope you're not another one of these poor deluded fools that thinks firing labels around is having a discussion. We probably have the same opinion about extremists however I don't condemn a whole religion based on the actions of a few deluded twats.

The days of decent people calling out the ignorant who label the many for the sins of the few will never go away.

The Hill Billy

Pelvis Parsley wrote: »

If you're prone to such misplaced hyper-sensitivity, you should consider your ability to moderate fairly. Or perhaps the admin team should do so for you.

Personal digs at our moderators will not be tolerated, especially when they are not mods of the forum under discussion.

tHB

infogiver

pilly wrote: »

Therefore proving the theory of the OP that it turns into an echo chamber of hate no?

People who don't like it and challenge it should fcuk off. Where does the discussion come into it if it's only one side?

But there's no discussion. There's just lots of posts like "that's a disgusting thing to say and this is a disgusting post and you are a disgusting nasty person for making that post you should be ashamed of yourself "
That's just hectoring and attempting to prevent a discussion because you don't agree with the poster.

Annasopra

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

That passes as proper hateful with you?

I'll just quote the full post because you're being a bit disingenuous there.



The big problem for me is that people find something like this "proper hateful"

Yep

That is proper hateful. I completely agree on that.

Boggles

gandalf wrote: »

How do you know I am a liberal?

It is amazing what can you get you labelled a liberal these days.

Yourself isit

gandalf wrote: »

No it isn't blown out of proportion, I've seen it on threads here and on other online forums. These people may have sincere opinions but the way they express them is generalising an entire population and is extremely ignorant. What I have not said is that Islam or any other religion is free from legitimate criticism.

However calling all Muslims terrorists or backwards because extremists carried out an act of terrorism is simplistic and ignorant just like it was when we were in the firing line in the 70s & 80s.

And nobody does the latter. As I said however, in a previous feedback post, a favoured poster on this site blamed all catholics past present and future (not the church but believers) for the church's child abuse and drove a thread on a robbery of a tabernacle off topic. The posts were deleted but the poster is unbanned.

AlekSmart

Pelvis Parsley wrote: »

If you're prone to such misplaced hyper-sensitivity, you should consider your ability to moderate fairly. Or perhaps the admin team should do so for you.

To be fair,Little Cuchulainn is fully entitled to his sensitivities,and to post his views on them being offended.

The problem lies in whether or not his personal sensitivities are then carried over into Moderation.

The greater body of posters can only assume that is the case ?