Drinking in pregnancy...

Whispered

I was past my 1st trimester before I found out I was pregnant and I drank every weekend before I knew. I spent the rest of my pregnancy feeling absolutely sick with guilt and worry. I really don't know how anybody can knowingly drink to excess when pregnant.

However when I expressed my concerns to my doctor he tried to put my mind at ease and told me not to worry.

Mrs OBumble

ceadaoin. wrote: »

On all the studies done on alcohol consumption during pregnancy, FAS has never been observed .

Has any study ever observed an Irish person who is capable of drinking moderately? I've never met one.

Personally I blame moderate fetal alcohol damage for a lot of the ****wittery we observe in public life here, FAS diagnosis or not.

andekwarhola

Even if a moderate drink is OK, the thought of drinking any alcohol with a baby inside you is weird.

andekwarhola

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Had any study ever observed an Irish person who is capable of drinking moderately? I've never met one.

You've never met a moderate Irish drinker in your life?

Spanish Eyes

If men could get pregnant there would be no castigation of women or men.

Look, my mother gave birth to four of us. She didn't smoke, but she had a bottle of Guinness every day, was told this was good for her iron levels at the time. LOL.

We are ok. So is she.

My father just had to deposit the sperm. No judgments there for him at all. And the same today.

Women have so many rules thrown at them.

mrsbeebee

I had the odd drink on baby no 1 - probably about 6/7 over the 9 months. It was 10 years ago and advice at the time was the odd one won't hurt. was offered a glass of wine at a party when I was pregnant with my 3Rd baby 3 years ago. I said no thanks but I'd have a cup of coffee and the response was "really? Should you be drinking coffee?".

andekwarhola

andekwarhola wrote: »

You've never met a moderate Irish drinker in your life?

Most people are moderate drinkers I'd guess.

Romantic Rose

Ugh reminds me when I was going to the Coombe when I was pregnant with my first child and there would be pregnant ladies outside huffing and puffing the cigs while guzzling their big bottles of coke.

I don't think it should be hard to cut cigarettes or alcohol and junk food out for 9 months but people are selfish.

Sam Kade

I wonder how many of the do gooders in this thread support abortion?

Spanish Eyes

The day men will be told to avoid drink and the likes for the nine months of their partner/wife's pregnancy is the day I will take notice of the "pregnancy rules".

Everyone knows that doing things that might harm the baby is not good. It is the absence of the same rules for the same time for the Dad that is a laugh. Should be a blood test for both at the antenatal classes/scans. Can you imagine.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The day men will be told to avoid drink and the likes for the nine months of their partner/wife's pregnancy is the day I will take notice of the "pregnancy rules".

Everyone knows that doing things that might harm the baby is not good. It is the absence of the same rules for the same time for the Dad that is a laugh. Should be a blood test for both at the antenatal classes/scans. Can you imagine.

This makes no sense

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

It does

Fathers drinking all along before conception can affect the fetus


Cognitive and behavioral findings are the most robust effects. These include learning and memory deficits, hyperactivity, and poor stress tolerance. Multiple causal mechanisms for a paternal effect have been suggested, but none seems satisfactory to explain all findings.

This makes even less sense. Before conception?

The other poster I was responding to said during pregnancy.

gctest50

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The day men will be told to avoid drink and the likes for the nine months of their partner/wife's pregnancy is the day ...........

Men should avoid it before they get their partner pregnant apparently :




http://www.ajsc.us/files/ajsc0030217.pdf

Effects of environmental exposure on parental epigenetics: alcohol

Epigenetic mechanisms play a role in fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASDs) FASDs are a broad array of congenital disorders with major symptoms including reduced birth weight, impaired cognitive function and behavior, and neuropsychological deficits in visualspatial learning [35]. Studies have shown that paternal alcohol consumption has epigenetic effects on sperm DNA, suggesting a role in the development of congenital disorders in offspring. Up to 75% of children with FASD have biological fathers who are alcoholics, suggesting that preconceptional paternal alcohol consumption negatively impacts their offspring]

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

Yip, if you are drinking all along and you then get your gf / wife pregnant - your little drinking pastime can/will have an effect on the kid

And obviously on future generations

Ok, probably for a seperate thread? This one is for drinking during pregnancy.

Start a new thread with your validated research. I'm sure many would find it interesting.

rainbow kirby

Romantic Rose wrote: »

Ugh reminds me when I was going to the Coombe when I was pregnant with my first child and there would be pregnant ladies outside huffing and puffing the cigs while guzzling their big bottles of coke.

I don't think it should be hard to cut cigarettes or alcohol and junk food out for 9 months but people are selfish.

You can still have 200mg of caffeine a day when pregnant, a can of Coke is only 32mg of caffeine.

Romantic Rose

rainbow kirby wrote: »

You can still have 200mg of caffeine a day when pregnant, a can of Coke is only 32mg of caffeine.

I was referring to the sugar in coke more than the caffeine! Hardly a healthy combo- cigarettes and coke.

A_Sober_Paddy

rainbow kirby wrote: »

You can still have 200mg of caffeine a day when pregnant, a can of Coke is only 32mg of caffeine.

That seems like a lot of caffeine

Beyondgone

Pffft..if it wasn't for drink, there'd be feck all pregnancy to begin with. More people have been conceived because their parents were on the beer than ever were wrung into existence through "planning". Herself wouldn't let me near her unless she'd had at least 3/4 of a skinfull. I encourage her to drink as much as is humanly possible. She doesn't even like drink..

rainbow kirby

Considering a Costa americano is 170mg it isn't really! I'm a huge coffee drinker and found cutting that down when I was pregnant with my son way harder than cutting out booze.

Mrs OBumble

andekwarhola wrote: »

You've never met a moderate Irish drinker in your life?

My idea of a moderate drinker is someone who you can meet for one drink - and they just have one drink. Not two, three, five etc.

I've met plenty of Irish people who abstain totally. I've never met any who stop at one.

ted1

murpho999 wrote: »

Anybody who drinks any alcohol during pregnancy is stupid, selfish and ignorant.

Alcohol goes straight into the bloodstream and therefore straight to the baby.

It's very simple.

Lived in Netherlands for years and never seen any expectant mother drink any alcohol ever, it's just not done.

Why is it different here?

A little is ok, Ask any Doctor.

Lia_lia

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

My idea of a moderate drinker is someone who you can meet for one drink - and they just have one drink. Not two, three, five etc.

I've met plenty of Irish people who abstain totally. I've never met any who stop at one.

I often have just one drink.

Junkyard Tom

Mi muthr drunk loads wen she wus pergnant an ut dud me no harm.

Tigger

RoboKlopp wrote: »

This makes even less sense. Before conception?

The other poster I was responding to said during pregnancy.

I quit drink for three months and ate very healthy before we conceived to make sure my sperms were as good as possaible
She ate well and the idea of her drinking is laughable

the_syco

Does it mention demographics?

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Ten years ago I was in a Dublin maternity hospital with my wife for an appointment and the doctor said having an occasional drink like a glass of wine is fine.

Some people are unable to just have "one" whilst pregnant, as they are weak.

IvyTheTerrible

Lia_lia wrote: »

I often have just one drink.

Me too.

JupiterKid

The occasional glass of wine now and then during pregnancy is going to be fine. Binge drinking and alcoholic drinking during pregnancy is what causes FAS and other damage.

This is health fascism gone mad. Should we lock up pregnant women to ensure they abstain from drinking completely?

Graces7

Sam Kade wrote: »

I wonder how many of the do gooders in this thread support abortion?

Really? No way. What a snide comment and of what relevance to this topic?

Graces7

ted1 wrote: »

A little is ok, Ask any Doctor.

Problem with that is that the most recent research says otherwise and also it is a sheer lottery what effect it has on the unborn.

Alcohol is toxic. Would you feed a baby alcohol after birth? I doubt it.

Graces7

JupiterKid wrote: »

The occasional glass of wine now and then during pregnancy is going to be fine. Binge drinking and alcoholic drinking during pregnancy is what causes FAS and other damage.

This is health fascism gone mad. Should we lock up pregnant women to ensure they abstain from drinking completely?

Well should we? Not fascism.

Graces7

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Has any study ever observed an Irish person who is capable of drinking moderately? I've never met one.

]Personally I blame moderate fetal alcohol damage for a lot of the ****wittery we observe in public life here, FAS diagnosis or not.

\

Indeed yes. We see that in Canada too. Diagnosis is hard and when it affects behaviour it makes it harder. Looking at some of the more recent court cases re teenagers ?

Cannot see why folk object so strongly. If quitting drinking is so hard for them they have a serious problem. They really do.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

The occasional glass of wine now and then during pregnancy is going to be fine. Binge drinking and alcoholic drinking during pregnancy is what causes FAS and other damage.

This is health fascism gone mad. Should we lock up pregnant women to ensure they abstain from drinking completely?

Not good advice

SettlePettal

My doctor told me to have the odd glass of wine if i wanted. That was a year ago. So i did, was he to be reported? If you can't trust your doctor then who do you trust? People of boards, new ever changing research?

All these comments calling women names, calling ME names. Selfish, disgusting ect. People are just awful.

SettlePettal

SettlePettal wrote: »

My doctor told me to have the odd glass of wine if i wanted. That was a year ago. So i did, was he to be reported? If you can't trust your doctor then who do you trust? People of boards, new ever changing research?

All these comments calling women names, calling ME names. Selfish, disgusting ect. People are just awful.

Aren't people just quoting medical research which is always ongoing?

Current research says drinking alcohol (even in small amounts) during pregnancy is risky and should be avoided. Pretty clear cut tbh.

SettlePettal

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Aren't people just quoting medical research which is always ongoing?

Current research says alcohol (even in small amounts) is risky and should be avoided. Pretty clear cut tbh.

Totally conflicting advice from doctors all over the internet. It's not pretty clear cut, what are you talking about. How is it clear cut when GPs advise one glass is fine.

pickarooney

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Mi muthr drunk loads wen she wus pergnant an ut dud me no harm.

Thungs are duffrint in new Zealund though

bee06

Perhaps it's the difference between advice for a large group versus an individual. If you are giving medical advice to millions of women it's safer to say don't drink at all because some women would take drink in moderation or one glass is ok and use it as an excuse to drink excessively. Whereas a GP taking to an individual who he/she knows is sensible can say one glass and know it will be kept to one glass.

I personally don't understand why someone would bother with the one glass though. What's the point? Of course, I've never been much of a drinker.

Parchment

I dont understand why some people argue for drinking during pregnancy. Its 9 months - there is an end to it, you can have a drink then.

Why even take the tiniest risk for one drink?

Thumpette

I was heading towards 10 days overdue when I was pregnant with my first son. Hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for the whole pregnancy but was trying all the normal old wives tails to kick off labour. My friend (who's a midwife and has 4 healthy children) told me that the way she always gets started is a bottle of wine. I didn't have a bottle, but I had one small glass. 36 hours later we found out that his heart had stopped beating and he was stillborn.

He was perfectly healthy but his placenta function wasn't great towards the end. I'll never know if that glass of wine made a difference (doctor's say no) but in my heart I will always wonder if it might have been the final strain on an already silently failing placenta.

It makes me so angry so see women drinking and smoking in pregnancy. It's selfish and deluded. How hard is it really to make small sacrifices for the well being of your child. All this 'nanny state' and 'demonising women' and 'it was alright for hundreds of years' is just people kidding themselves.

Parchment

Thumpette wrote: »

I was heading towards 10 days overdue when I was pregnant with my first son. Hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for the whole pregnancy but was trying all the normal old wives tails to kick off labour. My friend (who's a midwife and has 4 healthy children) told me that the way she always gets started is a bottle of wine. I didn't have a bottle, but I had one small glass. 36 hours later we found out that his heart had stopped beating and he was stillborn.

He was perfectly healthy but his placenta function wasn't great towards the end. I'll never know if that glass of wine made a difference (doctor's say no) but in my heart I will always wonder if it might have been the final strain on an already silently failing placenta.

It makes me so angry so see women drinking and smoking in pregnancy. It's selfish and deluded. How hard is it really to make small sacrifices for the well being of your child. All this 'nanny state' and 'demonising women' and 'it was alright for hundreds of years' is just people kidding themselves.

Wow - i am so sorry for your loss of your son.

SettlePettal

SettlePettal wrote: »

Totally conflicting advice from doctors all over the internet. It's not pretty clear cut, what are you talking about. How is it clear cut when GPs advise one glass is fine.

It is pretty clear cut. Alcohol should be avoided. Peddling the contrary opinion is dangerous advice.

Go to the NHS website for example which would have up to date dependable medical advice.

Thumpette

Thumpette wrote: »

I was heading towards 10 days overdue when I was pregnant with my first son. Hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for the whole pregnancy but was trying all the normal old wives tails to kick off labour. My friend (who's a midwife and has 4 healthy children) told me that the way she always gets started is a bottle of wine. I didn't have a bottle, but I had one small glass. 36 hours later we found out that his heart had stopped beating and he was stillborn.

He was perfectly healthy but his placenta function wasn't great towards the end. I'll never know if that glass of wine made a difference (doctor's say no) but in my heart I will always wonder if it might have been the final strain on an already silently failing placenta.

It makes me so angry so see women drinking and smoking in pregnancy. It's selfish and deluded. How hard is it really to make small sacrifices for the well being of your child. All this 'nanny state' and 'demonising women' and 'it was alright for hundreds of years' is just people kidding themselves.

Sorry to hear that

Samaris

Thumpette wrote: »

I was heading towards 10 days overdue when I was pregnant with my first son. Hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for the whole pregnancy but was trying all the normal old wives tails to kick off labour. My friend (who's a midwife and has 4 healthy children) told me that the way she always gets started is a bottle of wine. I didn't have a bottle, but I had one small glass. 36 hours later we found out that his heart had stopped beating and he was stillborn.

He was perfectly healthy but his placenta function wasn't great towards the end. I'll never know if that glass of wine made a difference (doctor's say no) but in my heart I will always wonder if it might have been the final strain on an already silently failing placenta.

It makes me so angry so see women drinking and smoking in pregnancy. It's selfish and deluded. How hard is it really to make small sacrifices for the well being of your child. All this 'nanny state' and 'demonising women' and 'it was alright for hundreds of years' is just people kidding themselves.

That is tragic, I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope you'll eventually no longer blame yourself or wonder about it.

Thumpette

Samaris wrote: »

That is tragic, I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope you'll eventually no longer blame yourself or wonder about it.

Thanks Samaris. I think the constant why's are just a part of it. I just hope someone can read my story and realise how not worth the risk it is xx

Whispered

Thumpette I'm so sorry for your loss.

meeeeh

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Aren't people just quoting medical research which is always ongoing?

Current research says drinking alcohol (even in small amounts) during pregnancy is risky and should be avoided. Pretty clear cut tbh.

Actually current research says that they don't know how much/little alcohol is harmful so it should be avoided.

It's not my problem if many people here have such a disfunctional attitude to alcohol that they can't stop guzzling anything in sight when they start. But I certainly won't be judged for couple of glasses I had during pregnancy with food by those who harm own health and put others in danger with their binge drinking. I bet that the biggest zealots in this thread have the most disfunctional relationship with alcohol and they are judging others by their own behavior.

KERSPLAT!

Thumpette wrote: »

I was heading towards 10 days overdue when I was pregnant with my first son. Hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for the whole pregnancy but was trying all the normal old wives tails to kick off labour. My friend (who's a midwife and has 4 healthy children) told me that the way she always gets started is a bottle of wine. I didn't have a bottle, but I had one small glass. 36 hours later we found out that his heart had stopped beating and he was stillborn.

He was perfectly healthy but his placenta function wasn't great towards the end. I'll never know if that glass of wine made a difference (doctor's say no) but in my heart I will always wonder if it might have been the final strain on an already silently failing placenta.

It makes me so angry so see women drinking and smoking in pregnancy. It's selfish and deluded. How hard is it really to make small sacrifices for the well being of your child. All this 'nanny state' and 'demonising women' and 'it was alright for hundreds of years' is just people kidding themselves.

That's heartbreaking. I'm sorry for your loss.

My son's mother smoked while pregnant, to say there were a few bust ups over it would be an understatement. Thankfully there was very little alcohol taken, maybe 3-4 glasses over the entire period but still.

Thumpette

Thank you. Smoking is a whole other level.

I wrote this a couple of months after losing Max. Just getting it down on paper and shared made me feel better about wanting to warn every pregnant woman I saw.

I'm now 31 weeks pregnant with Max'/ little brother. Terrified but hopeful we'll get to take him home. Again being around pregnant woman in classes etc just showed their innocence and assumption that everything will be ok.

https://l4stars.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/what-id-tell-her/

Arevaci

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes, we can't expect silly women to make an informed decision about their alcohol consumption can we, let alone understand the meaning of the word "moderate"

My daughter is 5 and The advice when I was pregnant from the NHS was 1-2 drinks once or twice a week. When I was in early labour I was told by the midwife to relax in the bath with a glass of wine. Do you think that the NHS was putting thousands of babies at risk for FAS for years with that advice?

There is plenty of evidence that moderate drinking does not cause harm. Being obese or even travelling in a car are more dangerous for pregnant women and their babies. Is anyone suggesting that mothers who do those things are also selfish?

The research at the moment suggests that there is no safe level of alcohol use during pregnancy.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2015/10/13/peds.2015-3113

Moderate levels of alcohol use does not cause fetal alcohol syndrome but may contribute to fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. Some of the effects may be subtle at the milder end of the spectrum, such as behavioural difficulties from a poorly developed frontal lobe as well as learning difficulties. It can also be associated with certain facial features like a low nasal bridge.

The danger of a topic like this is that it gets throw into the area of women's rights and why can't women make an informed decision about their alcohol use etc. etc. The reality is that most people have no idea of the effects of alcohol on a developing fetus and so a zero tolerance approach is needed. The day that people are concerned a few drinks might led to a lifetime looking after an intellectually disabled child then a less paternalistic approach can be taken.

Interestingly, men also should be concerned about their alcohol use. Use of alcohol up to 6 months before the point of conception can lead to DNA abnormalities in the sperm that can result in health problems for the child. It's not at the same level of risk but if women should have no drink during pregnancy then it's only fair the father should have no drink prior to conception and ideally during pregnancy.

ted1

Graces7 wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

A little is ok, Ask any Doctor.

Problem with that is that the most recent research says otherwise and also it is a sheer lottery what effect it has on the unborn.

Alcohol is toxic. Would you feed a baby alcohol after birth? I doubt it.

That's just a silly statement. There's cynaide in apples , would you give a child an apple.

It's to do with quantity.