Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45

Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe".

Wonder does that include filming in provinces where human rights are being oppressed?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-under-fire-for-filming-mulan-in-chinas-xinjiang-province

Not that Disney should be too upset about such.
Ol Walt himself was a bit of a racist and an apparent slave driver to work under.

Feisar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wonder does that include filming in provinces where human rights are being oppressed?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-under-fire-for-filming-mulan-in-chinas-xinjiang-province

Not that Disney should be too upset about such.
Ol Walt himself was a bit of a racist and an apparent slave driver to work under.

Ya know as well as me it's all about the optics and the bottom line.

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

Now Gina is out of the way Disney can focus on the next dangerous and harmful thing to society

The Muppet Show.

Disney says that The Muppet Show contains “offensive content” and can now be seen only on an adult account. So while its offensive and harmful, they'll [Disney] show it regardless.

The disclaimer before the show says:



:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I already cannot believe some of the nonsense thats going on in the modern world, all this gender rubbish for a start. Big Hairy builder labourer types demanding to be treated like women because they claim to be women and identify as such, complete bat-poop crazy imho. I have seen a case of this first hand.

We're heading for some strange dystopian future, Like something out of Orwell's books, or worse. Can you imagine where we are going to be in 10 or 20 years time ? The living will envy the dead.

Grizzly 45

I've seen the future, you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sittin' around in his beige pyjamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake singing "I'm an Oscar-Meyer Wiener". Edgar Friendly "Demolition man"

Who would have thought a cheesy action flick of the 1990s would become a prophetic social commentary on life 20 years later?

Grizzly 45

Here's the next one for us to deal with lads...
The EUSSR now wants 10% of ALL the Eurozone to be a wilded area.
That means zero hunting, fishing, farming, wood harvesting or human footprint of ANY type . That means also removing ANY&ALL human habitation and infrastructure too...

If you read this article, the alarming bit should be for us here in Ireland...
“significant carbon-rich ecosystems, such as peatlands, grasslands, wetlands, mangrove forests and seagrass beds”.

The European Commission has been pushing the issue with vigor and has demanded a quick response to the proposal from all member states, before the end of the year. Thereafter, the work of establishing criteria continues, and by 2023, each country must have identified areas that fall under EU criteria. In 2024, the EU will evaluate the work and quite possibly apply strict legislation.

Don't be surprised if that Green idiot, Ryan and his happy bunch in the EU parliament will be slobbering over this proposal. After all,if it is being done in Sweden, and Ireland seems enamoured with everything that miserable Socialist country,[bar its Covid procedures] does...Well, then it must be 100% good for Ireland too.:rolleyes: Not to mind the EU ass kissers we elect into the Dail who always want to be the EU class swot...I can see this one as the next campaign post EUSSR lead ban.:(

www.freewestmedia.com/2020/12/06/swedish-hunters-alarmed-at-new-eu-proposals-to-limit-hunting-areas/

cookimonster

I'll let you know as to how the fire arm licensing end of it is going as at the moment between myself and a few other mates theres one new application, several renewals and two substitutions going on. One of my renewals is back and through the system in about a 3 week turnaround, given the fact they are working restrictions that's great.

Re a exit strategy and current restrictions - the big F Up was the Government jumping the levels too quickly last year, the even bigger one was people flocking back to thier 'social networks' because they 'could' or 'can'. Many of those who did so are either suffering the direct effect of it with Covid infections in thier house holds or are now preaching 'solidarity and pull together to beat this' - hypocrisy. Some of the same would be back down the boozers flaunting the rules and laughing at it if they could.

In my own position I get to work with a cross section of the national population from the four corners of the country. Everything was going relatively smoothly in the last quarter of the year until relaxation began. Boom, a surge in close contacts, infected family members, isolations, so on and so on occurred. Coincidence, I don't think so, our records clearly state it all occurred around the relaxation of the restrictions.

Many years ago we were taught about food poisoning and those at the time who were at the greatest risk- the Young, the Old and the Infirm. By infirm it meant people who are sick. Medical advances have enabled many, many people in our society to live a normal healthy life, but in reality those that have survived other wise life ending or threatening conditions do in fact have continuing issues or are susceptible to secondary illnesses / disease. Examples of such- corrective heart surgeries survivors are susceptible to oral infections - so dental surgery is done under caution. Cancer survivors / transplant patients suffer long term immune issues. Car / Sporting accidents resulting in splenectomy have a lower immune system. Respiratory illness, diabetes and even pregnancy normal associated with manageable conditions are at a higher risk due to the virus. So infact the section of society that are at risk is a lot wider then you would think.

Ponder this - It has been asked about the normal flu, were has it gone during the pandemic. The answer - its still there, but social distancing has greatly reduced the number of infections, this can be said of the common cold the incidence rate has reduced, again due to social distancing.

Several older members of my family, friends and work colleagues are no longer with us due to Covid. Try telling a 70 odd year old that they are only a statistic, a demographic of society and for the greater good they should take the hit. A few years back at the bed side of a dying relative in thier 70's it was touching to hear them say that they wish they had more time, 'so much more to do' was the expression they used.

The last point, my sibling (50's) who was infected by Covid, didn't require hospitalization but is now suffering long term effects of it which has had a massive impact on thier life- hobbies, pastimes, daily routines and job all fecked.

I'm no expert but those who doubt this epidemic and its measures of control, take time to look at what is going on in other countries and see how their actions are working both positively and negatively.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Here's the next one for us to deal with lads...
The EUSSR now wants 10% of ALL the Eurozone to be a wilded area.
That means zero hunting, fishing, farming, wood harvesting or human footprint of ANY type . That means also removing ANY&ALL human habitation and infrastructure too...

If you read this article, the alarming bit should be for us here in Ireland...
“significant carbon-rich ecosystems, such as peatlands, grasslands, wetlands, mangrove forests and seagrass beds”.

The European Commission has been pushing the issue with vigor and has demanded a quick response to the proposal from all member states, before the end of the year. Thereafter, the work of establishing criteria continues, and by 2023, each country must have identified areas that fall under EU criteria. In 2024, the EU will evaluate the work and quite possibly apply strict legislation.

Don't be surprised if that Green idiot, Ryan and his happy bunch in the EU parliament will be slobbering over this proposal. After all,if it is being done in Sweden, and Ireland seems enamoured with everything that miserable Socialist country,[bar its Covid procedures] does...Well, then it must be 100% good for Ireland too.:rolleyes: Not to mind the EU ass kissers we elect into the Dail who always want to be the EU class swot...I can see this one as the next campaign post EUSSR lead ban.:(

www.freewestmedia.com/2020/12/06/swedish-hunters-alarmed-at-new-eu-proposals-to-limit-hunting-areas/

With the eu's handling of covid, and that village eejit von der leyen in charge, its like a bus heading for a cliff :rolleyes:.

Rows Grower

cookimonster wrote: »

I'll let you know as to how the fire arm licensing end of it is going as at the moment between myself and a few other mates theres one new application, several renewals and two substitutions going on. One of my renewals is back and through the system in about a 3 week turnaround, given the fact they are working restrictions that's great.

Re a exit strategy and current restrictions - the big F Up was the Government jumping the levels too quickly last year, the even bigger one was people flocking back to thier 'social networks' because they 'could' or 'can'. Many of those who did so are either suffering the direct effect of it with Covid infections in thier house holds or are now preaching 'solidarity and pull together to beat this' - hypocrisy. Some of the same would be back down the boozers flaunting the rules and laughing at it if they could.

In my own position I get to work with a cross section of the national population from the four corners of the country. Everything was going relatively smoothly in the last quarter of the year until relaxation began. Boom, a surge in close contacts, infected family members, isolations, so on and so on occurred. Coincidence, I don't think so, our records clearly state it all occurred around the relaxation of the restrictions.

Many years ago we were taught about food poisoning and those at the time who were at the greatest risk- the Young, the Old and the Infirm. By infirm it meant people who are sick. Medical advances have enabled many, many people in our society to live a normal healthy life, but in reality those that have survived other wise life ending or threatening conditions do in fact have continuing issues or are susceptible to secondary illnesses / disease. Examples of such- corrective heart surgeries survivors are susceptible to oral infections - so dental surgery is done under caution. Cancer survivors / transplant patients suffer long term immune issues. Car / Sporting accidents resulting in splenectomy have a lower immune system. Respiratory illness, diabetes and even pregnancy normal associated with manageable conditions are at a higher risk due to the virus. So infact the section of society that are at risk is a lot wider then you would think.

Ponder this - It has been asked about the normal flu, were has it gone during the pandemic. The answer - its still there, but social distancing has greatly reduced the number of infections, this can be said of the common cold the incidence rate has reduced, again due to social distancing.

Several older members of my family, friends and work colleagues are no longer with us due to Covid. Try telling a 70 odd year old that they are only a statistic, a demographic of society and for the greater good they should take the hit. A few years back at the bed side of a dying relative in thier 70's it was touching to hear them say that they wish they had more time, 'so much more to do' was the expression they used.

The last point, my sibling (50's) who was infected by Covid, didn't require hospitalization but is now suffering long term effects of it which has had a massive impact on thier life- hobbies, pastimes, daily routines and job all fecked.

I'm no expert but those who doubt this epidemic and its measures of control, take time to look at what is going on in other countries and see how their actions are working both positively and negatively.

That's probably more words than you've written on here in the last few years but it was worth waiting for. Fair play.

Munsterlad102

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Here's the next one for us to deal with lads...
The EUSSR now wants 10% of ALL the Eurozone to be a wilded area.
That means zero hunting, fishing, farming, wood harvesting or human footprint of ANY type . That means also removing ANY&ALL human habitation and infrastructure too...

If you read this article, the alarming bit should be for us here in Ireland...
“significant carbon-rich ecosystems, such as peatlands, grasslands, wetlands, mangrove forests and seagrass beds”.

The European Commission has been pushing the issue with vigor and has demanded a quick response to the proposal from all member states, before the end of the year. Thereafter, the work of establishing criteria continues, and by 2023, each country must have identified areas that fall under EU criteria. In 2024, the EU will evaluate the work and quite possibly apply strict legislation.

Don't be surprised if that Green idiot, Ryan and his happy bunch in the EU parliament will be slobbering over this proposal. After all,if it is being done in Sweden, and Ireland seems enamoured with everything that miserable Socialist country,[bar its Covid procedures] does...Well, then it must be 100% good for Ireland too.:rolleyes: Not to mind the EU ass kissers we elect into the Dail who always want to be the EU class swot...I can see this one as the next campaign post EUSSR lead ban.:(

www.freewestmedia.com/2020/12/06/swedish-hunters-alarmed-at-new-eu-proposals-to-limit-hunting-areas/

How in God's name is the government supposed to implement that? What do they do, start randomly throwing CPOs at farmers and people with bogland? There is zero way the government can afford thousands of acres of land, and then how do they chose who's land gets bought?

tudderone

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

How in God's name is the government supposed to implement that? What do they do, start randomly throwing CPOs at farmers and people with bogland? There is zero way the government can afford thousands of acres of land, and then how do they chose who's land gets bought?

The eu, well eec as was, threw billions at farmers across Europe with the CAP, to be more efficient, to continually get higher yields from the land. One lovely farm i used to shoot over changed hands and when i went back the next season, it was two fields and no hedges.

Now they want the opposite.

Uinseann_16

CPOs can only do so much and a huge constitutional challenge by farmers over the right to property will be a do or die for all agriculture and homeowners , I don't see that happening lightly ...
I mean what are the EU gonna do take the roof's off the houses and burn them ? Oh that sounds familiar

Cass

Apologies in advance for the long post. It was not intended and my attempts at shortening it have been for nothing.

cookimonster wrote: »

I'm no expert but those who doubt this epidemic and its measures of control, take time to look at what is going on in other countries and see how their actions are working both positively and negatively.

This has been said by plenty of people on the forum and more than a few in real life. The severity i'm referring to. I don't doubt it, i don't deny it, but (there is always a but) to what end?

• We are one year into this with the prospect of at least another 2 years to go. Vaccine roll out is slow, very slow. By the time everyone is vaccinated those vaccinated first will already need another dose (i'm led to believe there is a "time limit" on the effectiveness of the vaccine).
• In the last 12 months we have accrued €25 Billion extra debt on top of the existing debt from 2008/09 (in the region of €85 Billion).
• Jobs that were "suspended" are now being lost as businesses face additional months of closure.
• Those businesses may not be able to open when restrictions are lifted so those jobs are gone and more people join the live registry on social protection.
• The moratorium on rent, mortgages, etc. ended last October. Since then people have had to pay their rent, mortgage, bills, car loans, etc, etc. but do it on, max, €350 per week. This is leading to people becoming further indebted and the possibility of their job being lost at any month is an very looming possibility.

Couple all the above with the double talk we see on TV. Things like get tested, visits your GP, we're all in this together, etc, etc. now look at real world actions.

GPs won't see you at all. I won't talk for every county, just locally to me. Four GPS work out to the clinic and none will see you. They talk on the phone and e-mail prescriptions to the Pharmacy. You go in thinking you may have been exposed and your told we don't offer testing, just stay at home for two weeks. You job asks for a positive test or letter from your GP for not only continued wages, but that you have a job to go back to, but the GP won't issue such a thing and you haven't been tested.

So now you're at home without ever knowing if you have it or not. If you do then you've prevented spreading it, but lost your wages at best or job at worst. If you didn't have it you run the risk of losing either wages or the job, plus you are as prone to exposure as before, but its all a question mark because you have not been tested.

Now lets move onto health.

• Mental health issues are reportedly on the rise.
• Domestic abuse on the rise, deaths from other illnesses such as Cancer, Cardiac issues, and a host of other ailments because hospitals are postponing (a buzz word for actually cancelling) or simply outright cancelling procedures and appointments.
• I have first hand experience with this with three appointments from early 2020 "suspended" and only recently moved to yet another date. In total i'm waiting close to 23 months for one of these appointments.
• I've have family in the same boat. My Uncle, as i mentioned before, has cancer and is having operations cancelled.

Lastly the "we're all in this together" is bullsh*t. Excuse the language. Last year when this started people took out loans to bulk buy groceries and essentials leaving the most vulnerable without. It got so bad supermarkets and other businesses had to institute special hours and practices to combat this.

That first round was considered a hiccup with people taking to social media to voice the, virtue signaling, outrage while sitting on three months worth of food and home essentials. Then the next long lockdown was announced and once again people went out to bulk buy. This time was not quite as severe but not because of people's thoughts for others, but because of the manufacturers increase in production and the shops forethought to limit quantities being bought at once. So the most vulnerable got left out again.

I'm not arguing that any age group is expendable. I'm not saying to open up everything and risk it all for a biscuit. Ireland, ie. the Government, has done NOTHING in the last year bar initiate three lockdowns. They have dropped the ball constantly and mismanaged this in every way possible.

Look at it from a hunting point of view. A mostly solitary pursuit and can be made such quite easily, but no, you cannot do that. Every day i meet dozens of cyclists and walkers, in large groups, but i cannot go out for a shot. It took a court case to stop the Gardaí implementing a ban on shooting that was unlawful, something which they got the impetuous for from the emergency powers granted under this pandemic. The same laws that are being passed without consultation or debate because its "not safe".

Instead of learning they [Government] repeat the same mistakes, shout at each other in the Dáil then go home with their €2,000 a week wages because "we're all in this together". Funny they never had to work on €200 - €350 per week. They took two pay rises in the last year while others have lost a LOT. Their homes are not at risk, and if anything they do less as their constituency offices and Oireachtas meetings are lower than before.

In a time when they should be working to ease the burden on people they focus on green initiatives which will increase the burden on rural areas while promising an increase in taxation on an emergency payment they forced people onto by closing their businesses/workplace.

Their only concern is optics and getting to America to give a senile old fool a bag of weeds.

The end result is we have lost lives, homes, jobs, health and continue to do so with the prospect of higher taxation, no plan from the Government and no end in sight. So i'll say it again to be clear. I'm not a heartless so-n-so that doesn't care for the elderly or infirm (considering I am one and am caring for the other). However we have been manipulated through a campaign of fear and 24 hour scaremongering into sacrificing even more than this pandemic would take on its own in the interest of saving those less fortunate when the Government's track record on the less fortunate is well establish as abysmal.

I sometimes wonder if the Government done nothing at all how different would things be, if at all.

tudderone

The French Greens up to silly games.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56144913

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

Now lets move onto health.

• Mental health issues are reportedly on the rise.
• Domestic abuse on the rise, deaths from other illnesses such as Cancer, Cardiac issues, and a host of other ailments because hospitals are postponing (a buzz word for actually cancelling) or simply outright cancelling procedures and appointments.
• I have first hand experience with this with three appointments from early 2020 "suspended" and only recently moved to yet another date. In total i'm waiting close to 23 months for one of these appointments.
• I've have family in the same boat. My Uncle, as i mentioned before, has cancer and is having operations cancelled.

Their only concern is optics and getting to America to give a senile old fool a bag of weeds.


I sometimes wonder if the Government done nothing at all how different would things be, if at all.

Mental health ? Yes there is going to be trouble there, and good luck to any poor git who is ill, because help isn't easy to find i would think. I am normally level headed, but being stuck in the house recently with the covid and then the shocking weather we've had, cabin fever is starting to take hold. Getting out for a walk is a live-saver.
Domestic abuse ? Again being barracaded into a house with a puck of bored kids and a piddled off spouse/partner isn't a receipe for a harmony.

The stupid virtue signalling and horse feathers about the "Special relationship" between Ireland and America, the bowl of goat food being handed over, makes me vomit.

Feisar

Cass wrote: »

That first round was considered a hiccup with people taking to social media to voice the, virtue signaling, outrage while sitting on three months worth of food and home essentials. Then the next long lockdown was announced and once again people went out to bulk buy. This time was not quite as severe but not because of people's thoughts for others, but because of the manufacturers increase in production and the shops forethought to limit quantities being bought at once. So the most vulnerable got left out again

I have yet to meet anyone that bulk bought, everyone was "only getting a few bits". It's the same mentality as Xmas, you'd hear people saying "jaysus, Aldi/Dunnes/Tesco was mobbed, you'd swear the shops were never going to open again". Umm, how do you know it was busy, oh you were in there to. People never see themselves as part of the problem.

Feisar

We were in the playground in the town park this morning. Empty when we arrived but I pulled the pin when it started to get busy. Frickin' baltic anyway. It's mad that a playground full of kids is OK I can't go for a solitary shot on my uncles land.

Cass

Feisar wrote: »

Umm, how do you know it was busy, oh you were in there to. People never see themselves as part of the problem.

I remember a woman, last year, ringing into a radio show to complain about the amount of people on the beach. She was livid. Too many people on the beach, not enough keeping apart, etc.

The host then asked her how she knew this. She said "sure i was there, i couldn't move". Then the host asked could she not see the problem or double standard. She was lost. I mean genuinely couldn't understand the hypocrisy of her complaint.

tudderone

Never seen the footpaths as busy near me, it was like a sponsored walk. People are sick to the back teeth of being cooped up like chickens. If you didn't get out you'd go off your nut. I head to the local tesco and buy a loaf of bread, never had so much bread, and maybe a waltz around Lidl (some great tools for sale next week) for a gawk too.

Munsterlad102

Cass wrote: »

I remember a woman, last year, ringing into a radio show to complain about the amount of people on the beach. She was livid. Too many people on the beach, not enough keeping apart, etc.

The host then asked her how she knew this. She said "sure i was there, i couldn't move". Then the host asked could she not see the problem or double standard. She was lost. I mean genuinely couldn't understand the hypocrisy of her complaint.

I'm sort of guilty of this myself, I went out for the walk with the dog and the beach was packed. Much more than what is usually down there. I don't mind locals going for their walk, it's just the people who come out from town, the people who bullsh*t their way past a Garda checkpoint. To be fair to me, the beach is within my 5k, I can see it from the house, and there's not many other places where the dog can get his run.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

I sometimes wonder if the Government done nothing at all how different would things be, if at all.

There'd be a lot more dead for starters. There would have been no lockdowns and we would have been like Italy at the start of the pandemic.

Nobody would have vaccines.

Hospitals would have run out of PPE.

Sick people would be coming to work infecting everyone else as there'd be no pandemic payment or business supports.

Now maybe most people would have herd immunity by now but we can't say that for sure.

Basically I think we'd be worse off than we are.

Feisar

While I'm having a moan, masks, bloody masks. Like a band aid on a bullet wound. Sure they may offer some minor protection and I've no issue wearing one but it's the people that go on about them with a zealots fervor. Case in point, a lad came into my office and commented I wasn't wearing a mask. Firstly, he was in for a chin wag, zero point it. Secondly I've a flask with me for my coffee so I don't need to go to the machine and I've a packed lunch, all to minimize my interactions. No one is commenting on the whole place touching the same coffee machine.

meathstevie

tudderone wrote: »

The eu, well eec as was, threw billions at farmers across Europe with the CAP, to be more efficient, to continually get higher yields from the land. One lovely farm i used to shoot over changed hands and when i went back the next season, it was two fields and no hedges.

Now they want the opposite.

Very valid point. I’m afraid it’s a bit more sinister than that, deliberately or not I don’t know. What we’re witnessing is the slow but definite extermination of the traditional European family farm. With the margins that small and medium farmers are making on crops and livestock it simply doesn’t add up anymore to carry on.

If you make €100/€150 on a finished bullock you can’t stay in business unless you’ve at least 500 of them leaving the yard every year.

Call me a bit cynical but what my eyes are seeing is a drive to extremely industrialised large scale farming on a limited amount of land and the rest of the land being off limits to anything but faux environmentalist virtue signalling.

American style agri conglomerates running the show and rural lifestyle and all that comes with it confined to history.

The EU should take a long hard look at itself and go back to it’s origins when it comes to it’s philosophy of continent wide food security and support for diversity in farming and agriculture.

It’s one thing handing out regional brand protections and so on but in the meantime creating policy that makes it impossible for the producer of the product to survive, it’s hypocrisy of the highest order.

Cass

I get what your saying, and my comment (i hope you realise) was a tongue in cheek somewhat sarcastic comment to highlight the ineffectiveness of the action of the Government.

BattleCorp wrote: »

There'd be a lot more dead for starters.

Possibly, but how mnay died because of transmission because the Government allowed unregulated travel, or simply travel to continue even to this day?

There would have been no lockdowns and we would have been like Italy at the start of the pandemic.

No we wouldn't have been. Italy was a stand alone case. Between their population being over 22% over 85s (the oldest/largest in Europe), their "touchy" culture, dense towns/cities, and most importantly Nothern Italy beig a hub for international businesses, especially China, they are unique.

Nobody would have vaccines.

Again i meant nothing in terms of the actions they carried out to combat it. Not nothing in the form of bringing in a vaccine. Although with a vaccination timescale of oveer 2 years for 3.5 million people it might as well be no vaccination.

Hospitals would have run out of PPE.

They did, twice. Once at the start and again when Harris/Leo bought in millions of faulty PPE.

Sick people would be coming to work infecting everyone else

Still happened, albeit perhaps not to the scale it would have, when the meat plants were centres for outbreaks in Kildare and Offaly. Coupled with the still open travel/airports and case numbers still remain high today.

as there'd be no pandemic payment or business supports.

There is none now and hasn't been since October. Plus it wouldn't have been necessary as people would be working.

Now maybe most people would have herd immunity by now but we can't say that for sure.

Nor can i.

Basically I think we'd be worse off than we are.

I made the comment initially as a "feckers" type of throwaway insult. However now with answering i'm wondering if it had even a hint of merit.

I'm not so foolish as to think that the Government shouldn't have intervened or that everything done was useless. My only real point, as i cannot and won't waste anyone's time arguing otherwise, is how badly hey have preformed time and again.

• They lied to us about PPE
• Kept airports/ports open, to this day (then blamed the EU)
• Allowed concentrated outbreaks to occur in meat plants and other foreign based worker businesses
• Banned internal travel but allowed international travel
• Did not regulate/enforce self isolation and still don't
• Stopped covid testing
• Shut down hospitals to all others with pre-existing conditions
• Lumped the alarming high death rate in nursing homes into Covid stats to cover up years of incompetence
• Put a man that oversaw and never apologised for the cervical smear scandal in charge
• Frequently broke their own rules on lockdowns (Martin, Leo, Hogan, Golfgate, etc)
• Initiated lockdown after lockdown with nothing done during them to alleviate the hardship on front line workers or to prepare for another rise in cases which always comes after a lockdown.

Lockdowns only make poor people poorer and destroy business, health, mental health. How many have died from non covid issues that could and should have been treated this last year?

I abide by the rules. I stay within the restricted travel zones and wear a mask. I can complain, but any opinion or thoughts are immediately met with skepticism and beratement because its not the "party line". IOW the Government wouldn't lie to us. We think we're free to say what we want but we're not. Last June/July people had very different thoughts but a dedicated media campaign soon put and end to the majority of the naysayers. Reminds me of this:

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."

Feisar

Cass wrote: »

Now lets move onto health.

While I agree with all that you said I'd just like to comment on health. Apart from all the people that are going to suffer/die due to procedures being pushed back or cancelled, there is a strong correlation between GDP per capita and life expectancy. Ya can't shaft the economy and not expect an effect on the health system.

Cass

Feisar wrote: »

....... there is a strong correlation between GDP per capita and life expectancy. Ya can't shaft the economy and not expect an effect on the health system.

Thats my point and it won't end when this situation does (or whatever we call and end).

otmmyboy2

BattleCorp wrote: »

There'd be a lot more dead for starters.

One often unconsidered point on this.
There is an argument to be made that the perpetual lockdowns are just prolonging the deaths that otherwise would have occurred faster, but occurred nonetheless.

IE - lockdown people for X amount of time, to stop the spread.
Ok, but then whenever things reopen, and the must at some point, then infection rates will rise.
The Y factor here being the various vaccines, efficacy and side effects notwithstanding they are supposedly only effective for Z amount of time.

So the results:
Lockdowns indefinitely until a sufficient amount get vaccinated?
Ensure that everyone afterwards gets boosters indefinitely?
Mask wearing, social distancing etc indefinitely because evidently vaccinated/herd immunity folks could still pass on the virus?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't see an end date/goal/objective with the above in mind.
The latest claptrap from NPHET notwithstanding either. Lockdown/restrictions until the medical waiting lists are down?!
They were growing and years long before covid, thus the lockdown/restriction cycle is not exponential?

And that is completely setting aside the deaths and pending deaths as a direct result of lockdowns.
Loss of business/jobs/economy has a direct influence on the mental health of people, and the likelihood of suicide, either attempted or actual, increases with deteriorating mental health.

Finally at a certain point Ireland will become even less viable than it was for everyone who has a transferable skillset and they will start looking at other countries to escape to.

Personally I've been planning leaving Ireland for a myriad of reasons before all this hit.
Now those plans are accelerating and I am aiming to get out as soon as I can.

And I can tell you, that is a prevailing opinion among younger people.

Feisar

Cass wrote: »

Thats my point and it won't end when this situation does (or whatever we call and end).

Sorry, I was agreeing with you, I wasn't the clearest on that. A lot of people seem to think we should shaft the economy to save lives though.

Cass

We've done that and then some.

This is the problem with such arguments. How does anyone try and argue a case for re-opening when the emotive rebuttal of saving lives cannot be trumped and anyone who argues for re-opening is immediately accused of being callous and/or uncaring.

This falls into the "we're all in this together" nonsense. That line demands people put aside their natural instincts for self preservation/protection and that of their family for "the greater good". In the end these people may lose their business/job which means loss of house, car, etc. That means a rise in homelessness, people on welfare, strain on the social services, increase in taxation to offset that increase, means people still working are taxed higher and resent those not working.

Even as i write this i am falling foul of the very thing i'm discussing. Making a case for re-opening which goes against the best interests of everybody.

Grizzly 45

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

CPOs can only do so much and a huge constitutional challenge by farmers over the right to property will be a do or die for all agriculture and homeowners , I don't see that happening lightly ...
I mean what are the EU gonna do take the roof's off the houses and burn them ? Oh that sounds familiar

You'd have to take it to the" EU court of human rights", and we saw how well THAT worked for this firearms issue?:roll eyes: So if you have a couple of millions handy, once you have gone thru the Irish judicial system first to get redress that is...
As to areas that they would be targeted.More than likely anything like the midland bogs or the like around the country and possibly the Burren area. But you'd never know with these "experts" in charge.

tudderone

I wonder how many businesses and therefore jobs will be lost through all this ? The hospitality and tourism sector is going to be in a right mess. Pubs, hotels, etc that will have to wrap up and call it a day. The whole thing is a mess. The only ones to make money out of it , Ironically and annoyingly is the ones who caused it in the first place, the Chinese.