Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

civdef

Cass wrote: »

Perhaps i'm remembering incorrectly (ala the source of this statement) but were we not told that even after vaccination we need to keep wearing masks, staying away from family/friends, and essentially adhering to lockdown protocols?

By the way i understand the need for these measures until enough people are vaccinated and a level, if not complete, herd immunity is reached, but that detail was not mentioned or even implied which is probably the cause of some of the opposition.

More recent research is showing it should be OK - the CDC statement referenced here earlier is based on that work.

I think this has been a cause of confusion along the way generally over the last year for people - official medical organizations (and pharma companies) have to have repeatable, verifiable studies backing up anything they say. Even if something makes sense and is probably true - they can't say it without evidence. This was particularly visible with whether vaccinations would reduce transmission of COVID. Experience from other vaccines indicated it probably would, but the initial studies didn't focus on that (some of the fastest development in human history), so until later studies gave the evidence, it couldn't be banked on.

Edit to add - this is for people who have had the full 2 dose regieme or a reasonable amount of time passed since shot 1. You can't walk straight from first vaccination clinic into a nightclub as the vaccine won't have taken effect yet.

civdef

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

There is also a decent amount of griping over the government's definition of herd immunity only including vaccinated folks, not acquired immunity from having had covid.
That and their discussion of vaccines only lasting X months before needing boosters, which will mean their definition of herd immunity will be a constantly fluctuating number.

This is another situation where studies will provide evidence to work with - they're saying 6 months now - but immunity from infection is not as resistant to new variants as immunity from vaccination.

civdef

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Possibly do like the UK?Get as many 1st doses of whatever into the most people possible,so they have a 60% + immunity with the 1st shot?

The UK took a big gamble on that one - working off preliminary results in advance of full evidence - fair play to them it seems to be working.

They took big gambles on things like herd immunity from infection earlier that resulted in a lot of deaths. Stakes are high.

civdef

One thing that has been missed a lot is that point in fairness, just because someone is old doesn't mean their opinion shouldn't be asked.

On the flip side, the virus is measurably and demonstrably very dangerous for people in their 80s. There have been several residential care centres around here where the grim reaper took about 1/3 of residents. Some of these were people who were taken well ahead of their time. The fear in these places was very real and palpable.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Have you asked the 85-year-olds that question?
my mum is now 83 and possibly on the chaotic list of when she will get the dose.3 of her friends were given last-minute or no show doses in the last two weeks.
So I have skin in the game on this. But as she has said herself Once you are passed the 80 mark, every day is not a given anymore,and Covid is robbing her age group of what time is left, and when you reach a certain age, you get to accept that "appointment in Samarra" which we all have to make is coming closer every day.
So she has decided NOT to be a prisoner in her own house and goes and meets likewise minded old folks who want to meet up and are of the same mindset and contrary to what their children and govt say.
Time is short for those folk so maybe ASK them and allow what they want to do perhaps? If some want to live like hermits surrounded by a platoon of children guarding and waiting on them...Fair enugh...others might say so what I'm a goner soon enough let me hug my grankids. I think our oldies at least deserve THAT much.

civdef

tudderone wrote: »

Our lot are relying on the eu for the vaccine and can only use what they give. They should have gone solo and bought it where ever they could obtain it. Their first duty is to the citizens of Ireland, not a pretend parliament in Brussels.

The problem with that plan is that a small country like us has frig all purchasing power and demand greatly exceeds supply. It mightn't seem like it now, but we're doing better through EU (with all the messing) than we would have on our own. You only have to look back to the first few months of the pandemic when we were trying to buy scarce supplies of PPE on our own. People generally have no idea how much of a Wild West that was - and how difficult it was to procure any sort of decent PPE. And at elast lots of companies can make PPE and scaling up production wasn't particularly challenging over a few months.

There was a lot of fuss made about Denmark- the extra doses they bought with great fanfare are coming much later in the year.
Russia has made great noise about what actually does look to be a pretty good vaccine, but when you look at production capacity it is no game changer.
When the first of the chinese vaccines was tested in Brazil it showed very poor effectiveness.

This is not a buyer's market. And we're very small buyers outside the EU.

tudderone

civdef wrote: »

One thing that has been missed a lot is that point in fairness, just because someone is old doesn't mean their opinion shouldn't be asked.

On the flip side, the virus is measurably and demonstrably very dangerous for people in their 80s. There have been several residential care centres around here where the grim reaper took about 1/3 of residents. Some of these were people who were taken well ahead of their time. The fear in these places was very real and palpable.

Whats shocked me about this wretched virus is that it is not like some other diseases, in that this virus can have long term health effects. Programme on the televison about it tonight.

otmmyboy2

tudderone wrote: »

Whats shocked me about this wretched virus is that it is not like some other diseases, in that this virus can have long term health effects. Programme on the televison about it tonight.

That whole aspect is being laboured occasionally yes.
"Long covid", and all that.

Unsurprising honestly, anything that affects your respiratory system, or really any of the body's systems, if it does significant damage, can have quite long lasting effects.

Treatment can do the same too, ventilators(being pertinent to extremely bad covid treatment) can cause ventilator-associated lung injury, which can seriously damage your lungs.

Think of it in regards to trauma, a decent whack will do some damage, but it'll heal.
Do enough damage, break a bone or tear a ligament and it is more susceptible to damage in future.

Buddy of mine has had several procedures done on his knees at this point, they're brittle as can be now.

Cass

Can someone explain this Davy scandal to me. I've read a few articles and other than fines imposed and the actions of 16 employees i'm either missing the punchline or the articles are not well written. They don't seem to spell out the scandal.

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

One thing that has been missed a lot is that point in fairness, just because someone is old doesn't mean their opinion shouldn't be asked.

On the flip side, the virus is measurably and demonstrably very dangerous for people in their 80s. There have been several residential care centres around here where the grim reaper took about 1/3 of residents. Some of these were people who were taken well ahead of their time. The fear in these places was very real and palpable.

I'm hardly surprised that it ran rampant in the Old folk's homes... We knew they were basically in many cases badly run,for-profit warehouses that wouldn't spend a penny if they could avoid it least of all on PPC.It was a scandal before Covid on how they were run.

Grizzly 45

Take a Zinc pill once a week and keep the immune system active. We are grubby animals that do need others dirt and diseases to keep our immune systems in peak condition. Isolating ourselves too much will also play havoc with our immune systems as well.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Take a Zinc pill once a week and keep the immune system active. We are grubby animals that do need others dirt and diseases to keep our immune systems in peak condition. Isolating ourselves too much will also play havoc with our immune systems as well.

I always thought so, as a kid i was semi-feral, in fields, up trees, playing by a river, walking in cow plop, up to all sorts and i was never sick much.

Uinseann_16

Bonzo is back it seems
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0311/1203422-warning-dog-owners/
Saw the as a few years back on YouTube and it gets the point across quite well I thought , and no money spent on a new ad

Cass

Wow. Haven't seen that in a loooonnnng time.

Uinseann_16

Cass wrote: »

Wow. Haven't seen that in a loooonnnng time.

1984 was when it came out

Cass

I was 7 or 8.

You know you're getting old when you're filling in an online form and find you have to scroll, then scroll, and scroll a little more to reach the year of your birth.

Cass

Just checking the newspapers and see the lockdown is going to be extended till late May.

Starting to relate to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L6i5AwVAbs

tonysopprano

Cass wrote: »

Can someone explain this Davy scandal to me. I've read a few articles and other than fines imposed and the actions of 16 employees i'm either missing the punchline or the articles are not well written. They don't seem to spell out the scandal.

As the most respected financial org in Ireland, and the government go to for money. I contract you to sell my bonds/shares/etc, as I want to liquidate my assets NOW (reasons unknown). I sign contract with you and beg you to get me the best price as soon as possible. When I leave the office, you ring 15 of your buddies and say we can make a fortune here. You ring me back and says it is gonna be hard, with covid and the like, but you can get me 100billion tomorrow. I am under pressure, knowing it should be 120billion, but decide to go for it, as I am paying you 10% commission to get the best price for me. We do a deal, you get 10billion commission, I get 90billion and you and your 15 buddies get assets worth 120billion, which you sell tomorrow for ????

Davy makes 10billion commission, of which you get your cut
You and your 15 buddies, for no financial input, make at least 20billion
I lose at least 18billion
You are paid by Davy, plus get commission plus you are paid by me to get me the best deal.

Central Bank says this is legit

Cass

Wow.

tonysopprano wrote: »

Central Bank says this is legit

They fined them €4.1 million so obviously not "that legit".

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

Wow.

They fined them €4.1 million so obviously not "that legit".

Loose change to that lot.

tonysopprano

Cass wrote: »

Wow.

They fined them €4.1 million so obviously not "that legit".

€4.1 MILLION on a transaction of BILLIONS, is pittance, and only fined because it was made public, and sure the plebs will think it matters because they know millions but haven't a clue how much a billion is.

A million seconds is 12 days.
A billion seconds is 31 years.

Feisar

tonysopprano wrote: »

€4.1 MILLION on a transaction of BILLIONS, is pittance, and only fined because it was made public, and sure the plebs will think it matters because they know millions but haven't a clue how much a billion is.

A million seconds is 12 days.
A billion seconds is 31 years.

That’s a great one for putting what a billion is in perspective

Cass

tonysopprano wrote: »

€4.1 MILLION on a transaction of BILLIONS, is pittance, and only fined because it was made public, and sure the plebs will think it matters because they know millions but haven't a clue how much a billion is.

Agreed on the amount. I was referring to the fact they were fined at all. IOW it cannot be legit if there was a fine. So what was it that caused the fine? Was it the act of unscrupulous money making or was it illegal? If its unscrupulous then its a moral issue and if its illegal then its criminal and hence should have the Gardaí involved.

A million seconds is 12 days.
A billion seconds is 31 years.

Great explanation.

tudderone

Get caught swiping some groceries out of Dunnes and you'd be made a show of in court, thieve millions or billions and bubkis. Same happened with the property crash and bail-out in 2008.

Grizzly 45

What did that Fuk get who ruined us with Anglo?? 4 years and he's out on probation 2 years later. Ruin a countries economy and peoples livlihood thru fraud.A slap on the wrist and go enjoy your trousered millions. Sell some weed or smuggled garlic,You get4 years... ONLY in Ireland...

Grizzly 45

ANOTHER reason to never vote Green!!!When you have utter crazy cat ladies like this making statements form and in places of power...

It also makes a mockery of the "only ThE POLicE sHouLd have GunZ" attitude,as her murderer was one of the armed diplomatic protection squad.
How do you screen out the evil in a person mind, when the evil-doer is in a position of power and authority who passed all security and checks with flying colours?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9350711/Green-peer-calls-MEN-face-6pm-CURFEW-wake-Sarah-Everard-murder.html

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

ANOTHER reason to never vote Green!!!When you have utter crazy cat ladies like this making statements form and in places of power...

It also makes a mockery of the "only ThE POLicE sHouLd have GunZ" attitude,as her murderer was one of the armed diplomatic protection squad.
How do you screen out the evil in a person mind, when the evil-doer is in a position of power and authority who passed all security and checks with flying colours?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9350711/Green-peer-calls-MEN-face-6pm-CURFEW-wake-Sarah-Everard-murder.html

Thats no bother

Police man - "Excuse me sir, but what are you doing out after 6pm ?"

Man - "How dare you, i identify as a female, i am saving up for the operation"

tonysopprano

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What did that Fuk get who ruined us with Anglo?? 4 years and he's out on probation 2 years later. Ruin a countries economy and peoples livlihood thru fraud.A slap on the wrist and go enjoy your trousered millions. Sell some weed or smuggled garlic,You get4 years... ONLY in Ireland...

But in the deal he got to keep his €4 million pension pot

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What did that Fuk get who ruined us with Anglo?? 4 years and he's out on probation 2 years later. Ruin a countries economy and peoples livlihood thru fraud.A slap on the wrist and go enjoy your trousered millions. Sell some weed or smuggled garlic,You get4 years... ONLY in Ireland...

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that he didn't ruin the Country's economy. It was a world recession. We were going down the swanee anyway. Yes, 100% he saddled us with extra debt, but it's a bit of a stretch to blame him for the entire economy going down the swanee.

Grizzly 45

I'd put him in the category of Bernie Madoff's antics in the US.While the World was going to Hell both of these clowns actions didnt help,and Ireland wasn't in a bad position in national debt.It was private banking debt taked onto the national debt that pushed us over.Despite the doomsayers and predictions of bank runs and whatnot.The banks should have been allowed to go bust,but with Irish high society being what it is...That was never going to happen.:rolleyes:

tudderone

Two gun control bills pass in the USA, before heading to the senate.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-guns-idUSKBN2B32MA