Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

tudderone

Whats going to happen tomorrow (Paddys day) do you think ? Will it be a day of protests and baton charges ?

otmmyboy2

tudderone wrote: »

Whats going to happen tomorrow (Paddys day) do you think ? Will it be a day of protests and baton charges ?

Guessing so.
Evidently there was pretty much no garda presence at the protest today, likely since tomorrow is the big public one.

Well, ones.
I think there are like 3 protests/demonstrations planned?

I think it'll be more of the last one on Grafton Street.

Guards blocked off access to the park, escalated the situation, some scrotes fired a few fireworks at them, and they let off the leash.

My bet for the main protest tomorrow:
Another kettling tactic, likely followed by some excuse to go hands on.
Media will report on the poor guards/bad protestors narrative.

Message needs to be sent to the peons, only protest what we say is ok, which isn't gov policies

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

Whats going to happen tomorrow (Paddys day) do you think ? Will it be a day of protests and baton charges ?

I'll get to batton charge my missus, if I'm lucky. :D:D

tonysopprano

yubabill wrote: »

WRT risk - I will gladly accept anything with 95% or greater chance of survival and as there have been c. 40 strokes reported from c.40 million vaccine recipients, I'll happily risk that and live with the consequences if so be it.

Statistics from Covid-19 show a survival rate of 99.07%, why would you risk dropping your acceptance of survival to 95%?

Cass

yubabill wrote: »

I agree about the conflicting information coming from all sides, but in an emergency situation a consensus is a rare thing.

My point wasn't aimed at numbers or stats, its why i avoided them in my post above its about the conflicting information. I've watched broadcasts with Martin and Varadkar and they actually gave conflicting statements while standing beside each other. Then in the papers, on the news, etc. It gets so bad that when a reporter tells one that the other said something different they look like a Deer in the headlights, smile, and promise to get back to them with a definitive answer.

So with regards consensus it won't be possible to get it between the various nations, but within our own you'd think they could at least get the right message out.

Mellor wrote: »

From memory, the deaths were quickly dismissed as there was virtually no statistically significance. It was something line 20 deaths out of 20,000 elderly people vaccinated. All the people who died where over 80.

As was said to me before, not by you, one death is too much. However i'm not really in the mood for nor looking for a moral debate on the vaccine. Have not the inclination or energy for one. I'm not against it nor do i advocate for others to be.

Cass

Been a long time since we spoke about the bad orange man so i thought i'd refresh the topic, for only a moment.

The Washington Post "newspaper" has issued a retraction, and a piss poor one at that, where they admit they completely made up the quotes they attributed to Trump back in December when they claim he directed the Governor of Georgia to "find the fraud". They only done so because audio recordings of the call were released and proved he never said the things they claim he did.

The laughable part is other papers ran with the story, back then, after the post and said they verified the quotes!

How?

If they were made up how did they verify them. The level of accountability among these news media is atrocious.

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

Been a long time since we spoke about the bad orange man so i thought i'd refresh the topic, for only a moment.

The Washington Post "newspaper" has issued a retraction, and a piss poor one at that, where they admit they completely made up the quotes they attributed to Trump back in December when they claim he directed the Governor of Georgia to "find the fraud". They only done so because audio recordings of the call were released and proved he never said the things they claim he did.

The laughable part is other papers ran with the story, back then, after the post and said they verified the quotes!

How?

If they were made up how did they verify them. The level of accountability among these news media is atrocious.

I think a lot of Americans are having buyers remorse right about now.

Mellor

tonysopprano wrote: »

Statistics from Covid-19 show a survival rate of 99.07%, why would you risk dropping your acceptance of survival to 95%?

Do you have a source for that?
I've given up keeping an eye on numbers, as it's a bit grim and morbid. But last I looked it was just under 3% not 0.93%

Cass wrote: »

As was said to me before, not by you, one death is too much. However i'm not really in the mood for nor looking for a moral debate on the vaccine. Have not the inclination or energy for one. I'm not against it nor do i advocate for others to be.

You've missed the point. I'm not talking about acceptable number of deaths deaths caused vrs lives saved. I'm not interested in a vaccine debate either. I'm pointing out that people have a terrible grasp of numbers and statistics generally, and are easily mislead by these kind of memes.

Somebody who lives to 80 years old, is not expected to see 90. That's how fragile life is at that point.
So if you take a group of 80 year olds, and just looked after them, in a world without Covid. Some of them are simply going to die anyway.

If the group of 80+ is say 4000 people, they'll probably die at a rate of 1 per day. Faster with a bigger group.
Imagine that group is the first group for a vaccine. Even if it's 100% safe, they still die 1 per day like normal. And after a month the papers report "30 have died from group 1 of the vaccine".
People who can't grasp probability freak out and connect the dots despite the rate not changing. This is how a lot of conspiracy theories get a hold.

tudderone

Mellor wrote: »

From memory, the deaths were quickly dismissed as there was virtually no statistically significance. It was something line 20 deaths out of 20,000 elderly people vaccinated. All the people who died where over 80.

Take a significantly large enough group of 80 year olds, and some are going to die from natural causes in the next few days no matter what you do.


There are c.40 million over 65s in the US. 1,500 will have a stroke every day. over 500k per year (IOW 1.25% will have a stroke every year)

It must be hard to quantify the actual risk a vaccine has dealing with elderly populations.

I see in the news that both France and Italy have said they will now be using the AstraZeneca vaccine after all.

Cass

Mellor wrote: »

You've missed the point.

No, i haven't. Your previous comment read very, cold. Without context, as happens with the written word, it can come across wrong. I was replying to the dismissive nature of the way you explained the deaths.

I'm not talking about acceptable number of deaths deaths caused vrs lives saved.

Nor am i. I am discussing the conflict of information and the general resentment it has created, and continues to. Everything i said above is a paraphrasing of statements from Government, news media, and other sources. It reminds me of the 80s when they said don't drink tea, then its good for you, then its bad for you again. FFS make a decision and release it in a unified voice.

People who can't grasp probability freak out and connect the dots despite the rate not changing. This is how a lot of conspiracy theories get a hold.

Doesn't help that those who supposedly are "leading" us through this are themselves, lost. From a health Minister a year ago who thought there were 18 other variants of covid (God save me :rolleyes:) to the current mob who cannot agree with each other. The people are nervous, see this confusion and muppetry, then start to believe the social media "experts" who say you'll grow a second head if you get the vaccine. Government says you won't, a single person grows a second head, then the conspiracy theorist were right and more people flock to the altar of Facebook for their information. They [Government] need to start controlling the narrative, release only verifiable information, get themselves right and educated on the material before releasing it, have sources to cite to support their claims/actions and last but not least stop plagiarizing movies, for the love of Jesus. Ok, that last on was a little petty, so sue me.

I believe I said it before but the Government should do one thing:

"If in doubt keep their mouths shut (in this case press releases) and be thought of as a fool rather than speak (in this case hold a press conference) and remove all doubt".

Cass

tudderone wrote: »

I think a lot of Americans are having buyers remorse right about now.

M'eh. They made their choice so they can live with it. Like Trump, Obama before him, etc. Its always the end of the world for one side or another. Been an interesting 7 weeks so the next 3.9 years will b fun.

One thing i'd like to stop though is the fake news. Its still happening. One story i read, and it was so stupid even i called it out if for no other reason than its a scathing indictment of the education system, but one guy claims with the $1.9 trillion dollar "relief" package they passed in the states that each American could have gotten $42,000. The real figure would have been closer to $5800 each so where did $42,000 come from?

Another site had an article blaming biden for the rise in petrol prices. I don't doubt his EOs had an effect but the larger effect was Saudi Arabia announcing they were intending to reduce production by 1 million barrels a day and with the rollout of the vaccine its thought life will get back to normal which means people driving again so prices are rising, prematurely in my opinion, based on that assumption.

I bought fuel on Thursday last. It was €1.399 per litre, up from €1.359 a few days before. Going by the station today and the price is at €1.449. So in less than two weeks the price has risen by almost 10c per litre.

JP22

Cass wrote: »

............I believe I said it before but the Government should do one thing:

"If in doubt keep their mouths shut (in this case press releases) and be thought of as a fool rather than speak (in this case hold a press conference) and remove all doubt".

Agree - name escapes me now but some politition used to say "if your explaining, your loosing".

Cass wrote: »

........I bought fuel on Thursday last. It was €1.399 per litre, up from €1.359 a few days before. Going by the station today and the price is at €1.449. So in less than two weeks the price has risen by almost 10c per litre.

The price of lots of stuff is quietly creeping up at the moment, a bit sneeky I think, but not unusuall. When pandemenioum happens, they are plenty of those who profit.

Mellor

Cass wrote: »

No, i haven't. Your previous comment read very, cold. Without context, as happens with the written word, it can come across wrong. I was replying to the dismissive nature of the way you explained the deaths.

I wasn't dismissing any deaths. I was highlighting that people are unable to grasp statistically co-relation. The fact you think I was dismissing the deaths proves you misunderstood my point.

If there evidence for a single death due to the vaccine (which is not the same as a vaccinated person dying) then it needs consideration.

Nor am i. I am discussing the conflict of information and the general resentment it has created, and continues to. Everything i said above is a paraphrasing of statements from Government, news media, and other sources. It reminds me of the 80s when they said don't drink tea, then its good for you, then its bad for you again. FFS make a decision and release it in a unified voice.

The media contradict themselves all the time. They are trying to sell papers not explore science or statistics.

Doesn't help that those who supposedly are "leading" us through this are themselves, lost. From a health Minister a year ago who thought there were 18 other variants of covid (God save me :rolleyes:)

That was a screw up. He should know how many there were prior to covid-19. I wouldn't expect him to know in 2019. But once there's a pandemic, he needs to get the history on what a coronavirus is.

The people are nervous, see this confusion and muppetry, then start to believe the social media "experts" who say you'll grow a second head if you get the vaccine. Government says you won't, a single person grows a second head, then the conspiracy theorist were right and more people flock to the altar of Facebook for their information.

Idiots will always believe conspiracy theories. Even if the government control and verify everything, they can't stop lies.
Look at the austism/vaccine scaremongering. One asshole hard caused countless child deaths by publishing lies. He is free to tell those lies and are free to believe them, unfortunately.

The government need to do a better job. But I don't think that excuses assholes who make up lies to scare people. Or idiots to spread these lies.

Cass

Mellor wrote: »

I wasn't dismissing any deaths.

Didn't say you were. I said it read that way. Read my post carefully, you'll see.

I was highlighting that people are unable to grasp statistically co-relation.

All people?

The fact you think I was dismissing the deaths proves you misunderstood my point.

Nope.

If there evidence for a single death due to the vaccine (which is not the same as a vaccinated person dying) then it needs consideration.

Still not discussing that.

That was a screw up.

I know, its why i said it.

He should know how many there were prior to covid-19.

Other than the fact he should know the basics, he should know why covid19 is called covid19 and its not because there were 18 others before it as he said in his explanation.

Even if the government control and verify everything, they can't stop lies.

I never said they could or should try. As i said, and you said it yourself:

The government need to do a better job.

Exactly.

Reduce the ability for people to fall for lies and misinformation by being clearer, united in their message, a single voice instead of the press sideshow, and stop lying to the public.

But I don't think that excuses assholes who make up lies to scare people. Or idiots to spread these lies.

Goes for the Government too.

Mellor

Cass wrote: »

Didn't say you were. I said it read that way. Read my post carefully, you'll see.

In post #4036 you said no such thing. So less of the condescending attitude please.

All people?

I'm pretty sure understand what's implied when somebody refers to "people" generally.

Nope.

If you inferred something from my post, that wasn't intended or implied. Then you misunderstood that post.
I'm really not interested in debating the meaning of misunderstood, so I'm moving on.

Mellor

Cass wrote: »

One story i read, and it was so stupid even i called it out if for no other reason than its a scathing indictment of the education system, but one guy claims with the $1.9 trillion dollar "relief" package they passed in the states that each American could have gotten $42,000. The real figure would have been closer to $5800 each so where did $42,000 come from?

To get to 42k you need to add the Biden's $1.9T package to the $4-5T already spent last year. Oh and divide it by taxpayers only, not Americans.

It's $42k per tax payer spent/forecast to date. Serious gymnastic mathematics to get to claims like the one you called out.

Cass

Mellor wrote: »

In post #4036 you said no such thing. So less of the condescending attitude please.

Reminds me of something that may be relevant to you.

“If you run into someone that is condescending in the morning, you ran into someone that is condescending. If you run into people that are condescending all day, you're the one that is condescending.”

Grizzly 45

Not that the average American will get much of it anyway.The Dem covid relif package is so stuffed with pork barrel projects that have nothing to do with getting small businesses open again.

tudderone

Any gardeners on here have anyway to keep cats out of your garden/flower beds ? We spent a lot of time and money putting in plants, and the crazy cat woman next doors cats have dug them all up and destroyed the place with poop.

I don't want a barney with next door, so any natural remedies to get rid of them, deter them ?

Feisar

tudderone wrote: »

Any gardeners on here have anyway to keep cats out of your garden/flower beds ? We spent a lot of time and money putting in plants, and the crazy cat woman next doors cats have dug them all up and destroyed the place with poop.

I don't want a barney with next door, so any natural remedies to get rid of them, deter them ?

There are sonic noise yokes, emit a high pitched noise we can’t hear when a cat sets off the sensor. Rosemary, cayenne pepper, dried mustard, and lavender repel cats because they don't like the odor. Failing that a mink trap and disposal. I often think cat people wouldn’t be as fond of them if they crapped in their own garden. It’s a bugbear of mine that people think it’s OK to let their cats roam all day. I wouldn’t bother saying anything because when they start disappearing you’ll be the prime suspect.

BattleCorp

I can't see much easing of the lockdown as long as we are at or above 500 cases per day.

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

Any gardeners on here have anyway to keep cats out of your garden/flower beds ? We spent a lot of time and money putting in plants, and the crazy cat woman next doors cats have dug them all up and destroyed the place with poop.

I don't want a barney with next door, so any natural remedies to get rid of them, deter them ?

Large,hungry and angry dog?:)

Grizzly 45

I'll just leave this here.....:P

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-reject-push-to-alert-ice-when-illegal-immigrants-fail-firearm-background-checks?fbclid=IwAR00h70D-9PJ2ph8dGaP3ReEltJsPiw6bxX1qM5H9Wsq4lo-As9FpXQmJbA

Grizzly 45

Anyone "offended" that pretty much half the planet "Appropriated our Irish culture !" today...:P:P:P.... Naw!Didn't think so...

tudderone

Feisar wrote: »

There are sonic noise yokes, emit a high pitched noise we can’t hear when a cat sets off the sensor. Rosemary, cayenne pepper, dried mustard, and lavender repel cats because they don't like the odor. Failing that a mink trap and disposal. I often think cat people wouldn’t be as fond of them if they crapped in their own garden. It’s a bugbear of mine that people think it’s OK to let their cats roam all day. I wouldn’t bother saying anything because when they start disappearing you’ll be the prime suspect.

I fell out with an old bag down the road over it "Oh little tiddles is so clean, it never dirties in the garden", i said no, it does it in ours. She was not happy. Hateful bloody things. I love feeding the song birds, and last week there was a cat scaling up the tree where i have the feeders etc.

I'll try the pepper etc. I think i tried the sonic thing before and surprise surprise it didnt work.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't see much easing of the lockdown as long as we are at or above 500 cases per day.

The guards are saying people are ignoring the lockdown, by the amount of traffic on the roads, and the amount of money taken in fines for breaking the 5km rule.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not that the average American will get much of it anyway.The Dem covid relif package is so stuffed with pork barrel projects that have nothing to do with getting small businesses open again.

Biden wants to hike nearly every tax to pay for all this. Income tax, fuel taxes, Death duty, corporate taxes etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGb-NbPJZw

Cass

What, if any, laws are there surrounding the control of Cats?

Birdnuts

tudderone wrote: »

Any gardeners on here have anyway to keep cats out of your garden/flower beds ? We spent a lot of time and money putting in plants, and the crazy cat woman next doors cats have dug them all up and destroyed the place with poop.

I don't want a barney with next door, so any natural remedies to get rid of them, deter them ?

A good blast of a strong garden hose sorts that problem in my experience

riffmongous

Plant some rosemary and you won't regret it even if it doesn't help with the cats, great with spuds