Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Richard308

Fears for South Africa security guard's safety after escaping ambush https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-57040115

Rows Grower

Feisar wrote: »

I've never got the notion of "service". In the US for example it's not like someone is kicking in the nations door and folks are rallying to the flag, it may be a calling to some but that's their calling. It doesn't mean anyone else needs to "get behind the troops. For a lot of others it's a job.
Is it jingoistic notions like our own tit Pearse with his ideals such as; "The old heart of the earth needed to be warmed with the red wine of the battlefields.". Feck me, not the sort of CO I'd want. Or is it the idea that; "Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier" Or is it a hangover from a time when a warrior protected his people?

I'd agree with everything thing you say there, most soldiers I know joined because of the option of young enough retirement with a good pension. Okay they all started off on crap money too (except for one lad) but the wages used to increase as time went on and there was always the chance they might be selected to go to "The Leb" as it was known for 6 or 8 weeks and make an extra few bob.

Grizzly 45

Richard308 wrote: »

Yeah, seems like nothing but dodgers over there at the minute. John McCain now there was a noble man. And trump savaged him. “I like my heroes not to be captured”. John McCain gave up the chance of leaving the pow camp so another pow could go free. That’s what all politicians are lacking.

John"Wayne" Mc Cain.
His nickname from navy academy and flight school...
He had a smell over him from the USS Forrestal aircraft carrier incident that he was stationed on in Vietnam with a rouge missile launch from another jet into his,or from his jet, depending on who you believe
He was considered a hothead and prima donna by both his colleagues and squadron leaders and his attitude on the day of the accident has been considered part of the incident initiation. Even his attitue on the day of leaving the briefing room on the mission over Hanoi, when his flite commander told him to watch out as the NV were expecting them,was basically "FU I'll be fine"

In the Hanoi Hilton, again there is a lot of night and fog as to what happened to Mc Cain, once the North Vietnamese found out he was the son of a US admiral. Some say he got worse treatment, others say he was well looked after and even collaborated with the NV.
More odd was that when he was a senator he sponsored a bill that denied public access to any POW debriefing records on the grounds of privacy. Some think that was also to protect his own reputation and story as to what happened to him. All in all it peed off many former Nam vets who are still looking for MIAs in Vietnam as a hindrance to research.

There is no question that he was a combat vet/POW and deserves all honour and respect for such,but it has to be asked was a lot of this self-inflicted by his own hot-headedness?

Grizzly 45

Feisar wrote: »

I've never got the notion of "service". In the US for example it's not like someone is kicking in the nations door and folks are rallying to the flag, it may be a calling to some but that's their calling. It doesn't mean anyone else needs to "get behind the troops. For a lot of others it's a job.

European thinking to an American situation.:)
They see their flag, country, and patriotism differently to what we do. Just for an example the flag. Here we drag our flag thru the dirt, deface it with logos, wear it as a cape to match or leave it hanging outside govt, private and public places, and offices until it is a worn-out wether faded disgrace.
In the US by law, you must have it down by sundown at the latest, and there is a whole routine to this as well. There is no way in Hell they would it become so weather-beaten as we would ours either. Now, you might say it's just a bit of cloth, but its meaning is a lot different to the American mind than we would have to ours.
Small and different things that we find hard to understand or consider irrelevant here just show how Americans respect their troops. Barrack Obamas "Starbucks coffee salute" was considered an indignity and he would have been better off not saluting at all[as his right as Cin C . He can salute anyone or none at all] than doing something as sloppy as saluting with a coffee cup in hand.
Trump chasing after, one of the Marines' "top cover" was blown off in the wind and prop wash from Marine one and replacing it twice on the Marine Sgt was considered incredibly worthy and respectful of his role as Cin C.
That the highest-ranking officer would demean himself to do so says a lot about him in the eyes of the troops.
Unlike Ka Ma La who was more concerned about her hair being mussed boarding Airforce 2 and didn't bother saluting anyone at all.:rolleyes:

Is it jingoistic notions like our own tit Pearse with his ideals such as; "The old heart of the earth needed to be warmed with the red wine of the battlefields."

. Feck me, not the sort of CO I'd want. Or is it the idea that;

Pearse pretty much stole that from Jeffersons "The tree of liberty must on occasion be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." And just couched it in his poetic drivel.
As for Mr. Pearces&Co's military ability and CIn C role...That leaves much to be desired as none of them bar maybe, The O Rahily had any gumption of military sense or tactics. So a comparison between a leader of a sacrifical death cult in the name of nationalism and willingness to serve a country is two different buckets of fish.
.

"Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier" Or is it a hangover from a time when a warrior protected his people?[

Americans like any other nationality sign up for multiple reasons.Its not just for "mom god and apple pie".It could be you want 3 squares and education, whatever.
I know Irish lads who signed up after doing their Inter cert, and have done their 25 and are now people with at least a degree or two or masters under their belts. Something they could NEVER have achieved in Ireland coming from their backgrounds. Like thousands of other Americans from hardscrabble families be it city or country.
It's just an American thing that we don't understand in Europe.:)

Munsterlad102

Feisar wrote: »

Our own tit Pearse

Well you have that "tit" to thank for Irish freedom and independence. Had it not been for him, we'd still be part of the UK with their sh*te gun laws.

Feisar

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Well you have that "tit" to thank for Irish freedom and independence. Had it not been for him, we'd still be part of the UK with their sh*te gun laws.

No apologies for my opinion of a poet with notions that lead young men into a slaughter.

Munsterlad102

Feisar wrote: »

No apologies for my opinion of a poet with notions that lead young men into a slaughter.

6.6% casualty rate, hardly a slaughter. If you don't value the sacrifices of our forefathers, you can always revoke your citizenship.

Grizzly 45

Benn better if Mr Pearse had taken a view of Gen Patton.

"You don't win wars by dying for your country, you win them by killing some poor sonofabitch for his!"

Just amazed that the whole catastrophic tragicomedy of errors got as far as it did.:(

His sacrifice and those others has been in vain anyway.As Jim Connolly predicted we swopped "the Harp for the Crown" [and the crozier of Rome], and then for the stars of the EU Soviet. Pity we didn't take Connollys other bits of advice and held onto our guns.

Rows Grower

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Benn better if Mr Pearse had taken a view of Gen Patton.

"You don't win wars by dying for your country, you win them by killing some poor sonofabitch for his!"

Just amazed that the whole catastrophic tragicomedy of errors got as far as it did.:(

His sacrifice and those others has been in vain anyway.As Jim Connolly predicted we swopped "the Harp for the Crown" [and the crozier of Rome], and then for the stars of the EU Soviet. Pity we didn't take Connollys other bits of advice and held onto our guns.

Connolly wasn't even Irish, he could have been a spy.

tudderone

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Well you have that "tit" to thank for Irish freedom and independence. Had it not been for him, we'd still be part of the UK with their sh*te gun laws.

Independance ? Have a look at the "EU Lead ban" thread and tell us how independant we are. Instead of the house of lords we have the Eu commission, and instead of the house of commons, we have the eu parliament. We're run by directive from a foreign country, and told its for our own good, and that if we leave we couldn't survive on our own. Exactly what was said when we left the British empire.

We have absentee landlords owning huge amounts of Irish property, most of whom couldn't find Ireland on a map, screwing young people with rents, replacing lords and squires of old.

Grizzly 45

Rows Grower wrote: »

Connolly wasn't even Irish, he could have been a spy.

Dont tell me you belive in that conspiracy theory too? And Dev was also in the pay of the Brits and a plant and survived being executed because he was born in NYC and was technically a Yank?:rolleyes:

Feisar

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

6.6% casualty rate, hardly a slaughter. If you don't value the sacrifices of our forefathers, you can always revoke your citizenship.

I worded that badly on reflection. It's more the misty eyed selective revisionism that wears a bit thin.

Grizzly 45

Meantime in the elections for London Mayor. Sadiq Kahn gets voted in the 2nd term.
Are they all mad over there?:eek:

So Londoners vote for more anarchy, more cime, more shootings and stabbings, more soft-handed policing, more BLM/Antifa rabble rioting in the streets, and Islamisation of areas?

THEY DESERVE HIM AND IT!!!
The place is now a dump best avoided and if you do go there for whatever reason, I'd suggest a stab-proof Kevlar vest might be a good idea.:eek:

A real pity, as once it was a great city to live in and party, with a live and let live attitude to all and sundry even if you did get the odd copper or idiot with his "Where's the bomb Paddy? Hurr Hurr!" mindset during the troubles:rolleyes: Changed all strangely and quickly post Hungerford,then I left a year later.:(

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sadiq-khan-reelected-as-london-mayor-after-rival-runs-him-close/ar-BB1gw2ob?fbclid=IwAR04AD5gfbSlZUcrdFnC0A8zTFdvZh-d8e9c7z-prdmyvnwb0izhTAAluCE

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Meantime in the elections for London Mayor. Sadiq Kahn gets voted in the 2nd term.
Are they all mad over there?:eek:

So Londoners vote for more anarchy, more cime, more shootings and stabbings, more soft-handed policing, more BLM/Antifa rabble rioting in the streets, and Islamisation of areas?

THEY DESERVE HIM AND IT!!!
The place is now a dump best avoided and if you do go there for whatever reason, I'd suggest a stab-proof Kevlar vest might be a good idea.:eek:

A real pity, as once it was a great city to live in and party, with a live and let live attitude to all and sundry even if you did get the odd copper or idiot with his "Where's the bomb Paddy? Hurr Hurr!" mindset during the troubles:rolleyes: Changed all strangely and quickly post Hungerford,then I left a year later.:(

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sadiq-khan-reelected-as-london-mayor-after-rival-runs-him-close/ar-BB1gw2ob?fbclid=IwAR04AD5gfbSlZUcrdFnC0A8zTFdvZh-d8e9c7z-prdmyvnwb0izhTAAluCE

Yes i seen that, but a walk down any street in London, well maybe with the exceptions of Golders green, Kilburn, St.James and mayfair, all will become clear.

Munsterlad102

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

His sacrifice and those others has been in vain anyway.As Jim Connolly predicted we swopped "the Harp for the Crown" [and the crozier of Rome], and then for the stars of the EU Soviet. Pity we didn't take Connollys other bits of advice and held onto our guns.

I don't agree that their sacrifice was in vain, we did get independence after all. However I do agree with your characterization of the EU, the EEC was grand, I think the single market was a good idea. On the other hand we have the EU and it's legislative body. There are few things I hate more than this, but one of them are the spineless, treacherous politicians who sold us out to Federal Europe.

Munsterlad102

Rows Grower wrote: »

Connolly wasn't even Irish, he could have been a spy.

Born to Irish parents in Scotland, he was ethnically Irish. He wasn't born halfway around the world to foreign parents, he was born to Irish in another a Celtic Nation.

Munsterlad102

tudderone wrote: »

Independance ? Have a look at the "EU Lead ban" thread and tell us how independant we are. Instead of the house of lords we have the Eu commission, and instead of the house of commons, we have the eu parliament. We're run by directive from a foreign country, and told its for our own good, and that if we leave we couldn't survive on our own. Exactly what was said when we left the British empire.

We have absentee landlords owning huge amounts of Irish property, most of whom couldn't find Ireland on a map, screwing young people with rents, replacing lords and squires of old.

You really hit the nail on the head there Tudderone, I couldn't have put it better myself. However Pease and the Men of '16 did light the spark that resulted in our independence. Sadly our leaders don't give a damn about Ireland or her people, sure look at their inactivity when globalist conglomerates buy up houses and hike rents. They sit by idly while we are subjected to a recurring cycle of endless debt, with no place that we can truly call home.

Effectively we did switch one tyrannical foreign power from another, but there was a period when we were truly independent and free from foreign meddling. I can only hope that we realize our mistake and rectify it before it's too late and Ireland ceases to exist, as a nation and a people.

Munsterlad102

Feisar wrote: »

I worded that badly on reflection. It's more the misty eyed selective revisionism that wears a bit thin.

Maybe you did, fair enough. But I don't think I said enough about our history here to be considered revisionist, which I can assure you I am not.

tudderone

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Effectively we did switch one tyrannical foreign power from another, but there was a period when we were truly independent and free from foreign meddling. I can only hope that we realize our mistake and rectify it before it's too late and Ireland ceases to exist, as a nation and a people.

Ehh no. Remember the old slogan of the unionists ? "Home rule is Rome rule". Well it happens they were right. Nothing moved in the free state without the say so of the Catholic church. No matter what it was, housing, education, foreign investment, health, what films were on at the local odeon or what rubbish RTE put on, what they said went.

And we all know by now the catholic church were not the benign, caring organisation they wanted people to think they were.

Actually, you could make a good case for saying that the Irish have never really run their own country.

BattleCorp

The EU should return to being a trade organisation as it was originally intended instead of a de facto government for the EU.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

The EU should return to being a trade organisation as it was originally intended instead of a de facto government for the EU.

Macron in France, said recently that the covid crisis had highlighted the problems with the eu and more powers should be removed from national governments and be centralised in Brussels.

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

Macron in France, said recently that the covid crisis had highlighted the problems with the eu and more powers should be removed from national governments and be centralised in Brussels.

I don't exactly see the logic there.

There are problems in the EU so we should give the EU more power?

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

.

However Pease and the Men of '16 did light the spark that resulted in our independence.

You know what Pearse said about that ?"The torch of liberty will be drowned out in the bog of Irish indifference.!":eek:

Sadly our leaders don't give a damn about Ireland or her people, sure look at their inactivity when globalist conglomerates buy up houses and hike rents. They sit by idly while we are subjected to a recurring cycle of endless debt, with no place that we can truly call home.

Why would you expect anything else from a bunch of gombeen men and women, who are seemingly mostly primary school teachers or from the D4 set or are some little prince or princess from a dynasty of former gombeens whose claim to being leadership material is being able to "Fix da road!", or great granddy made the tae for Dev or Mick,after a hard day of shooting Auxies or some other claim to fame?:roll eyes: Th e majority are also landlords,so why would there be any reason for them to change the legislation on the property either? Simply said we have got nothing better ruling us than what was here 120 years ago. They just speak now with Irish accents.:roll eyes:

But then again, we only have ourselves to blame...We vote for this shower and if we keep voting for a 2 party system of nothing much different in their politics these days on one hand,and a bunch of escapees from the home for the bewildered which is the opposition of various hues , creeds and colours here...what can you do?But make the best choices of a horrible selection.:(

.

I can only hope that we realize our mistake and rectify it before it's too late and Ireland ceases to exist, as a nation and a people.

You'd need someone Trump-like. Very wealthy, not beholden to any party or person or institution,nor of Golden circles or Portmarnock golf club pals, or dodgy dealings,and who loves Ireland. IOW a unicorn in Irish politics,as such a person would never get to political power in Ireland from the bottom up without making dirty deals and strokes and owing and owed favours.

civdef

Ah, yes. A billionaire for the common man!


Just need to find a billionaire who managed to get into that condition without dirty deals, strokes and owing favours....

otmmyboy2

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't exactly see the logic there.

There are problems in the EU so we should give the EU more power?

Same as most government logic.

Enjoy

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

Ah, yes. A billionaire for the common man!


Just need to find a billionaire who managed to get into that condition without dirty deals, strokes and owing favours....

Elon Musk?

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't exactly see the logic there.

There are problems in the EU so we should give the EU more power?

As Drunkner and the rest said..."Evermore unification is what Europe needs to sort out its problems..." But then again the people who founded this benevolent organisation that only has all our best interests at heart only had the Central committee of the people and the Reich partei tag to monitor their utopia on:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

How to trigger the easily offended US NRA style

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2857735/nras-mothers-day-message-gun-toting-american-mom/

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't exactly see the logic there.

There are problems in the EU so we should give the EU more power?

Because you don't get any nasty, Mickey Mouse governments, who have to bother with things like pleasing their electorate, saying no to things. A central dictat is issued from Brussels and thats that.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/09/emmanuel-macron-covid-highlights-need-to-beef-up-eu-powers

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Elon Musk?

Bill Gates or George Sorearse ?