Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

And not even a gunshop to peruse, i believe the last one closed a few years ago.

Yep, none in the city centre. Plenty on the outskirts.

For example, imagine no gun shops in Dublin city centre but some in Blanch/Finglas/Sandyford etc. Same story there, gunshops but you have to travel out from the city to get to them.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

I was in San Francisco last October. Holy fcuking hell. It was like the land of the zombies in the city. The amount of homeless people with clear mental issues roaming around was unbelievable. I'm serious when I say that you couldn't go 50 ft in some streets without meeting a homeless person.

Some states are giving their homeless people bus tickets to SF to get rid of them.

We got a taxi to the train station and that taxi took us through the Tenderloin district. I wouldn't go in there with the Irish army as backup. Holy fcuk. It was mental.

Not to mind dodging the human turds on the streets,where all the homeless and junkies relive themselves in public.Which is NOT a offence courtsey of the Democrat run city council.As well as all the discarded needles as well from the free needle programme for addicts. Haight Ashbury,where the 1960s counter culture of Hippydom all started,is now apprently a utterly dangerous,drug infested lunatic run asylum.Tripadvisor reports on SF all pretty much say the same thing "****hole...Never coming back!" Even Limerick gets better Tripadvisor ratings these days:D:D:D Added to the ridiclous paperwork you need to renovate,rebuild or fresh build anything in SF or SF area,and exhorbiant rents,no wonder people are on the streets.

Oh and which US politicans are voted in all the time there?Nancy Pelosi,Dianne Feinstein,and Kamala Harris.So long as they keep pumping money into this dump, IE US taxpayer money they keep geting voted in.:( You are now on the breadline in CA if you are making LESS than 175K PA:eek: No wonder people are fleeing in droves from CA.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

N Haight Ashbury,where the 1960s counter culture of Hippydom all started,is now apprently a utterly dangerous,drug infested lunatic run asylum.

This is over 10 years ago but I was in Haight Ashbury one day. To be honest it was grand during the day. All hippy dippy shops and stuff like that. We went into a restaurant shortly before sundown and came out about two hours after sundown. It was like we went through a portal into another dimension.

Drug dealers with pitbulls the size of bears. Hookers in doorways in their underwear with a blanket over them. Junkies everywhere. It was seriously fcuked up and I've no problem admitting that I was fcuking scared in the place.

Didn't go near it last year when I was over in SF but I can't imagine that it has improved in the last 10 years given how much of a deterioration I saw in the rest of the city.

And apart from the homeless/junkies/mental illness, I was taken aback by how much the infrastructure has deteriorated too. Our roads are better than a lot of theirs.

When I was a kid we were led to believe that America was the number 1 country in the world. It's fairly far from that at the moment.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not to mind dodging the human turds on the streets,where all the homeless and junkies relive themselves in public.

I forgot about that but yeah, common sight.

And even when they aren't relieving themselves in public, I was amazed by how many of them seemed to sleep on the streets with their clothes not exactly covering their private parts.

It's sad to see people live like that.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Oh and which US politicans are voted in all the time there?Nancy Pelosi,Dianne Feinstein,and Kamala Harris.So long as they keep pumping money into this dump, IE US taxpayer money they keep geting voted in.:( You are now on the breadline in CA if you are making LESS than 175K PA:eek: No wonder people are fleeing in droves from CA.

Yes they flee in droves from CA, but wherever they land they start again with the gun-ban nonsense, you seen that in Virginia when they were trying for a the gun ban earlier in the year.

I was talking to a lad in Wyoming, he lives in the northeast, close to the border not too far from Sturgis and there were blow-ins there trying it too. As he said himself, "if thats what you want, go back to CA".

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As well as all the discarded needles as well from the free needle programme for addicts. Haight Ashbury,where the 1960s counter culture of Hippydom all started,is now apprently a utterly dangerous,drug infested lunatic run asylum.

Haight Ashbury was mainly harmless stoners when I was there. But I can't really remember being there at night either. The tenderloin sticks out as being exactly as you describe, and that's right in the city. Not far from man shopping area.

Uinseann_16

tudderone wrote: »

Yes they flee in droves from CA, but wherever they land they start again with the gun-ban nonsense, you seen that in Virginia when they were trying for a the gun ban earlier in the year.

I was talking to a lad in Wyoming, he lives in the northeast, close to the border not too far from Sturgis and there were blow-ins there trying it too. As he said himself, "if thats what you want, go back to CA".

Austin Texas is going the same way
Its a bit like the migrants coming to Europe... Youre leaving your country because its a sh*thole dont try to make the new country (or state) like the sh*thole you're leaving
Simples :pac:

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

Haight Ashbury was mainly harmless stoners when I was there. But I can't really remember being there at night either. The tenderloin sticks out as being exactly as you describe, and that's right in the city. Not far from man shopping area.

.

Was the same way when I was there last.Stoners and great grandkids of the 1st hippy gen trying to be like their grandparents in "69":P Harmless mostly.But there was already an ugly undertone coming in of hard core drugs and dealing.

Grizzly 45

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Austin Texas is going the same way
Its a bit like the migrants coming to Europe... Youre leaving your country because its a sh*thole dont try to make the new country (or state) like the sh*thole you're leaving
Simples :pac:

Add Heuston to that list too.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.

Was the same way when I was there last.Stoners and great grandkids of the 1st hippy gen trying to be like their grandparents in "69":P Harmless mostly.But there was already an ugly undertone coming in of hard core drugs and dealing.

A bit like Dublin so, i never seen any open drug peddling here near where i live. The lockdown lands and little scrotum sets up business in a laneway near me doing a roaring trade. He was caught. But in the city centre i see it all the time.

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

This is only foreplay. The second wave hasn't hit properly yet. Wait until the Winter.

I'm in no way qualified to speak on the subject, but i can think and what is happening lately has me scratching my head.

We're going to keep getting spikes after every lockdown. I don't know the answers but it seems like those in charge don't either, and before anyone says it, i know its an evolving situation but these "leaders" have experts on the payroll and the W.H.O. (apparently an expert organisation) giving them information and they cannot get it right.

I keep hearing stories about Sweden and their no lockdown policy which had the same or even better net result. Then there are other countries that could not or did not bother with a lockdown and they're suffering.

So what to do?

In the papers today it even said how Ministers and TDs are at war with other parties and each other because they are themselves confused as to the exact limitations and restrictions that are in place with one TD saying one thing and then the Minister or another TD contradicting them. It got so heated names were called and threats made the Dáil.

You have three counties on full lockdown even though 97% of the cases were in Offaly and Kildare. You have meat companies still working away even though they were the epicentres of the spikes yet restaurants, churches, sporting events, pubs, etc. are all shut down or seriously curtailed.

This has lead to massive unemployment with jobs gone forever, people going further into debt as the Government cannot keep up with or ay for the restrictions they are forcing on people and this will lead to another recession even though we have not even got 10% through paying for the last one (42% of which is not even our debt).

My point is we're told you can have 50 people, indoors, at a wedding but anymore than 15 lads on a range the size of 10 football pitches is somehow dangerous. We're told to wear masks but other countries are saying don't (and i don't mean the biased presses, but actual Ministers of various countries).

As i said above every lockdown will result in a spike after it no matter how careful, but as i said on another thread i would like more information. I believed, and Leo later confirmed, the numbers we were being given we overestimated, essentially false.

How about giving us actual data. We get the infected numbers and the deaths from those (which cannot be believed by the Minister's own words) but how about:

• Those that test positive but are asymptomatic,
• The actual test numbers (they promised 15,000 a week but are not doing 12,000 a MONTH),
• Those infected, with symptoms, but made full recoveries,
• The breakdown of the ages of those infected
• The yearly death rate per month/annum this year compared to other years

Things like that. Some might see it as meaningless, tohers won't care either way, but the constant fear we are being fed in the media will eventually turn on them. People are not taking this second lockdown well and if after it there is another spike and another lockdown i personally don't see people accepting it at all.

Cass

By the way one final "what the f**k" comment(s).

Where do these "experts" get their information, ideas and restrictions from? We;re told 50 in a room, yet last night over 80 previous and current TDs, Senators and Ministers sat down for a meal and drinks. Less than 24 hours after restrictions were imposed.

Their excuse!

It was planned. IOW piss off peasants.

Now the more serious point. Why do the restrictions of the various countries differ so much? Surely if this disease is to be eradicated then the amount of people gathering (indoors or outdoor), the number of people in houses, those in shops, in pubs, in restaurants, in schools, in work, etc. should all be the same. How is it (and these are pure made up numbers, but used to highlight the differences) that its only 6 per table. Why is it not 5 or 7 and why does that extar one make a difference?

Why then does the UK allow more/less? Are they being overly or under cautious? Why does Scotland/NI, Wales, and most of Europe not have a common set of numbers to work from? This is not about population size because we're talking about intimate settings of homes, social functions and workplaces that have by there very design limited spacing so the population fo the country is irrelevant to a degree.

Just some food for thought.

Grizzly 45

Looks like the Big Apple has gone completely rotten as well:(:(:(
What have all these cities got in common ?D.E.M.O.C.R.A.T. run for many years...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVDWbQtbN7U

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Looks like the Big Apple has gone completely rotten as well:(:(:(
What have all these cities got in common ?D.E.M.O.C.R.A.T. run for many years...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVDWbQtbN7U

I remember an uncle of mine went to NYC back in the early 80's for a few weeks holiday and thought he'd never get out of it alive. A lad i worked with was the same, he finished a tour of America and ended it in New York, said he was never so afraid anywhere, It was like Mogadishu, but with english speakers.

tudderone

Only a small amount allowed at funerals and things like that, yet i was in a shopping centre in Dublin the other day and the place was black. Gangs of school kids meeting up, the first thing they do ? Hugs all round.

Grizzly 45

Pretty much lived with my ol man from 82/84 in NYC/NJ.And literally ON the streets of NYC for 2 weeks when he died in Summer 84!!
It was bad then. But it had nothing like this utterly crazy bad of 2020!!! Even in the 80s when parts of NYC were literally "Fort Apache" The Bronx,the Bowery, Hells kitchen... Broadway, and 5th Ave was still open for business,it could still bounce back...COVID and this utter mishandling and the way we do business in the last 6 months since then...I don't think so.:(

Grizzly 45

Ah! You see Cass it's this cunning COVID virus!
It knows not to attack you if you are having a substantial meal costing more than 9 euro with your pint. And it's lethal if you dare to be on the premises one SECOND after 11:30 closing.
Its so leathl that you need a medical test to see if you have it,but you might not,but could be spreading it,but you could be immune to it,but maybe not for a long time either.It may or may not kill you and is not really dngerous to kids,but we will therefore tear classrooms and schools apart,and demand our kids attend class in NBC suits while keeping at all times 2meters apart.

So dangerous that if it is in a lab,you need to wear a positive pressure airsuit to handle it,but you are grand with a bit of an ol Tshirtwhen you are out and about,or a cheaply made mask from a sweatshop in China or India,that has been dumped on the floor by the kids working in the sewatshop to make thier quota and packed by street urchins being paid a rupee a day to pack boxes, and havent washed their hands in a week,because of water droughts.So there is a good chance of getting TB from the mask instead,or some other disease off a floor from India or China.

It is also a "woke" virus that wont attack mobs of howling BLM/ANTIFA protestors protesting about the death of a violent thug in America,or while wrecking and looting major US cities.But is utterly leathl to anyone or group wanting to go about their normal busisness or pleasures or religious duties.

Could go on,but I and anyone else here with a bit of a brain ,is starting to wonder Who do they think they are fooling anymore?

BattleCorp

Here's my two cents on the matter.

Pubs.
The Government don't want the pubs open, any pubs. Not even the ones serving the food. And while I feel sorry for people who earn their livelihood from a pub (like I used to), people don't/can't socially distance with a few drinks in them. I'm including myself in that statement by the way.

The Government wanted the restaurants open, and they couldn't open them without opening the food serving pubs (as technically they can claim to be restaurants) so the food serving pubs got to reopen on a technicality. Absolutely nothing to do with the risks being lessened because someone is having a meal with their few scoops.

The pub closing time is relevant. Less chance of catching the virus if the place is empty at 23.30 than there is if it is heaving a few hours later at 2.30am. Less exposure time means a lesser risk.

Indoor Gatherings/Transport
The Government should have just introduced a number that they thought was safe. They shouldn't have made exemptions for weddings etc. Pick a number and stick to it, that's what they should have done. Again, if the Government did that, I would feel sorry for those who had weddings planned but so be it.

Any TD or Minister who breached those indoor capacity limits a day or two after they were introduced should face some serious sanction. It's a bit rich telling the peasants not to socialise but then they go and act the bo11ix themselves.

Outdoor Events
I couldn't understand the old requirement that you could only drive 5km to a sporting event. You are just as safe driving 4km to your shooting range in the car on your own as you are driving 40km to your shooting range in the car on your own.

I'm happy with limits on outdoor activities as long as they are sensible. The current limits aren't very sensible. And I also think all outdoor activities shouldn't be treated the same. There's very little risk in shooting on a range or playing a game of golf where people can easily socially distance. Not quite the same as being in a rugby scrum with 15 other people.

Schools and School Transport
There has been too much flip-flopping by the Government regarding schools and school transport. Up to a few days ago, we had to have social distancing on public transport but the plan was to carry on having school kids packed to the rafters on a school bus. The Government have backtracked and now said there will be social distancing on school busses. I'd love to know how they will achieve that seeing as the school bus system is creaking at the seams and many parents can't get spots on the bus for their kids.

The plans for the schools aren't very clear either. Will there be social distancing etc.? How will it be managed. But my biggest concern is what will happen if little Johnny comes into school coughing and spluttering? Is it a common cold or is it COVID-19? The school can't take the chance. Do they isolate him? Do they send him home? Do they send the rest of the class home on a 14 day isolation? What happens if the teacher is sick? Who looks after the class then? So many difficulties.

Individual County Restrictions
Unpopular as this will make me, I think this mightn't be a bad idea as it might help keep the groups of infections localised. Easier to deal with localised infections. I do wonder about their criteria though. Laois seems to have been unfairly included in the three county lockdown.

Face Coverings
Face coverings should have been mandatory from April. But supplies were low so they didn't insist on it because they wanted enough supplies for the hospitals etc.

Face visors aren't really worth a damn in helping to stop asymptomatic people from spreading the virus. Masks do the job much better.

And requiring people to wear face coverings in shops but not requiring them to wear them in post offices, banks and credit unions seems silly to me. Especially post offices where you are likely to find the section of society who are most at risk.

What to do going forward.
If you boil it down, we have two choices when it comes to the virus. Do we do our best to control the virus or do we just let it rip through everyone and get it over and done with? Let it kill who it kills and the rest will get on with life? Many people are of the view that it kills the weak and they were going to die anyway.

But here's the thing, if we let it rip and get it over and done with, we don't know if it's over and done with. We don't know for sure if people who survive it get some sort of immunity nor for how long. So if we let it rip through us, killing who it is going to kill, will it come back and do the same thing next winter etc or will it just affect us like a common cold?

And the jury is also out regarding the long term effects on people who survive it. Many are reporting symptoms over 3 months later, especially in those who were hospitalised.

I'm on the side of trying to control the virus until we have a medical solution. Yes, there is a very big economic cost to that, and there are other consequences too such as suicide and other medical issues that aren't being dealt with.

Thankfully it's not my decision whether to fight/control the virus or go for herd immunity as whatever decision is made, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

jb88

The wearing of masks in the banks is kind of funny, I had to make 3 international bank transfers for guns recently

I just walked in wearing a normal face mask, the bank manager was straight out following me around staring at me like I was about to rob the place, it could have been my big coat because it was raining. "Maybe he recognised me".

I had to laugh. I was a bit pissed off because an RFD hadnt sent me the correct IBAN and I was trying to ring him while giving out about the bad GUI on the AIB Bank transfer machine.

There really are sheeple at all levels in our society, the poor bank manager looked worried... if he only knew. Alot of the time its just best to stay quiet and not to risk scaring the sheep.


I didnt want to ask for help because I prefer finding a solution myself as is my way for most things and that conversation with the bank manager could have lead down a whole different route.

Got everything resolved in 10 min and a phone call in the bank and completed my business and left. I think he wasnt there the second and third times I went in to put through more transfers for guns.

BattleCorp

jb88 wrote: »

I just walked in wearing a normal face mask, the bank manager was straight out following me around staring at me like I was about to rob the place

You do look like a dodgy cnut to be fair. :pac::pac::pac:

Grizzly 45

The mask thing is an utter joke.
Ask and there are enough vids of people who wear these as a professional requirement in a day to day requirement in the medical profession saying these are next to useless, and even explaining as to how they came about being worn in theatres.Which are sterile enviroments anyway.
The only one they recommend is the N10, that costs 30 euros a go and is one use only, that you need training on using too... Now Fauci is saying that you need eye protection as well,and it can live in your ears...So why not go the whole hog and demand a ful face NBC respirator?Which wont protect anyone if you have the virus,as there is no exhale filter to catch the virus as you exhale.

Wearing a bit of cloth,even 3 layers is like putting up chainlink to stop mosquietoes.You need nanometer weaves not milimeter weaves of cotton.Nor is it helping you if you have it,as you are now rebreathing your virus load from the cotton in a nice warm enviroment,along with traces of whatever detergent you washed this thing out with.

People dont wear them properly,they fiddle with them and then touch whatever with their bacteria load.
My take on it,wear one if it makes you feel safer,because it is a placebo outside a sterile enviroment,but dont force it as a social control tool,and consider this.....
People have been wearing these in meat packing plants for years now at least in Germany they have....Strange then that the meat packing plants are the ones with the biggest COVID cases in Germany and here now???

tudderone

The masks are not to stop you getting the virus, they are to stop you unknowingly exhaling the virus. I was looking at masks in Lidl (i only shop in the swanky places) and they have a lot of masks on sale. Each mask has a disclaimer saying "This mask is not for medical use" or something along those lines, so what use are they ?

Cass

@ Battlecorp.

This situation is one of those rare ones where i am looking for less, but better, information. As it stands we get too much information and the majority of it is contradictory or simply confusing. As i said above even TDs/Ministers are giving contradictory information and they are the ones pushing it.

I wear a mask when in a shop. Because its required and i'm not in form for arguing with someone at a door who is only trying to enforce the rule, but also to protect my elderly parents as i'm acting as their caregiver since March. I do this regardless of my personal opinions on the whole situation because i don't have the luxury of "taking a stand".

Its "funny" you name the events above as i've heard some odd but somewhat plausible theories on the same topics. Like Pubs. A representative from the HSE and the Vintners association on the radio about three weeks ago both said something similar. That the Government don't want Pubs to reopen due to the cost of issues related to drinking (health cots, Gardaí, etc).

The outdoor events thing absolutely baffles me. I can understand some aspects like concerts where thousands of people are standing shoulder to shoulder, but football matches, shooting ranges (most of them), Golf, etc, can all be safely played while observing social distancing with numbers far greater than 15 and if necessary it can be left up to each individual sporting facility to regulate the numbers. I mean the MNSCI would hold ten times more people safely than most any other range. So while i agree that allowing the MNSCI to open and keeping the others shut is unfair you could have 200 in the Midlands and say 50 in HH, and 30 in An Roicht (by the way i'm not making any sort of "dig", just plucking numbers out of my ass to highlight a point).

Lastly the virus itself. I simply don't know. However i can see what has happened and what is happening but its not working.

Masks. If they are so successful then why not make them mandatory back in March or April as you said? Why take any sort of a chance with "you must wear them, no you don't, yes you do"?

At the risk of repeating myself, how did they come up with the numbers. They seem so arbitrary as to be utterly made up. No scientific or even common sense approach to how these numbers were arrived at.

I'm not suggesting a Swedish approach because again i don't have enough information nor am i qualified to make such an important decision based on that information, however i can make an educated guess on what i believe/have seen.

After every lockdown we will have a spike. Its going to happen and if we go back into lockdown after each lifting we'll be at it for years. You mention a monetary consequence for this, but in my opinion it's too much. This disease has not had the same death rate as others, but it has caused a global recession and regardless of whether it ends within a month, 6 months, or 6 years it will end. However where will people be by then?

The Government cannot afford to keep paying people to stay away from work. As jobs are lost, forever, more and more people slip into debt, and with the Governments recent eviction Act it makes it easier for Vulture funds and banks to repossess a home. With less people working and relying on state support it means increased taxation on those working which will only go on for so long as we veer towards an increased socialised society. How long do you think people will continue to work knowing they are essentially paying for those not working?

I know, i'm sounding a little "out there", but its not such a reach.

How many hospitals are full at present? Of the 176 initial cases in Kildare, Offaly and Laois only 5 were in Laois, 61 in Offaly and 110 in Kildare yet Laois was locked down too. Why? Wexford, Waterford and Tipperary have had higher cases and are still open, as are the meat plants where the majority of these originated from, but you cannot go to the range.

My point relates back to numbers and admissions. Of the 5 in Laois how many were asymptomatic, how many needed care, how many were hospitalized, and how many died? Same goes for Kildare and Offaly?

This relates back to my question on hospital numbers. The Government rented private hospitals and facilities at a reported cost of €115 MILLION per month. How many were used either at all or to capacity? How many are still being used or even needed?

What about HSE facilities/hospitals? Same questions as above. With all these reported new cases how many are used either at all or to capacity? How many are still being used or even needed? Are ICUs full or empty?

I'm not dismissing the seriousness of this disease nor am i making light of those that have died, but when the previous Taoiseach admitted that numbers were drastically inflated (by almost 40%) and still the numbers are being manipulated you have to ask yourself are we getting the truth or the whole truth.

As for the elderly, the HSE was under fire over the last 5 years for the scarily high number of deaths in HSE nursing homes and care facilities with an average of 700 dying per year, each year. This was before the Chinese virus.

I only ask all these questions fro one specific reason. Would something like a complete lockdown of the most vulnerable for say 3 months and then a complete esaing of all restrictions be a better way to go. To use a horribly overly simplistic description of it, rip the plaster off while protecting those that need it.

I don't know, i really don't. I'm rambling now at this point and i dread to think of the size of this post. So apologies for that.

Cass

tudderone wrote: »

Each mask has a disclaimer saying "This mask is not for medical use" or something along those lines, so what use are they ?

It says it on the side of the boxes of them, and Ministers of Health in Australia and other countries have said that masks are more harmful that good.

So again who do you believe?

I realise this is academic as the mandatory rule is still in effect here.

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

It says it on the side of the boxes of them, and Ministers of Health in Australia and other countries have said that masks are more harmful that good.

So again who do you believe?

I realise this is academic as the mandatory rule is still in effect here.

Yes, i wear one regardless.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

Like Pubs. A representative from the HSE and the Vintners association on the radio about three weeks ago both said something similar. That the Government don't want Pubs to reopen due to the cost of issues related to drinking (health cots, Gardaí, etc).

Obviously this is only my opinion but I don't think they want to keep the pubs closed because of health costs, garda costs etc. I actually do think they realise that drunk people can't/won't socially distance and having the pubs open would increase the spread of the virus.

The outdoor events thing absolutely baffles me.

Agreed. Some of the measures don't seem to be based on logic.

Masks. If they are so successful then why not make them mandatory back in March or April as you said? Why take any sort of a chance with "you must wear them, no you don't, yes you do"?

Like I said earlier, back in March/April there was a worldwide shortage of masks. There wasn't enough face masks for the medical profession let alone the general public so they prioritised the medical profession. Now there are enough masks for every Joe Soap.

I know there is conflicting evidence but it does look like wearing a face covering is somewhat of a help. It's not the be-all and end-all of protective measures, but it makes sense to me. Am I wrong, who knows.

After every lockdown we will have a spike. Its going to happen and if we go back into lockdown after each lifting we'll be at it for years. You mention a monetary consequence for this, but in my opinion it's too much. This disease has not had the same death rate as others, but it has caused a global recession and regardless of whether it ends within a month, 6 months, or 6 years it will end. However where will people be by then?

It's going to be a disaster for the world economy and we'll still be digging our way out of a recession in four or five years time. But what's the alternative? There's going to be the mother of all recessions even if we open up fully tomorrow.

Do you think that we should throw caution to the wind and we'll see how we get on? You are a caregiver to your elderly parents, how would they fare off if we abandoned the measures and opened up with no restrictions? I'm not cutting at you by the way, I'm just pointing out that we either keep going with what we have or we abandon it. There are consequences eitherways.

The Government cannot afford to keep paying people to stay away from work. As jobs are lost, forever,

Absolutely true.

And again you are right, the taxpayer is going to be shafted rough, and without lube too.

Laois only 5 were in Laois,

Agreed, Laois shouldn't have been locked down.

The Government rented private hospitals and facilities at a reported cost of €115 MILLION per month. How many were used either at all or to capacity? How many are still being used or even needed?

Far from a fan of the current (or any) Government but I'll give them the doubt on this one. Nobody knew how bad the virus was going to get so you can't really blame the Government for preparing for the worst and buying up capacity. Lucky for us we didn't need it as we didn't get New York style numbers.

Would something like a complete lockdown of the most vulnerable for say 3 months and then a complete esaing of all restrictions be a better way to go. To use a horribly overly simplistic description of it, rip the plaster off while protecting those that need it.

The problem with that is that many of the vulnerable live in houses with the rest of us. Granny and Grandad don't stir out but BattleCorp and Cass do and bring it home to Granny and Grandad.

And then we don't know the long term consequences of the virus on Cass and BattleCorp even though they are likely to survive it. You might survive it, but not be able to work for yonks etc. There are an awful lot of unknowns.

I'm kind of hoping that we do the restrictions for another few months and then a vaccine comes along. But then again, it might be a virus that we can't get a vaccine for.

I am aware that some of my post is coming across along the lines of 'Won't someone please think of the children' so apologies for that.

Like I said earlier, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

Obviously this is only my opinion but I don't think they want to keep the pubs closed because of health costs, garda costs etc. I actually do think they realise that drunk people can't/won't socially distance and having the pubs open would increase the spread of the virus.

I don't know, as said its not my words. I heard it on an interview with Matt Cooper.

Like I said earlier, back in March/April there was a worldwide shortage of masks. There wasn't enough face masks for the medical profession let alone the general public so they prioritised the medical profession. Now there are enough masks for every Joe Soap.

The issue i have here, and this is just a "rub me the wrong way" thing, is they lied to us about a shortage while they funneled the N95 masks to the staff that needed. Now while i agree with the reason for doing it i don't like the lying it took to make it happen.

Also the N95 cannot now, or then, be bought. People are not using the effective N95 but the ones that say on the box they won't protect you or a pair of old jeans and some sewing skills that turn it into a mask. IOW not effective.

I know there is conflicting evidence but it does look like wearing a face covering is somewhat of a help. It's not the be-all and end-all of protective measures, but it makes sense to me. Am I wrong, who knows.

Again conflicting reports. Its a known fact few masks bar the N95 work fully. The other lesser masks are said not to work, but reduce the droplets, but then others say the virus is so small that the lesser masks will not protect you if it lands on the mask and will actually cause more harm as it will reside on the mask giving more time for inhalation.

Not a doctor so don't know, but i'd rather have a proper mask than one that says "this doesn't work" on the box.

It's going to be a disaster for the world economy and we'll still be digging our way out of a recession in four or five years time. But what's the alternative? There's going to be the mother of all recessions even if we open up fully tomorrow.

The quicker we open the less damage is done. Look at the UK, M&S, Electricty supplier, and about ten other companies are laying off staff at the rate of thousands if not tens of thousands. On SKY news this morning. If businesses can open back up again this stops, or is reduced at least.

Also any recession will last for decades as the 2008 crash is still being paid for and will be for another 50 years. We cannot afford another crash on top of that.

Do you think that we should throw caution to the wind and we'll see how we get on?

Nope, but seeing as how caution is not working why not try something else.

You are a caregiver to your elderly parents, how would they fare off if we abandoned the measures and opened up with no restrictions? I'm not cutting at you by the way, I'm just pointing out that we either keep going with what we have or we abandon it.

As below/above i didn't say no restrictions, just a variation of them.

There are consequences eitherways.

Agreed, but repeating the same mistakes is not a solution.

Far from a fan of the current (or any) Government but I'll give them the doubt on this one. Nobody knew how bad the virus was going to get so you can't really blame the Government for preparing for the worst and buying up capacity. Lucky for us we didn't need it as we didn't get New York style numbers.

I'm not complaining about the price they pay for being prepared, but that is HALF A BILLION Euro that taxpayers will now have to foot on top of the losses of jobs and the increase in social welfare payments.

At the same time cancer patients (my uncle and aunt are in this boat) and others that require medical sometimes life saving, treatment have been refused treatment and had appointments cancelled and postponed (seemingly indefinitely) because of the lack of places to receive treatment based on a crisis that was not as bad as forecast and remains wholly less than what was expected.

It was in the papers with Doctors complaining about not being able to resume their normal duties and essentially sitting idle waiting for a flood that never happened. i'm only going on reported facts in the papers and media.

The problem with that is that many of the vulnerable live in houses with the rest of us. Granny and Grandad don't stir out but BattleCorp and Cass do and bring it home to Granny and Grandad.

But that is happening now. I have to go out, i have to shop for them, bank for them, run errands, etc. and still return to their house. Its why i wear the mask, for their sake. However what about those who don't have someone to rely on? Home alone, or worse still in the care homes/nursing homes which already have a disastrous record of deaths before the Chinese virus.

And then we don't know the long term consequences of the virus on Cass and BattleCorp even though they are likely to survive it. You might survive it, but not be able to work for yonks etc. There are an awful lot of unknowns.

Hence the 3 months (and it's only a random number like the Government are doling out). If it takes 6 months or a year so be it, but the most vulnerable will be protected the whole time.

I'm kind of hoping that we do the restrictions for another few months and then a vaccine comes along. But then again, it might be a virus that we can't get a vaccine for.

The flu has a higher "kill rate" (excuse the lack of compassion) than Covid and there is a flu vaccine out there.

I am aware that some of my post is coming across along the lines of 'Won't someone please think of the children' so apologies for that.

Glad you said it before me

Like I said earlier, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Well we've already been damned for doing, how about trying damned for not?

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

Again conflicting reports. Its a known fact few masks bar the N95 work fully. The other lesser masks are said not to work, but reduce the droplets, but then others say the virus is so small that the lesser masks will not protect you if it lands on the mask and will actually cause more harm as it will reside on the mask giving more time for inhalation.

I'll be sacked for being on Boards so much today when I am supposed to be working.

I think the wearing of masks is more intended to protect others rather than to protect the wearer. The mask helps prevent the spread of droplets so if you are infected, you have less of a chance of spreading the droplets to other people as the vast majority of your respiratory droplets are contained within the mask.

Cass

I understand the party line on masks, however i question the effectiveness of a mask that by the manufacturers own admission will not and does not protect against corona viruses (flu, colds, covid, etc).

It may have a limited function against regular breathing causing transmission but do they protect against someone that sneezes, coughs, etc. IOW we don't know how effective or ineffective they truly are. We also don't know the long term effects of wearing masks. Speaking for myself only i've found that within 10 to 15 minutes of wearing it i'm getting a headache which intensifies the longer i wear it. Now i have to take a headache tablet before going out knowing i'll be wearing one. I don't have the luxury of not wearing one like others with underlying conditions that prevent them from wearing it.

Might seem pedantic but considering the supposed seriousness of this virus these issues matter because i use a non N95 type mask (its all i could order/get) and if this doesn't in fact protect me and i contract the virus then bring it home which in turn infects the very people i was trying to protect, then its another case of being lied to by the Government, having ineffective and essentially aesthetic attempts at controlling the virus which is dangerous and dare i say criminal.

Cass

Also if your boss gives you any grief just tell him you were dealing with important issues like talking sh*te on Boards.