Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp

Xtrail14 wrote: »

Why do the Garda correspondence letter application refer to a firearm as a weapon?
They call it a fire arm licence application and it’s a weapon I have applied for, their words not mine. Maybe reading too much into this.

It's like when I was a teenager and everyone in the media North of the border never called Sinn Fein 'Sinn Fein'. They were always called 'Sinn Fein/IRA'. All simply to cast them in a bad light. Same thing with the wording on the FAC1 form.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's like when I was a teenager and everyone in the media North of the border never called Sinn Fein 'Sinn Fein'. They were always called 'Sinn Fein/IRA'. All simply to cast them in a bad light. Same thing with the wording on the FAC1 form.

Yeah, thats bizarre those two groups had nothing to do with each other :rolleyes:

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

Yeah, thats bizarre those two groups had nothing to do with each other :rolleyes:

Others would make the same argument for firearms/weapons.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

Others would make the same argument for firearms/weapons.

Depends how its used, a shotgun used for clays or game is a sporting firearm. The same thing used by the police or military is a weapon. Its semantics, if anyone non-garda calls guns weapons i correct them, but its probably ingrained in the gardai in Templemore.

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

Depends how its used, a shotgun used for clays or game is a sporting firearm. The same thing used by the police or military is a weapon. Its semantics, if anyone non-garda calls guns weapons i correct them, but its probably ingrained in the gardai in Templemore.

And it's these semantics that are being used against us to try paint us in a bad light.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

And it's these semantics that are being used against us to try paint us in a bad light.

We're in a bad light, feck all we can do about it.

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

We're in a bad light, feck all we can do about it.

We can keep correcting those who err and try to paint our sport in a positive light.

Grizzly 45

Our much loved/hated and quite absent these days Mod Sparks did a nice job on getting this point over to a Dail committee in early 2016 in person. Much to the Ire of the Shin Fein residents there of.:)

tudderone

Under 18's banned from shooting airguns unsupervised in England. Too many instances of improper use.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8982521/Under-18s-BANNED-shooting-air-guns-without-adult-new-plans.html

Grizzly 45

More cheery UK news .Home office coming back for another pound of flesh on the 50 cals and others.
So after throwing MARS to the wolves,The Westminister wolves are still hungry...
Sure send in submissions, its just a gesture exercise at this stage I belive to give a pretext of consultation with the peasants,but it's already decided on by the men with funny handshakes that infest the UK corridors of power.:(:(

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-safety?fbclid=IwAR0nMwhgNuT6gPOnzuaQvh34TAoXOwlSNsweD4-vdK8gvXBAyLSFMaziBog

tudderone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDkWCX8lwM

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

More cheery UK news .Home office coming back for another pound of flesh on the 50 cals and others.
So after throwing MARS to the wolves,The Westminister wolves are still hungry...
Sure send in submissions, its just a gesture exercise at this stage I belive to give a pretext of consultation with the peasants,but it's already decided on by the men with funny handshakes that infest the UK corridors of power.:(:(

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-safety?fbclid=IwAR0nMwhgNuT6gPOnzuaQvh34TAoXOwlSNsweD4-vdK8gvXBAyLSFMaziBog

Its not just the UK though, its everywhere. I don't know if you watched the video i posted in the lead ban thread earlier. The BASC threw the shooters under the bus regards lead shot last year, but have been campaigning behind the scenes for over 10 years to get lead gone. Including writing very dubious reports on the matter. Who paid for the reports ? The united nations environment programme (UNEP).

Personally i think democracy is just a facade at this stage. The unelected of the UN, EU commission and the Bilderberger set run things now.

Munsterlad102

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

More cheery UK news .Home office coming back for another pound of flesh on the 50 cals and others.
So after throwing MARS to the wolves,The Westminister wolves are still hungry...
Sure send in submissions, its just a gesture exercise at this stage I belive to give a pretext of consultation with the peasants,but it's already decided on by the men with funny handshakes that infest the UK corridors of power.:(:(

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-safety?fbclid=IwAR0nMwhgNuT6gPOnzuaQvh34TAoXOwlSNsweD4-vdK8gvXBAyLSFMaziBog

Just out of curiosity, would a MARS rifle be unrestricted in Ireland? Ignoring the “idontlikethelookofthat” argument of course. Correct me if I’m wrong, but a MARS rifle is where you pull the trigger to fire one round, then you pull it to send the bolt forward and the process repeats. If it is restricted it could be a good way to start into centrefire semi auto.

Feisar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

More cheery UK news .Home office coming back for another pound of flesh on the 50 cals and others.
So after throwing MARS to the wolves,The Westminister wolves are still hungry...
Sure send in submissions, its just a gesture exercise at this stage I belive to give a pretext of consultation with the peasants,but it's already decided on by the men with funny handshakes that infest the UK corridors of power.:(:(

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-safety?fbclid=IwAR0nMwhgNuT6gPOnzuaQvh34TAoXOwlSNsweD4-vdK8gvXBAyLSFMaziBog

Evidence shows stolen rifles are being used in crimes? Would love to see this evidence.

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, would a MARS rifle be unrestricted in Ireland? Ignoring the “idontlikethelookofthat” argument of course. Correct me if I’m wrong, but a MARS rifle is where you pull the trigger to fire one round, then you pull it to send the bolt forward and the process repeats. If it is restricted it could be a good way to start into centrefire semi auto.

It would technically be a "repeater" on the application, as that category seems to lump everything else in there,like lever action,pump action, etc.It is definitely NOT a semi-auto,as it was designed from the ground up not to have such a function abd comply with UK law on this point exactly. There is ASFIK a less scary hunting rifle made by Browning using this function.The Maral?But its stupid money apprently.

The "idontlikedelookodat now!" clause is null in this case too and is gone from the Garda guidelines as well.So it certainly is a very strong contender.
Trouble is there were only two companies making them in the UK. Southern Guns and Caledonian arms, neither were FAL designs,in your case...They were AR and CZ designs and there were a couple of Robinson arms XCR prototypes as well, All were stupid money too and are no longer being made or permitted to be made in the UK:(

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It would technically be a "repeater" on the application, as that category seems to lump everything else in there,like lever action,pump action, etc.It is definitely NOT a semi-auto,as it was designed from the ground up not to have such a function abd comply with UK law on this point exactly. There is ASFIK a less scary hunting rifle made by Browning using this function.The Maral?But its stupid money apprently.

The "idontlikedelookodat now!" clause is null in this case too and is gone from the Garda guidelines as well.So it certainly is a very strong contender.
Trouble is there were only two companies making them in the UK. Southern Guns and Caledonian arms, neither were FAL designs,in your case...They were AR and CZ designs and there were a couple of Robinson arms XCR prototypes as well, All were stupid money too and are no longer being made or permitted to be made in the UK:(

Carron Verney in France were making rifles and shotguns to get around the bans in Australia.

I wish we had someone as no BS as the lad in this video !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2FTmaKVzgA

Munsterlad102

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It would technically be a "repeater" on the application, as that category seems to lump everything else in there,like lever action,pump action, etc.It is definitely NOT a semi-auto,as it was designed from the ground up not to have such a function abd comply with UK law on this point exactly. There is ASFIK a less scary hunting rifle made by Browning using this function.The Maral?But its stupid money apprently.

The "idontlikedelookodat now!" clause is null in this case too and is gone from the Garda guidelines as well.So it certainly is a very strong contender.
Trouble is there were only two companies making them in the UK. Southern Guns and Caledonian arms, neither were FAL designs,in your case...They were AR and CZ designs and there were a couple of Robinson arms XCR prototypes as well, All were stupid money too and are no longer being made or permitted to be made in the UK:(

Very interesting, I'll definititly look into it and see if there are any ones floating around. The FAL design is something I can live without, the unrestricted license and no mag limits are enough for me. Do you know if any other companies make them or are the popular in any other countries or was it just the UK? Certainly the >£2000 might scare me off for the moment but it's something I think is really worthwhile.

Grizzly 45

It was mostly a UK thing.No one else really has a total ban on semi-autos bar UK/NI[even the Norn Ironers have figured a walkaround with "pistols"]

Surprised the Americans haven't taken it on for the states like CA, etc. Where looks and mag capacity in semis is their big thing.
Their alternatives are a pump-action type AR, and Patriot Ordinance has a straight pull design, that the Brits would consider a quaint 1st gen attempt for big money 3000 sTG. Using the charging handle as the bolt action...Really!:rolleyes:

The Robinson XCR looked very good, as it had the bolt release in the trigger guard, so it was egronomical and was still multi calibre and barrel length interchangeable.

CZ might be a point to start, they were making them for Caledonian, based on the VZ 69 design.So they might have the parts or make a limited run of them again if there was enough interest.

Schmeisser in Germany might be also a call,as thry make straight pulls for the UK market,and might be able to help?

Feisar

Never mind all that. Can Sako not bring out a .223 Varmint in lefty.

Mellor

Feisar wrote: »

Evidence shows stolen rifles are being used in crimes? Would love to see this evidence.

What else would stolen rifles be used for?
I doubt anyone stealing firearms is using them lawfully.

All stolen firearms are used in crime.
Not all firearms used in crime are stolen.

Two completely dfferent subsets. I don't think there's merit in pretending that stolen rifles are not used in crime, but rather show how minute it is in the bigger picture. But they'll present it what ever way they need to.

Feisar

Mellor wrote: »

What else would stolen rifles be used for?
I doubt anyone stealing firearms is using them lawfully.

All stolen firearms are used in crime.
Not all firearms used in crime are stolen.

Two completely dfferent subsets. I don't think there's merit in pretending that stolen rifles are not used in crime, but rather show how minute it is in the bigger picture. But they'll present it what ever way they need to.

The report refers to high muzzle energy rifles, which it does not define. High powered compared to what? I take it something around .308 and above? I just haven't heard/read about anyone being shot with a bolt action rifle.

Cass

Feisar wrote: »

The report refers to high muzzle energy rifles, which it does not define.

High muzzle energy rifles is defined under SI 622/2011 (the range si):

"High Muzzle Energy Rifle” means a rifle which produces a muzzle energy in excess of 4,500 Joules;

Now excuse me jumping in with the Irish law, i have not fully read all the latest posts so i could be referring to the Irish law when you all are talking another country.

BattleCorp

Mellor wrote: »

All stolen firearms are used in crime.

Absolutely not remotely true. Yes, some are, but not all.

It may be possible that a criminal steals a gun that they can't get ammo for. Suppose a local gobsh1te steals a .338 lapua rifle. Where do they get ammo for it? They may steal a gun that's not really very useful in carrying out a crime (e.g. a shotgun that you can saw the barrel off of is much more useful to a criminal than a 50cal barrett).

And some gun owners keep their guns disassembled and in different safes (it's a condition on 3 of my restricted firearms) so if someone broke into one of my safes, they could steal my gun but it wouldn't work for them as it would be missing a necessary part and therefore couldn't be used in a crime. Unless of course they wanted to hop someone over the head with it.

Uinseann_16

Cass wrote: »

High muzzle energy rifles is defined under SI 622/2011 (the range si):



Now excuse me jumping in with the Irish law, i have not fully read all the latest posts so i could be referring to the Irish law when you all are talking another country.

Yeah theyre talkng about the UK but it gives a good refernece point!:D

Mellor

Feisar wrote: »

The report refers to high muzzle energy rifles, which it does not define. High powered compared to what? I take it something around .308 and above? I just haven't heard/read about anyone being shot with a bolt action rifle.

I was referring to the statement in your post.
Whatever high powered is defined as has no bearing.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Absolutely not remotely true. Yes, some are, but not all.

It may be possible that a criminal steals a gun that they can't get ammo for. Suppose a local gobsh1te steals a .338 lapua rifle. Where do they get ammo for it? They may steal a gun that's not really very useful in carrying out a crime (e.g. a shotgun that you can saw the barrel off of is much more useful to a criminal than a 50cal barrett).

And some gun owners keep their guns disassembled and in different safes (it's a condition on 3 of my restricted firearms) so if someone broke into one of my safes, they could steal my gun but it wouldn't work for them as it would be missing a necessary part and therefore couldn't be used in a crime. Unless of course they wanted to hop someone over the head with it.

You are making a couple of errors here. Firstly you seem to be equating criminal offence with shooting a firearm. Not remotely the same.
You don’t need ammo to commit a crime with a firearm. A empty firearm can be sold illegally, or used to commit a robbery. The actual possession of a firearm, that is stolen, is in itself a crime. Regardless of whether or not it is ever fired.

Firearms that are stolen are done so with the sole intention of committing crime. Whether the intend crime happens occurs doesn’t change the fact that criminal activity has taken place.
Going along the line that firearms that are stolen are not done so for crime is a very bad argument.

I’m sure there are outlier cases, where it won’t technically apply. Still a bad angle imo.
Much better to show how x% of firearms crime comes from firearms that where never licensed.

Grizzly 45

Basically, this is referring to the 50 cal rifles and the like. Of which there are all about 200 people who shoot these in the UK.
Now,I somehow don't think a Boys anti-tank rifle, all 35 lbs and 5ft 2ins of it, or the like is a very suitable firearm for the local post office job on pension day.

It seems the Home office have this fear that maybe Matoub and Jamal suffering an attack of Aloha Snackbar might decide to theive such a rifle and go away and shoot up some high-value target with large cal solid rounds. Same as MARS rifles "might be " used in a mass shooting or by criminals...Despite not ONE of them ever been stolen.

So just how likely is such a scenario in real life for a terrorist?.
When do we consider what the "RA did with a few Calor gas bottles, some piping and a bit of semtex? Or the Religion of peace did in the UK with some vans and kitchen knives in the last few years?
It's a very pathetic excuse of "might happen" "criminals and terrorists"might use" them" that is part of the UK mentality to create a stronger police state with disarmed Britons.

Feisar

Cass wrote: »

High muzzle energy rifles is defined under SI 622/2011 (the range si):



Now excuse me jumping in with the Irish law, i have not fully read all the latest posts so i could be referring to the Irish law when you all are talking another country.

UK under discussion however thank you, I wasn't aware we have a definition.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Basically, this is referring to the 50 cal rifles and the like. Of which there are all about 200 people who shoot these in the UK.
Now,I somehow don't think a Boys anti-tank rifle, all 35 lbs and 5ft 2ins of it, or the like is a very suitable firearm for the local post office job on pension day.

It seems the Home office have this fear that maybe Matoub and Jamal suffering an attack of Aloha Snackbar might decide to theive such a rifle and go away and shoot up some high-value target with large cal solid rounds. Same as MARS rifles "might be " used in a mass shooting or by criminals...Despite not ONE of them ever been stolen.

So just how likely is such a scenario in real life for a terrorist?.
When do we consider what the "RA did with a few Calor gas bottles, some piping and a bit of semtex? Or the Religion of peace did in the UK with some vans and kitchen knives in the last few years?
It's a very pathetic excuse of "might happen" "criminals and terrorists"might use" them" that is part of the UK mentality to create a stronger police state with disarmed Britons.

Wait until it happens here, and it will, we'll see what happens then.

Feisar

Mellor wrote: »

I was referring to the statement in your post.
Whatever high powered is defined as has no bearing.

My comments about high powered were alluding to the buzz words one hears in the media. It's a catch all attention grabbing phrase that means nothing. Well, Cass has shown it means something however over here it is miss used.

While I agree you are totally correct about stolen rifles being involved in crime (even the possession of a stolen rifle is a crime). I think their use is a bit of a non issue.

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

Wait until it happens here, and it will, we'll see what happens then.

Doubt we'll have an attack here.
This is a nice handy spot for planning attacks against the infidels in the UK and elsewhere. They use Ireland as a safe base for recruitment, finance, planning, R&R as "Jihad Jane" and the London Bridge attacks aptly demonstrated. So it would not be in their interest to go screwing this up.

That's not to say we won't get a homegrown headbanger like Khalid Kelly who went all over Syria, rather than Sligo a few years ago!Or Sinead [Grenade]O Connor starts singing again in Islam:eek::eek: It's a possibility, but one on a Yellow to Orange threat level.