The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

De Bild

Night Falls wrote: »

The array of utter stupidity in this post is impressive.

The truth hurts Night Falls. I wouldn't expect to find you in Mensa. One liners are easy.

nozzferrahhtoo

De Bild wrote: »

Dress it up whatever way you all like.

No thanks, I will take reality as it is without distorting it like your little video link does. The simple fact is that he did not cite his figures and ALL the figures I know are completely different to what he claims them to be. By a LONG way.

So I am not the one dressing things up here.

De Bild wrote: »

Murder is Murder.

Yes it is, but "murder" has a very specific meaning. A meaning you would do well to learn before equivocating over the term.

De Bild wrote: »

A fella makes a comment that abortion will mostly be used for unplanned pregnancies and he is banned.

I am not sure who or what you are talking about here, but I can not see anyone being banned for that. Aside from abortions due to medical necessity, most abortions ARE of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. Hardly the stuff of surprise that.

So I would be very much surprised if you can find ANYONE who was banned merely for saying that. Perhaps you can find evidence of that at the same time as looking for evidence of the egregiously dishonest and wholly invented statistic the guy in your video link cited.

De Bild wrote: »

That's freedom of speech in Ireland for you!

That is something else you might do well to learn the meaning of, while you are looking up what "murder" means. Ireland is an example of a country with Free Speech. An internet forum that is privately owned however is legally very different. Free speech means you have the right to say what you want (with few limitations) but it also means that the owner of any given forum.... online or offline...... is in no way compelled to give you a platform to say it. Nothing about free speech compels them to do that.

De Bild wrote: »

The LGBT referendum also involved bullying of persons who were not in favour. If they spoke against for valid reasons they were lynched by the mob. Yet 37% of the population were against it despite all taxpayers money spent in favour and all propaganda.

Ireland and democracy.. my ar*e.

How so? That is how democracy works. And many things that democracy votes on have MUCH closer margins than 37%:64%. What margin should there be in a vote before you personally feel democracy has done it's job?

De Bild wrote: »

A child is a human after conception. End of. No other human being has the right to murder it.

Except "Human" means different things in different contexts. Biologically it is "human" at conception yes. No one on this entire thread appears to have denied that yet.

But when it comes to rights, there is more to "human" and what it means to be a human and a "person" then mere biology.... and that appears to be the bit you are missing.

De Bild wrote: »

Gay Pride marches etc do my head in. I've no problem with anyone's sexuality but at this stage the LGBT is on such a pedestal that we need STRAIGHT marches.

I have NO idea what that has to do with either this thread or the rest of your post. At this point it looks like you are posting all the filler you can to distract from the dishonesty and even outright lies your video link contained, which you can not now defend or discuss.

De Bild

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

No thanks, I will take reality as it is without distorting it like your little video link does. The simple fact is that he did not cite his figures and ALL the figures I know are completely different to what he claims them to be. By a LONG way.

So I am not the one dressing things up here.



Yes it is, but "murder" has a very specific meaning. A meaning you would do well to learn before equivocating over the term.



I am not sure who or what you are talking about here, but I can not see anyone being banned for that. Aside from abortions due to medical necessity, most abortions ARE of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. Hardly the stuff of surprise that.

So I would be very much surprised if you can find ANYONE who was banned merely for saying that. Perhaps you can find evidence of that at the same time as looking for evidence of the egregiously dishonest and wholly invented statistic the guy in your video link cited.



That is something else you might do well to learn the meaning of, while you are looking up what "murder" means. Ireland is an example of a country with Free Speech. An internet forum that is privately owned however is legally very different. Free speech means you have the right to say what you want (with few limitations) but it also means that the owner of any given forum.... online or offline...... is in no way compelled to give you a platform to say it. Nothing about free speech compels them to do that.



How so? That is how democracy works. And many things that democracy votes on have MUCH closer margins than 37%:64%. What margin should there be in a vote before you personally feel democracy has done it's job?



Except "Human" means different things in different contexts. Biologically it is "human" at conception yes. No one on this entire thread appears to have denied that yet.

But when it comes to rights, there is more to "human" and what it means to be a human and a "person" then mere biology.... and that appears to be the bit you are missing.



I have NO idea what that has to do with either this thread or the rest of your post. At this point it looks like you are posting all the filler you can to distract from the dishonesty and even outright lies your video link contained, which you can not now defend or discuss.

The video contained a few home truths at the end about people claiming ownership of another human.

Your whole post is equivocation. The murder of an unborn baby is the same as a human being of any age on humanitarian grounds.

seamus

De Bild wrote: »

Your whole post is equivocation. The murder of an unborn baby is the same as a human being of any age on humanitarian grounds.

In your opinion it is.

However, there is no law or science which you can use to back up that opinion.

nozzferrahhtoo

De Bild wrote: »

The video contained a few home truths at the end about people claiming ownership of another human.

Your whole post is equivocation. The murder of an unborn baby is the same as a human being of any age on humanitarian grounds.

I am not seeing anything in the video that was true. And I have pointed out at least one thing in the video that was wholly and blatantly an outright lie. A lie invented with a clear agenda to shock people into being against something the speaker has no actual arguments against.

As for "Your whole post is equivocation" you said it yourself "One liners are easy." So easy to dismiss my post with a one liner without addressing a single thing in it.

But no there is nothing "humanitarian" supporting your position here. If you have any interest in changing anyone's mind on abortion, rather than just perhaps hearing your own voice, then the way to do it is to establish a set of reasoning as to why we should hold moral and ethical concern for a zygote at conception. Aside from shouting the word "human" at it, you have not moved to do this.

And if conception is your issue, you might want to campaign against the MAP too, not just abortion.

ohnonotgmail

De Bild wrote: »

The video contained a few home truths at the end about people claiming ownership of another human.

Your whole post is equivocation. The murder of an unborn baby is the same as a human being of any age on humanitarian grounds.

the video contained a whole load of lies.

kylith

De Bild wrote: »

The murder of an unborn baby is the same as a human being of any age on humanitarian grounds.

IN YOUR OPINION

Why should your opinion trump my opinion that a foetus should have no 'right to life' until it is at a stage where it can exist independently of the woman carrying it?

De Bild

De Bild wrote: »

. The murder of an unborn baby is the same as a human being of any age on humanitarian grounds.

And yet the law of the land disagrees with you!
As does the United Nations human rights committee.

Jimbob1977

I wonder how many emigrants will fly in for the day

Then fly home again

I voted in favour of the SSM referendum, but I was perturbed by the amount of people who effectively commited electoral fraud.

If you haven't contributed anything to Ireland for years, you shouldn't vote

Water John

I'll need to get out my fishing rod, with all the red herrings in this pond.
Meanwhile a good clarification on abnormality diagnosis from real experts.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/obstetricians-and-gynaecologists-release-statement-to-inform-repeal-debate-1.3372248

De Bild

kylith wrote: »

IN YOUR OPINION

Why should your opinion trump my opinion that a foetus should have no 'right to life' until it is at a stage where it can exist independently of the woman carrying it?

Do you all realise you were once a 'foetus'?! A lot of you posting here would not be around only for the 8th Amendment.

The 8th Amendment protects life.

It will NOT be repealed by the Irish people. The usual minority making a lot of noise. This is not the gay marriage referendum where no life was harmed.

By the way Nosferratu, i stopped dissecting your posts when you said 34/67 was the percentage split in the Marriage Referendum.. How can you debate with a man/woman who can't count to 100?

ohnonotgmail

De Bild wrote: »

Do you all realise you were once a 'foetus'?! A lot of you posting here would not be around only for the 8th Amendment.

The 8th Amendment protects life.

It will NOT be repealed by the Irish people. The usual minority making a lot of noise. This is not the gay marriage referendum where no life was harmed.

By the way Nosferratu, i stopped dissecting your posts when you said 34/67 was the percentage split in the Marriage Referendum.. How can you debate with a man/woman who can't count to 100?

If we were aborted as a foetus why would we care?

De Bild

Again how are approx 95% of posters on here in favour of repeal when this will in no way be true of the vote?

This forum in no way represents public opinion but is dominated by a pro abortionist loud faction who drown out others.

kylith

De Bild wrote: »

Do you all realise you were once a 'foetus'?! A lot of you posting here would not be around only for the 8th Amendment.

The 8th Amendment protects life.

It will NOT be repealed by the Irish people. The usual minority making a lot of noise. This is not the gay marriage referendum where no life was harmed.

By the way Nosferratu, i stopped dissecting your posts when you said 34/67 was the percentage split in the Marriage Referendum.. How can you debate with a man/woman who can't count to 100?

Yes, I am aware that I was once a foetus. And if I had been aborted I wouldnt' know anything about it, just the same as you wouldn't know if you'd been miscarried. In fact, thinking about it now, I wouldn't have blamed either of my parents if they had decided that they couldn't afford another child in an already big family and had opted for termination.

You didn't answer my question. Why should your opinion trump my opinion? Why should your opinion, which I disagree with, get to decide what I can and can't do with my body?

De Bild

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If we were aborted as a foetus why would we care?

That's the Nihilistic argument which denies the beauty and potential of a human life.

By it's rationale it would lead to the destruction of mankind. You kill the greatest artists, musicians, scientist, spots people etc. Of course Nosferratu says you kill Hitler and Gaddaffi too. Well i believe they're are far more people who make positive contributions to mankind than negative. So i don't want them killed before they are born.

copeyhagen

bubblypop wrote: »

And yet the law of the land disagrees with you!
As does the United Nations human rights committee.

yes, but their opinion is wrong because it contradicts his.

De Bild

kylith wrote: »

Yes, I am aware that I was once a foetus. And if I had been aborted I wouldnt' know anything about it, just the same as you wouldn't know if you'd been miscarried. In fact, thinking about it now, I wouldn't have blamed either of my parents if they had decided that they couldn't afford another child in an already big family and had opted for termination.

You didn't answer my question. Why should your opinion trump my opinion? Why should your opinion, which I disagree with, get to decide what I can and can't do with my body?

Miscarriage is nature, abortion is murder.

It's not your body. It's the body of another individual inside your body. Not your body!

De Bild

I'm busy today. I don't have time to answer you all back.

Not one agreeing with me here.

Yet the vote won't be like that. This is an echo chamber of like minds. Many of those against abortion are too cowardly to speak out but they'll vote to keep the 8th. Most pro life wouldn't be bothered arguing one against 20 posters as it's impossible.

From a humanistic point of view abortion is an abhorrence to mankind. I've said my piece.

De Bild

De Bild wrote: »

Miscarriage is nature, abortion is murder.

It's not your body. It's the body of another individual inside your body. Not your body!

It's not murder though, you do know the law right?
Oh, & it IS my body. None of your or anyone else's business

De Bild

bubblypop wrote: »

It's not murder though, you do know the law right?
Oh, & it IS my body. None of your or anyone else's business

You can't do what you like with your body, you do know the law right? You can't use your body to strangle another person. You can't use your body to murder another life living in you.

baylah17

bubblypop wrote: »

De Bild wrote: »

Miscarriage is nature, abortion is murder.

It's not your body. It's the body of another individual inside your body. Not your body!

It's not murder though, you do know the law right?
Oh, & it IS my body. None of your or anyone else's business

Well said.
+100

De Bild

copeyhagen wrote: »

yes, but their opinion is wrong because it contradicts his.

Band wagon jumper!

This forum does not represent what real Irish people on the ground think!

baylah17

De Bild wrote: »

copeyhagen wrote: »

yes, but their opinion is wrong because it contradicts his.

Band wagon jumper!

This forum does not represent what real Irish people on the ground think!

Actually it does
It matches all the opinion polls
All the indicators from all political parties

uptherebels

De Bild wrote: »

I'm busy today. I don't have time to answer you all back.

Not one agreeing with me here.

Yet the vote won't be like that. This is an echo chamber of like minds. Many of those against abortion are too cowardly to speak out but they'll vote to keep the 8th. Most pro life wouldn't be bothered arguing one against 20 posters as it's impossible.

From a humanistic point of view abortion is an abhorrence to mankind. I've said my piece.

when your in the minority position you will always be outnumbered in a debate. Plenty of anti choicers in here speak. It mightn't make sense most of the time but they do try.

De Bild

baylah17 wrote: »

Well said.
+100

Your +100 means nothing. Your in an echo chamber. Wait til the vote.

My body, my body. It's not a ruptured knee ligament we're talking about, it's a HUMAN you can choose to give life to or kill.

And most of you who abort will never know true happiness having murdered a human.

uptherebels

De Bild wrote: »

Band wagon jumper!

This forum does not represent what real Irish people on the ground think!

ya its big conspiracy , you have any evidence to back up your claim?

De Bild

baylah17, bubblypop, Flying Fox, kylith, PopePalpatine, WhiteRoses

A selection of likes from one post.

There have been so many. I haven't received one but the real vote will be different.

What does that tell us? About 100 of the same old faces, same old posters, spouting their pro murderous verbal diarrohea.

YOU ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE IRISH PEOPLE!!!

De Bild

De Bild wrote: »

Your +100 means nothing. Your in an echo chamber. Wait til the vote.

My body, my body. It's not a ruptured knee ligament we're talking about, it's a HUMAN you can choose to give life to or kill.

And most of you who abort will never know true happiness having murdered a human.

You do know the 8th amendment isn't just about abortion right?

copeyhagen

Having known someone that had to travel to the UK for an abortion for medical reasons and listening to the horror story of what they had to go through, in another country, away from the majority of their family, then I totally agree that the law needs to be changed in Ireland.

and that comment above about "And most of you who abort will never know true happiness having murdered a human. " sounds like a religious nut at their finest.

De Bild

uptherebels wrote: »

ya its big conspiracy , you have any evidence to back up your claim?

Just you wait til the vote!

kylith

De Bild wrote: »

Miscarriage is nature, abortion is murder.

It's not your body. It's the body of another individual inside your body. Not your body!

Again, no answer as to why your opinion should override mine.

And it's not another individual. Not until it can function independently when disconnected from my systems. While it is totally dependent on nutrients from my bloodstream and calcium leached from my bones it is a part of my body and I get to decide if I want it there or not.

De Bild

copeyhagen wrote: »

Having known someone that had to travel to the UK for an abortion for medical reasons and listening to the horror story of what they had to go through, in another country, away from the majority of their family, then I totally agree that the law needs to be changed in Ireland.

and that comment above about "And most of you who abort will never know true happiness having murdered a human. " sounds like a religious nut at their finest.

I'm lapsed Catholic but a Humanist! Yes there are tough stories. But the greater good will be done by saving the 8th. Stop calling me names.

uptherebels

De Bild wrote: »

Just you wait til the vote!

so thats a no:rolleyes:

De Bild

uptherebels wrote: »

so thats a no:rolleyes:

Pro life marches dwarf the pro murder ones. Most people i speak to rurally and in urban areas are pro 8th. That good enough for you in Caark?

De Bild

kylith wrote: »

Again, no answer as to why your opinion should override mine.

And it's not another individual. Not until it can function independently when disconnected from my systems. While it is totally dependent on nutrients from my bloodstream and calcium leached from my bones it is a part of my body and I get to decide if I want it there or not.

Leached from your system lol!!

A baby is a parasite then?! Once the egg and sperm fuse and the genetic code is formed.

baylah17

Repealing the 8th will save lives and protect women.
It is a dangerous and oppressive piece of law that has led to pain suffering fear and even death for women in this country.

De Bild

bubblypop wrote: »

You do know the 8th amendment isn't just about abortion right?

You do know the referendum is about abortion right?

De Bild

De Bild wrote: »

Pro life marches dwarf the pro murder ones. Most people i speak to rurally and in urban areas are pro 8th. That good enough for you in Caark?

I don't believe I have ever seen a pro murder March? Where are these being held? Not surprised they have a small turn out
Most people I speak to are for repeal, so is that good enough for you?
What difference does that make?

De Bild

baylah17 wrote: »

Repealing the 8th will save lives and protect women.
It is a dangerous and oppressive piece of law that has led to pain suffering fear and even death for women in this country.

No it will lead to casual abortions.

De Bild

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe I have ever seen a pro murder March? Where are these being held? Not surprised they have a small turn out
Most people I speak to are for repeal, so is that good enough for you?
What difference does that make?

Repeal means abortion. Abortion is murder.

uptherebels

De Bild wrote: »

Pro life marches dwarf the pro murder ones. Most people i speak to rurally and in urban areas are pro 8th. That good enough for you in Caark?

you don't seem to understand what providing evidence entails

De Bild

De Bild wrote: »

You do know the referendum is about abortion right?

Oh really?
Are you sure about that? Firstly I don't believe there is any wording on any referendum they may be held yet.
Secondly, if a referendum is held, it will be to change the constitution, that is the 8th amendment to article 40.
Nothing mentions abortion

De Bild

uptherebels wrote: »

you don't seem to understand what providing evidence entails

You can't provide evidence to the contrary!!

According to this boards thread repeal the 8th (with the Avonmore Milk logo sign stolen!) will pass 99% to 1%.

Can you not see you are a clique of posters having a love in (let's hope there are no pregnancies).

De Bild

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh really?
Are you sure about that? Firstly I don't believe there is any wording on any referendum they may be held yet.
Secondly, if a referendum is held, it will be to change the constitution, that is the 8th amendment to article 40.
Nothing mentions abortion

Well i wonder why so many people are talking about the subject then and Micheal Martin came out in favour of abortion up to 12 weeks? What do you expect to happen? The 8th amendment guarantees the equal right to life of the mother and unborn. Of all the stupid comments.. What is getting rid of a foetus up to 12 weeks only abortion. Do you expect the wording to be about fluffy pink rabbits.

kylith

De Bild wrote: »

Leached from your system lol!!

A baby is a parasite then?! Once the egg and sperm fuse and the genetic code is formed.

Where do you think the foetus gets calcium from? It's taken from the mother's bones.

Technically, yes a foetus is a parasite; 'parasite' being defined as "an organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense." However, it's a parasite necessary for the continuation of the human species.

De Bild wrote: »

No it will lead to casual abortions.

I dont' think I've ever seen a description of the effects of an abortion describing it as 'casual'. "The worst period and period pain of your life," yes; 'casual' no.

uptherebels

De Bild wrote: »

You can't provide evidence to the contrary!!

According to this boards thread repeal the 8th (with the Avonmore Milk logo sign stolen!) will pass 99% to 1%.

Can you not see you are a clique of posters having a love in (let's hope there are no pregnancies).

when you make a claim the onus is on you to back it up.
I see groups of posters discussing a divisive topic.
Like i said when you are in the minority you will be outnumbered in a public discussion/debate

De Bild

kylith wrote: »

Where do you think the foetus gets calcium from? It's taken from the mother's bones.

Technically, yes a foetus is a parasite; 'parasite' being defined as "an organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense." However, it's a parasite necessary for the continuation of the human species.



I dont' think I've ever seen a description of the effects of an abortion describing it as 'casual'. "The worst period and period pain of your life," yes; 'casual' no.

Your calcium.. take a supplement. Such a selfish attitude.

If you had an abortion due to incest, rape my sincerest sympathises. If it was because of failed contraception, it wasn't convenient, i offer none.

baylah17

De Bild wrote: »

Repeal means abortion. Abortion is murder.

No, abortion is not murder.
thats a no.
An n and an o

De Bild

uptherebels wrote: »

when you make a claim the onus is on you to back it up.
I see groups of posters discussing a divisive topic.
Like i said when you are in the minority you will be outnumbered in a public discussion/debate

You know and i know that i am not in the minority suggested here. Enjoy the love in..it won't last:D

De Bild

baylah17 wrote: »

No, abortion is not murder.
thats a no.
An n and an o

It is. That's a 'Y' an 'E' and an 'S'.