The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

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wingsof daun

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

God doesn't exist.

Your moral are not the same as other people's.stop trying to make people live by your own view of life.

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

ohnonotgmail

wingsof daun wrote: »

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

the law says you cant. so your morals are irrelevant.

ohnonotgmail

Cabaal wrote: »

Nah, cutting the grass is murder.
I suppose spreading grass seed on concrete where it can't grow is like masterbating
:P

i remember that bit in the bible. Odin wasn't it?

Ave Sodalis

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote:

Giant banners of a graphic nature being displayed by the pro-life side all around the Irish Times building this lunchtime.

Great... undoubtedly displaying late term abortions and/or complete lies?

wingsof daun wrote:

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

That would be illegal...

captbarnacles

As I said before, this thread has been instructive in showing the poverty of the pro-lifers arguments which range from NIMBY to Slutshaming to 'I wouldn't exist' to this drivel:

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

The new wave of pro life posters makes me nearly miss some of the now threadbanned ones.

Guy:Incognito

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

That's the establishment's angle IMHO. The other perspective the Repeal camp.

.

And what's the establishments (made up of white people) reason for this?

Sebastian Dangerfield

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Great... undoubtedly displaying late term abortions and/or complete lies?

Yes - the one that caught my eye was a picture of a child with a beaten face alongside a picture as you describe, with a caption like "Another huge child abuse scandal on the way" or words to that effect. Did my best to avoid the others.

I was actually surprised by the age group of those holding it. All 12+ of them were of student age.

nozzferrahhtoo

wingsof daun wrote: »

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that?

It is big and honest of you to out yourself as a cannibal. Most people would keep that secret. But yes I am ok with that being your PERSONAL moral system.

But as long as you want to live in a society with us, it is not your personal morality that is important here. It is the social one. And if you want us to be ok with your morality, then you have to be ok with the fact we will lock you up for a long long time for doing what you apparently want to do.

Personal morality is mediated by social morality. And Social morality is a subjective discourse and ever changing. So you are MORE than welcome to campaign for your cannibalistic rights. You will likely need to start be explaining why your desire to eat people who also have rights, should trump and negate their rights. I doubt you will have a coherent argument to that effect.

With abortion however, given that is what this thread has come to be about, we are talking about a fetus at 12 weeks. And I am seeing no reason to consider it an entity with rights. As such, a woman's desire to terminate it is not the same as your desire to terminate a human food source.

Clair4

How much does it cost to have an abortion or is it free on the medical card

Cabaal

Clair4 wrote: »

How much does it cost to have an abortion or is it free on the medical card

Right now, in Ireland you don't pay the HSE anything, But you have to import the pills yourself and pay for them yourself.

It might cost you a 14 year prison sentence though.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Yes - the one that caught my eye was a picture of a child with a beaten face alongside a picture as you describe, with a caption like "Another huge child abuse scandal on the way" or words to that effect. Did my best to avoid the others.

I was actually surprised by the age group of those holding it. All 12+ of them were of student age.

Fcuking hell

They always wheel out the young uns for maximum visibility though, not surprising they could scrape fifteen or twenty together. That Ascough girl will be piping up again soon too I'd imagine.

Wouldn't be confident on the media calling out lies, there was a woman on the Newstalk bulletins all day peddling that "100% of Down syndrome pregnancies aborted" crap unchallenged.

kylith

Howard Tasteless Bank wrote: »

Fcuking hell

They always wheel out the young uns for maximum visibility though, not surprising they could scrape fifteen or twenty together. That Ascough girl will be piping up again soon too I'd imagine.

Students are often idealistic. I know that when I was in my teens I was vehemently anti-choice. As you get life experience your views change.

That first pregnancy scare is a real eye-opener.

captbarnacles

The Down syndrome angle is sad.

What those using that are doing (although I doubt they realise it) is seeing a person with down syndrome as a down symdrome person.

SusieBlue

kylith wrote: »

Students are often idealistic. I know that when I was in my teens I was vehemently anti-choice. As you get life experience your views change.

That first pregnancy scare is a real eye-opener.

My own situation is exactly the same.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

This really is what this referendum boils down to and what we're being asked to vote on.

"I want to get my hole at all costs even if if I have to kill a child now and again to do it."

Mod note: Mrs Shuttleworth, do not post in this thread again.

Buford T. Justice

ForestFire

captbarnacles wrote: »

As I said before, this thread has been instructive in showing the poverty of the pro-lifers arguments which range from NIMBY to Slutshaming to 'I wouldn't exist' to this drivel:



The new wave of pro life posters makes me nearly miss some of the now threadbanned ones.

But at the same time do we need multiple "stupid" post on Killing Grass, 6 Months to having a baby?

It is not very helpful to the debate to take up pedantic arguments multiple times, even when the point has be clarified.

You are not arguing about the main issue raised you are just trying to ridicule the other sides poor wording.

I am talking from someone that does not have a clear side yet, but do agree with options for "early" abortion.

Eponymous

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Giant banners of a graphic nature being displayed by the pro-life side all around the Irish Times building this lunchtime.

4 months more of this to go. Cant wait

They were at the gates of the Taoiseach's office yesterday too at lunchtime.

One of my mates who also passed them said that some of them were wearing GoPros. Can't say I noticed them myself, what with the graphic images on the posters etc., but if that is the case, you should probably be wary if you chose to confront them.

ifElseThen

Anyone know if the HSE indicated which abortion methods it will provide?

Up to 12 weeks I'd guess it would be just take this pill?

I'd vote yes for that.

The Dilation & Evacuation looks barbaric though and I'd vote no on that.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Eponymous wrote: »

They were at the gates of the Taoiseach's office yesterday too at lunchtime.

One of my mates who also passed them said that some of them were wearing GoPros. Can't say I noticed them myself, what with the graphic images on the posters etc., but if that is the case, you should probably be wary if you chose to confront them.

I was more concerned with keeping my lunch down after seeing the picture tbh

SusieBlue

ifElseThen wrote: »

Anyone know if the HSE indicated which abortion methods it will provide?

Up to 12 weeks I'd guess it would be just take this pill?

I'd vote yes for that.

The Dilation & Evacuation looks barbaric though and I'd vote no on that.

That makes no sense. They are means to the same end.

Night Falls

Eponymous wrote: »

They were at the gates of the Taoiseach's office yesterday too at lunchtime.

One of my mates who also passed them said that some of them were wearing GoPros. Can't say I noticed them myself, what with the graphic images on the posters etc., but if that is the case, you should probably be wary if you chose to confront them.

Confrontation is exactly what these people want so that they can play the victim card.

(Stating the obvious, clearly, but well, y'know)

ifElseThen

WhiteRoses wrote: »

That makes no sense. They are means to the same end.

When putting down a pet or a euthanasia case, they don't do it via surgical destruction.

The surgical method doesn't sit right with me.

So up to 12 weeks it would likely just be pills would it?

Odhinn

pleas advice wrote: »

Some people believe an unborn human has rights, is it really that hard to understand?

It is when you see some of that lots attitude towards the born, tbh.

ohnonotgmail

ifElseThen wrote: »

When putting down a pet or a euthanasia case, they don't do it via surgical destruction.

The surgical method doesn't sit right with me.

So up to 12 weeks it would likely just be pills would it?

More than likely but i'm not a doctor.

Odhinn

ifElseThen wrote: »

When putting down a pet or a euthanasia case, they don't do it via surgical destruction.

The surgical method doesn't sit right with me.

So up to 12 weeks it would likely just be pills would it?

No, there was no mention of methodology afaik.

You don't get a vote on the method. Its on repealing the 8th or keeping it.

eviltwin

ifElseThen wrote: »

When putting down a pet or a euthanasia case, they don't do it via surgical destruction.

The surgical method doesn't sit right with me.

So up to 12 weeks it would likely just be pills would it?

The pill can be used up to 12 weeks

ohnonotgmail

kylith wrote: »

Students are often idealistic. I know that when I was in my teens I was vehemently anti-choice. As you get life experience your views change.

That first pregnancy scare is a real eye-opener.

and they can have a lot of free time during the day.

January

The pill can be used up until 12 weeks gestation, some people will still need surgical abortions though.

Contrary to popular belief, the fetus is not torn limb from limb during a surgical abortion, the fetus is small enough at that point to be extracted in one piece.

Guy:Incognito

captbarnacles wrote: »

The Down syndrome angle is sad.

What those using that are doing (although I doubt they realise it) is seeing a person with down syndrome as a down symdrome person.

Strange that they didn't get one of people with downs syndrome abandoned to a home since birth , lucky to get a once a month visit from their family, or someone with a multitude of other medical problems that will serverly limit their lives and make one or both parents in to a full time carer. It's almost as if they want to pretend they don't exist and having a child with downs syndrome is 24/7 sunshine with no issues. The reality is , quite a lot of parents of people with downs syndrome aregoign to have to deal with burying their own children .

If people don't feel they can deal with the potential hardship then that's their choice.


They're going on about the high percentage of abortions among downs syndrome diagnosed pregnancies. Are they saying that 90% of the British population is pro choice (think that's the number given for terminations) . Cos it boils down to either the reality sets in once it affects you personally ( where are your Mora.s then) or they are completely delusional and claiming that being pro life prevents downs syndrome?

Akrasia

_Dara_ wrote: »

I'm living in Dublin but I've discovered that I'm actually still registered in my home county. I've decided to leave it that way, I reckon my quite conservative home county needs my repeal vote more than Dublin does. The mar ref just about passed there in 2015.

But all the votes in a referendum are just added up no matter where they're cast. It's not like there are constituencies where abortion will be legal in south dublin but unconstitutional in Kerry.

Odhinn

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Strange that they didn't get one of people with downs syndrome abandoned to a home since birth , lucky to get a once a month visit from their family, or someone with a multitude of other medical problems that will serverly limit their lives and make one or both parents in to a full time carer. It's almost as if they want to pretend they don't exist and having a child with downs syndrome is 24/7 sunshine with no issues. The reality is , quite a lot of parents of people with downs syndrome aregoign to have to deal with burying their own children .
..........

It's entirely consistent with the mentality of a lot of them though. It's all 'lovely babies', and ignores the sheer horror of unwanted childrens lives through the decades (nor is that a uniquely irish phenomena), particularily at the hands of their moral advisers of choice. Putting down syndrome children up there is just a "You don't want to be like the Nazis, do you" ploy, from a shower short on ideas.

joeyanne

Akrasia wrote: »

But all the votes in a referendum are just added up no matter where they're cast. It's not like there are constituencies where abortion will be legal in south dublin but unconstitutional in Kerry.

Yep but I understand the point, they always show the breakdown and my home constituency just about passed the same sex marriage referendum. So every little helps..

freshpopcorn

Akrasia wrote: »

But all the votes in a referendum are just added up no matter where they're cast. It's not like there are constituencies where abortion will be legal in south dublin but unconstitutional in Kerry.

Some people would just like to show that there is support in there area for the issue. Like with the same sex marriage referendum. If people living in Dublin/Cork didn't travel home to there hometowns/village's another few area might have went No or close to being No and Dublin would have being higher.

david75

They say it’s about saving lives, janey Mack it’s taking years off all of ours

SusieBlue

david75 wrote: »

They say it’s about saving lives, janey Mack it’s taking years off all of ours

I spotted my first ever grey hair last night...Coincidence?? I think not!

david75

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I spotted my first ever grey hair last night...Coincidence?? I think not!

Use my trick and say it’s your first stripe of wisdom
If only that were true I’m half n half and not a day wiser than my first one haha

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I spotted my first ever grey hair last night...Coincidence?? I think not!

I've been waiting my whole adult life for this referendum, and one day after its properly announced, I'm already sick of hearing about it :pac:

Nettle Soup

Akrasia wrote: »

But all the votes in a referendum are just added up no matter where they're cast. It's not like there are constituencies where abortion will be legal in south dublin but unconstitutional in Kerry.

You can see the result for your electoral area too, not just at a constituency level.

My electoral area voted 51/49 in favour of the Marriage referendum showing me that there are a considerable amount of gombeens living near me

freshpopcorn

Nettle Soup wrote: »

You can see the result for your electoral area too, not just at a constituency level.

My electoral area voted 51/49 in favour of the Marriage referendum showing me that there are a considerable amount of gombeens living near me

I can see a good few areas similar to this dropping based on the result of the marriage referendum.

Nettle Soup

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I can see a good few areas similar to this dropping based on the result of the marriage referendum.

Yes there is a lot of bitterness around that result. My neighbours told their kids that they were voting No because gays would start adopting babies in huge rates. They are now saying they voted Yes.

Spanish Eyes

If the parents of disabled children were guaranteed full care and support for their SN child for life, the issue of aborting them would not arise IMV. Not that there is a test sub twelve weeks anyway for this. And the vast majority would not consider it either I think, but given the lack of supports, some might thing differently.

But anyway, it is always the incubator's fault no matter what, and there are a lot of men on the anti choice side. They will never have to face the trauma of termination. It's like as if they think women have no rights over their own bodies or something. Strange.

Disabilities cannot at the moment be diagnosed sub twelve weeks.

Have a look at Germany's abortion laws. It is still twelve weeks on demand (with counselling) since forever. I think that is humane.

Women need to fight for their rights on this one. All I can hear are men so far with one or two exceptions. Feck them.

posturingpat

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If the parents of disabled children were guaranteed full care and support for their SN child for life, the issue of aborting them would not arise IMV. Not that there is a test sub twelve weeks anyway for this. And the vast majority would not consider it either I think, but given the lack of supports, some might thing differently.

But anyway, it is always the incubator's fault no matter what, and there are a lot of men on the anti choice side. They will never have to face the trauma of termination. It's like as if they think women have no rights over their own bodies or something. Strange.

Disabilities cannot at the moment be diagnosed sub twelve weeks.

Have a look at Germany's abortion laws. It is still twelve weeks on demand (with counselling) since forever. I think that is humane.

Women need to fight for their rights on this one. All I can hear are men so far with one or two exceptions. Feck them.

Pesky men! Sure they've nothing to do with babies. It's between the Stork and the mother :rolleyes:

Annasopra

eviltwin wrote: »

And one of the pro life TDs, John D Walsh, wants their funding removed.

He most certainly is not a TD. I doubt someone that extreme would get elected as a TD

Annasopra

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have to say I can't see the eighth being repealed if the government can go changing the 12 week rule without putting it to another referendum!

Is that how you will vote?

freshpopcorn

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He most certainly is not a TD. I doubt someone that extreme would get elected as a TD

Mattie McGrath!

Annasopra

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

They banged when they didn't want a baby and now they expect us to massage and assuage their egos post the event. They can p*$$ off, no sympathy.

I see the hateful mysogyny is out already.

freshpopcorn

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is that how you will vote?

No!
But I can see it being used as something that could cause trouble. To the best of my knowledge certain TD's support late term abortions and they could cause the campaign trouble if they are give to much air time!

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Women already have choices;

They choose to have sex.
They can choose to use contraception.
They can choose to use the morning after pill.

If we were voting for abortion for Rape, Incest or medical reasons then I would vote no. What we are voting on is if women can have a 4th option because she couldn't be bothered to choose one of the first three options.


Incidentally committing suicide is illegal, so where are the woman's choice and the rights of her body in that issue?

Eh.... Suicide has not been illegal for 25 years.

Annasopra

freshpopcorn wrote: »

No!
But I can see it being used as something that could cause trouble. To the best of my knowledge certain TD's support late term abortions and they could cause the campaign trouble if they are give to much air time!

Which TD? I dont know any