Infraction for challenging the promotion of discrimination!

gizmo81

On a thread for advise on a HAP inspection a poster equated HAP tenants with the plague.

This dehumanises people with disabilities, addictions, unemployment etc

Secondly, it is not only dehumanising but it is in contravention of the Equal Status Act 2000-2015.

This post wasn't deleted but my posts challenging the stupidity :(behaviour that shows a lack of good sense or judgement.) was deleted.

I received no notification and found it incredible that my post be deleted but the post advocating illegal activity remain. I reported the post and asked for answers in the thread. I kept get getting deleted but the advocating of illegal activity i.e. discrimination remained. I was at a loss to understand who was doing it.

I started a thread about discrimination/HAP and then received an infraction notification. With a fantastic judgemental cry that said many of my posts had been deleted the past week. Funny, i hadn't;t noticed nor had I received notification.


I believe Athrasna was in the wrong, and they did subsequently edit the post in question.

However, why do some posters get the benefit of an edit and others get posts deleted. I will say I am new to boards and thought their would be notification. I read most information on each forum.

I was told off about my thread on moderation and discrimination So i edited it and made a post about the wider issue of discrimination, the dehumanising of HAP tenants but that's not allowed? Why? Please reinstate that post.

I have screen shots of everything, I gave Athtrasna plenty of time to respond to me but i got nothing.

I'd like the infraction removed and my thread reinstated.

Discrimination must be challenged at every utterance.

The Hill Billy

As you are appealing a card I have moved this from Help Desk to the Dispute Resolution Forum.

tHB

dudara

I just want confirm that you have tried to contact the mod, but you've heard nothing back? How long ago did you try to contact them?

gizmo81

Thank you.

The Hill Billy wrote: »

As you are appealing a card I have moved this from Help Desk to the Dispute Resolution Forum.

tHB

gizmo81

Yes, two weeks ago.

dudara wrote: »

I just want confirm that you have tried to contact the mod, but you've heard nothing back? How long ago did you try to contact them?

dudara

OK, I'll ask a CMod to look into this. Please bear with us.

gizmo81

Thank you.

dudara wrote: »

OK, I'll ask a CMod to look into this. Please bear with us.

Toots

Hi gizmo81, I'll look into this for you. Please can you forward me any PMs you received in relation to this (even if it's only the one notifying you of the infraction) and also any PMs you sent to the mod who infracted you.

Thank you

gizmo81

Thank you. I'll do this.

Toots wrote: »

Hi gizmo81, I'll look into this for you. Please can you forward me any PMs you received in relation to this (even if it's only the one notifying you of the infraction) and also any PMs you sent to the mod who infracted you.

Thank you

Toots

OK, I've looked over this, and firstly I'd like to point out that the mod in question did respond to you - there are numerous PMs exchanged between the two of you.

Now on to your posts/threads in Accommodation & Property. First of all, you posted the HAP inspection thread:

It is illegal to discriminate against rent allowance.

The fact you think an escape plan is 'minimum crap' tells me what sort of person you are.

and

Excuse me, you gave incorrect advise regardless of the ethics involved.

It is illegal to discriminate (Avoid) HAP tenants.

You just told him to avoid which wasn't what the OP was asking for advise on.

Stupid needs correcting.

both of which are uncivil, and could have earned you a warning or infraction. Instead, the moderator posted an on-thread warning reminding all posters to abide by the charter and remain civil.

You then started a thread titled "Discrimination & Moderation" which is what got you your card - the thread was not appropriate for the Accommodation & Property forum.

Then you went back to the HAP thread and posted this:

It is disgraceful considering recent fatalities.

But I got my post deleted and an infraction for that.

Oh wait I'm not allowed criticise moderators eeek

Then after that, started another thread about discrimination, despite the fact that your previous one was deleted.

Having looked over all this, I think you got off lightly with just a red card.

Infraction upheld.

gizmo81

So again my question isn't answered, you can red card me if you want for asking. Why were my what you'd call 'uncivil' comments calling someone who advocates discrimination stupid (having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense) deleted but someone whose post is advocating the discrimination of HAP tenants and dehumanising them is allowed to stay on the thread for longer than my 'uncivil' post?

What are the time stamps of my deletions and the edit of the dehumanising illegal advice?

What infraction did the other poster get for his illegal advice and the comparison of HAP tenants to a disease? Or did he just get his post neatly edited?

How can a thread about the discrimination of HAP tenants not be appropriate for the Accom & Property Forum? People get threads moved all the time to different forums than they began they don't get a red card.

And the Moderator did not engage with me, they barked three messages with a superior tone of how I had messages deleted, when I queried this i was ignored. Please present the information correctly.

You should warn people of messages deleted if you are going to slap that against them later.

I stand by everything I said, the behaviour of some posters in the Accom and Property forum is a disgrace but it's allowed/endorsed by Mods.

So you can ban me, I'll delete myself either way this is not something I'd like to be associated with. Firstly, can you provide me with unedited quotes I was challenging, I'll report to Dept Social Protection, they are cracking down on Landlords discriminating against tenants. I'll highlight here is where Landlords are allowed get that advice and information and promote the discrimination of HAP tenants.

Toots

gizmo81 wrote: »

So again my question isn't answered, you can red card me if you want for asking. Why were my what you'd call 'uncivil' comments calling someone who advocates discrimination stupid (having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense) deleted but someone whose post is advocating the discrimination of HAP tenants and dehumanising them is allowed to stay on the thread for longer than my 'uncivil' post?

Your posts were deleted because they weren't adding anything to the discussion and were argumentative. Your posts weren't the only ones deleted, there were several off topic/bickering posts deleted.

What are the time stamps of my deletions and the edit of the dehumanising illegal advice?

Your posts above are quoted in chronological order. I don't see why the specific timestamps are relevant.

What infraction did the other poster get for his illegal advice and the comparison of HAP tenants to a disease? Or did he just get his post neatly edited?

This thread is to discuss your infraction. Whether or not the other poster was infracted isn't relevant to this. You were infracted for starting a thread about "Discrimination & Moderation"

How can a thread about the discrimination of HAP tenants not be appropriate for the Accom & Property Forum? People get threads moved all the time to different forums than they began they don't get a red card.

You started a thread about "Discrimination & Moderation" - the A&P forum is not the place do query/discuss moderation, feedback is the place for that. That is why you got the red card.

And the Moderator did not engage with me, they barked three messages with a superior tone of how I had messages deleted, when I queried this i was ignored. Please present the information correctly.

OK, if we're talking about presenting information correctly, then I should say that I read through all of the messages exchanged between you and the moderator, and the tone of your PMs wasn't particularly civil. There were 7 or 8 messages sent by each of you.

You should warn people of messages deleted if you are going to slap that against them later.

I stand by everything I said, the behaviour of some posters in the Accom and Property forum is a disgrace but it's allowed/endorsed by Mods.

So you can ban me, I'll delete myself either way this is not something I'd like to be associated with.

You aren't banned, you received a red card/infraction. If you choose to close your account, that is entirely up to you, but you are not banned from any forums.

Firstly, can you provide me with unedited quotes I was challenging, I'll report to Dept Social Protection, they are cracking down on Landlords discriminating against tenants. I'll highlight here is where Landlords are allowed get that advice and information and promote the discrimination of HAP tenants.

No.


As I said, I'm upholding the infraction. If you wish, I can ask an Admin to review and see if they agree, and their decision will be final.

gizmo81

Quote:
What infraction did the other poster get for his illegal advice and the comparison of HAP tenants to a disease? Or did he just get his post neatly edited?
This thread is to discuss your infraction. Whether or not the other poster was infracted isn't relevant to this. You were infracted for starting a thread about "Discrimination & Moderation"


it is entirely relevant that a Boards.ie moderator allowed a member to call HAP tenants a 'plague' and advice someone to illegally 'avoid' HAP tenants in a post to remain hour longer than my uncivil post.

If Boards.ie moderators won't challenge discrimination and illegality why can't members?

Toots

As I already stated, this thread is to discuss YOUR infraction, not anybody else's.

Nowhere on that thread does anyone call HAP tennants a plague. The phrase "avoid like the plague" is used, that is an expression, it is not a poster literally saying that HAP tennants are a plague.

I am not discussing this further. Your options now are to accept my decision and the thread will be closed, or to request an admin review.

gizmo81

Also You said;

Your posts were deleted because they weren't adding anything to the discussion and were argumentative.

Let me point out how ridiculous this is.

On a thread asking about planning a fire escape route for people receiving assistance for housing, a poster is suggesting HAP tenants don't deserve to live and they are a plague? I said, as you pointed out above;

Quote:
It is illegal to discriminate against rent allowance.

The fact you think an escape plan is 'minimum crap' tells me what sort of person you are.
and
Quote:
Excuse me, you gave incorrect advise regardless of the ethics involved.

It is illegal to discriminate (Avoid) HAP tenants.

You just told him to avoid which wasn't what the OP was asking for advise on.

Stupid needs correcting.

It is disgraceful considering recent fatalities.

But I got my post deleted and an infraction for that.

Oh wait I'm not allowed criticise moderators eeek


What here isn't adding anything, yes it is argumentative but the poster is suggesting HAP tenants don't deserve to live and they are a plague?

Coem on!!!! Your priorities are scewed!

I'd like it to be review by looking at the time my posts were deleted and the time the illegal advice and discrimination post was edited.

I'd like to know why that poster got his post edited and I got my whole posts deleted.

I'd like the Admin to look at my response as a response to the poster, the lack of action by the mod on the poster of the discrimination/illegal advice and the severity of their response on me. "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

I'd like to know why my thread about discrimination of HAP tenants without challenging the MODS the second one that was deleted wasn't allowed or restored as requested?

gizmo81

I started this thread it's to discuss what i want it to discuss.

Avoid like the plague is equating HAP tenants with disease. End of.

Avoid women like the plague, avoid refugees like the plague or avoid LGBT like the plague would cause uproar this is no different.

It's a simile, language is very important as I explain below in regards to calling me uncivil.

Toots wrote: »

As I already stated, this thread is to discuss YOUR infraction, not anybody else's.

Nowhere on that thread does anyone call HAP tennants a plague. The phrase "avoid like the plague" is used, that is an expression, it is not a poster literally saying that HAP tennants are a plague.

I am not discussing this further. Your options now are to accept my decision and the thread will be closed, or to request an admin review.

gizmo81

The way I see it:

I get posts and threads deleted because the moderators dislike what I'm saying.

Other posters get their posts neatly edited and their threads moved to correct section.

Either moderators are not consistent or they have an agenda.

I apologise for not articulating my points to the moderator in one pm, for some people in the world that's not always easy.

Perhaps advise of an acceptable pm amount to avoid further problems.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103158237

My posts here are really helpful and try to persuade the OP not to take shortcuts when it comes to the safety of lives.

What does boards.ie want?

gizmo81

Toots because you accused me of being uncivil here are my messages to Athtrasna, I have highlighted them.
I say please and thank you throughout the conversation, though Athtrasna stopped replying.

Definition of uncivil is discourteous, impolite.

Please highlight my uncivil messages?

boards.ie;http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin
Private Message Dump for User gizmo81; 23-04-2017 23:38 -->

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Folder : Sent Items
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================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:30
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

This is the first I heard of anything.

athtrasna wrote:

Dear gizmo81,

You have been infracted for a breach of the forum charter.

Every forum on Boards.ie has a charter which lists any specific rules that forum may have and it is really important that you read this as it'll help you familiarise yourself with how that forum works. You should also understand that every forum is different and that charters are how you learn the differences.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

If you wish to appeal this infraction you can see details on how to do so here.

athtrasna

Moderator Note

You have already been directed to the forum charter. Disputing moderation on thread is unacceptable.

If you have an issue with a post, use the report function.

Also many of your posts have been deleted in the past week, again see the charter

Your post:

gizmo81 wrote: »

As a new member the landlord contingent is strong on this forum.

But today I've seen probably one of the worst pieces of advise and the dehumanising of people receiving housing assistance payment.

People with disabilities, the unemployed being regarded as a disease by one poster and when I challenged this my post deleted.

My post was deleted which advised the OP not to take the advise which advised illegal practise. Behaviour which is in contravention of the Equal Status Act 2000-2015.

Who deletes these posts? Who supports this discrimination?

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:31
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

I had a query about the discrimination of HAP tenants which I posted on the forum.

Surely I am allowed to question why that advise was allowed to stand on the forum?

athtrasna wrote:

Dear gizmo81,

You have been infracted for a breach of the forum charter.

Every forum on Boards.ie has a charter which lists any specific rules that forum may have and it is really important that you read this as it'll help you familiarise yourself with how that forum works. You should also understand that every forum is different and that charters are how you learn the differences.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

If you wish to appeal this infraction you can see details on how to do so here.

athtrasna

Moderator Note

You have already been directed to the forum charter. Disputing moderation on thread is unacceptable.

If you have an issue with a post, use the report function.

Also many of your posts have been deleted in the past week, again see the charter

Your post:

gizmo81 wrote: »

As a new member the landlord contingent is strong on this forum.

But today I've seen probably one of the worst pieces of advise and the dehumanising of people receiving housing assistance payment.

People with disabilities, the unemployed being regarded as a disease by one poster and when I challenged this my post deleted.

My post was deleted which advised the OP not to take the advise which advised illegal practise. Behaviour which is in contravention of the Equal Status Act 2000-2015.

Who deletes these posts? Who supports this discrimination?

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:36
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

Well the moderator is not doing a good job.

Allowing promotion of illegal activity

Reckless enlargement of lives.

Come on!!!

athtrasna wrote:

As already mentioned, the forum charter sets out the rules. Relevant rules in this case :

Report, don't retort
Arguing moderation on thread is not permitted
Attack the post not the poster

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:38
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

Remove GGTrek's comment

I didn't argue moderation I advised a poster of my infraction.

I reported the post.

And I attacked the ideology not the person

athtrasna wrote:

As already mentioned, the forum charter sets out the rules. Relevant rules in this case :

Report, don't retort
Arguing moderation on thread is not permitted
Attack the post not the poster

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:45
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

So you edit posts for some to avoid infractions but not for others. Nice! Well Done given the context.

athtrasna wrote:

The disputed comment was edited.

Your infraction was not for this thread

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:50
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

A forum ban because of my last private message? please explain

athtrasna wrote:

You will end up with a forum ban if you keep posting in the way you are today. Please read the charter.

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:51
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

You deleted my edited discrimination post. Can you explain why? I'm just querying is there a lot of hatred to hap tenants out there. I didn't question your moderation

What's the problemm?

athtrasna wrote:

You will end up with a forum ban if you keep posting in the way you are today. Please read the charter.

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 13:53
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

Asking about whether or not people have discriminated against housing assistance payments is surely correct for this forum?

I've read the rules.

Can you explain to me. Thank you.

athtrasna wrote:

No. Because of the threads you keep posting. They are not appropriate for this forum.

Please keep your posts within the forum charter

================================================================================
From : gizmo81
To : athtrasna
Date : 2017-04-08 14:02
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

I was actually following the rule
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94772692&postcount=3

But before you deleted the advocating of illegal actions you deleted my comments challenging the advocating of illegal actions.

Then, you correct me on my new post about discrimination and moderation. No worries.
So i edited it and made a post about the wider issue of discrimination, the dehumanising of HAP tenants but that's not allowed? Why? Please reinstate that post.

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Folder : Inbox
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================================================================================
From : athtrasna
To : gizmo81
Date : 2017-04-08 13:27
Title : You have received an infraction

---

Dear gizmo81,

You have been infracted for a breach of the forum charter.

Every forum on Boards.ie has a charter which lists any specific rules that forum may have and it is really important that you read this as it'll help you familiarise yourself with how that forum works. You should also understand that every forum is different and that charters are how you learn the differences.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

If you wish to appeal this infraction you can see details on how to do so here.

athtrasna

Moderator Note

You have already been directed to the forum charter. Disputing moderation on thread is unacceptable.

If you have an issue with a post, use the report function.

Also many of your posts have been deleted in the past week, again see the charter

Your post:

gizmo81 wrote: »

As a new member the landlord contingent is strong on this forum.

But today I've seen probably one of the worst pieces of advise and the dehumanising of people receiving housing assistance payment.

People with disabilities, the unemployed being regarded as a disease by one poster and when I challenged this my post deleted.

My post was deleted which advised the OP not to take the advise which advised illegal practise. Behaviour which is in contravention of the Equal Status Act 2000-2015.

Who deletes these posts? Who supports this discrimination?

================================================================================
From : athtrasna
To : gizmo81
Date : 2017-04-08 13:34
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

As already mentioned, the forum charter sets out the rules. Relevant rules in this case :

Report, don't retort
Arguing moderation on thread is not permitted
Attack the post not the poster

================================================================================
From : athtrasna
To : gizmo81
Date : 2017-04-08 13:44
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

The disputed comment was edited.

Your infraction was not for this thread

================================================================================
From : athtrasna
To : gizmo81
Date : 2017-04-08 13:47
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

You will end up with a forum ban if you keep posting in the way you are today. Please read the charter.

================================================================================
From : athtrasna
To : gizmo81
Date : 2017-04-08 13:51
Title : Re: You have received an infraction

---

No. Because of the threads you keep posting. They are not appropriate for this forum.

Please keep your posts within the forum charter

The Hill Billy

Hi there. Apologies for the delay in responding - it appears you got lost when the thread was bumped off the front page.

Regarding the infraction - this is a clearcut case of commenting on mod action on thread. Card upheld.

However, on the wider topic of discussing HAP - I'd imagine that A&P is the forum for this as long as the forum charter is observed. If you have any queries or need clarification - PM the mods before you post.

tHB