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"Tenants Unaffected"

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  • 24-04-2017 4:36pm
    #1
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭


    Apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to post this.

    My landlord rang me two days ago saying that he would be issuing me with a notice to terminate my tenancy.

    He said the house has gone sale agreed and that the new owners need everyone out so that they can renovate the building.

    However, both the ad on the estate agent's website and the sign which the estate agent put up outside clearly stated "Tenants Unaffected".

    My question is this: can the landlord just order me to leave like this in spite of "Tenants unaffected" being clearly stated when the property was on the market and advertised as such? Is this legal?


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    #2
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Not to the best of my knowledge. I'd file a complaint with the PRTB, it doesn't cost much to do so.

    Edit: my original post is incorrect, please disregard.

    However a phone call doesn't count as official notice. Also, if it is a condition of the sale of the property then that is a separate issue and perhaps isn't allowed after all.


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    #3
    accensi0n
    Registered Users Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    Once the landlord is giving you the required notice to end the tenancy (And the end date is not before the end of a lease if you have one) with the reason of selling the property then it should all be above board.


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    #4
    accensi0n
    Registered Users Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Not to the best of my knowledge. I'd file a complaint with the PRTB, it doesn't cost much to do so.

    How would the details of the sale of the property have any bearing on a legitimate reason for ending the tenancy (Selling the property) ?


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    #5
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    accensi0n wrote: »
    How would the details of the sale of the property have any bearing on a legitimate reason for ending the tenancy (Selling the property) ?

    Thanks for your response, Accensi0n.

    It seems to me that if the property was being sold subject to the tenants being unaffected by the sale i.e. that they remain in situ after the sale, that the landlord cannot just put everyone out now.

    Unless "Tenants unaffected" means the opposite of what I think it means, that the tenants are disposable?


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    #6
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Not to the best of my knowledge. I'd file a complaint with the PRTB, it doesn't cost much to do so.

    Edit: my original post is incorrect, please disregard.

    However a phone call doesn't count as official notice. Also, if it is a condition of the sale of the property then that is a separate issue and perhaps isn't allowed after all.

    Thanks Lucernarian.

    He said he would issue me with a written notice in the next few days.

    Even if it is legal, it just seems to be a lousy thing to do; lead your tenants to believe that they will be staying put after the sale.


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    #7
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Depending on whether buyers are financing sale with a mortgage the bank may well not allow drawdown without vacant possession


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    #8
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    How long are you there and have you a lease,

    If you are there a long time could have to give you upto 16 weeks notice, if you have a fixed lease you could hold him to it and insist on staying till the end of the lease.

    However if I were you I'd start looking.


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's irrelavent anyway as even if you could somehow stop the LL terminating now the new owners could terminate as soon as they take ownership (giving the correct notice of course).


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    #10
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Buteo Buteo wrote: »
    Thanks for your response, Accensi0n.

    It seems to me that if the property was being sold subject to the tenants being unaffected by the sale i.e. that they remain in situ after the sale, that the landlord cannot just put everyone out now.

    Unless "Tenants unaffected" means the opposite of what I think it means, that the tenants are disposable?

    "Tenants uneffected" is for consideration by the buyer, not the tenant. What this means is that the new owner, if they are buying as a rental investment, can retain the current tenants. It does not imply that you are gauranteed that your tenancy is uneffected and you can stay there, if the LL gives valid notice and is selling, then the eviction is legal assuming you don't have a fixed term lease.


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    #11
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    If there is a written lease it may not be possible to issue a valid termination notice.


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    #12
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Depending on whether buyers are financing sale with a mortgage the bank may well not allow drawdown without vacant possession

    I see.


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    #13
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    How long are you there and have you a lease,

    If you are there a long time could have to give you upto 16 weeks notice, if you have a fixed lease you could hold him to it and insist on staying till the end of the lease.

    However if I were you I'd start looking.

    Almost five years. I had a lease the first year but no lease after that.


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    #14
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    davo10 wrote: »
    "Tenants uneffected" is for consideration by the buyer, not the tenant. What this means is that the new owner, if they are buying as a rental investment, can retain the current tenants. It does not imply that you are gauranteed that your tenancy is uneffected and you can stay there, if the LL gives valid notice and is selling, then the eviction is legal assuming you don't have a fixed term lease.

    I was afraid it would be something like that. Thanks for the clarification.


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    #15
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Buteo Buteo wrote: »
    Almost five years. I had a lease the first year but no lease after that.

    If you are there more than 4 years you are entitled to 12 weeks notice.

    Where are you living, is your rent at the market rate? If they want you to move sooner I'd look for compensation. In the mean time start looking 12 weeks will fly. If you are in dublin with student moving out in June you could get lucky.


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html


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    #16
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The tenancy that applies here is a further part 4 tenancy. Does the notice period restart at the commencement of the further part 4 tenancy? I.e. a bit over a year ago.


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    #17
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    lucernarian wrote: »
    The tenancy that applies here is a further part 4 tenancy. Does the notice period restart at the commencement of the further part 4 tenancy? I.e. a bit over a year ago.

    No. The notice period is 4 weeks per year of occupation up to 8 years, giving a maximum notice period of 32 weeks.


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    #18
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    If you are there more than 4 years you are entitled to 12 weeks notice.

    Where are you living, is your rent at the market rate? If they want you to move sooner I'd look for compensation. In the mean time start looking 12 weeks will fly. If you are in dublin with student moving out in June you could get lucky.


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

    Rent is below market rate. Yes, I might be lucky in June. But I think I'll try and buy an apartment insted.


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    #19
    Buteo Buteo
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Buteo Buteo


    One more thing: the flat was never registered with the PRTB. Could that now have an impact on matters?


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    #20
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Buteo Buteo wrote: »
    One more thing: the flat was never registered with the PRTB. Could that now have an impact on matters?

    Could cause delay. The landlord will have to register in order to open a dispute with the RTB. It is arguable that a valid notice of termination can't be served by an unregistered landlord.


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