Irish SAR discussion

BoatMad

The solution to top cover is to have a variety of sources to call upon, or a contract with a source with significant resources, however given the number of top cover requirements, it seems an expensive solution . A proper Aer Corp would of course help the issue !!

Storm 10

vicwatson wrote: »

Looks like SAR 117/8 & 5 were/ are all out at the moment

117 was in Wex Harbour with two lifeboats and are all back at base now

118 is up off Donegal with a lifeboat (maybe it's to do with the loss of SAR116)

115 is out off Cork with a lifeboat

Unusual to have 3 out at the one time???

Rescue 115 was training off the Cork Coast and Rescue 118 was training off Donegal

TomOnBoard

Negative_G wrote: »

As I explained previously the AC operated a system whereby there was a fixed wing and rotary aircraft on standby 24hrs a day with the crews to go.

Obviously the CASA for example could be tasked with an Air Ambulance as they have an SLA with the HSE for this also. So if a top cover request comes in the aircraft wont be available.

The working hours issue has only come into effect recently and it seems it is only temporary in nature.

I suppose my point is that, with all the sophisticated technology involved in IRCG, AC, HSE etc. command and control systems, it can't be beyond the bounds of technological interconnectness for each recipient organisation to know the current availability of services from supplier organisations, upon which it relies.

If necessary, use a feckin red and green bulb in MRCC that is switched from Baldonnel, with a great big sign on it that says AC service availability!

Then again, mebbe the bulbs system wouldn't work. Someone would need to be on duty to throw the switch.

BoatMad

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I suppose my point is that, with all the sophisticated technology involved in IRCG, AC, HSE etc. command and control systems, it can't be beyond the bounds of technological interconnectness for each recipient organisation to know the current availability of services from supplier organisations, upon which it relies.

If necessary, use a feckin red and green bulb in MRCC that is switched from Baldonnel, with a great big sign on it that says AC service availability!

Then again, mebbe the bulbs system wouldn't work. Someone would need to be on duty to throw the switch.

you really have to have an understanding of how dysfunctional the Aer Corp is to appreciate the issues

Negative_G

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I suppose my point is that, with all the sophisticated technology involved in IRCG, AC, HSE etc. command and control systems, it can't be beyond the bounds of technological interconnectness for each recipient organisation to know the current availability of services from supplier organisations, upon which it relies.

If necessary, use a feckin red and green bulb in MRCC that is switched from Baldonnel, with a great big sign on it that says AC service availability!

Then again, mebbe the bulbs system wouldn't work. Someone would need to be on duty to throw the switch.

Have a read of the HIQA report on Maeve McGivern to see the failings and subsequent actions after for all involved.

BoatMad

Negative_G wrote: »

Have a read of the HIQA report on Maeve McGivern to see the failings and subsequent actions after for all involved.

The reality is that top-cover is not that prevalent and hence by and large the Aer Corp does deploy a CASA as required. on this fateful night that was not the case, but then again , thats not the point

Negative_G

BoatMad wrote: »

The reality is that top-cover is not that prevalent and hence by and large the Aer Corp does deploy a CASA as required. on this fateful night that was not the case, but then again , thats not the point

I am aware of that.

TomOnBoard asked about systems that were in place. The report examines closely the failings by all parties on that particular case and addresses one of TomOnBoards queries specifically.

BoatMad

TomOnBoard asked about systems that were in place. The report examines closely the failings by all parties on that particular case and addresses one of TomOnBoards queries specifically.

its not a failing (per se) , that the Aer Corp couldnt provide top cover, it would be a failing if no top cover was attempted at all.

Means Of Escape

Negative_G wrote: »

But that's the thing. The state doesn't just own a "SAR asset" it potentially owns a multi role aircraft which can be used in a multiude of roles in support of the State.

There is perfect sense in the state owning such assets but there needs to be sufficient numbers of aircraft and crew in order to provide a reliable service and to meet any SLA obligations it may have.

Quite simply, two aircraft, both of which have the highest airframe hours of any CASA 235's in the world, is not sufficient.

Moreover the state at times can't even maintain the expensive assets they have case example the Gulfstream executive jet which at one point was in an unsuitable hangar in Baldonnel with its tail exposed to the elements
The corrosion that took hold as a result caused an expensive repair
Roll on to recently to see the same jet sold off at a knockdown price due to its "poor" condition and costly repair yet the US company who has it now has it in active service with all airworthy Cerys from the FAA.

Negative_G

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Moreover the state at times can't even maintain the expensive assets they have case example the Gulfstream executive jet which at one point was in an unsuitable hangar in Baldonnel with its tail exposed to the elements
The corrosion that took hold as a result caused an expensive repair
Roll on to recently to see the same jet sold off at a knockdown price due to its "poor" condition and costly repair yet the US company who has it now has it in active service with all airworthy Cerys from the FAA.

Exactly. Now flying on the N297PJ reg.

For decades the government have Underfunded the Air Corps and the wider Defence Forces.

You are slightly incorrect I think. The issues apparently related to the undercarriage and not the tail. The newest hangar was built circa 2000 so it had been hangared since then.

TomOnBoard

Negative_G wrote: »

Have a read of the HIQA report on Maeve McGivern to see the failings and subsequent actions after for all involved.

Wildo! However I won't be in a position to D/L and read for awhile. What's the gist?

Coil Kilcrea

Negative_G wrote: »

Exactly. Now flying on the N297PJ reg.

For decades the government have Underfunded the Air Corps and the wider Defence Forces.

Well said! Give the Air Corps and the Defence Forces the proper resources, a clear mandate and hold them accountable. As proud as I am of our ICG and SAR capability, I'm embarrassed for the Air Corps more often than not. Now I'm sure change is needed, that they can be more efficient blah blah blah but ffs give them the tools to do their job and I'm sure we'll be very proud of the result.

BoatMad

Negative_G wrote: »

Exactly. Now flying on the N297PJ reg.

For decades the government have Underfunded the Air Corps and the wider Defence Forces.

You are slightly incorrect I think. The issues apparently related to the undercarriage and not the tail. The newest hangar was built circa 2000 so it had been hangared since then.

sure I think everyone agrees on that, the issue boils down to the fact that public money spent on defence, hardly gets a single vote

Coil Kilcrea

BoatMad wrote: »

sure I think everyone agrees on that, the issue boils down to the fact that public money spent on defence, hardly gets a single vote

Correct, just like our fisherman have no voice.

Means Of Escape

There shouldn't be any scrimping or scraping of funding for equipment or assets that are required to have an effective Aer Corp and SAR service available in Ireland
One would be damn glad to see a SAR helicopter coming towards you as you are bobbing in a sinking boat in the Atlantic
We have had enough of the hare brain ideas where money was fired at lame duck ideas e.g. The (14 million euro ) Jeanie Johnson as classic case of overexpenditure ( est build cost 4 million ) to see it fail its first sea trial .
There is no reason not to have careful expenditure on vital services there are enough smart accountants to ensure that
In fact every lifeguard community serving a public beach could be given a jet ski to aid the recovery of people getting into difficulty in the water and the machines maintained by the local councils ..
The money is there but it all boils down to priority .

BoatMad

There shouldn't be any scrimping or scraping of funding for equipment or assets that are required to have an effective Aer Corp and SAR service available in Ireland

IN fairness, the SAR services are quite well funded in Ireland by a combination of public and private donations and as a result we have a world class setup here

The Defence Forces are completely different, because military policy in a country like Ireland is a huge fudge and resources can be drained from the defense forces, without any notable effect on the country

We have had enough of the hare brain ideas where money was fired at lame duck ideas e.g. The (14 million euro ) Jeanie Johnson as classic case of overexpenditure ( est build cost 4 million ) to see it fail its first sea trial .

IM not sure what relevance this is . we have lots of issues of far greater waste then the JJ, whats criminal about the JJ was the states decision not to use her as a sail training vessel and leave the 14 million to rot on the Liffey.

Psychlops

jmayo wrote: »

Shure couldn't they have just waited for the next Aran Island Ferries "na farraige" boat to come along.

What a waste and using two helis as well.

You have no idea what your on about, EAS & IRCG often arrive from separate taskings or the same incident at UHG on a very frequent basis, they post this stuff quite often on their facebook pages regarding the "Golden Hour" of getting a patient/casualty to Hospital within that hour as opposed to a road Ambulance, exactly how long do you think it would take a person coming from Inishmore to UHG?
1st they have to get onto RNLI LIfeboat, they may not be capable of walking, then a sea trip in most likely rough seas to Costello Bay, then onto an Ambulance, but is the Ambulance there yet?? If yes then great but it is another long trip into UHG, as opposed to what 12-14mins in an S92?

IRCG have often said they would rather be tasked & not needed than be needed & not tasked.

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https://www.facebook.com/IrishCoastGuard/videos/10151985799414622/&amp;show_text=0&amp;width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

Psychlops

smurfjed wrote: »

What is the status of the present SAR fleet, are they still one machine down?
Has anyone questioned the minister about the lack of Aer Corp support? And if there are now any plans to provide that level of support?

As it stands:

R118-Sligo-EI-ICG
R117-Waterford-EI-ICU
R116-Dublin-EI-ICD ( Was in SNN for maintenance over the weeknd but now back at Dublin, also did 3 taskings as R115 on Saturday )
R115-Shannon-EI-ICA

TomOnBoard

Psychlops wrote: »

smurfjed wrote: »

What is the status of the present SAR fleet, are they still one machine down?
Has anyone questioned the minister about the lack of Aer Corp support? And if there are now any plans to provide that level of support?

As it stands:

R118-Sligo-EI-ICG
R117-Waterford-EI-ICU
R116-Dublin-EI-ICD ( Was in SNN for maintenance over the weeknd but now back at Dublin, also did 3 taskings as R115 on Saturday )
R115-Shannon-EI-ICA

Yes. One machine down. A 5th airframe formed part of the fleet as a rotating spare. That rotating spare capability is no longer in place.

Means Of Escape

Irish Steve wrote: »

This thread has been created by moving significant numbers of posts out of the R116 Crash thread, as they are not directly related to the crash, but are relevant to the wider discussion of the SAR and Air Corps operations in Ireland. Please use it to continue the discussion about SAR and Air Corps related issues, rather than using the R116 crash discussion related thread.

I am aware that the split is not perfect, and there may be some breaks in discussions, but we need to keep the main R116 thread on the specific topic of the crash, and related actions that are directly related to that event, even if it means that there is less activity on the R116 thread.

Waste of time
Tumbleweed thread

jmayo

Psychlops wrote: »

You have no idea what your on about, EAS & IRCG often arrive from separate taskings or the same incident at UHG on a very frequent basis, they post this stuff quite often on their facebook pages regarding the "Golden Hour" of getting a patient/casualty to Hospital within that hour as opposed to a road Ambulance, exactly how long do you think it would take a person coming from Inishmore to UHG?
1st they have to get onto RNLI LIfeboat, they may not be capable of walking, then a sea trip in most likely rough seas to Costello Bay, then onto an Ambulance, but is the Ambulance there yet?? If yes then great but it is another long trip into UHG, as opposed to what 12-14mins in an S92?

IRCG have often said they would rather be tasked & not needed than be needed & not tasked.

Ehh can you please turn on your sarcasm detector.

My post was aimed at certain poster who complained about cost of helicopter operations for what they termed minor medical complaints.

I am actually a huge fan of heli air ambulances as can be found in some of my old posts round here.
I think there should be dedicated operations in each province and I don't mean the Air Corps either.

BTW speaking of them did they ever get the airframe back that they recked near Borrisoleigh when the power lines "appeared out of nowhere"?

Storm 10

Air Corps 112 was in today at 2pm from the Longford direction and Rescue 115 has just landed from Kilronan in the Aran Islands, wonderful lifesaving service by the Coastguard and the Air Corps. UHG is the busiest hospital in the Country for helicopter operations. Nice to have some activity seen as Galway Airport is closed.

TomOnBoard

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Waste of time
Tumbleweed thread

I take it that you mean: In your Humble Opinion??

TomOnBoard

Negative_G wrote: »

Have a read of the HIQA report on Maeve McGivern to see the failings and subsequent actions after for all involved.

OMG! While I had memories of the high level scuttlebutt around this, my memory had not registered ANY of the detail that is presented in the HIQA report. While the report refers to the point I made abt the utility of a few traffic light type bulbs ( and I admit I was being a bit facetious to make a point at the time) the sheer detail and analysis of the HIQA report is noteworthy, and well worth looking at. How sooooo many people and their organisations, each of whom had the person's best interests at heart and had pushed every button they knew of, could appear sooooo un- coordinated/in-effectual and kinda like a bunch of Keystone Cops is educational to say the least! And this happened in this decade, not 100 years ago!!

Does the learning that transpired still exist in current processes/procedures? I don't know. I do know that oftentimes when new stuff is brought in, funding is provided for the initial photo- op changes that are made. Do they last, however?

Negative_G

TomOnBoard wrote: »

OMG! While I had memories of the high level scuttlebutt around this, my memory had not registered ANY of the detail that is presented in the HIQA report. While the report refers to the point I made abt the utility of a few traffic light type bulbs ( and I admit I was being a bit facetious to make a point at the time) the sheer detail and analysis of the HIQA report is noteworthy, and well worth looking at. How sooooo many people and their organisations, each of whom had the person's best interests at heart and had pushed every button they knew of, could appear sooooo un- coordinated/in-effectual and kinda like a bunch of Keystone Cops is educational to say the least! And this happened in this decade, not 100 years ago!!

Does the learning that transpired still exist in current processes/procedures? I don't know. I do know that oftentimes when new stuff is brought in, funding is provided for the initial photo- op changes that are made. Do they last, however?

It does make for very interesting and thankfully although she missed the window for that transplant I believe she got the transplant she needed subsequently.

I'm not aware of any such high profile issues since then so I am assuming the pertinent lessons were learned and procedures estsablished and adhered to.

L1011

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Waste of time
Tumbleweed thread

You were warned sufficiently about not discussing mod actions in-thread.

marno21

EI-ICA just passed at low level over Limerick city. Anything happening tonight?

Seems odd as well that they fly directly over the city centre at this time of the night, that they're not routed over a less populated area.

Have heard the Air Corps 139s flying overhead as well going to KIR so I presume it's a defined route for helicopters.

Buffman

marno21 wrote: »

EI-ICA just passed at low level over Limerick city. Anything happening tonight?

Seems odd as well that they fly directly over the city centre at this time of the night, that they're not routed over a less populated area.

It just passed over me here, looks like a direct flight from Tralee to Dublin so probably medical.

Storm 10

Medical mission from Kerry Hospital to Dublin last night, you can see the missions on their facebook page when they have been completed.

ED E

National Ambulance‏ @AmbulanceNAS 2 hours ago
Overnight our #Aeromedical Dispatch coordinated transfers with Coastguard #Rescue115 & #Rescue118 with crews from Sligo,Tralee,Galway&Dublin

Buffman

This chap was very lucky.

A surfer has been rescued from the sea off Northern Ireland after more than 30 hours in the water.
Belfast Coastguard coordinated the search for the missing surfer who left to go surfing from a beach near Campbeltown in Scotland yesterday and did not return
..........
"He was kitted out with all the right clothing including a thick neoprene suit and this must have helped him to survive for so long at sea.
"He is hypothermic but conscious and has been flown to hospital in Belfast."

Footage of the rescue from Rescue 999. (Prestwick based S92)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugom7kOP8Fo

marno21

Rescue 115 just departed SNN heading south, over Newcastlewest at the minute.

faoiarvok

Fair amount of searching going on off Stranraer all day. R116 took part this morning.

R116:


Scottish Heli:

Buffman

faoiarvok wrote: »

Fair amount of searching going on off Stranraer all day. R116 took part this morning.

In relation to this I'm guessing.

http://news.sky.com/story/search-expanded-for-two-men-missing-on-speedboat-off-scotland-10867553

A large-scale search is under way for two men who went missing on a speedboat trip off the southwest of Scotland.
The Coastguard was first alerted when the men, aged 35 and 46, did not return to Port Logan in Dumfries and Galloway on Saturday evening.

Storm 10

Rescue 115 and Resue 118 involved ,115 done the top cover for 118, great result

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-coast-guard-helicopter-airlifts-injured-sailor-from-british-navy-submarine-788946.html

ED E

Track for that particular pickup.

Storm 10

Rescue 115 and Rescue 118 arrived at UHG Galway together on separate tasking's in the past hour, Air Corps 112 should be in shortly

siobhan08

flew through Dublin airport at the weekend and was curious where exactly in the airport is Rescue 116 based?

ED E

siobhan08 wrote: »

flew through Dublin airport at the weekend and was curious where exactly in the airport is Rescue 116 based?

Far west side of the airport, very far from the terminals but visible from the northern runway.

Gadgetman496

They are building a new hanger at Dublin which is due to be complete in 2018

http://coastmonkey.ie/new-coast-guard-hanger-dublin-airport/

Growler!!!

"Hi All,
Thought you may be interested in this. VH-NBP has been brought to Perth to get it ready for transport to Ireland. I presume it will been the replacement for the airframe lost in the trajic Rescue 116 crash. Photos curtousty of Clyde Lannan a fellow member of AAWA."

Saw the above on the Shannon spotters FB page. Anyone know if it's true?

Coil Kilcrea

R116 off Skerries conducting a low level search with RNLI lifeboat. Hope it ends well.

Psychlops

‪Irish Coast Guard Helicopter RESCUE116, RNLI, LE Orla, LE Niamh & an Air Corps Casa are all off Skerries on mission.‬

Psychlops

Growler!!! wrote: »

"Hi All,
Thought you may be interested in this. VH-NBP has been brought to Perth to get it ready for transport to Ireland. I presume it will been the replacement for the airframe lost in the trajic Rescue 116 crash. Photos curtousty of Clyde Lannan a fellow member of AAWA."

Saw the above on the Shannon spotters FB page. Anyone know if it's true?

True story, by container ship I believe, same upgraded specs as the UK S92 Fleet with angled lighting at the end of the main gear sponsons for illuminating areas.

Coil Kilcrea

Psychlops wrote: »

‪Irish Coast Guard Helicopter RESCUE116, RNLI, LE Orla, LE Niamh & an Air Corps Casa are all off Skerries on mission.‬

It seems a razor fishing boat sunk, 1 person recovered with intensive search continuing for 1 other person. Fingers crossed.

tricky D

Also covered in Dublin County North: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057745575

ED E

116 Just passed overhead, appears to be on Mountain rescue on this fine Saturday (possible training before?).



As I type its just returned northbound.

L1011

IAC having a family reunion day for anyone they've rescued/assisted on Medevac ops:

https://www.facebook.com/IrlAirCorps/posts/1782330415127907

wotswattage

Interesting day yesterday for the Air Corps CASA involving a yacht, an Aer Lingus transatlantic flight, the CASA and a UK Coast Guard helicopter!
I randomly turned on marine traffic at my work computer (dossing) yesterday and saw that SAR 1110 was airborne and was wondering what it was doing out there!

Taken from Air Corps Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/IrlAirCorps/posts/1791055454255403
Yesterday, while one of our Casa Maritime Patrol Aircraft was on a High Level Patrol, close to Rockall, it received notice from an Aer Lingus transatlantic flight of a casualty on board a vessel off the South Coast of Ireland. The crew contacted #AirCorpsOperations to receive more information and took up a course towards the vessel.
#Charlie253 made a 805 kilometer dash in 2 hours to take up station overhead the yacht and offer assistance to the responding UK Coastguard helicopter which arrived 25 minutes later.
Charlie253 remained at 17,000ft to track the inbound helicopter, casualty yacht and a nearby freighter on radar and AIS. The crew provided a communications relay and gave the helicopter 'terminal guidance/vectors' to expedite the rendezvous.
Charlie253 escorted the helicopter until it was within 100 kilometers of the Scilly Isles. The total airborne time for the Irish Air Corps aircraft was 7hours and 38 minutes. This type of mission shows the aircraft's impressive #Reach, #Endurance and #Utility.
#EyesOverTheSea
Irish Defence Forces

The CASA's track (I assume they only turned on their AIS once they switched mission from surveillence to rescue mission and became SAR 1110)


The HMCG S-91 track from the base at Newquay towards the yacht and back, a 530 mile round trip!
*Bear in mind this seems to go out of coverage for 3 hours showing the importance of top cover/tracking*


And the corresponding post (with a video in the link) from the UK's Maritime and Coastguard Agency Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/MCA/videos/1403008853070226/
Our Newquay Coastguard helicopter made an incredible 530 mile round trip yesterday to rescue a desperately unwell yachtsman 203nm west south west from the Isles of the Scilly, in rough seas in the Atlantic sea.
The yacht crew used their satellite phone to declare their Mayday to the Coastguard at 11.40am yesterday (29 June) reporting that one of their crew was unwell and needed urgent medical assistance.
Due to the distance involved, communication with the vessel was poor and patchy, so the UK Coastguard got the yacht to activate their EPIRB to establish their exact position. A Mayday relay broadcast was then issued asking all nearby vessels for assistance.
A military fixed wing aircraft and an Irish Casa fixed wing aircraft took turns to establish communications with the vessel so that information could be relayed back to the UK Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) which is based at the National Maritime Operations Centre in Fareham. The Coastguard were able to keep in constant contact with the vessel and relay information to the UK Coastguard search and rescue helicopter based at Newquay who was making its way to the stricken casualty.
The Coastguard helicopter refuelled in the Isles of Scilly and arrived on scene just before 4pm and winched the casualty on board. On its return journey it refuelled again on the Scillies and the casualty was landed at Newquay Airport for further transfer to Treliske Hospital by land ambulance.
Mark Coupland, Chief Pilot for the UK Coastguard search and rescue helicopter based at Newquay Airport said ‘Our Coastguard helicopters have a range of just over 200 nautical miles dependant on the wind. Due to the long range involved, we were supported by military and Irish Casa fixed wing aircrafts to help us complete the mission successfully. They provided vital communications assistance between the vessel and our aircraft as well as maintaining a watchful eye over us at such a great distance from land. Just as importantly they made sure the vessel had adjusted its course to prepare for the winching which saved us valuable time on scene. Their support ensured our hover time was dramatically reduced which meant we were able to winch the crewman on board in a matter of minutes. In the heavy sea state the vessel was obviously having difficulty maintaining a steady course which we required to conduct a transfer from the deck. Due to the limited time available to us we suggested they stream their dinghy with the casualty in it to allow a swift pick up while maintaining clearance from the yacht’s mast. When you’re operating at the limits of your range and endurance in a potentially life and death situation such as this one, every minute counts. We wish the crewman a speedy recovery.’

Gadgetman496

That really does show the excellent and dangerous work all those involved do as a matter of course each working day. God speed them all.