Mars by 2020?

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

Still Earth bound by old tech. When will this change? Any theoretical probabilities that might reach fruition someday?

You can leverage some things.
To escape the Earth's Gravity you need twice as much energy as Low Earth Orbit. So to get to Mars you send the fuel to LEO with rockets and then use ion driver or mirrors to get it to a higher orbit. This would save you up to half of the number of rockets. Humans would still have to up with chemical rockets because otherwise any savings in fuel weight would be spent on food and oxygen.


Nukes will get you to orbit if you don't mind the political fallout and the fallout itself.

Space elevator is still far in the future and too slow for humans but fine for fuel and nuts and bolts.

Fathom

NASA's space elevator concept.

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

NASA's space elevator concept.

So the goal is 2Km and the previous best was about 1.5Km ?


Mars and the Moon aren't that different for a space elevator , they just need to be very long.

www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/1032Pearson.pdf

Black Swan

Doubtful that the Republican controlled US Congress or the Trump administration will fund substantial research for space elevators.

Rubecula

can't say I have any particular liking for space elevator schemes
I prefer ground to space vessels

Capt'n Midnight

Space elevators are slow.

You'd have to send people up with months worth of food for the journey.

So for now people would still go up strapped to giant fireworks


Sligatrons and rail guns and superguns and stuff could also send up things like Ice and nuts and bolts and fuel, but nothing fragile like people, electronics, or delicate mechanicals. But to get from LEO to Mars takes a lot of delta-V so every Kg you don't have to haul up on a rocket is worth it.

Rubecula

Could a maglev work with a power boost?

Capt'n Midnight

Rubecula wrote: »

Could a maglev work with a power boost?

In a vacuum there's no air resistance and it's probably possible to build one on the moon. Just needs to be very long or have very high acceleration. You then need a rocket to circularise the orbit once you get up there.

Down here air resistance doesn't help at all.

Rubecula

that is pretty much what I meant, sorry my fault for not speaking plainly

dr.fuzzenstein

I doubt anything will happen this century. All those videos about space elevators or even "warp drive" are nothing more than fan fiction created by well meaning nerds.
It's all about money. The US spends a stupendous amount on the military



So all that money is badly needed to buy stuff to blow <snip> up.
Private enterprise has the cash, but the golden rule is that it has to have a return. And no risk. Everything else can <snip> off.
So money will be spent on 2 things. Bigger bombs and shinier gadgets.
What will happen after that? I only see it getting worse.
Why did humans land on the moon anyway? It wasn't for exploration or the betterment of mankind. It was purely spite and malice. Just to get one over the other guy.
If someone told Trump the Mexicans were building a base on the Moon or Mars, trillions would be made available within 5 minutes.
So the only way to get the funding is to appeal to greed, spite and malice. Outside laziness, those are the biggest driving factors for any kind of human achievement. Because we will only do things to make our future lives easier, make more money or get ahead of the next guy.

Fathom

If the "Military Industrial Complex" could profit from Mars. It would happen. Otherwise?

dr.fuzzenstein

Fathom wrote: »

If the "Military Industrial Complex" could profit from Mars. It would happen. Otherwise?

Bigger bombs and shinier iPhones.

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

If the "Military Industrial Complex" could profit from Mars. It would happen. Otherwise?

Jim Hacker: "Math has become politicized: If it costs 5 billion pounds a year to maintain Britain's nuclear defences and 75 pounds a year to feed a starving African child, how many African children can be saved from starvation if the Ministry of Defence abandoned nuclear weapons?"

Sir Humphrey: "That's easy: none. They'd spend it all on conventional weapons."

Capt'n Midnight

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I doubt anything will happen this century. All those videos about space elevators or even "warp drive" are nothing more than fan fiction created by well meaning nerds.
It's all about money. The US spends a stupendous amount on the military

A lot of the NASA budget goes to the military-industrial complex.

IIRC there's about €4Bn in the NASA budget for overruns and projects and pork barrelling and so on.

Fathom

1958 t0 2012: NASA's declining budget as a percentage of federal budget.

Valerie Matthews

I can hardly believe in it

Fathom

NASA budget. "Follow the money." Not speeches or tweets. "Money talks and ..."

AMKC

Well I think we all now know that humans will not be on Mars by 2020. It will be more like the 2030s. Anyone here watch the national Geographic show ''Mars' that was out a couple of years ago? Its on Netflix now. I am watching it now and must say its very good.

Fathom

Mars One. Specifies several unmanned first. Structures. Resources. Shipped first. 2020 doubtful.

Capt'n Midnight

Mars 2020 ? Try 1952.





Von Braun's enormous expedition approaches Mars. The three winged landing boats are accompanied by seven cargo/passenger ships.

http://www.astronautix.com/v/vonbraunmarpedition-1952.html

Fathom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Mars 2020 ? Try 1952.

Virtually visits Mars.

Midster

Going to Mars right now seems nothing more than a pointless waste of money, time, and if it all goes wrong (which it probably will) a waste of life. After years of unmanned probes and satellites exploring space for us, we finally got the stamina in us once again go into space. We stretched ourselves to go to the moon, and after trillions was spent on it, and a few lives lost we completely lost both the will, and the appetite for it, hence the countless probes, drones and satellites we use today. I feel this is exactly what will happen while attempting the same with mars. Why not send the drones satellites and probes there now, let them explore while we utilize the moon as a base for building bigger more capable craft with better tech so we can eliminate as much danger as we can before we even set off. Put the brakes on, let’s do this right!!

Fathom

If WW II like nationalism once again takes hold. Sputnik like competition could fuel Mars.

Midster

Fathom wrote: »

If WW II like nationalism once again takes hold. Sputnik like competition could fuel Mars.

I just don’t see the point in going to mars. And the more I think about it the less sense it seems to make.
Why go now... that’s the big question, don’t have the tech to build, or mine, or even explore properly. It’s just going for the sake of going, which is an effort that’s going to absorb billions of pounds/dollars/euros for a quick look around then a very long journey back home.
It probably won’t be repeated because once you’ve been there, and there’s no real achievement in going back, what’s the point.
Mars only makes sense when we have the kit available to land and stay, or land builder robots with all the materials to mine.
Pointless waste of money, it really is

Fathom

Midster wrote: »

Mars only makes sense when we have the kit available to land and stay, or land builder robots with all the materials to mine. Pointless waste of money, it really is

Human travel to Mars, or occupation makes no practical sense. Robotics may, if mining profits.

sKeith

Fathom wrote: »

Human travel to Mars, or occupation makes no practical sense. Robotics may, if mining profits.

We've already sent robots to mars.


Now we need to send something there, with insufficient raw materials to make it back. The crew (human or robotic) has to survive on mars for long enough for to create the fuel for the return trip.


or..


we send more robots up now to make the fuel for the return trip, before the crew ever make it to the marsian surface.


either way, mars is a great target for 2020.



if we can do mars today/tomorrow, then harder stuff seems more accessible, sooner.



sticking our head in the sand for a 100 years, wont help us improve.

Midster

we have already sent satellites to mars, fact I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a few spinning round the planet right now.

It’s not important enough for us to be there at this stage to go there.

The whole point in having robots in the first place is so they can do things that are either to dangerous or to expensive or fruitless for us.

Develop robots to go look around mars first and send them as soon as possible.

Then while we are doing that, also look into developing builder robots and send those to the moon, followed by enough metal and materials to build a spaceship there.

Then, many years after now, after we have samples from all over mars from both above and below ground, and we know exactly we’re we need to go. Then go.

In my opinion we are wasting our time, risking our lives, and wasting valuable resources (money, rocket fuel etc) on something that if we just waited, sent robots of to do the jobs we are developing them for in the first place we could actually achieve much quicker.

Fathom

If Mars mining profitable. Mining robots sent. Will they need killer robot escorts? Judging from human history on Earth.

CyberMoses

Mars by 2020? How about extraterrestrials?

Allow us to say that "word on the street", who is a reliable source in the world of computer science has informed "passerbye" that apparently- now this is not factual but more a topic of contemplation- that The Unites States and United Nations has extraterrestrial contact with numerous civilisations in the milkyway, as part of the "behind closed doors" search for extraterrestrial life, and these civilisations are parallel civilisations of earth, with the same military industrial complex and same computer science systems and architecture i.e. CIA, NSA etc and all these politicians, generals, celebrities etc that you see, are nothing more that archetypal forms of the unconscious human mind as it exists within the structures of these military civilisations that are called "Egypt" this explains things like the pyramids etc. and they, the archetypal forms, Putin, La Pen, Obama, Hitler, Lady Gaga, Michael D Higgins, the Royals etc. are used, by the mysterious architects of these civilisations, so as to subjugate and control humanity as they turn a hunter-gatherer into a universal toy soldier as part of the future space-force earth.

The rabbit hole goes deeper, or should I say getting out of the rabbit hole goes deeper, but that is all I will say for now, I have much more information regarding financial monopolisation, political fraud by organisations such as the Gardai, Military Inside-Jobs regard 9/11 and high profile assassinations, all being covered up by the western criminal justice system and the very top of these criminal justice systems', the High Courts, the Magistrate Courts, the Roman Curia and even the International Court of Justice, in a desperate attempt to keep western governing bodies such as the UN and EU from collapsing, as making this public would result in the collapse of these organisations.

Allow us to get a friendly conversation going, no hostility and no herd mentality.

Roger_007

CyberMoses wrote: »

Mars by 2020? How about extraterrestrials?

Allow us to say that "word on the street", who is a reliable source in the world of computer science has informed "passerbye" that apparently- now this is not factual but more a topic of contemplation- that The Unites States and United Nations has extraterrestrial contact with numerous civilisations in the milkyway, as part of the "behind closed doors" search for extraterrestrial life, and these civilisations are parallel civilisations of earth, with the same military industrial complex and same computer science systems and architecture i.e. CIA, NSA etc and all these politicians, generals, celebrities etc that you see, are nothing more that archetypal forms of the unconscious human mind as it exists within the structures of these military civilisations that are called "Egypt" this explains things like the pyramids etc. and they, the archetypal forms, Putin, La Pen, Obama, Hitler, Lady Gaga, Michael D Higgins, the Royals etc. are used, by the mysterious architects of these civilisations, so as to subjugate and control humanity as they turn a hunter-gatherer into a universal toy soldier as part of the future space-force earth.

The rabbit hole goes deeper, or should I say getting out of the rabbit hole goes deeper, but that is all I will say for now, I have much more information regarding financial monopolisation, political fraud by organisations such as the Gardai, Military Inside-Jobs regard 9/11 and high profile assassinations, all being covered up by the western criminal justice system and the very top of these criminal justice systems', the High Courts, the Magistrate Courts, the Roman Curia and even the International Court of Justice, in a desperate attempt to keep western governing bodies such as the UN and EU from collapsing, as making this public would result in the collapse of these organisations.

Allow us to get a friendly conversation going, no hostility and no herd mentality.

Dougal, is that you?