Landlord reporting my sister to PTRB

silent_spark

Julissa Scarce Sailor wrote: »

Cats absolutely stink regardless, you can smell a house that allows cats inside before they open the door and the smell is impossible to remove. Really don't know why people allow them inside between the smell and the damage the mind boggles never mind why any LL would allow pets in his/her property.

That big rat you smell is called bias.

What kind of manky cats have you had the misfortune of encountering? Any spayed/neutered cats I've dealt with haven't had any smell. The problem is with cats who aren't spayed/neutered marking territory, which could definitely cause an odour - and that's down to irresponsible pet ownership. Otherwise it's dirty tenants not cleaning up around their cat's litter tray (or bothering to hoover curtains and carpets properly, as in the OP). The same people probably wouldn't bother cleaning the oven or fridge before moving out. Damage specifically caused by some pets could be countered by an increased deposit for tenants with pets (and with small children etc), but the issue in this case appears to be a tenant not keeping their rented property clean - which isn't a problem particular only to pet owners.

OP - if your sister confirms a payment plan in writing, and sticks to it, I can't see there being any issue with the PRTB claim being dropped when the landlord has recovered their loss. However, I think her chances of a good reference from this landlord is pretty low either way. Chalk it up to experience.

Samuel T. Cogley

The_Conductor wrote: »

Also- what the hell is the story with people saying that if the landlord permitted the tenant to keep a pet- he should expect damage and has no comeback if/when it occurs. Normal practice for landlords who do permit pets- is that a 'pet deposit' be paid- over and above the regular deposit for a property- refundable in full- if there is no damage or other remedial actions needed when the tenant vacates the property (such as a deep clean)..........

If you want to keep a pet- fine, that is your business- but it is your business, you have no right to expect a landlord, or anyone else, to shoulder the financial cost associated with you keeping a pet.

People have some very odd ideas. While I wouldn't be with you on the deep clean side of thing, unless agreed in advance, I just don't understand why people think it's wear and tear for a pet to damage the property. If you are in rented accomodation and have a pet, how difficult is it to get the hoover out everyday? If it's a scratch, stain or similar, it's not wear and tear it's damage. Letting pet hair accumulate is just manky.

I expect the majority of pet owners are like MsDoubtfire and look after the place and get their deposit back, if they don't they should pay. Now don;t get me wrong - it's completely possible for a LL to take the mickey too, so reciepts etc. should be sought.

Also no issue with an RTB case and getting a new place, that's just the LL trying to scare you. References on the otherhand - but then he wants her out so I wouldn't be overly worried there either.

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Ms Doubtfire1

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

People have some very odd ideas. While I wouldn't be with you on the deep clean side of thing, unless agreed in advance, I just don't understand why people think it's wear and tear for a pet to damage the property. If you are in rented accomodation and have a pet, how difficult is it to get the hoover out everyday? If it's a scratch, stain or similar, it's not wear and tear it's damage. Letting pet hair accumulate is just manky.

There is a difference: if a LL accepts pets or children into the property, the RTB will allow a higher % for wear and tear. That's all I mean.IN case it would come to a hearing. I keep my house methodically clean and I have agreed with my LL a professional cleaning up to a value of 1,000 euro would that be deemed necessary by both parties at the end of the lease.That amount is in a holding account that can only be accessed by the 2 signatories together - my LL and Me. Further more an additional 50 euro gets paid in every month as renovation funds. I have always done that with all my LL - and it always was a lovely pot of gold I got back at the end of each tenancy...it works a treat.

Samuel T. Cogley

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On this point, the LL is a bit silly in not taking a pet deposit, but fair enough - possibly a reason. I'm still not entirely happy with the deep clean thing myself but that's just me.

Samuel T. Cogley

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

There is a difference: if a LL accepts pets or children into the property, the RTB will allow a higher % for wear and tear. That's all I mean.IN case it would come to a hearing. I keep my house methodically clean and I have agreed with my LL a professional cleaning up to a value of 1,000 euro would that be deemed necessary by both parties at the end of the lease.That amount is in a holding account that can only be accessed by the 2 signatories together - my LL and Me. Further more an additional 50 euro gets paid in every month as renovation funds. I have always done that with all my LL - and it always was a lovely pot of gold I got back at the end of each tenancy...it works a treat.

I'd be extremely dubious of this. The LL can't - not allow children. There is no reason why a pet should cause more wear and tear, especially something like a cat.

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lawred2

the deftone wrote: »

So landlord has threatened to report my sister to PTRB because of damage to curtains,couch and carpet. She has a cat and cat hair has "ruined" the curtains, couch and carpet and they need to be replaced.

The landlord is selling up and only brought this up just as my sister was looking for a new place.

Because she is saving up for the deposit and first months rent she cant afford to pay any extra money to the landlord before she leaves. She already said the landlord can keep the deposit but apparently that isnt enough.

Now landlord is threatening her with reporting her to the PTRB and told her if she reports her she wont be able to get a new place to live. Is this even true? Any advice on what she should do? I personally think the landlord is doing to do up the whole house before selling anyway but wants my sister to pay some of the bill. Thanks for any advice.

She is responsible for the damages to the property. What advice are you looking for?

For the life of me I can't understand the thought process of having pets in any rented accommodation that isn't a long term rental.

Ms Doubtfire1

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

says the person who won't rent to people with children or pets. I've rented for 10 years, always with pets - cats and dogs. never once did I not get my deposit back (in full) or was there any damage or smell left. You just don't know what you're talking about.Of course it's easier to discriminate isn't it? just putting another word on it.'professional' :rolleyes:

I wouldn't let them in my own house either nor were they allowed in the family home ever. Cats and dogs always lived outside and slept in sheds/kennels.

As for discrimination, there is no such thing as discrimination when it comes to allowing/not allowing pets. Why would a LL want to take the risk when there are a queue of people with pets (or kids) waiting to rent their place.

Ms Doubtfire1

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'd be extremely dubious of this. The LL can't - not allow children. There is no reason why a pet should cause more wear and tear, especially something like a cat.

I agree, it's discrimination. It's my experience that when someone advertises on daft for professional tenants they usually will not accept kids.(not a given though).I's easy enough to say property is gone.

But in case of any damage claim, the RTB will allow a higher % wear and tear..I came across it on a few rulings on cases...will see if I can find one of them back,was a while ago

Medicated Insanity

I rent, with a cat, indoor only.
Yes, I would like to see that it becomes more common to be allowed to rent with a cat (or pets in general).
No, the landlord should not be responsible for any damage my pet might cause and be out of pocket because of that.

It's the owner's responsibility. I wanted the cat, so I am the one to stick up for any damage - which in our case fortunately has not occurred. The curtains, rugs, and 'soft furniture' that might be scratchableare mine anyway.

And as a cat owner I am aware that a cat sheds, depending on the fur of the cat, one sheds more excessively than the other. What I don't understand is how carpets and curtains can get ruined by cat her (not trying to accuse the landlord here of trying to pull a fast one)?
I hoover twice a week, my curtains get exchanged and washed according to season anyway.

Now, we only have one side of the story here, whether the landlord is over exaggerating, or your sister didn't clean after her cat, but I am giving the landlord the benefit here, as the last two properties I rented where left in a terrible state by the previous tenants
(another thing that I don't understand why a lot of people seem to treat a rented accommodation like a dump. But that's a different story).

OP, it's your sisters responsibility to keep the place tidy, also damage done by the cat are your sisters responsibility. It's her cat. I suppose the landlord didn't throw the cat into the apartment when your sister moved in, locked the door, and quickly ran away.

Michael D Not Higgins

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I agree, it's discrimination. It's my experience that when someone advertises on daft for professional tenants they usually will not accept kids.(not a given though).I's easy enough to say property is gone.

But in case of any damage claim, the RTB will allow a higher % wear and tear..I came across it on a few rulings on cases...will see if I can find one of them back,was a while ago

The RTB must take into account what wear and tear is, especially considering the RTA 2004 Section 16 (f) and 12 (4). This must take account the different level of wear and tear depending on the occupation.

Grolschevik

silent_spark wrote: »

What kind of manky cats have you had the misfortune of encountering? Any spayed/neutered cats I've dealt with haven't had any smell. The problem is with cats who aren't spayed/neutered marking territory, which could definitely cause an odour - and that's down to irresponsible pet ownership. Otherwise it's dirty tenants not cleaning up around their cat's litter tray (or bothering to hoover curtains and carpets properly, as in the OP).

^^^
This.

the_syco

pilly wrote: »

1. If the LL allowed pets they should have anticipated damage.

The OP's post doesn't state that the cat was allowed.

pilly wrote: »

€2300 for a deep clean of an apartment? You're being ripped off.

It depends on the size of the apartment, tbh.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

That smell you never get rid off but neutered cats are fine, it's quite easy to remove, done it every time I moved and I have LOTS of cats.

When the person whose room I am now in left, he didn't think there was any smell. A month later, and the smell is nearly gone, thanks to lots of incense, mopping with vinegar, etc. Cat people usually can't smell the smell as they've lived with cats so long.

I find the main source of the "cat smell" is the kitty litter, and all that entails. Present room, I think the kitty litter box was just in the corner :eek: The previous tenants must not have been able to smell, as most cat owning friends have said just how bad the smell from the kitty litter box can be at times!

There is a "dog smell" but it's not as noticeable as the dogs will tend to poop outside, and get outside for walks. The dog smell is usually more noticeable, but dogs are (usually) easier to clean.

pilly

the_syco wrote: »

The OP's post doesn't state that the cat was allowed.


It depends on the size of the apartment, tbh.


When the person whose room I am now in left, he didn't think there was any smell. A month later, and the smell is nearly gone, thanks to lots of incense, mopping with vinegar, etc. Cat people usually can't smell the smell as they've lived with cats so long.

I find the main source of the "cat smell" is the kitty litter, and all that entails. Present room, I think the kitty litter box was just in the corner :eek: The previous tenants must not have been able to smell, as most cat owning friends have said just how bad the smell from the kitty litter box can be at times!

There is a "dog smell" but it's not as noticeable as the dogs will tend to poop outside, and get outside for walks. The dog smell is usually more noticeable, but dogs are (usually) easier to clean.

Didn't say the cat wasn't allowed either.

I would find the smell of incense 10 times more annoying than cat smell but different strokes for different folks.

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Ms Doubtfire1

the_syco wrote: »

T

When the person whose room I am now in left, he didn't think there was any smell. A month later, and the smell is nearly gone, thanks to lots of incense, mopping with vinegar, etc. Cat people usually can't smell the smell as they've lived with cats so long.

I find the main source of the "cat smell" is the kitty litter, and all that entails. Present room, I think the kitty litter box was just in the corner :eek: The previous tenants must not have been able to smell, as most cat owning friends have said just how bad the smell from the kitty litter box can be at times!

Litter boxes must be kept clean at all times. Cats hate dirty litter boxes, you wouldn't go sit on a dirty loo either.I have 1 cat who stays inside, he's a very old fella but his litterbox gets cleaned and washed out every day in the evening and scooped in the morning before work.Takes 5 minutes.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

pilly wrote: »

Didn't say the cat wasn't allowed either.

I would find the smell of incense 10 times more annoying than cat smell but different strokes for different folks.

Yea, so the only person it matters to really is the landlord in this case. Opinions on the matter are pointless.

NinetyTwoTeam

OP, just gonna bypass any needless arguing about smells and whether a LL should rent to tenants with pets and give you the best advice for your sister.

What matters here is what the cost of the alleged damage actually is vs the amount of the deposit and whether the cat was allowed. And whether or not the landlord or your sister has before and after photos of the allegedly damaged goods. If they don't have that, the landlord probably can't even keep the deposit legally - your sister can say it was like that when she moved in, if the goods are simply a bit worn/dirty. If there is substantial damage they likely won't believe that a LL would rent the property in that condition, but in any case your sister should clean the items and take pictures before moving out.

Do NOT, as another poster said, have your sister agree, in writing or otherwise, to agree to forfeit the security deposit pay the LL anything above the security deposit. If they are going to actually take this to PRTB this will go against you. The onus is on the landlord to prove that the damage was so bad that he should be allowed retain the deposit. She should not agree to allow him to keep any money or pay more if she feels the damage wasn't bad enough and should never admit to agreeing to this.

Have your sister take pictures of everything before she moves out, if it's just hair as you say, then it should be easy to clean and not be a problem. Like some other posters, it seems strange that a LL would seek payment over the security deposit and also a PRTB case if it was just hair. It seems a bit mad. But it's not impossible at all. I once rented a room in an old house with a manky carpet with a big stain on it. I covered the stain with a rug, when I moved out the LL tried to take money off my deposit for the stain claiming it was never there. I had photos of it though so she hadn't a leg to stand on. And I happened to know the girl who moved into the room after me and of course the stain was never cleaned before she moved in either.

Clean the place and take pictures of it all. Don't worry about the LL opening a case with the PRTB, she should actually after moving out open her own dispute with the PRTB for illegal retention of deposit if the damage is less than the deposit, and if it really is just hair and a smell, it should be less.

If it goes to the PRTB no matter who opens the dispute, to keep the deposit or get paid more the LL will have to prove - 1- that pets were not allowed, 2- that the damage occured during your sisters tenancy and not before, 3 - that the damage is above normal wear and tear, 4 - that the damage was so costly that the whole deposit should be retained along with additional money, and 5 - that they actually DID replace or repair the items before renting it out again, with receipts for the replacements/repairs and possibly pictures of the in situ.

The LL probably doesn't realize that they need to do all that, they are just making a threat, but the truth is if they don't prove all the above, your sister WILL be awarded her full deposit back. Or a portion of it, if they have say, a receipt from a cleaner that is less than the deposit.

And to answer your question, no this will not affect her ability to rent. Now, we have some pro landlord people on here saying 'Yeah well good luck getting a reference!', but those same people, when asked why LLs in Dublin won' t just take a reference and are insisting on bank statements, payslips etc from tenants, will turn around and tell you a reference is hardly worth the paper it's written on and anyone can write one.

Bottom line is, until the LL has concrete proof that damage occurred during the tenancy that is equal to or in excess of the tenant's deposit, they have no right to keep it or take any money from her and SHE should be the one going to the PRTB. And I suggest she do it before the LL does.

I don't see why pets being allowed should mean that the LL isn't entitled to compensation if the place is wrecked by them.

If I rent an apartment the LL knows I live there but that doesn't mean I can wreck the place so why would it be any different with a known pet or a child.

Yourself isit

Julissa Scarce Sailor wrote: »

I don't see why pets being allowed should mean that the LL isn't entitled to compensation if the place is wrecked by them.

If I rent an apartment the LL knows I live there but that doesn't mean I can wreck the place so why would it be any different with a known pet or a child.

I think people are questioning whether it was in fact wrecked.

The_Conductor

Yourself isit wrote: »

I think people are questioning whether it was in fact wrecked.

Anyhow- its pretty moot- the OP will have one viewpoint- other people others. Unless we saw 'before' and 'after' photographic evidence- its hearsay one way or the other.........

the_pen_turner

A friend of mine had a mostly white cat. The hair was everywhere. Friend was always hoovering . When the cat died she went about cleaning up the mess. . She Hoover's so much it over heated. She had to get out a tweasers to pull the hair. One at a time. . Hours of that and she had to remove the carpets. Nothing could clean them even my wet bag.

I would agree with the ll that if there are hairs everywhere then the carpet is ruined and needs replacing.

the_syco

pilly wrote: »

I would find the smell of incense 10 times more annoying than cat smell but different strokes for different folks.

The incense is to get rid of the cat smell. Not great, but it does the job.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Litter boxes must be kept clean at all times.

If the cat poops in the box at 8am, and the owners have already left for work, it may not get cleaned again until the owners come back at 6pm or 7pm. In that time, the smell will go everywhere.

Every day, for at least a year.

=-=

Washing the curtains will get the dirt out, but not the hairs.

An Ri rua

Castigating, I hope. Not castrating.....! Bit OTT

The_Conductor

An Ri rua wrote: »

Castigating, I hope. Not castrating.....! Bit OTT

Nope- they meant what they said.........

I love Sean nos

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Nothing could clean them even my wet bag.

I'm scared to ask.

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jamesthepeach

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This isnt true at all.

Im not sure how familiar you are with cats but they cover their toileting specifically so the smell doesnt go everywhere. If you watch, they will cover, smell around it, cover again, smell around, until there is no smell escaping at all. A cat hates a smelly litter tray and wont use it.

I think all of us who don't live in a house with a cat know there is a litter tray in the house the minute we walk into a house that has one.

We have cats at home in my parents house. When I'm there a few days i don't notice the smell of the litter tray or the cat. When i walk in the door after been away for a few days or weeks, it stinks to my unacclimatized nose.

It is emptied every time they do their business but the smell never goes away, you just get used to it and can't smell it while you are there.

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