Ban children from Pubs ?

Shenshen

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Push boundaries can mean lots of different things.

Children of smokers are more likely to become smokers.

Children of drinkers are more likely to become drinkers.

Certainly. So what you are advocating is for parents never to set foot into a pub themselves?
To reduce the statistical probability of their own children ever going to a pub?

Andy From Sligo

Malari wrote: »

No, but that's coming from the other side of the argument I agree with you, and I most often choose places that are not child-friendly for this reason.

great if you have the convenience and bonus of being able to choose between a plethora of establishments I suppose

pilly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont know the full ins and out of pub law (come to think of it I dont know hardly anything of pub law) - so if they did operate setting out their own rules and prohibit entry under a certain age , but it wasnt law , couldnt the pub be then sued or done for discrimination or something?

No, there is one pub I know in Dublin that doesn't allow children at all. Hasn't done for years. And it's always packed.

pilly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah no, not at all. there are times you want a nice relaxing meal without tired bored crying kids running around playing chase and acting up.. but wouldnt it be lovely that if you so wish a quiet meal like that , that you could book up in the comfort of that there is no blurred lines and that "This restaurant/pub prohibits under 18's by law" (or under 16' or 12's if you think over 18's is too harsh)

we might then be able to say I want to go out for a bite to eat , I now have a choice of tired bored crying kids running around playing chase and acting up in a fast food restaurant ... or do you know what I want to leave that all behind and relax , so lets go to that lovely quiet restaurant down the road...

No, personally I think there's room for compromise. Some child free places, some child friendly.

Winterlong

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont know the full ins and out of pub law (come to think of it I dont know hardly anything of pub law) - so if they did operate setting out their own rules and prohibit entry under a certain age , but it wasnt law , couldnt the pub be then sued or done for discrimination or something?

No they could not be sued in this case. There was an interesting thread on this in consumer issues a few months ago.

Andy From Sligo

armaghlad wrote: »

Think the onus is on parents to have consideration for other people dining/drinking in the establishment.

If you've a young child/baby/toddler who is likely to start crying/squealing/jumping/climbing/running about the place, maybe Nando's, TGIs, Frankie & Benny's, Mcds etc are more suited for you and your family.

Working in the trade I know that most staff would prefer this to be the case; and while we are more than family friendly, it does get annoying when when a crowd come in for lunch at 1pm and stay pinting until 6 (when we kindly ask them to leave) while their kids run about the place like demented eejits

I bet! - id hate to work somewhere like that in that environment. So would you say that you personally would like to work in an establishment where adults are only allowed? (that sounds wrong haha , but thats the only way I could think of to word it )

dub_skav

We already have laws about serving intoxicated people, perhaps enforcing that existing law would take away some of your concerns Andy.

Antisocial behaviour should not be tolerated, the fix is not to remove kids, it is to remove those acting in an antisocial manner.

Andy From Sligo

pilly wrote: »

Drives me nuts. Especially when kid comes over and sits beside you and you're supposed to laugh and find them cute. Fcuk off!

its even more creepy when your trying to eat or drink and this 6 or 8 year old kid just stares at you and dont say nothing! .. just stares, like they are staring you out .. or hypnotising you .... and you say "hello" ... and its met with silence and no facial expression. Had that a couple of times... whats all that about? :eek:

most probably been told not to speak to strangers but havent read the part that "you are not allowed to stare at strangers like some demented Damien from the Omen!"

Andy From Sligo

Winterlong wrote: »

In fairness, whether you are in a pub or in a cafe, restaurant or where ever, parents need to keep their kids under control.

and a lot of parents are failing at being parents these days and let their kids just do what they want to do. Its not the fault of pubs/restauant or anyone else but the parent I totally agree ...

But do you know what , when you have to *rely* on parents to do something and they cannot bring their children up properly (and maybe keep them safe) then its time for the nanny state to step in and take control ... sure , everyone suffers then , even the parents who are responsible, but what can you do. apart from a few silly stupid laws , laws are there for a reason .. and normally a good one. And to help protect people and people around them.

Andy From Sligo

dub_skav wrote: »

We already have laws about serving intoxicated people, perhaps enforcing that existing law would take away some of your concerns Andy.

Antisocial behaviour should not be tolerated, the fix is not to remove kids, it is to remove those acting in an antisocial manner.

I often think there is more to drinking than just Sober and then drunk .... many levels in between as the person drinks more, I have always thought that .

As soon as a couple of drinks have been consumed the barriers start coming down - they dont have to be blind out of their head drunk as a skunk to start becoming a problem or threat - I have seen and hear people get a bit more instrumental and graphic just after a couple of drinks .. especially if they are not used to drinking ... children should not be placed in or around that situation, there should be a certain amount of shielding we should still install, to make kids be kids and not rush their childhood.

- (if it were enforced) we already dont sell them fags or knives under a certain age, they are controlled what they can see and not see at the cinema, what computer games they can buy/play , what they can see on TV before 9pm. (nanny state in full force with all them rules) What do we do , ditch all them shall we as well, i presume these were all put in place to protect children

... but children dont need protecting from drunk adults in establishments that sell alcohol ? - something doesnt seem to add up and its very disjointed way of protecting children against some things ... but not others!

meeeeh

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

and a lot of parents are failing at being parents these days and let their kids just do what they want to do. Its not the fault of pubs/restauant or anyone else but the parent I totally agree ...

But do you know what , when you have to *rely* on parents to do something and they cannot bring their children up properly (and maybe keep them safe) then its time for the nanny state to step in and take control ... sure , everyone suffers then , even the parents who are responsible, but what can you do. apart from a few silly stupid laws , laws are there for a reason .. and normally a good one. And to help protect people and people around them.

What you are suggesting​ is a law that will cost pubs and restaurants customers (Sunday trade will be certainly limited) and will seriously limit the choice for families. You might be happy eating fast food slop but people want to be able to eat decent food when going out for family meal.

pilly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I often think there is more to drinking than just Sober and then drunk .... many levels in between as the person drinks more, I have always thought that . As soon as a couple of drinks have been consumed the barriers start coming down - they dont have to be blind out of their head drunk as a skunk to start becoming a problem or threat - I have seen and hear people get a bit more instrumental and graphic just after a couple of drinks .. especially if they are not used to drinking ... children should not be placed in or around that situation, there should be a certain amount of shielding we should still install, to make kids be kids and not rush their childhood. - (if it were enforced) we already dont sell them fags or knives under a certain age, they are controlled what they can see and not see at the cinema, what computer games they can buy/play , what they can see on TV before 9pm. (nanny state in full force with all them rules) What do we do , ditch all them shall we as well, i presume these were all put in place to protect children ... but children dont need protecting from drunk adults in establishments that sell alcohol ? - something doesnt seem to add up and its very disjointed way of protecting children against some things ... but not others!

Stick an aul paragraph or two in occasionally Andy, good man. Didn't read half of that, too difficult to read.

dub_skav

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I often think there is more to drinking than just Sober and then drunk .... many levels in between as the person drinks more, I have always thought that . As soon as a couple of drinks have been consumed the barriers start coming down - they dont have to be blind out of their head drunk as a skunk to start becoming a problem or threat - I have seen and hear people get a bit more instrumental and graphic just after a couple of drinks .. especially if they are not used to drinking ... children should not be placed in or around that situation, there should be a certain amount of shielding we should still install, to make kids be kids and not rush their childhood. - (if it were enforced) we already dont sell them fags or knives under a certain age, they are controlled what they can see and not see at the cinema, what computer games they can buy/play , what they can see on TV before 9pm. (nanny state in full force with all them rules) What do we do , ditch all them shall we as well, i presume these were all put in place to protect children ... but children dont need protecting from drunk adults in establishments that sell alcohol ? - something doesnt seem to add up and its very disjointed way of protecting children against some things ... but not others!

But all of these are already in place for alcohol (bar the cinema one). What you are saying is that they should not be able to watch someone preparing dinner if they use a knife, not be able to enter a shop that sells tobacco and not be able to watch TV at all because it may be inappropriate when they are not there.
They are more likely to see people with too much drink acting inappropriately in the street, as that is where the majority of fights (both verbal and physical) happen.

Plus, have you ever seen a row or lewd conversation in a restaurant?

Tombo2001

Shenshen wrote: »

Certainly. So what you are advocating is for parents never to set foot into a pub themselves?
To reduce the statistical probability of their own children ever going to a pub?

Personally, I never drink in front of my kids.

I would very happily bring my kids into a pub for lunch - however, I drink a club orange or a water; and so its not much different to going to a restaurant for us.

Obviously they can make their own choices when they get older, but they will make those choices from within the range of things they have experienced.

Going back to your earlier point about rebelling when they are teenagers - Irish society was practically teed up for kids to 'rebel' by becoming drinkers.

Kids took the 'pledge' at confirmation - it was a 'pledge' not to drink until they are 18 - ergo, its a granted that you'll be boozing at that point. And breaking the 'pledge' was the big act of rebellion.

Barry Badrinath

Andy, you have lost the run of yourself.

Can you bullet point your argument, you have moved on from the opening post.

Also, I only bring my kids to titty bars.

Andy From Sligo

meeeeh wrote: »

What you are suggesting​ is a law that will cost pubs and restaurants customers (Sunday trade will be certainly limited) and will seriously limit the choice for families. You might be happy eating fast food slop but people want to be able to eat decent food when going out for family meal.

Then , I am a great believer in that if laws were brought in that businesses will (and should) adapt. There could be restaurants with lovely meals that present restaurants offer .. but not sell any alcoholic drinks ... there could be present pubs / restaurants which still serve drink but have a great run childrens creche in place situated in the establishment, children are kept away from alcohol, adults can relax knowing their children are just next door or on premises (think this has already been done somewhere I remember reading it)

I love a nice glass of wine when out having a steak most times , if it were in a family friendly restaurant and they said "sorry sir , no alcohol is served here" then I would have to adapt.. have to have a glass of water or coke or lemonade or something ... if there was bottles of alcohol free beer I might even try that with my steak (I have yet to taste alcohol free beer/drinks yet - what are they like?)

Andy From Sligo

dub_skav wrote: »

But all of these are already in place for alcohol (bar the cinema one). What you are saying is that they should not be able to watch someone preparing dinner if they use a knife, not be able to enter a shop that sells tobacco and not be able to watch TV at all because it may be inappropriate when they are not there.
They are more likely to see people with too much drink acting inappropriately in the street, as that is where the majority of fights (both verbal and physical) happen.

Plus, have you ever seen a row or lewd conversation in a restaurant?

for streets there should already be a law of "Drunk and disorderly in a public place/area" - (I dont know if its enforced)

Yes, recently in a restaurant , just before christmas the table a couple of tables up was getting well rowdy - they were having a good time, the air was blue , it was about 10.30pm - lot of staggering going on ... but it was OK, absolutely fine, there were no children about to witness it .

Hector Bellend

Yes.

Unless they are prepared to buy a round

Jack the Stripper

Ban the pool table, ban the bacon fries and the johnny machine.

Boom_Bap

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Ban the pool table, ban the bacon fries and the johnny machine.

Ban chewing gum from the johnny machine

suicide_circus

Best to keep pubs as forbidden places of mystery, that'll keep the kids away from drink.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I think all under 18's should be banned from pubs or any establishment that serves alcohol on the premises come to think of it, like restaurants etc if they sell drink

- what do reckon? - too severe or do you agree?

It;s not the worst idea ever expressed in AH but it's in the top three...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Ban chewing gum from the johnny machine

Pretty sure the trade discriptions act already does that?

pilly

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Pretty sure the trade discriptions act already does that?

Think he meant people sticking chewing gum into the slot. :D

pilly

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It;s not the worst idea ever expressed in AH but it's in the top three...

The alcohol free pub has to be No. 1 surely? :P

Tombo2001

pilly wrote: »

The alcohol free pub has to be No. 1 surely? :P

I dunno -

I think the idea of a place where someone could just go to get a coffee - that might catch on.

pilly

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I dunno -

I think the idea of a place where someone could just go to get a coffee - that might catch on.

That's called a café.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Andy, you have lost the run of yourself.

Can you bullet point your argument, you have moved on from the opening post.

Also, I only bring my kids to titty bars.

Milk bars for a spot of the ultra-violince?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

pilly wrote: »

The alcohol free pub has to be No. 1 surely? :P

That's currnetly held by the guy who suggested you should only get an Irish passport if you speak Irish.

pilly

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's currnetly held by the guy who suggested you should only get an Irish passport if you speak Irish.

Oh right, that deserves No. 1 so. :D:D