Stolen Leaf

Shefwedfan

Nissan Ireland are aware if this issue and the 3 leafs stolen in the last two weeks. They said Gardai have told them that this is an Eastern European Drugs gang who are currently targeting Ireland (likely not the car with the keys taken through the letterbox but the other two driven away with no keys). He claimed that because drugs money is involved there is no shortage of funds to hack technology and stressed that this is not just Nissan leafs and a lot of high end cars are being stolen. Gardai have told them that the best deterrent is going back to the chain and the padlock around the steering wheel

On facebook if not seen

I need to keep an eye on poor old sparky

jamesthepeach

I haven't read the thread, but just a heads up.

A friend was just in with the guards and it came up about his leaf.
They told him that there is a gang hanging out at a fast charger near ashbourne and following Nissan leafs home. And then coming back a few days later and stealing them.
They do their need the key.

They had them on CCTV in ashbourne and know who they are but can't do anything as no crime happens that day. They picked that fcp because they can follow you without losing you in traffic and will probably follow you for around 20 mins before giving up if you haven't lead them to your home.

So watch out for suspicious people following after you leave the charger.

Allegedly they are much sought after cars for Robbin now. Expect all leaf insurance to increase next year if that's the case.

unkel

Did the guards share any theory of where these stolen Leafs are going?

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

Did the guards share any theory of where these stolen Leafs are going?

Clearly Hyundai trying to source parts to keep up with Ioniq demand

DrPhilG

The Leaf stolen last night has been recovered.

I'd rather never get mine back !

isnottheword

jamesthepeach wrote: »

A friend was just in with the guards and it came up about his leaf.They told him that there is a gang hanging out at a fast charger near ashbourne and following Nissan leafs home. And then coming back a few days later and stealing them.

There you go, @Balmedout & @goz83 - please put your listings back up on plugshare! Don't let plugshare suffer just because of this (seeing as they weakenss is elsewhere).


Plugshare listings of private charging is there for the benefit of the community as a whole i.e. it's a failsafe for the benefit of us all in a worst case scenario.

jamesthepeach

unkel wrote: »

Did the guards share any theory of where these stolen Leafs are going?

I was only speaking to him on WhatsApp. I'll find out if they told him anymore over the weekend.

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

There you go, @Balmedout & @goz83 - please put your listings back up on plugshare! Don't let plugshare suffer just because of this (seeing as they weakenss is elsewhere).


Plugshare listings of private charging is there for the benefit of the community as a whole i.e. it's a failsafe for the benefit of us all in a worst case scenario.

I never removed mine. I'm pretty sure I already mentioned that. I had only said that I understand why some would remove their listing. You been skim reading again?

isnottheword

goz83 wrote: »

You been skim reading again?

I'm not skim reading at all - either previously or now.

You said that plugshare was an issue (in this instance). I'm well aware that you didn't remove your listing but you either adjusted your listing or you had already left the listing vague....just what someone needs when they're frantically searching for an option away from home to charge when they're running out of juice.


As regards the 'again', you're wrong on that front also - and I called you on it (before anyone starts, you pulled that back in here).

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

I'm not skim reading at all - either previously or now.

You said that plugshare was an issue (in this instance). I'm well aware that you didn't remove your listing but you either adjusted your listing or you had already left the listing vague....just what someone needs when they're frantically searching for an option away from home to charge when they're running out of juice.


As regards the 'again', you're wrong on that front also - and I called you on it (before anyone starts, you pulled that back in here).

You're confused. That was someone else. My listing remains the same.

isnottheword

goz83 wrote: »

You're confused. That was someone else. My listing remains the same.

does your listing point to your actual address?

Otherwise, I did address 2 of you.

goz83

My posts in this thread. Highlighted relevant parts

goz83 wrote: »

I agree that it's unfortunate, but at the same time, it's easier to use the app to find where an EV is likely located and what EV will be there. You could be following an EV for a long time from a CP. Most users (myself included) have the type of EV they have in the app. I could understand why someone would remove theirs, but I actually think it's less helpful to drop a pin in the wrong place and say the CP is nearby. I would quicker run out of power and call a recovery truck.

goz83 wrote: »

If I was a car thief (and I won't confirm or deny it ) who wanted to steal me an EV from a persons home, I would not stalk an EV from a CP or a supermarket. I would open up an app that gives me the address of where the EV is likely to be. It's just easier to do that. That's why I understand if someone was to delete the app, or not sign up at all.

I had a BMW stolen from my driveway 7 years ago. The key was fished through the letter box. However, I don't let these things deter me from doing what I want and I have no intentions of removing the app. I just take precautions. I have CCTV and a good alarm system and other measures are in place. Unless I see evidence that the app has been used to assist in a crime, I will keep it as is.

goz83 wrote: »

If the new car was stolen, it's easier to replace insurance wise and there's much less attachment to it. You'd probably see it as a good opportunity to get a black one

A little off topic.....Having a car stolen from you is a horrible experience and a huge inconvenience. You wake up in the morning, and go about your normal routine. open the front door and you have a "WTF" moment. Did I park it on the street? Did someone else borrow it? Am I being punk'd?

Then there's the call to the Gardai and your whole day is fecked up. If you do go to work that day, it won't be in your car.

Then there's the call to the insurer and the form filling. Now you have to wait a couple of weeks to see if the car turns up before the insurer will pay out. You're not even sure if you will want it back, because some scrote has had their filth all over it. It might have been used in a crime. Some [snip] might have been going commando in the back seat where your kids sit.

If the insurers do pay up, it's usually less than what the car is actually worth and your premium goes up too. Not nice

isnottheword wrote: »

does your listing point to your actual address?

Otherwise, I did address 2 of you.

Yes, it points to an address.

The only change I have made to my listing is to remove my surname. I didn't realise it would show, so I removed it, as it wasn't necessary to have it displayed on the app.

isnottheword

Still addressed to both yourself and 'balmed out'. You were of a mind that this represented a logic to remove address - so I referred to you both. This being an example =>

goz83 wrote:

If I was a car thief (and I won't confirm or deny it ) who wanted to steal me an EV from a persons home, I would not stalk an EV from a CP or a supermarket. I would open up an app that gives me the address of where the EV is likely to be. It's just easier to do that.

Nothing more than that. :-)

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

Still addressed to both yourself and 'balmed out'. You were of a mind that this represented a logic to remove address - so I referred to you both. )

And the part of the address to me was wrong, because I made no change to my listing (aside from removing surname). My comment that I understand why others would do it and what I would if I was a car thief does not make right your incorrect direction and I still assert that the safest and most logical thing to do would be to remove the plugshare listing altogether. I just haven't done that. Instead, I wrapped the key in tin foil last night and I plan to build a little faraday box for it.

You might have best replied with "Sorry, I thought you changed yours too."

isnottheword

@goz83 - You seem to be taking things a tad personal (i don't know why). Bottom line is that a real life example has popped up of thieves that followed Leaf drivers/owners home from a CP. Apparently, that's not the way you expect it to go down.

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

@goz83 - Yu seem to be taking things a tad personal (i don't know why). Bottom line is that a real life example has popped up of thieves that followed Leaf drivers/owners home from a CP. Apparently, that's not the way you expect it to go down.

You made an incorrect assumption and personally referenced me and one other poster, in spite of what I have written on here. Instead of admitting that you took it up wrong, you make irrelevant references to my posts, which do not further your non existent point. I made very clear my "understanding" of why people would change/delete their plugshare listing. I made very clear that I was not planning to do that and I pointed out that amending a listing to be near your home was unhelpful.

You can't deny that a thief using plugshare would find a mark much easier than following people home from FCPs. So, the risk is clearly there.

isnottheword

Folks, don't let this nonsense cloud your judgement as regards participating on plugshare or otherwise.


@goz83: You're obviously upset - and that's regrettable - so I won't utter another word today on this thread if that helps...

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

Folks, don't let this nonsense cloud your judgement as regards participating on plugshare or otherwise.


@goz83: You're obviously upset - and that's regrettable - so I won't utter another word today on this thread if that helps...

Holy Jaysus. Blind.

You really are incapable of seeing past your own opinions and admitting when you made a simple mistake.

The fact is that Plugshare offers thieves a directory of addresses which could be used to target EV owners to steal their cars.

Come to think of it, I am coming to the conclusion that it would be better to remove my address from the app until proper registration and security measures are put in place. Right now, anyone can register and use it as a treasure map.

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

Come to think of it, I am coming to the conclusion that it would be better to remove my address from the app until proper registration and security measures are put in place. Right now, anyone can register and use it as a treasure map.

what is proper registration? What security measures can you put in place to alleviate the concern you have?


Generally I agree with your points, it could be used but if these guys want your Leaf they'll get it anyway!

goz83

KCross wrote: »

what is proper registration? What security measures can you put in place to alleviate the concern you have?


Generally I agree with your points, it could be used but if these guys want your Leaf they'll get it anyway!

Proof that you are an EV owner before you can access the maps would be a good start. Depending on how the behind the scenes works, maybe proof of identity.

If people ignore the risks and fail to take precautions, they are making it easy for thieves to take their property. A thief can only take something if they know where it is.

jamesthepeach

Hopefully since they ahve recovered a stolen leaf they can busted the whole thing.
If they got the robbers or the means by which they are exporting the cars then that's it busted and should be nothing to worry about for a while anyway.

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

Proof that you are an EV owner before you can access the maps would be a good start. Depending on how the behind the scenes works, maybe proof of identity.

If people ignore the risks and fail to take precautions, they are making it easy for thieves to take their property. A thief can only take something if they know where it is.

You won't be able to link someone accessing the map and a car being robbed. I can't see how any security measure on the website would help.

Personally, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I have insurance and CCTV.

isnottheword

To all other EV owners here - my plugshare is advertised as online and available to anyone who needs it - 24/7 - with full address, the precise address marked on the map, my name & number and a description of the charge point together with a picture of the charge point. Thieving is a part of life. We shouldn't destroy inherently civic-spirited things out of fear. I'd encourage others to offer the same. You never know when you could need a dig out in terms of needing enough juice to get you to where you need to go or to the nearest working FCP/SCP.

goz83

KCross wrote: »

You won't be able to link someone accessing the map and a car being robbed. I can't see how any security measure on the website would help.

True. But if only proven EV owners, and/or identified persons can use the app, the likelihood of it being used for criminal means becomes almost nil.

KCross wrote: »

Personally, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I have insurance and CCTV.

As do I. But have you ever had a car stolen? I used to use the "that's what insurance is for" line when people spoke about car theft....but after you have a car stolen, that line doesn't have the same meaning. If a thief really wants your car, he will certainly try his very best and will "probably" steal it no matter what. As I said, I have other measures in place. Lets just say they would have some big regrets if they stepped into my home, putting my families safety in doubt.

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

If a thief really wants your car, he will certainly try his very best and will "probably" steal it no matter what.

This is it. That's why we have insurance. If someone is going to steal my brand new car, so be it. As long as they don't threaten my family I really don't care.

goz83 wrote: »

I have other measures in place. Lets just say they would have some big regrets if they stepped into my home, putting my families safety in doubt.

:eek:

Maybe you have certain skills?

goz83

unkel wrote: »

:eek:

Maybe you have certain skills?

Acquired over a very long time.

Orebro

Call me crazy, but would it not be better to let the ba$tards take the car via laptop or whatever, rather than them entering your home to find your key? The signal blocking pouches are a good idea but if it raises the risk of them breaking in, I know which I'd prefer.

As usual, we're not allowed nice things in this country!

Shefwedfan

Orebro wrote: »

Call me crazy, but would it not be better to let the ba$tards take the car via laptop or whatever, rather than them entering your home to find your key? The signal blocking pouches are a good idea but if it raises the risk of them breaking in, I know which I'd prefer.

As usual, we're not allowed nice things in this country!

First off I wouldn't really call a Leaf a nice thing :P:P:P:P:P

As mentioned I would prefer if the f**kers wouldn't come near the house, if they are set on robbing the car they will take it. So let them off with it. That is why I pay insurance on the bloody thing.....after all it is only a car

Orebro

Orebro wrote: »

Call me crazy, but would it not be better to let the ba$tards take the car via laptop or whatever, rather than them entering your home to find your key? The signal blocking pouches are a good idea but if it raises the risk of them breaking in, I know which I'd prefer.

As usual, we're not allowed nice things in this country!

I suppose the thinking is that they'll go the laptop route with someone else's car rather than break in to get your key out of the pouch

Orebro

Augeo wrote: »

I suppose the thinking is that they'll go the laptop route with someone else's car rather than break in to get your key out of the pouch

Something tells me they're not the type to leave without the prize

isnottheword

Orebro wrote: »

Something tells me they're not the type to leave without the prize

Perhaps it's a case of the lowest hanging fruit. Which would you pick?

Orebro

isnottheword wrote: »

Perhaps it's a case of the lowest hanging fruit. Which would you pick?

Unfortunately they are still so (relatively) few and far between it's not like going up the road to rob another corolla.

isnottheword

Orebro wrote: »

Unfortunately they are still so (relatively) few and far between it's not like going up the road to rob another corolla.

I agree. However, some are setting out the proposition that to a certain discerning burglar, it's much handier to whip out a laptop in order to gain access to a Leaf than to break and enter and get the key/fob. On that basis, I guess we work on the assumption that such a burglar will seek out a Leaf. Presumably in that burglars mind, it's a case of lowest hanging fruit (the Leaf being easier to him as he doesn't have to break and enter)....

Orebro

Daily Mail I know, but this looks like the jobbie they are using: ‪ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4503762/On-Amazon-hacking-gadget-car-thief-s-dream.html‬

stesaurus

Not sure how true but someone on the FB group has claimed that the Gardai and PSNI discovered a warehouse with 30 different EVs all stolen and in various states of dismantling. Anyone any way of verifying this?

BoatMad

Orebro wrote: »

Daily Mail I know, but this looks like the jobbie they are using: ‪ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4503762/On-Amazon-hacking-gadget-car-thief-s-dream.html‬;

its all a function of crappy software and is exacerbated by keyless entry stupidity

having a properly encrypted radio would solve most of these " record and replay" attacks because you would have to break the encryption to hack the car

Note that the alternative method , is just using a booster to convince the car the key is near, thats different to the method mentioned in the daily mail

Again having a two way encrypted radio in the fob , would easily stop booster based hack attacks when combined with some simple deductive logic ( i.e. the key signal cant be inside the car and outside it at the same time and for example disabling the car if the key signal failed in the first 10 seconds

Orebro

BoatMad wrote: »

its all a function of crappy software and is exacerbated by keyless entry stupidity

having a properly encrypted radio would solve most of these " record and replay" attacks because you would have to break the encryption to hack the car

Note that the alternative method , is just using a booster to convince the car the key is near, thats different to the method mentioned in the daily mail

Again having a two way encrypted radio in the fob , would easily stop booster based hack attacks when combined with some simple deductive logic ( i.e. the key signal cant be inside the car and outside it at the same time and for example disabling the car if the key signal failed in the first 10 seconds

Whatever about it being possible to steal the cars with this method a few years ago, it is completely unacceptable and irresponsible that it is still possible to do it so easily today.

You'd think the insurance industry would have leaned on the likes of the EU by now to introduce legislation to implement what you mention above.