Why can't we as Irish people behave ourselves? Or can we?

Dr Crayfish

Do we ever hold street parties like they do in other countries? I know we don't in Dublin but perhaps elsewhere? I was chatting with my Dutch friend just now and he's celebrating Kingsday, which is an enormous party in cities in Holland were hundreds of thousands come out on the streets to drink beer and dance. I went a few years ago and it's amazing fun, little bars pop up on the streets and people bring out decks and play music etc.
I was in London during the Wills and Kate wedding and everyone set up street parties. One area had lots of bbqs making jerk chicken and lots of people set up stalls and people were drinking etc. There's also the Notting Hill Carnival and other big parties like this, really great events. Now you usually get a stabbing or two at the Carnival but it's rival gangs that would probably stab each other anyway, but not much trouble at all given something like a million people visit it.
Compare this to Ireland where you can't even buy a beer till 5pm on St Patricks day. It's no fun at all. I know we don't have great weather but it shouldn't stop everything.
People will probably say we'd all get too drunk and start rioting etc, which may be true, but why is that? Why do the Garda have to crack down on everything that's fun? Are we really that bad or are we just told we're that bad by the authorities? Is there something inherently wrong with us as a people that we can't behave ourselves? The English aren't that different and they seem to get by ok with these things.
It's a bit of a shame we can't come together and do these things and have a bit of pride and togetherness.

Parchment

Too many scummers.

Dr Crayfish

Parchment wrote: »

Too many scummers.

Why is that? Are we failing as a society? We must be.

Shenshen

Nobody willing to organise it, is my guess.

You seem to equate drinking with having fun.
No fun without drink.
Maybe that's the problem?

Parchment

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Why is that? Are we failing as a society? We must be.

I really dont know. I see stark differences when i go abroad - sure other countries have problems but like you said, they can go about their days without drama generally.

Dr Crayfish

Shenshen wrote: »

Nobody willing to organise it, is my guess.

Well we do have St Patricks day but they pretty much need to have riot police on the streets. It's absolutely awful, the Paddy's day thing, I don't know anyone who looks forward to it or wants to go into town.

You're German, you have Oktoberfest and Love Parade etc, things that could never happen here.

Dr Crayfish

bubblypop wrote: »

You seem to equate drinking with having fun.
No fun without drink.
Maybe that's the problem?

Most European parties involve drinking, yes.

Winterlong

I was at queens day myself in amsterdam a few years go. It is a great day out. Big community thing going on. You are right OP, it is a pity we cant have that type thing here....We need to crown a High King/Queen of ireland and celebrate him/her!

Dr Crayfish

Winterlong wrote: »

I was at queens day myself in amsterdam a few years go. It is a great day out. Big community thing going on. You are right OP, it is a pity we cant have that type thing here....We need to crown a High King/Queen of ireland and celebrate him/her!

Yeah it's the community and spirit of it all. They seem to have this pride in their country that we don't have, unless angry men in Celtic jerseys at Wolfe Tone's concerts counts

flazio

Maybe not in Dublin, but in places like The Spanish Arch in Galway it's all go.
Problem with events like this is the sue culture surrounding it, you'd have to hire the local Civil Defence or similar to provide ambulance cover, security guards which are expensive and Gardaí who would probably prefer to be doing other things.

Barry Badrinath

So because we dont have 'street parties' you think its because we are rowdy?

Mrs OBumble

Too much low level fetal alcohol damage in the population.

Balmed Out

There should be exceptions to the no drinking on the street for certain festivals within reason. I remember being in Galway for Halloween a few years ago and everyone was drinking on the street at night, Guards were very visible and there wasnt any trouble.

Dr Crayfish

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

So because we dont have 'street parties' you think its because we are rowdy?

Well I don't know, I'm just wondering why large gatherings of people don't seem to end well. I was living abroad at the time during the hot summer a few years ago, but riots broke out on Portmarnock beach and in Howth. A bit of sunny weather and it descends into chaos. What's wrong with us?

Dr Crayfish

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Most European parties involve drinking, yes.

There maybe drink at them but it's not the important part.
You seem to think not having drink means we can't have fun.
No drink till 5pm on paddys day, equals no fun.
Gardai stopping people having fun, again drink related.
I say that's the problem, the belief that we can't have fun without drink.

Pinch Flat

Ireland is a socially immature country with a huge cohort of scumbags. Lack of personal responsibility, respect for civic surroundings, other people and their property coupled with a self-centered and generally "me,me,me" attitude means we're way behind other countries when it comes to these things

Dr Crayfish

bubblypop wrote: »

I say that's the problem, the belief that we can't have fun without drink.

You seem to think we're alone in this. In Germany and Holland and England they drink too you know. I like a drink and I never cause any trouble.

Dr Crayfish

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ireland is a socially immature country with a huge cohort of scumbags. Lack of personal responsibility, respect for civic surroundings, other people and their property coupled with a self-centered and generally "me,me,me" attitude means we're way behind other countries when it comes to these things

Why did this happen though? Is it some post colonial insecurity or something?

kunst nugget

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Compare this to Ireland where you can't even buy a beer till 5pm on St Patricks day. It's no fun at all.

Where does this happen. Never had hassle getting a pint during the day on Paddy's Day.

Conor Bourke

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Do we ever hold street parties like they do in other countries? I know we don't in Dublin but perhaps elsewhere? I was chatting with my Dutch friend just now and he's celebrating Kingsday, which is an enormous party in cities in Holland were hundreds of thousands come out on the streets to drink beer and dance. I went a few years ago and it's amazing fun, little bars pop up on the streets and people bring out decks and play music etc.
I was in London during the Wills and Kate wedding and everyone set up street parties. One area had lots of bbqs making jerk chicken and lots of people set up stalls and people were drinking etc. There's also the Notting Hill Carnival and other big parties like this, really great events. Now you usually get a stabbing or two at the Carnival but it's rival gangs that would probably stab each other anyway, but not much trouble at all given something like a million people visit it.
Compare this to Ireland where you can't even buy a beer till 5pm on St Patricks day. It's no fun at all. I know we don't have great weather but it shouldn't stop everything.
People will probably say we'd all get too drunk and start rioting etc, which may be true, but why is that? Why do the Garda have to crack down on everything that's fun? Are we really that bad or are we just told we're that bad by the authorities? Is there something inherently wrong with us as a people that we can't behave ourselves? The English aren't that different and they seem to get by ok with these things.
It's a bit of a shame we can't come together and do these things and have a bit of pride and togetherness.

My home town held Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann two years in a row recently and it was pretty much exactly as you described in U.K. and Holland. For a week in August the town transformed into a massive party. People had a great time singing, dancing, chatting, eating, drinking, mingling from morning til night. It was an absolute pleasure. Pop up bars, shops and street-food vendors opened temporarily in disused buildings, the atmosphere was almost like a dream. I've been to the fleadh other years and witnessed more of the same. Of course there was some public order issues but nothing on any dramatic scale or that took from the overall enjoyment of the week.

The fleadh probably isn't hip enough for many people but I would highly recommend it. People of every age go to it.

Dr Crayfish

Cornelius Crow wrote: »

My home town held Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann two years in a row recently and it was pretty much exactly as you described. For a week in August the town transformed into a massive party. People had a great time singing, dancing, chatting, eating, drinking, mingling. It was an absolute pleasure. Pop up bars, shops and street-food vendors opened temporarily in disused buildings, the atmosphere was almost like a dream. I've been to the fleadh other years and witnessed more of the same. Of course there was some public order issues but nothing on any dramatic scale or that took from the overall enjoyment of the week.

The fleadh probably isn't hip enough for many people but I would highly recommend it. People of every age go to it.

That sounds great, nice to hear it doesn't always end in tears!

Dr Crayfish

kunst nugget wrote: »

Where does this happen. Never had hassle getting a pint during the day on Paddy's Day.

I meant off licences, I'm pretty sure they close till 5

kunst nugget

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I meant off licences, I'm pretty sure they close till 5

An off licence not opening until 5 is doing that off their own back. Paddy's Day is a bank holiday so normal Sunday times would apply to it.

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well I don't know, I'm just wondering why large gatherings of people don't seem to end well. I was living abroad at the time during the hot summer a few years ago, but riots broke out on Portmarnock beach and in Howth. A bit of sunny weather and it descends into chaos. What's wrong with us?

Is that not the exception rather than the rule? It was a bunch of fcuktard kids as far as I remember.

The gimmick that was Arthurs Day led to Dublin being packed full of street drinkers. I didnt see much hassle that I can recall. Much like most St.Paddy's Day's

Previous events in Iveagh Gardens have been the same.

I dont think its an "us" thing either. Im sure any large scale drinking session worldwide could kick off with a few drunk ***** just the same as in Ireland.

Just because there is an absence of something, it doesnt always mean its at the cause of something else.

Thats like saying "why doesnt Ireland celebrate a Mango festival? Ah its because we dont have licourice farm"......exactly.

What is it you want from this thread?

.Is it another chance to self loathe and as a nation, put ourselves down?

. Is it a chance to highlight and crib about social issues that we have no will to attempt to fix but just want to vent.

. Is it just to compare ourself against other nations just to highlight how "backwards, depressed, repressed and socially fcuked we are?

I dont think we need another thread where the core theme is "Ireland is sh1t"......its what we all make of it.

Dr Crayfish

kunst nugget wrote: »

An off licence not opening until 5 is doing that off their own back. Paddy's Day is a bank holiday so normal Sunday times would apply to it.

Ok I got it wrong but...

FIANNA FÁIL COUNCILLOR Mary Fitzpatrick has today called on Dublin off licences to “follow the example” of those located in the north inner city and not sell alcohol before 4pm on St Patrick’s Day.
For the last few years, under a voluntary code, off licences in the north inner city have agreed with gardaí not to sell alcohol before that time. Fitzpatrick said she welcomed the fact that off licences in the Cabra area have decided to follow suit this year.

kunst nugget

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

That sounds great, nice to hear it doesn't always end in tears!

Lots of events all around the country pass off like this with little incident throughout the year. Dublin I think has always been a bad buzz when it comes to Paddy's Day and the less said about Arthur's Day, the better…

A Little Pony

Seems obvious, no responsibility, you owe me a living type mentality.

Conor Bourke

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

That sounds great, nice to hear it doesn't always end in tears!

It's an amazing week. A lot of people travel from all over the world to come to it, as well as from the four corners of this country. Many people camp, and some people even rent out their whole house for the week to musicians/visitors. When we had the Fleadh in the 90s I remember people rocking up to our front door to ask if they could camp in our fields, it was so exciting to us kids! The next year my parents were more organised and packed us off to our auntie and uncle down the road at night while they ran an impromptu B&B! Things are a bit more organised now from the camping point of view at least, in that the fleadh organisers try to create designated pop-up camp sites and caravan/camper bases with proper facilities and car parks all in fields etc outside the town, with shuttle busses in.

I invited friends came over from the UK in 2014 for it and they were impressed at how enjoyable the whole thing was. Didn't get to go last year but hope to make the trip to Ennis this summer for at least one night.

pilly

Used to be street parties in my area when I was younger, they were great.

Dr Crayfish

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I dont think we need another thread where the core theme is "Ireland is sh1t"......its what we all make of it.

I don't think it's sh*t at all, I just wonder why we seem to lack the togetherness and pride of other countries. It's a great place to live but there's not a lot of civic pride, even compared to London, from my experience of having lived there.

AtomicHorror

They frequently allow outdoor drinking in Galway during festival times. Haven't gone in years but the atmosphere was always fun and friendly when I was there.

I guess it depends on how you pitch the event. Paddy's Day will always pull out a certain kind of crowd, but an arts festival, for example, will probably not be on their radar.

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't think it's sh*t at all, I just wonder why we seem to lack the togetherness and pride of other countries. It's a great place to live but there's not a lot of civic pride, even compared to London, from my experience of having lived there.

Ah I didnt mean you specifically. The general idea floated would expect negative responses.

I have to agree though, the last 10 political years have done little for civic pride. I hear more negative stuff weekly about Ireland than positive stuff.

Conor Bourke

AtomicHorror wrote: »

They frequently allow outdoor drinking in Galway during festival times. Haven't gone in years but the atmosphere was always fun and friendly when I was there.

I guess it depends on how you pitch the event. Paddy's Day will always pull out a certain kind of crowd, but an arts festival, for example, will probably not be on their radar.

Yeah I lived in Galway the year the Volvo Ocean Race stopped off and it was magic! The events that were organised were great but the off the cuff stuff was probably the best part- the first yachts arrived in iirc after ~4am Sunday morning so loads of people spilled down to the docks after the nightclubs to cheer them in, as well as bonfires being lit on the islands and all along the coasts to guide them in, which is such a lovely tradition imo. No much trouble that I heard of and the word was that it was one of the best welcomes they received that year.

Parchment

Cornelius Crow wrote: »

Yeah I lived in Galway the year the Volvo Ocean Race stopped off and it was magic! The events that were organised were great but the off the cuff stuff was probably the best part- the first yachts arrived in iirc after ~4am Sunday morning so loads of people spilled down to the docks after the nightclubs to cheer them in, as well as bonfires being lit on the islands and all along the coasts to guide them in, which is such a lovely tradition imo. No much trouble that I heard of and the word was that it was one of the best welcomes they received that year.

The Volvo Ocean Race was amazing. Great memories - there was a a wonderful atmosphere there.

J.pilkington

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well we do have St Patricks day but they pretty much need to have riot police on the streets. It's absolutely awful, the Paddy's day thing, I don't know anyone who looks forward to it or wants to go into town.

You're German, you have Oktoberfest and Love Parade etc, things that could never happen here.

Speak for yourself and your family! Not everyone gets wasted on paddys day.

My parents always brought my brothers and sisters and I to the local parade and we always had a great day witnessing none of the crap you are talking about, a tradition I am now doing with my son who also enjoys it.

I hate this Irish bashing crap

By the way you should go to Octoberfest (if you can afford it), it's far from how the picture postcard event you seem to think it is

jimmycrackcorm

Winterlong wrote:

I was at queens day myself in amsterdam a few years go. It is a great day out. Big community thing going on. You are right OP, it is a pity we cant have that type thing here....We need to crown a High King/Queen of ireland and celebrate him/her!

Both examples for the Netherlands and the UK revolve around their royalty. We've not been too happy with celebrating Lizzie and her predecessors hence we have no tradition.

Skatedude

we used to hold street parties all the time in phibsboro where my grand mother lived, always loved them and never, ever any trouble

Stars and Stripes

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well we do have St Patricks day but they pretty much need to have riot police on the streets. It's absolutely awful, the Paddy's day thing, I don't know anyone who looks forward to it or wants to go into town.

You're German, you have Oktoberfest and Love Parade etc, things that could never happen here.

You must not have been to the Oktoberfest no end of drunken yahoo behavior at it.

The Rape of Lucretia

bubblypop wrote: »

You seem to equate drinking with having fun.
No fun without drink.
Maybe that's the problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJ_l5qMrdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3d24gMHPU

Dr Crayfish

J.pilkington wrote: »

Speak for yourself and your family! Not everyone gets wasted on paddys day.

My parents always brought my brothers and sisters and I to the local parade and we always had a great day witnessing none of the crap you are talking about, a tradition I am now doing with my son who also enjoys it.

I hate this Irish bashing crap

By the way you should go to Octoberfest (if you can afford it), it's far from how the picture postcard event you seem to think it is

My family? Afford it? What? I've been to Oktoberfest in Munich, yes it's messy and there's people asleep everywhere but at least they allow it to happen. The one in Dublin is pretty good actually but it should be a lot bigger given it's popularity.

Sure bringing your kids to the parade is nice, but for grown ups it's not much of a National Day, for me anyway.

Shenshen

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well we do have St Patricks day but they pretty much need to have riot police on the streets. It's absolutely awful, the Paddy's day thing, I don't know anyone who looks forward to it or wants to go into town.

You're German, you have Oktoberfest and Love Parade etc, things that could never happen here.

Can't it? There's the Ploughing, there's got the Electric Picnic, down here in Cork there's a Jazz Festival...

There are lots of things happening here, too. But it takes a good bit or organising, and a street party won't just happen accidentally.
I used to live on an estate a while ago where the residents organised a BBQ every summer on the communal green area.

andekwarhola

We're all too busy navel-gazing about ourselves online.

sbsquarepants

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Do we ever hold street parties like they do in other countries? I know we don't in Dublin but perhaps elsewhere? I was chatting with my Dutch friend just now and he's celebrating Kingsday, which is an enormous party in cities in Holland were hundreds of thousands come out on the streets to drink beer and dance. I went a few years ago and it's amazing fun, little bars pop up on the streets and people bring out decks and play music etc.
I was in London during the Wills and Kate wedding and everyone set up street parties. One area had lots of bbqs making jerk chicken and lots of people set up stalls and people were drinking etc. There's also the Notting Hill Carnival and other big parties like this, really great events. Now you usually get a stabbing or two at the Carnival but it's rival gangs that would probably stab each other anyway, but not much trouble at all given something like a million people visit it.
Compare this to Ireland where you can't even buy a beer till 5pm on St Patricks day. It's no fun at all. I know we don't have great weather but it shouldn't stop everything.
People will probably say we'd all get too drunk and start rioting etc, which may be true, but why is that? Why do the Garda have to crack down on everything that's fun? Are we really that bad or are we just told we're that bad by the authorities? Is there something inherently wrong with us as a people that we can't behave ourselves? The English aren't that different and they seem to get by ok with these things.
It's a bit of a shame we can't come together and do these things and have a bit of pride and togetherness.

What the hell are you talking about - there are festivals, events and street parties the length and breadth of the country?

We don't have kingsday because we don't have a king! Well, except during the puck fair I suppose (which is one of those big party things we apparently don't have!)

Dr Crayfish

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Sure bringing your kids to the parade is nice, but for grown ups it's not much of a National Day, for me anyway.

What is missing for you? I don't know if you're in Dublin, but there's loads of things on for the few days around paddys day

jester77

Why not just organise your own?

Where I live we have a big get together every Summer, street is cleared, we put down benches and tables (and tents if it is too hot), we get out lots of BBQs, we rent some beer equipment and set up speakers. Everyone takes on some responsibility e.g. organising equipment, organising dates, setting up things for the kids to do (bouncy castle, games, etc), different foods, organising DJ sets, collecting money and so on

When everyone puts in a little effort then it is a great event. Whatever money is left over, we donate to local charity.

Dr Crayfish

Ok you're right, I started this thread on a whim, I didn't put enough thought into it, I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say, or maybe I just can't articulate myself properly. I just threw it out there as it's a discussion forum, but it's a total failure, I shall go back into my shell. I'd like to apologise profusely

Glenster

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

You must not have been to the Oktoberfest no end of drunken yahoo behavior at it.

I know I was an outrage at it last year.

Shenshen

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Ok you're right, I started this thread on a whim, as it's a discussion forum, but it's a total failure, I shall go back into my shell

I think you were just trying to compare apples and oranges, that's all.
You can't really transplant another country's festivals and celebrations, there's traditions and culture around them that don't exist here. Oktoberfests outside of Germany are a good example (as if it wasn't bad enough in Germany), they have no reason to exist other than as an excuse for drinking.
But there are plenty of "home-grown" festivals and parties here, and they work just fine. They're not exactly the same, but they shouldn't be. They're Irish. Not German, or Dutch, or British.

irishguitarlad

Here in the south of Spain young people are always drinking on the street with their own drink and there is never any trouble whereas if that happened in Ireland there would be pitched battles.

touts

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Why is that? Are we failing as a society? We must be.

There are too many "scummers", as the other poster put it, because our criminal justice industry is at best disfunctional at worst corrupt.
We need to reform the Criminal Justice Industry and return it to being a system that serves the public and not an industry that enriches the legal profession.

If you hold a party with 1000 honest decent hard working people all it will take is 4 or 5 "scummers" to cause trouble and end up with mayhem and press coverage that shames the whole 1000. Whats more if you had a guard on the door he/she could identify those 4 to 5 as they walk in and predict what could happen. If you put the local district justice or state solicitor on the door they would be on virtual first name terms with these 4 to 5 lads. They will have seen them in court dozens if not hundreds of times and not jailed them dozens or hundreds of times because by jailing them they therefore limit the number of cases that will appear in court and the money they can earn.

Firstly we need to hold state solicitors and barristers accountable for their mistakes. All should have an annual independent performance review and if they are found to have too high a number of cases struck out due to "unfortunate" paperwork "errors" they lose their position in the service of the state. Then we need to take the discretion out of the hands of judges. There should be a three strikes and your out rule. Commit three crimes and on the third one there is no option for "the poor box" or probation or early release. Third convictions get the maximum setence for that crime and no wiggle room for the judge.

Get the few hundred "scummers" off the nations streets and into jail where they belong and then the perception of Irish people and their ability to have a good time will change for the better.