entering a property after eviction notice

Mooooo

Mooooo wrote: »

If she isnt answering the door or phone and is still there call the guards as you suspect something may have happened to her

I think that would be wasting police time. We know she's alright.

My heart sank earlier when I took a second look at the notice letters my mum sent. The lease was signed in 2012 but is in her husband's name. Her husband is a local farmer and they both into this house in the town before splitting up, and he went back to the farm.

The problem is my mum has sent these letters off in the name of the lady, who was never officially the tenant.

I'm not sure if this helps or hinders us but my suspicion is it's a big setback as it may invalidate the previous notices.

I'm meeting a solicitor friend tomorrow for lunch, he practices locally but there are no landlord & tenant specialists in our local town. The nearest seems be limerick, 60km away, so I'll now make an appointment for next week. Jaysus Christ.

Graham

Legal advice is the best idea.

It's a long shot but you should ask your legal advisor if the person occupying the house is a licensee or a tenant. Assuming of course the current occupant didn't ever request to become a tenant from their original status as a lawful licensee of the tenant.

mrslancaster

As the original lease was signed in 2012, presumably the tenancy comes under Part4 rules at this stage? Can OP find out what tenant details / names are registered with the RTB?

Graham

mrslancaster wrote: »

As the original lease was signed in 2012, presumably the tenancy comes under Part4 rules at this stage? Can OP find out what tenant details / names are registered with the RTB?

Original lease wasn't signed by the current occupier apparently.

I guess there's a slim hope the current occupier hasn't requested a tenancy and are therefore a licensee although I have to say I very much doubt it at this stage.

Fian

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think that would be wasting police time. We know she's alright.

My heart sank earlier when I took a second look at the notice letters my mum sent. The lease was signed in 2012 but is in her husband's name. Her husband is a local farmer and they both into this house in the town before splitting up, and he went back to the farm.

The problem is my mum has sent these letters off in the name of the lady, who was never officially the tenant.

I'm not sure if this helps or hinders us but my suspicion is it's a big setback as it may invalidate the previous notices.

I'm meeting a solicitor friend tomorrow for lunch, he practices locally but there are no landlord & tenant specialists in our local town. The nearest seems be limerick, 60km away, so I'll now make an appointment for next week. Jaysus Christ.

You should consider pursuing the husband, who presumably has assets, for the unpaid rent. It could be that he remains the tenant and that she is a licencee he has permitted to stay in his leasehold. Pursuing him for the unpaid rent might shift the logjam, even if you don't ultimately take the rent arrears from him it might help reach a settlement.

mrslancaster

mrslancaster wrote: »

As the original lease was signed in 2012, presumably the tenancy comes under Part4 rules at this stage? Can OP find out what tenant details / names are registered with the RTB?

The husband's is the only name registered with the RTB and on the lease. I'm not aware of any new lease having been signed and nobody has heard of any verbal agreeemnet this lady had with my dad before he passed away.

He'd have been down there taking away furniture and repairing things occasionally, as has my mum, so we knew the husband had moved back to the farm but it's not clear whether anything was ever said. It was a sensitive situation.

Graham wrote: »

I guess there's a slim hope the current occupier hasn't requested a tenancy and are therefore a licensee although I have to say I very much doubt it at this stage.

If she's a licensee she basically doesn't have any rights to invoke, is that correct?

Fian wrote: »

You should consider pursuing the husband, who presumably has assets, for the unpaid rent. It could be that he remains the tenant and that she is a licencee he has permitted to stay in his leasehold. Pursuing him for the unpaid rent might shift the logjam, even if you don't ultimately take the rent arrears from him it might help reach a settlement.

True... It's not a huge town though and we're farmers as he is...it wouldn't look great to be sending legal letters to a man who is raising his children and seemingly popular. I know that doesn't make sense to some but sending a letter like that, threatening his assets, would be a black mark against you locally, when he did nothing wrong.

Word gets around.

pilly

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

True... It's not a huge town though and we're farmers as he is...it wouldn't look great to be sending legal letters to a man who is raising his children and seemingly popular. I know that doesn't make sense to some but sending a letter like that, threatening his assets, would be a black mark against you locally, when he did nothing wrong.

I know where you're coming from but he did do something wrong, his name is on the lease and he walked away from it.

On the other hand it would be very embarrassing for the wife if he doesn't know she's not paying the rent.

Is there no way you can possibly get to chat with this lady. She may be struggling since the separation or trying to get rent allowance or something?

muttnjeff

If it was me that owned the house Id be putting it up for sale. Who'd be a landlord in Ireland now? it is no longer a good investment.

pilly

muttnjeff wrote:

If it was me that owned the house Id be putting it up for sale. Who'd be a landlord in Ireland now? it is no longer a good investment.

I agree. I'm trying to hold on to my for my kids but it's such a strain. Losing money and stressed to bits looking after it.

jamesthepeach

pilly wrote: »

I agree. I'm trying to hold on to my for my kids but it's such a strain. Losing money and stressed to bits looking after it.

That's the reason I was holding on too but not worth it anymore. It's more of a liability now than an asset. Once you rent it you might as well be just giving it away. It's like you don't own it anymore, as the op has found out.

jamesthepeach

jamesthepeach wrote: »

That's the reason I was holding on too but not worth it anymore. It's more of a liability now than an asset. Once you rent it you might as well be just giving it away. It's like you don't own it anymore, as the op has found out.

As someone who is pretty new to the whole thing, I find it unbelievable.

During the discussion over rent controls, a lot of experts were exclaiming that constitutional property rights were *so strong* that it would be impossible. Well if that's true, how on earth did a situation develop where malificent tenants can live for a year or longer, rent free, in your property, and if you enter the property *you* will be the one trespassing?

I can't get my head round that. I rent myself in Dublin so I am trying to see this from both sides, but it's not like were we're talking about honest tenants here. The person in question seems to deliberately avoiding her obligations and just taking the piss, which apparently is not uncommon.

As a tenant, people like this infuriate me. As a person whose mum has been basically been the victim of a theft (esentially) it makes me even angrier. I don't understand why a more practical solution cannot be delivered, as long as notice has been been effected of course.

beauf

I think The rental market is about 70 or 80% landlords with one rental property. Open to correction on this. The govt policy seems to want discourage this in favor of large landlords and investment funds. Not entirely sure why, but that's seems to be the approach.

Hence the process of eviction is really only sustainable for people with deep pockets. As they can spread any loss across multiple properties and funds. Perhaps that's just coincidence.

The op at least now knows to go follow the correct process.

pilly

beauf wrote:

I think The rental market is about 70 or 80% landlords with one rental property. Open to correction on this. The govt policy seems to want discourage this in favor of large landlords and investment funds. Not entirely sure why, but that's seems to be the approach.

Yep 70%

Lumen

beauf wrote: »

I think The rental market is about 70 or 80% landlords with one rental property. Open to correction on this. The govt policy seems to want discourage this in favor of large landlords and investment funds. Not entirely sure why, but that's seems to be the approach.

Funds don't borrow from Irish banks and so pose no threat to the stability of the Irish banking system, which as as we know is backed by the taxpayer.

Gov debt is so high after the last crash that there is no capacity for another bailout.

Also, undiversified investment is risky so there is an element of protecting people from themselves.

athtrasna

Can we get back to the OP's issues please.

flowerific

If the Tennant ie the husband does not live there anymore and hasn't paid rent. I would enter the property as the woman living there is trespassing. I'd get a few of your family and friends to enter the property and start cleaning out the place. Call the guards also and report her as a trespasser

mrslancaster

flowerific wrote: »

If the Tennant ie the husband does not live there anymore and hasn't paid rent. I would enter the property as the woman living there is trespassing. I'd get a few of your family and friends to enter the property and start cleaning out the place. Call the guards also and report her as a trespasser

first off, I don't know anything about trespass law but have read some stories about squatters that caused serious hassle for property owners

my question is if the original lease was in both the husband & wifes names as they were a married couple, and then the husband left, is the wife actually a joint tenant and just not paying her rent or could LL have similar hassle

flowerific

mrslancaster wrote: »

first off, I don't know anything about trespass law but have read some stories about squatters that caused serious hassle for property owners

my question is if the original lease was in both the husband & wifes names as they were a married couple, and then the husband left, is the wife actually a joint tenant and just not paying her rent or could LL have similar hassle

Get her out before shes there long enough to avail of squatters rights.

antoinolachtnai

flowerific wrote: »

If she's not on the lease or paying then she has no rights to be there and is trespassing. If she's not a Tennant then Tennant right don't apply to her.

Be sure to get this legal advice in writing from your solicitor before you act on it. Maybe make sure he or she has insurance and law society membership up to date too.

The problem is that this person, despite the wrong things she may have done, has made her home in this place, legitimately, and that gives her a measure of legal protection.

jamesthepeach

Be careful op.
You'll find that the person living in your house has more rights over it than you do.
She might as well be the onw who ows it.

99problems

flowerific wrote:

If she's not on the lease or paying then she has no rights to be there and is trespassing. If she's not a Tennant then Tennant right don't apply to her.

And what has that got to do with ruining the farmers name ?

endacl

flowerific wrote: »

Get her out before shes there long enough to avail of squatters rights.

Its called adverse possesion. It would 12 years of continued unchallenged occupancy without ever having paid rent to establish.

mrslancaster

endacl wrote: »

Its called adverse possesion. It would 12 years of continued unchallenged occupancy without ever having paid rent to establish.

good to know the correct legal terminology. op's original query is of interest to me as i'm trying to understand the minefield of regulations about tenants - it seems very complex to a non-legal person. you appear to know a fair bit so thanks for sharing

jamesthepeach

mrslancaster wrote: »

good to know the correct legal terminology. op's original query is of interest to me as i'm trying to understand the minefield of regulations about tenants - it seems very complex to a non-legal person. you appear to know a fair bit so thanks for sharing

All.you need to know if that one you go into long term letting you are giving up your property. The tenant has all the power and the owner has none. All the rules apply to the landlord and he gets punished for breaking any, even getting a date worng by a day on a piece of paper. The tenant can break all of the rules or leases etc that they want and nothing will happen to them.

You might as well just hand them the keys and say it's all yours now. I'll pay and you do what you like. You don't even have to pay me rent if you don't feel like it.

TheDoc

Dexter Wet Locomotive wrote: »

10k for entering? Nonsense.

I know what I'd do if I was the op but I'll keep that to myself.

Assume it's the same thing I'm thinking of while reading

Is there anything to be said for knocking in at some stage to just have a civil conversation be it inside or at the door? Pretty sure there is no law against knocking on someones door. She ignores she ignores, just go down the route of getting eviction.

But you seem to be generally sympathetic to the situation as I'm sure we all are, although granted I'd have some respect of the service arrangement I was in, but if she doors answer perhaps an adult, calm conversation can take place to get things sorted?

That your mother is 8 months rent down is laughable at this stage and maybe you need to lose the sympathy to her situation and get the ball rolling for eviction and potential claims of backdated rent or something?

I'm absolutely delighted to be out of the rental market now, but it's tenants like this that really annoyed me. It's enough dealing with cowboy, brutal landlords that are out there, but tenants that take the piss just maintains the cycle of everyone being suspicious and ridiculous

seamus

flowerific wrote: »

If the Tennant ie the husband does not live there anymore and hasn't paid rent. I would enter the property as the woman living there is trespassing. I'd get a few of your family and friends to enter the property and start cleaning out the place. Call the guards also and report her as a trespasser

This is absolutely awful advice unless you are 100% certain about the situation.

Bloody hell, the trouble you could find yourself in - actual criminal convictions - for doing this without rock-solid knowledge that it's OK.

Even if she's technically a licensee I can guarantee you that if push came to shove the Gardai would side with the woman who's been living in the house for five years versus the guy who's acting on behalf of the landlord and trying to turf her onto the street. They'd tell you to go get a court order or face arrest.

As others have said here, do your best to get talking to her. The path which is most likely to lead to a satisfactory resolution for everyone is the one where you talk to her like an adult, even if she has avoided acting like one.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

This is absolutely awful advice unless you are 100% certain about the situation.

Bloody hell, the trouble you could find yourself in - actual criminal convictions - for doing this without rock-solid knowledge that it's OK.

Even if she's technically a licensee I can guarantee you that if push came to shove the Gardai would side with the woman who's been living in the house for five years versus the guy who's acting on behalf of the landlord and trying to turf her onto the street. They'd tell you to go get a court order or face arrest.

As others have said here, do your best to get talking to her. The path which is most likely to lead to a satisfactory resolution for everyone is the one where you talk to her like an adult, even if she has avoided acting like one.

Its a civil matter so no matter what there won't be any criminal convictions, the Gardai won't even get involved. Talk about scaremongering.

It's no wonder tenants are getting away with so much reading the likes of this, far too much tip toeing around rather than going for the jugular.

pilly

Dexter Wet Locomotive wrote: »

Its a civil matter so no matter what there won't be any criminal convictions, the Gardai won't even get involved. Talk about scaremongering.

It's no wonder tenants are getting away with so much reading the likes of this, far too much tip toeing around rather than going for the jugular.

Get a grip nox! I agree tenants are getting away with murder but entering a house that someone is living in without permission is certainly a criminal matter and the Gardaí definitely would get involved.

lucernarian

Bit of hysteria in this thread over landlord rights. Considering there are recent court orders against tenants for overstaying, published on the PRTB website, I don't think tenants are allowed to do what they want??

pilly

lucernarian wrote: »

Bit of hysteria in this thread over landlord rights. Considering there are recent court orders against tenants for overstaying, published on the PRTB website, I don't think tenants are allowed to do what they want??

How long did these tenants overstay? And what % do you think paid any judgement made against them?