Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

boardsuser1

Cllr Marcia D'Alton has replied to me on Facebook saying that Harrington has a background in the HGV sector.

His Facebook page says different,also if he does, i'd be of the impression it was many years ago and not in more modern times where emission standards have changed drastically.

boardsuser1

Here is the EU directive on Euro 1 to Euro 6 from 1993 to 2014 on emissions.

Trucks are far cleaner now than ever.

Euro 1 (1993):
For passenger cars—91/441/EEC.[9]
Also for passenger cars and light trucks—93/59/EEC.
Euro 2 (1996) for passenger cars—94/12/EC (& 96/69/EC)
For motorcycle—2002/51/EC (row A)[10]—2006/120/EC
Euro 3 (2000) for any vehicle—98/69/EC[11]
For motorcycle—2002/51/EC (row [10]—2006/120/EC
Euro 4 (2005) for any vehicle—98/69/EC (& 2002/80/EC)
Euro 5 (2009/9) for light passenger and commercial vehicles—715/2007/EC[12]
Euro 6 (2014) for light passenger and commercial vehicles—459/2012/EC[13]

Aontachtoir

Incorrectly headlined Irish Times article on the end of the hearing: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hearing-into-planned-220m-upgrade-of-n20-in-cork-concludes-1.3313836

Note that the December 21st planning decision target is no longer expected to be met, so we'll most likely be waiting until well into the New Year to find out the fate of the road.

marno21

Article from the Times on the "N20" upgrade

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hearing-into-planned-220m-upgrade-of-n20-in-cork-concludes-1.3313836

Says unfortunately the 21 December deadline may not be met due to the volume of complaints

boardsuser1

Sylvester Cotter focusing in on Articulated trucks.


‘Quality of life’
Sylvester Cotter, a former county councillor from Rochestown, said it appeared as if Transport Infrastructure Ireland and Cork County Council were intent on “bulldozing the M28 project through the Mulcon Valley in Rochestown without any regard for the health or quality of life of the residents”.
Mr Cotter said that those opposed to the suggested route were fully committed to the idea of Ringaskiddy becoming a Trans European Transport Network but believe a more suitable route would involve providing a link via Cork Airport on the southern hills overlooking Cork city.
“This alternative route would be complementary to the upgrade of the N20 Cork-Limerick road to a motorway servicing the Mid-West,” said Mr Cotter.
He said that sending Port of Cork traffic through the Mulcon valley was an accident waiting to happen given the steep decline from Carr’s Hill down to Rochestown. Mr Cotter said he dreaded to think what would happen if an articulated lorry with a hazardous or explosive substance was to crash"

Below is an incident in 2006 on the Shannonpark Roundabout. No mention of this by them anywhere.

I know the driver personally of that truck,he admitted it was his error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/100-gallons-of-acid-spill-on-cork-road-1.1043811

Reputable Rog

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Sylvester Cotter focusing in on Articulated trucks.


‘Quality of life’
Sylvester Cotter, a former county councillor from Rochestown, said it appeared as if Transport Infrastructure Ireland and Cork County Council were intent on “bulldozing the M28 project through the Mulcon Valley in Rochestown without any regard for the health or quality of life of the residents”.
Mr Cotter said that those opposed to the suggested route were fully committed to the idea of Ringaskiddy becoming a Trans European Transport Network but believe a more suitable route would involve providing a link via Cork Airport on the southern hills overlooking Cork city.
“This alternative route would be complementary to the upgrade of the N20 Cork-Limerick road to a motorway servicing the Mid-West,” said Mr Cotter.
He said that sending Port of Cork traffic through the Mulcon valley was an accident waiting to happen given the steep decline from Carr’s Hill down to Rochestown. Mr Cotter said he dreaded to think what would happen if an articulated lorry with a hazardous or explosive substance was to crash"

Below is an incident in 2006 on the Shannonpark Roundabout. No mention of this by them anywhere.

I know the driver personally of that truck,he admitted it was his error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/100-gallons-of-acid-spill-on-cork-road-1.1043811

What would happen if an articulated lorry carrying hazardous material crashed this evening?

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

What would happen if an articulated lorry carrying hazardous material crashed this evening?

In the link provided the same scenario occurred in 2006, i assume it would be no different today.

Knowing Harrington though he'd call for the imminent closure of the N28 :rolleyes:

Aontachtoir

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Sylvester Cotter focusing in on Articulated trucks.


‘Quality of life’
Sylvester Cotter, a former county councillor from Rochestown, said it appeared as if Transport Infrastructure Ireland and Cork County Council were intent on “bulldozing the M28 project through the Mulcon Valley in Rochestown without any regard for the health or quality of life of the residents”.
Mr Cotter said that those opposed to the suggested route were fully committed to the idea of Ringaskiddy becoming a Trans European Transport Network but believe a more suitable route would involve providing a link via Cork Airport on the southern hills overlooking Cork city.
“This alternative route would be complementary to the upgrade of the N20 Cork-Limerick road to a motorway servicing the Mid-West,” said Mr Cotter.
He said that sending Port of Cork traffic through the Mulcon valley was an accident waiting to happen given the steep decline from Carr’s Hill down to Rochestown. Mr Cotter said he dreaded to think what would happen if an articulated lorry with a hazardous or explosive substance was to crash"

Below is an incident in 2006 on the Shannonpark Roundabout. No mention of this by them anywhere.

I know the driver personally of that truck,he admitted it was his error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/100-gallons-of-acid-spill-on-cork-road-1.1043811

What would happen if an articulated lorry carrying hazardous material crashed this evening?

That would be different. That's on a road with green signs, not blue signs.

kub

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Sylvester Cotter focusing in on Articulated trucks.


‘Quality of life’
Sylvester Cotter, a former county councillor from Rochestown, said it appeared as if Transport Infrastructure Ireland and Cork County Council were intent on “bulldozing the M28 project through the Mulcon Valley in Rochestown without any regard for the health or quality of life of the residents”.
Mr Cotter said that those opposed to the suggested route were fully committed to the idea of Ringaskiddy becoming a Trans European Transport Network but believe a more suitable route would involve providing a link via Cork Airport on the southern hills overlooking Cork city.
“This alternative route would be complementary to the upgrade of the N20 Cork-Limerick road to a motorway servicing the Mid-West,” said Mr Cotter.
He said that sending Port of Cork traffic through the Mulcon valley was an accident waiting to happen given the steep decline from Carr’s Hill down to Rochestown. Mr Cotter said he dreaded to think what would happen if an articulated lorry with a hazardous or explosive substance was to crash"

Below is an incident in 2006 on the Shannonpark Roundabout. No mention of this by them anywhere.

I know the driver personally of that truck,he admitted it was his error.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/100-gallons-of-acid-spill-on-cork-road-1.1043811

Let me tell you guys a little story about this guy and i reckin it is the same mentality as the NIMBY brigade.

Out of curiosity back in the mid 90's I attended a meeting about a proposed development by O Flynn construction, it is now Mount Oval.

Anyway this Mr Cotter nearly had a break down when he heard that semi detached houses would be part of that development.
I quote him ' you mean to tell me that semi detached housing will be part of this development ? In this area '

This is the mind set here folks.

kub

marno21 wrote: »

Lots of fearmongering about trucks jackknifing into Rochestown on the Taliban Facebook page at the minute. Using words such as "SHOCKING" and "HORRIFIC" is not indicative of a group looking to have their voices heard but a militant group looking to strike fear into peoples minds.

I see that the Facebook page also recommends Harrington, the "traffic expert", as a local representative. So the whole circus has been to launch Harrington's political career. God help us.

That sort of rubbish about him going into politics sums up the petty mind set, in politics in this country.
Leave him off, will be interesting to see how the "10,000" vote.

Reputable Rog wrote: »

What would happen if an articulated lorry carrying hazardous material crashed this evening?

Considering that incident was in 2006, that is now 11 years ago and i bet a few thousand trucks have used that road and have not crashed, so the law of averages makes that very low.

Reputable Rog

What I'm trying to say is that an accident involving chemicals would be equally catastrophic on either the motorway or the existing N28.

boardsuser1

kub wrote: »

That sort of rubbish about him going into politics sums up the petty mind set, in politics in this country.
Leave him off, will be interesting to see how the "10,000" vote.



Considering that incident was in 2006, that is now 11 years ago and i bet a few thousand trucks have used that road and have not crashed, so the law of averages makes that very low.

Even at that it wasn’t a crash.

He was running late so decided to take shortcuts and didn’t bother to strap down the containers.

He’s still with the same company on the same road week in week out ever since and without incident.

I won’t name the company for obvious reasons but let’s just say he was feeling “a little bit blue” afterwards :pac:

I totally dismiss any arguments in relation to trucks from Harrington & co.

Maxol in Ballinrea rely heavily on truckers for their lunchtime trade as evidenced by the big parking lot adjacent to the petrol station.

marno21

Light reading for your Saturday night

https://www.corkchamber.ie/UserFiles/file/Publications/Cork%20to%20World%20-%20An%20Economic%20Assessment%20of%20the%20N28%20Cork%20to%20Ringaskiddy.pdf

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Light reading for your Saturday night

https://www.corkchamber.ie/UserFiles/file/Publications/Cork%20to%20World%20-%20An%20Economic%20Assessment%20of%20the%20N28%20Cork%20to%20Ringaskiddy.pdf

In fairness, this is a 2010 report concerned only with economic development. The same arguments would apply to any route chosen for the new motorway. The only impacts it sees are positive and there is no mention ,that I saw of the Northern section - its as unbiased as the Steering Group Facebook page!

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

In fairness, this is a 2010 report concerned only with economic development. The same arguments would apply to any route chosen for the new motorway. The only impacts it sees are positive and there is no mention ,that I saw of the Northern section - its as unbiased as the Steering Group Facebook page!

All of that is true. 😊 I found it on my computer while clearing out so I posted it up. I left no comment with it so that people can make their own mind up about it

boardsuser1

The Taliban appear very "popular" on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/M28steering?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Faltroutem28.com%2F

kub

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The Taliban appear very "popular" on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/M28steering?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Faltroutem28.com%2F

10,000 people, wow, they would have been better off hiring Pairc Ui Chaomh, I don't know how they will all fit into the Rochestown Park

boardsuser1

kub wrote: »

10,000 people, wow, they would have been better off hiring Pairc Ui Chaomh, I don't know how they will all fit into the Rochestown Park

They wouldn't fill the front row of seats never mind the entire stadium :pac:

From my understanding they are a group of 45 "representing 10,000 people"

Of the 45 i suspect many are husband and wife.

If you look at the taliban facebook page,Harrington's wife is fairly active as well, Collins is her name if i remember correctly.

Here is the latest photoshop by them
https://www.facebook.com/175111606272101/photos/pcb.381932838923309/381930448923548/?type=3&theater

By "ALTERNATIVE" they really mean Ballygarvan.

Middle Man

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

They wouldn't fill the front row of seats never mind the entire stadium :pac:

From my understanding they are a group of 45 "representing 10,000 people"

Of the 45 i suspect many are husband and wife.

If you look at the taliban facebook page,Harrington's wife is fairly active as well, Collins is her name if i remember correctly.

Here is the latest photoshop by them
https://www.facebook.com/175111606272101/photos/pcb.381932838923309/381930448923548/?type=3&theater

By "ALTERNATIVE" they really mean Ballygarvan.

I really hope ABP do us all a favour for Christmas - just get that road approved and end it all!

boardsuser1

Middle Man wrote: »

I really hope ABP do us all a favour for Christmas - just get that road approved and end it all!

We'll have to organise a Pro M28 via the N28 party in the Maryborough hotel then and invite the steering group :pac::pac::pac:

boardsuser1

More of the same scaremongering.

https://www.facebook.com/175111606272101/photos/pcb.381920285591231/381918852258041/?type=3&theater

marno21

"The residents want their voices heard".

Ok mate. Either Harrington knows hes beaten and is throwing the kitchen sink at it or else he has serious problems. Himself and the rest should be ashamed of themselves.

Middle Man

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

More of the same scaremongering.

https://www.facebook.com/175111606272101/photos/pcb.381920285591231/381918852258041/?type=3&theater

Hopefully, this is a desperate last ditch attempt before it's all ended come December 21st. Shame on them IMO!

boardsuser1

Middle Man wrote: »

Hopefully, this is a desperate last ditch attempt before it's all ended come December 21st. Shame on them IMO!

It’ll be short lived even if the December 21st decision is delivered on time which I don’t see happening.

Appeals through the courts appear to be on the cards for them next in the form of a judicial review.

marno21

Even if we have a decision by the 21st, there will be an immediate Taliban lead appeal. Absolutely no chance of them leaving it there.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Even if we have a decision by the 21st, there will be an immediate Taliban lead appeal. Absolutely no chance of them leaving it there.

Where is the funding coming from? Paul Kelleher is their treasurer but I never see them fundraising.

Will they take this case to the ECJ I’d love to know.

Middle Man

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

It’ll be short lived even if the December 21st decision is delivered on time which I don’t see happening.

Appeals through the courts appear to be on the cards for them next in the form of a judicial review.

AFAIK, that's only if they can prove they have a legal case regarding ABPs conduct in light of the pertinent legislative requirements. I doubt very much that the courts will have anything to do with any particular aspect of the scheme itself.

Middle Man

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Where is the funding coming from? Paul Kelleher is their treasurer but I never see them fundraising.

Will they take this case to the ECJ I’d love to know.

That is a good question if this gets dragged through the courts - I think such interests (including the likes of Sweetman) should have to disclose their sources of funding - it's only fair.

Aontachtoir

Middle Man wrote: »

AFAIK, that's only if they can prove they have a legal case regarding ABPs conduct in light of the pertinent legislative requirements.  I doubt very much that the courts will have anything to do with any particular aspect of the scheme itself.

Correct - ABP is the last to make a decision on the planning merits of the case. That said a handful of objectors can hold up planning for a long time. Look at the Apple data centre in Athenry, held up for two years and now unlikely to ever be built.

Middle Man

We need a massive overhaul of every aspect of planning in this country, including how objections are handled. The extra competition that Ireland will now face (Trump's economic policy and Brexit) will hopefully act as the kick up the rear that Irish society so badly needs. It reminds me of the time when there was a lack of appetite for constructing Dublin's current 10/28 runway back in the 1980's - as the old main runway was cracking, airlines were AFAIK talking about pulling out - well one can guess what happened thereafter. It serves as a very important lesson regarding the value of infrastructural investment in order to keep pace with ever evolving challenges - social, economic and environmental.