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Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

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    #722
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How does the Bord stand over the project splitting by not making sustainable transport an integral part of the project?
    the ejits in abp wrote:
    would provide opportunities to develop sustainable transport projects
    (including walking, cycling and public transport) in the general vicinity

    Sustainable travel should have been a condition of the project, Carrigaline is one of the most car dependent towns in Ireland, building a motorway there and not providing for alternatives is a major mistake in this day and age.
    The volume of people cycling between the two destinations can be accomodated on the old N28 which will be quieter now.

    This is a motorway leading to the orbital road of Cork, which will be a motorway. It should have zero pedestrians or cyclists on it. I don't see any provision for these on the M50 or M1 (which have their own access issues for peds/cyclists due to the Westlink and the Broadmeadow bridge).

    Cyclist facilities is an issue for Cork County Council and the NTA.


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    #723
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    It really wouldn’t take much effort to put cycle lanes on the old N28 now. That and I’d also have a path for pedestrians the entire way from Carrigaline to Douglas. Why not I guess.


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    #724
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    It really wouldn’t take much effort to put cycle lanes on the old N28 now. That and I’d also have a path for pedestrians the entire way from Carrigaline to Douglas. Why not I guess.
    Cycling can't get more dangerous than it presently is along that corridor anyway. Imagine how dangerous it would be to cycle over Carrs Hill with the narrow road and the traffic volume.


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    #725
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The M28 Steering Group are holding a meeting next Thursday night where they will unveil a legal challenge to the M28 scheme which they say legally "doesn't have a leg to stand on except for political urgency" and that the M28 won't stand up in court. (Except for the fact that the M28 is in compliance with all development and planning policy in the Cork area). They refuse to say what this challenge is except that it will be revealed on Thursday next. The only indication of wrongdoing is an apparent conspiracy by An Bord Pleanala to make the decision on this scheme during the summer months to inconvenience people. (Of course, if they hadn't flooded ABP with NIMBY spam ABP would have had their decision made a long time ago).

    This is turning into complete and utter "I don't want a motorway in my lovely leafy suburb" and "I don't want the destruction of the valley yet the valley had to be destroyed to facilitate the sprawl in which I live". This needs to be sorted quickly so that these self centered individuals don't hold up much needed development in the Cork area.


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    #726
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    The posts in that group by the moderator are nothing short of farcical.

    People are questioning their motives on the group and in reality, they have no answers.

    One woman said that everyone in Passsge West is against the motorway. Complete nonsense.

    Another said the same for Carrigaline. The vast vast majority of people in Carrigaline support this road.

    Worst of all a person said s the pharma companies are against the new road. Utter nonsense.


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    #727
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Here's what the posts say by representatives of the M28 Steering Group

    1. The M28 was designed for trucks and lorries
    2. The N28 is being hijacked by the Government
    3. 4000 trucks a day will block the M28
    4. The N28 is being stolen from residents to support the Port of Cork
    5. This is a grand attempt to dupe people in Cork into stealing their road and the people of Cork are waking up to this
    6. The road has been designed poorly and is "contra regulation"
    7. Leo Varadkar found an alternative route for Metrolink and he hasn't done so here
    8. The M28 is highly dangerous and has been confirmed by a number of professionals

    Regarding the above:

    1. The M28 is designed to the same standards as the M6, M7, M8, M9, M11, M18, M21, N25 and N40
    2. I don't know what to say to this - it clearly isn't.
    3. The motorway will have sufficient capacity to deal with these - UNLIKE the current road
    4. It isn't - it was originally designed to upgrade the N28 and serve Ringaskiddy, Shanbally, Carrigaline, Cork Harbour, Passage, Crosshaven and Rochestown/Douglas
    5. I have seen no evidence of this - most people are happy the area is finally getting investment
    6. It hasn't - it's designed to all required standards
    7. He didn't - they simply moved the location for tunnel boring machine launches - not comparable here
    8. No further details - hard to make sense of

    There were other comments up earlier but these appear to have been deleted and users blocked from discussing the points. Anyone who raises a valid point or asks a valid question is told to come to the meeting. The comments about ABP leading a conspiracy to make the decision during the summer as it is inconvenient for people has also been removed.


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    #728
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    The posts in that group by the moderator are nothing short of farcical.

    People are questioning their motives on the group and in reality, they have no answers.

    One woman said that everyone in Passsge West is against the motorway. Complete nonsense.

    Another said the same for Carrigaline. The vast vast majority of people in Carrigaline support this road.

    Worst of all a person said s the pharma companies are against the new road. Utter nonsense.
    Well, it's as simple as this. If the Examiner are allowed to publish an article saying they are against the project (they were looking for a slight rerouting at Ringaskiddy back to the 2008 routing which would take the motorway further away from the village), which they aren't, they are universally in favour of it, it's no surprise that this fake news is spreading around

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/united-opposition-to-180m-m28-route-462507.html


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    #729
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Steering Group now claiming that the new road will lead to thousands of articulated lorries going down Maryborough Hill each day.

    It’s like fairytale stuff from them. Sling enough **** at a wall and eventually some will stick. In fairness, there are plenty of people questioning their rubbish on there.


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    #730
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Steering Group now claiming that the new road will lead to thousands of articulated lorries going down Maryborough Hill each day.

    It’s like fairytale stuff from them. Sling enough **** at a wall and eventually some will stick. In fairness, there are plenty of people questioning their rubbish on there.
    This is funny because that's an argument in favour of the road - no motorway will mean substantial rat running traffic through Douglas and Rochestown. You can't call the M28 a scar on the land either because it was built in 1995 (the part we're concerned with) and has blended in with the land now.

    A quick look at the state the countries on either side of us are in will tell you exactly the type of problems that happen when nonsense gets told repeatedly until people start believing it.


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    #731
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Thousands of articulated lorries going down Maryborough Hill? They mean the N28 and not the road down past the golf club and the hotel, right?

    The group campaigning against the incinerator has been granted leave for a judicial appeal. Not sure how good a sign that is for the M28.


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    #732
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Thousands of articulated lorries going down Maryborough Hill? They mean the N28 and not the road down past the golf club and the hotel, right?

    The group campaigning against the incinerator has been granted leave for a judicial appeal. Not sure how good a sign that is for the M28.

    No they do not. They believe that Bloomfield will be so clogged that truckers will instead go down Maryborough Hill.

    First of all they would go down the old Carrigaline Road. Secondly, it’s a load of ****ing bull****.


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    #733
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Thousands of articulated lorries going down Maryborough Hill? They mean the N28 and not the road down past the golf club and the hotel, right?

    The group campaigning against the incinerator has been granted leave for a judicial appeal. Not sure how good a sign that is for the M28.
    1. Incinerator was approved by ABP against the recommendation of their own inspector, that's a big reason for challenge

    2. CHASE successfully raised funding for this judicial review

    3. The incinerator is almost universally disliked and has a much stronger anti following than a pro, contrasted with the M28.

    The M28 objectors are simply a quasi-elitist minority driven by generic NIMBYism in Rochestown who are at the stage now where they are contradicting their own arguments. It's more of a crusade against the establishment vs the people that has a motorway caught up in it. The only argument they seem to be pushing is "noise pollution", which is going to be there M28 or no N28. If these people have such a problem with this road corridor they should have blocked it when it was built in the 90s. Nowadays it's trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.

    It's a whole different ballgame to the incinerator. Take a look at the Metrolink thread to see a similar group in Ranelagh campaigning on similar generic NIMBYist reasons (trams could derail into our gardens etc). "I've had my fun and that's all that matters"

    Seeing the "Steering Group" suggesting that a senior Cabinet member should interfere in this and reroute it because they don't want a blue line running through Rochestown instead of a green line..


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    #734
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    No they do not.  They believe that Bloomfield will be so clogged that truckers will instead go down Maryborough Hill.  
    Oh for heaven's sake.


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    #735
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    marno21 wrote: »
    Seeing the "Steering Group" suggesting that a senior Cabinet member should interfere in this and reroute it because they don't want a blue line running through Rochestown instead of a green line..
    When does the window for a judicial appeal close? Here's hoping some kind judge will refuse their appeal and put them out of their misery...


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    #736
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Steering Group have now gone and deleted the vast majority of dissenting posts on the group. Gone from 87 comments down to only 22. Pathetic.


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    #737
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    All dissenting posts now being removed.


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    #738
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    All dissenting posts now being removed.
    Reeks of desperation


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    #739
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Anyone at this affair tonight?

    Tweets from Jerry Buttimer and others seem to indicate it was about a judicial review. Best of luck to the anti-development wing of Rochestown who intend on wasting all that money

    Meanwhile, Simon Coveney (whilst not attending international affairs) was tweeting today about Cork Chamber and the M28 being positive for Cork. Good to see him not engaging in opportunistic political pandering.


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    #740
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Did they actually get the money? A comment on Buttimer's facebook says Once again ....many thanks Jerry for your unwavering support. We drive on to the High Court in our unending campaign to protect our community.


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    #741
    Kevwoody
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Kevwoody


    snotboogie wrote:
    Did they actually get the money? A comment on Buttimer's facebook says Once again ....many thanks Jerry for your unwavering support. We drive on to the High Court in our unending campaign to protect our community.

    So they are saying as long as we move it on to someone else's community we're happy.
    Planning laws that allow this kind of bull**** are a disgrace.


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    #742
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    M28 Steering Group now have bank details on their FB page fundraising for this legal challenge including pictures of donation buckets at last nights meeting.

    Interesting from the photos on the page, you get an insight into the demographic of people leading this crusade and it's even more sickening

    Some free advertising riddled with inaccuracies from the local press today also: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/group-opposing-new-cork-motorway-says-there-are-strong-grounds-for-judicial-review-858263.html


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    #743
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    When does the window close for a judicial review?


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    #744
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    When does the window close for a judicial review?
    8 weeks I believe.

    Government want to reduce this to 4 but obviously no use here.


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    #745
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/members-of-m28-steering-group-have-only-a-few-days-to-raise-funds-for-judicial-review/

    300 people at the meeting last night. 3% of the people supposedly represented by the Steering Group. 97% people either don't agree or don't care.

    They plan to raise over 100k for the judicial review. That's €333 per person from all the people there last night, 60% of the cost of a return flight from Cork to Boston. I know which one I'd be choosing.


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    #746
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭cantalach


    marno21 wrote: »
    Some free advertising riddled with inaccuracies from the local press today also: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/group-opposing-new-cork-motorway-says-there-are-strong-grounds-for-judicial-review-858263.html

    One of the paragraphs reads:
    The steering group represents more than 10,000 residents who will be affected by the motorway and has 45 members, including residents associations and county councillors.

    This is just terrible journalism and a sub-editor asleep at the wheel. The group "claims to represent" and no more than that. They sure as Hell don't represent me!


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    #747
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    cantalach wrote: »
    One of the paragraphs reads:
    The steering group represents more than 10,000 residents who will be affected by the motorway and has 45 members, including residents associations and county councillors.

    This is just terrible journalism and a sub-editor asleep at the wheel. The group "claims to represent" and no more than that. They sure as Hell don't represent me!
    That's how you report stuff if you're in agreement with the aims of the group though; it's the type of stuff you see on Fox News.

    Good to see another pro-development person here. If they manage to win their case on some technicality I can see and hope TII come back in with an IROPI type appeal. TII have already ruled out alternatives in the planning process, An Bord Pleanala have concurred with this and the geography of Cork pretty much puts the argument to bed.

    Imagine if Rochestown Tidy Towns got a 100k investment, what it could do for the area for everyone's benefit.


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    #748
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭cantalach


    marno21 wrote: »
    Good to see another pro-development person here.

    I'm pro-common sense. As I drove in from Carrigaline the other day along the existing N28, it really struck me what an ugly road it is: a large petrol station, a climbing lane, a cell tower, an underpass, a flyover, another underpass, and lots of traffic. Not exactly Killarney National Park and ideal, I'd have thought, as a route corridor for a motorway. In contrast, the route corridor from Fivemilebridge to Carrigaline through which the Nimbys would prefer the motorway to go is comparatively unspoiled.


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    #749
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Why on earth do they keep claiming the road will split communities in two? For goodness' sake. The road does not run through any towns or villages, and will actually join the Carrigaline region more closely to Cork City. And their claims that it's "not about money", when it so very clearly is?

    I do try not to take notice, and I'm sure the M28 will be built, but the Steering Group's incessant distortion and dishonesty could give Trump a run for his money. It really ticks me off.


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    #750
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Why on earth do they keep claiming the road will split communities in two? For goodness' sake. The road does not run through any towns or villages, and will actually join the Carrigaline region more closely to Cork City. And their claims that it's "not about money", when it so very clearly is?

    It's a mixture of textbook NIMBYism combined with a crusade and refusal to admit defeat at this stage/
    I do try not to take notice, and I'm sure the M28 will be built, but the Steering Group's incessant distortion and dishonesty could give Trump a run for his money. It really ticks me off.

    Similar tactics alright when you get to the bottom of it. Pure selfishness when you realise the domino effect caused by the holding up the M28.


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    #751
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    cantalach wrote: »
    One of the paragraphs reads:
    The steering group represents more than 10,000 residents who will be affected by the motorway and has 45 members, including residents associations and county councillors.

    This is just terrible journalism and a sub-editor asleep at the wheel. The group "claims to represent" and no more than that. They sure as Hell don't represent me!

    Same thing on the BreakingNews report - https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/group-opposing-new-cork-motorway-says-there-are-strong-grounds-for-judicial-review-858263.html


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