Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

Kermit.de.frog

Unrelated but can the N25 in Cork be made a motorway? Anyone know? Seems ok on a map.

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Unrelated but can the N25 in Cork be made a motorway? Anyone know? Seems ok on a map.

Middleton-Carrigtwohill - no, for the moment no alternative route

Carrigtwohill-little island - yes

Little Islans-Dunkettle - can be rectified to provide alternative route

blindsider

The protest group has posters up in Douglas village. Aren't these illegal?

Wish the council would prosecute the group and remove the posters.

TheChizler

marno21 wrote: »

300 people at the meeting last night. 3% of the people supposedly represented by the Steering Group. 97% people either don't agree or don't care.

I think they're being as ridiculous the same as you do but you're just misrepresenting people as badly as them to make a statement like that. Unless there's some poll taken we can't say anything meaningful about people's positions based on attendance at an event.

danny004

almost everything thats been said in this thread is misrepresented and completely polarised and skewed for effect.

• The media are wrong for in-factually reporting. Its more like whats being said may or may not be factually correct but the media are reporting on the event in Rochestown park and what was said there ,this is clear from articles.
• People who object are wrong.This constant use of the term NIMBY for people defending their invetsments. I struggle to think where does that end and legitimate concerns for self preservation begin, My view if it effects you it effects you and you have the right to explore each and every corner of the law to defend your investment and certainly if it effects your back yard should you so wish. Also this ridiculous notion that seems to be coming through of people shouldn't suffer from NIMBY syndrome and should step aside for the good of the wider community. Get real thats not how life works. People shouldn't be afraid to defend their back yard and let due process sort it out
• Bord Planeala was wrong ,the government are Wrong ,Judical review from NIMBYs are wrong. Again due process. Without due process or a free press we are left with a dictatorship which probably suits some of the robotic ,empathetic vacuum hardline view constantly thrown out in here.
• Pharma industry is completely behind this road. Yes to a point except for Ringaskiddy village where they were completely opposed to the route selection and that was also ignored. Unlike the steering group there was a perfectly suitable alternative that wouldn't effect anyone. Imagine what would be designed if there was no governance like oral hearings or Judaical reviews
• No Villages will be split - Try saying that in Ringaskiddy village and see how you get on.
• Why didn't people object to the existing n28 in the 90s if they have a problem with it now - Christ a ridiculous argument

I do agree the steering group looking for the road to be moved up towards the airport is the most nonsensical argument of all but they are entitled to due process and comments like they only have x% of attendance when they claim to have y % of support is just like schoolgirls in a playground squabbling

If you want a road because you travel the appalling N28 everyday then you have a vested interest and you are more than entitled to your view and quite fortunate your view fits with the vast majority of people but other minority views are not to be dismissed either particularity if you live along the route where there will be increased noise and pollution (the increase amount debatable)
Probably get slated for posting but at least I believe its balanced

mikeym

When the next general and council election come around I know who not to vote for.

EnzoScifo

blindsider wrote: »

The protest group has posters up in Douglas village. Aren't these illegal?

Wish the council would prosecute the group and remove the posters.

They need to obtain permission. you can complain to the waste dept in the council and the group will be fined for littering.

Golfer50

danny004 wrote: »

Probably get slated for posting but at least I believe its balanced

Not by me! Fair play for trying to bring a bit of balance.

EnzoScifo

danny004 wrote: »

almost everything thats been said in this thread is misrepresented and completely polarised and skewed for effect.

• The media are wrong for in-factually reporting. Its more like whats being said may or may not be factually correct but the media are reporting on the event in Rochestown park and what was said there ,this is clear from articles.
  
  Media's reporting has been skewed towards the protesters because controversy sells papers. That's it.
  
  
• People who object are wrong.This constant use of the term NIMBY for people defending their invetsments. I struggle to think where does that end and legitimate concerns for self preservation begin, My view if it effects you it effects you and you have the right to explore each and every corner of the law to defend your investment and certainly if it effects your back yard should you so wish. Also this ridiculous notion that seems to be coming through of people shouldn't suffer from NIMBY syndrome and should step aside for the good of the wider community. Get real thats not how life works. People shouldn't be afraid to defend their back yard and let due process sort it out
  
  That's the problem with this country. Hosing should not be seen as an "investment"
  
  
• Pharma industry is completely behind this road. Yes to a point except for Ringaskiddy village where they were completely opposed to the route selection and that was also ignored. Unlike the steering group there was a perfectly suitable alternative that wouldn't effect anyone. Imagine what would be designed if there was no governance like oral hearings or Judaical reviews
• No Villages will be split - Try saying that in Ringaskiddy village and see how you get on.
  
  The steering group behind this judicial review couldn't care less about Ringaskiddy. Judging by the comments from the Facebook moderators towards residents in Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy, they are actively hostile towards them.
  
  
• Why didn't people object to the existing n28 in the 90s if they have a problem with it now - Christ a ridiculous argument
  
  Not sure why it is ridiculous. The n28 on Carrs Hill currently funnels traffic along the same route at the same speed limit, but with less noise abatement and a more dangerous layout than the M28 will. The major transformative work to the area was done in the early 90's
  
  

I do agree the steering group looking for the road to be moved up towards the airport is the most nonsensical argument of all but they are entitled to due process and comments like they only have x% of attendance when they claim to have y % of support is just like schoolgirls in a playground squabbling

Problem here is the media reporting that the steering group actually represent 10,000 residents as opposed to "claiming" representation. It's poor, poor journalism at best and openly biased at worst

If you want a road because you travel the appalling N28 everyday then you have a vested interest and you are more than entitled to your view and quite fortunate your view fits with the vast majority of people but other minority views are not to be dismissed either particularity if you live along the route where there will be increased noise and pollution (the increase amount debatable)

the problem here is that this will affect the entire city region not just those who travel the N28 daily (and I would certainly have more sympathy for those people than anyone else).

Without the m28 the Port of Cork's planned move of all shipping downstream to Ringaskiddy will be in peril. Knock on effects of that will be the delay of the North Docks redevelopment in Tivoli, some of the planned rail transport improvements in that area and the government's plans to make Cork a city if scale. The steering group can claim to represent 10,000, but it is the other 210,000 in Cork that will pay the price. All because a few local are worried about house prices.

Probably get slated for posting but at least I believe its balanced

.

AugustusMinimus

The Steering Group has about 1,000 members on its Facebook page. I would think that 1,500 would be an accurate estimate on the amount of people who have any sort of support of the group. Given 300 at the meeting, the majority of its support is quite fleeting.

Papers saying 10,000 is laughable.


The Group doesn’t believe in debate or reasoned arguement either. Their posters are pure scaremongering and they actively delete posts on their Facebook page which don’t tow the line.

On their latest post, they had to delete somewhere in the region of 60 posts out of a total of 94. They luckily cannot delete reviews of the group, a significant amount of which are quite negative.

Aontachtoir

Someone should make a pro-M28 Facebook group instead. Something like "Build the M28" or "Locals for the M28", a place where the facts and overwhelming case for building the road can be laid out. If nothing else it would help to diminish that ridiculous 10000 figure, of which I am supposedly one. If only Facebook would get its act together and start clamping down on fake news.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

Aontachtoir

Oh thanks. I guess I shouldn't assume such a page doesn't exist just because I haven't heard of it.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

Golfer50

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Steering Group has about 1,000 members on its Facebook page. I would think that 1,500 would be an accurate estimate on the amount of people who have any sort of support of the group..

Interesting but it’s not really a Facebook competition . . . given the 25 members of the pro M28 Facebookgroup , oh and the dozen or so regular contributors here

mikeym

Dont bother posting on the facebook anti m28 page you will get bullied or your comment will be deleted if you dont agree with the admins.

Good old Jerry Butimer doesnt even live in the Cork South Central Electoral area but he has the neck to say that the much needed M28 should not be built. Some cheek.

(Edit He wants it rerouted to Ballinhassig)

danny004

EnzoScifo wrote: »

Originally Posted by danny004 View Post
almost everything thats been said in this thread is misrepresented and completely polarised and skewed for effect.
The media are wrong for in-factually reporting. Its more like whats being said may or may not be factually correct but the media are reporting on the event in Rochestown park and what was said there ,this is clear from articles.

Media's reporting has been skewed towards the protesters because controversy sells papers. That's it.

People who object are wrong.This constant use of the term NIMBY for people defending their invetsments. I struggle to think where does that end and legitimate concerns for self preservation begin, My view if it effects you it effects you and you have the right to explore each and every corner of the law to defend your investment and certainly if it effects your back yard should you so wish. Also this ridiculous notion that seems to be coming through of people shouldn't suffer from NIMBY syndrome and should step aside for the good of the wider community. Get real thats not how life works. People shouldn't be afraid to defend their back yard and let due process sort it out

That's the problem with this country. Hosing should not be seen as an "investment"

Pharma industry is completely behind this road. Yes to a point except for Ringaskiddy village where they were completely opposed to the route selection and that was also ignored. Unlike the steering group there was a perfectly suitable alternative that wouldn't effect anyone. Imagine what would be designed if there was no governance like oral hearings or Judaical reviews
No Villages will be split - Try saying that in Ringaskiddy village and see how you get on.

The steering group behind this judicial review couldn't care less about Ringaskiddy. Judging by the comments from the Facebook moderators towards residents in Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy, they are actively hostile towards them.

Why didn't people object to the existing n28 in the 90s if they have a problem with it now - Christ a ridiculous argument

Not sure why it is ridiculous. The n28 on Carrs Hill currently funnels traffic along the same route at the same speed limit, but with less noise abatement and a more dangerous layout than the M28 will. The major transformative work to the area was done in the early 90's



I do agree the steering group looking for the road to be moved up towards the airport is the most nonsensical argument of all but they are entitled to due process and comments like they only have x% of attendance when they claim to have y % of support is just like schoolgirls in a playground squabbling

Problem here is the media reporting that the steering group actually represent 10,000 residents as opposed to "claiming" representation. It's poor, poor journalism at best and openly biased at worst

If you want a road because you travel the appalling N28 everyday then you have a vested interest and you are more than entitled to your view and quite fortunate your view fits with the vast majority of people but other minority views are not to be dismissed either particularity if you live along the route where there will be increased noise and pollution (the increase amount debatable)

the problem here is that this will affect the entire city region not just those who travel the N28 daily (and I would certainly have more sympathy for those people than anyone else).

Without the m28 the Port of Cork's planned move of all shipping downstream to Ringaskiddy will be in peril. Knock on effects of that will be the delay of the North Docks redevelopment in Tivoli, some of the planned rail transport improvements in that area and the government's plans to make Cork a city if scale. The steering group can claim to represent 10,000, but it is the other 210,000 in Cork that will pay the price. All because a few local are worried about house prices.

Probably get slated for posting but at least I believe its balanced

Media's reporting has been skewed towards the protesters because controversy sells papers. That's it.
Maybe but doesnt seem that way to me ,to me it looks like they reported on that event. Im sure if anyone here wanted to set up a pro M28 group and have an official public spokesperson then the examiner would report on that as well.

That's the problem with this country. Hosing should not be seen as an "investment"
Tell that to a mortgage provider in any case change the word investment to home and its the same argument

The steering group behind this judicial review couldn't care less about Ringaskiddy. Judging by the comments from the Facebook moderators towards residents in Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy, they are actively hostile towards them.
Never mentioned the steering group these were comments from this thread

Not sure why it is ridiculous. The n28 on Carrs Hill currently funnels traffic along the same route at the same speed limit, but with less noise abatement and a more dangerous layout than the M28 will. The major transformative work to the area was done in the early 90's
Because it is. Different planning process at the time ,they may have objected ,people may have moved in afterwords ,some were probably not even born and to say if you didn't object then to a road you shouldn't have any problem with a motorway 30 years later is just not realistic in any rational sense of the argument

Problem here is the media reporting that the steering group actually represent 10,000 residents as opposed to "claiming" representation. It's poor, poor journalism at best and openly biased at worst
On reflection you are correct

the problem here is that this will affect the entire city region not just those who travel the N28 daily (and I would certainly have more sympathy for those people than anyone else).

Without the m28 the Port of Cork's planned move of all shipping downstream to Ringaskiddy will be in peril. Knock on effects of that will be the delay of the North Docks redevelopment in Tivoli, some of the planned rail transport improvements in that area and the government's plans to make Cork a city if scale. The steering group can claim to represent 10,000, but it is the other 210,000 in Cork that will pay the price. All because a few local are worried about house prices.
And hence due process to sort it out and to give everyone a say ,that process also includes judicial reviews post board hearings where at the end noone can say they have not been heard. If at the end of process the minority win on appeal then clearly the submission or the design was not right and its back to the drawing board. If there was no process right now cork harbour would be burning tonnes and tonnes of waste flr all to enjoy

marno21

TheChizler wrote: »

I think they're being as ridiculous the same as you do but you're just misrepresenting people as badly as them to make a statement like that. Unless there's some poll taken we can't say anything meaningful about people's positions based on attendance at an event.

If there were 10,000 people being represented by a group that aims to stop the "destruction of their community" then a 3% turn out is pretty pathetic

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

Interesting but it’s not really a Facebook competition . . . given the 25 members of the pro M28 Facebookgroup , oh and the dozen or so regular contributors here

Like most projects, there is a "silent majority" who just get on with their lives instead of what's going on here. I am at a loss as to why anyone south of Carrs Hill (bar the routing issues in Ringaskiddy) or anyone in Cork outside of the Rochestown area would have an issue.

danny004

marno21 wrote: »

Like most projects, there is a "silent majority" who just get on with their lives instead of what's going on here. I am at a loss as to why anyone south of Carrs Hill (bar the routing issues in Ringaskiddy) or anyone in Cork outside of the Rochestown area would have an issue.

Yep probably correct on silent majority but if I am correct in assuming Rochestown Road encompasses Mount Oval and hence the M28 steering group + Ringaskiddy Residents which is a total pity and could easily have been accommodated then Id imagine no one else has a problem apart from spurious objections

TheChizler

marno21 wrote: »

If there were 10,000 people being represented by a group that aims to stop the "destruction of their community" then a 3% turn out is pretty pathetic

Maybe space was limited at the venue? Either way I don't think you can gauge indifference by measuring active supporters. Look at the last couple of referendums; landslide victories but I'd be surprised if much more than a fraction of a percent had actively campaigned. Better to stick to facts, just like we'd prefer the anti side to do.

EnzoScifo

TheChizler wrote: »

Maybe space was limited at the venue? Either way I don't think you can gauge indifference by measuring active supporters. Look at the last couple of referendums; landslide victories but I'd be surprised if much more than a fraction of a percent had actively campaigned. Better to stick to facts, just like we'd prefer the anti side to do.

Judging from the video they posted they booked the main dining hall in rochestown park and it wasn't even a third full.

theboringfox

This will go ahead and needs to go ahead. Pure nimbyism by people protesting. I respect their right to protest though.

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

If there were 10,000 people being represented by a group that aims to stop the "destruction of their community" then a 3% turn out is pretty pathetic

. . .as opposed to the dozen or so regulars on this forum?

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

. . .as opposed to the dozen or so regulars on this forum?

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean but..

The pro-M28 agenda is being handled fairly well by TII, Cork County Council, a number of prominent local politicians, Cork Chamber, the Port of Cork amongst others. There isn't need for pro-M28 supporters to convene to discuss strategies because said strategies are already being pushed by the relevant authorities.

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean but..

The pro-M28 agenda is being handled fairly well by TII, Cork County Council, a number of prominent local politicians, Cork Chamber, the Port of Cork amongst others. There isn't need for pro-M28 supporters to convene to discuss strategies because said strategies are already being pushed by the relevant authorities.

Absolutely, but judging the level of opposition to the present route by the number who attended the public meeting is way off.

EnzoScifo

Golfer50 wrote: »

Absolutely, but judging the level of opposition to the present route by the number who attended the public meeting is way off.

I don't think so. This last meeting for fundraising for a judicial review. Literally putting your money where your mouth is if you're serious about stopping the M28. On that basis the turnout at the meeting is probably the best indication.

kub

I hope this M28 NIMBY business can be dismissed as soon as possible as this road needs to be delivered fast:


https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-french-ireland-ports-cut-out-of-eu-trade-route-after-brexit/


The Commission on Wednesday adopted a proposal to revise the routing of one of its strategic transport corridors to connect Dublin and Cork with the Belgian ports of Zeebrugge and Antwerp and the Port of Rotterdam in the Netherlands, to channel trade directly from Ireland to mainland Europe after Brexit.


This is a massive opportunity for Cork Harbour.

Aontachtoir

Somewhat interesting that Rosslare was not mentioned in the article, seeing as it forms part of the current E-route 30. But if we have to cut GB out of the loop entirely, I guess it makes sense to land goods directly at Cork and Dublin instead of at Rosslare and then trucking them up to Dublin.

blindsider

...and it makes the Dunkettle-North Ring-M20 all the more urgent too. Freight needs to be able to get out of Cork quickly and easily - and we're a long way from that at the moment!