Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

AugustusMinimus

It’s like the apocalypse is coming on the Steering Group Facebook page. The M28 will “Destroy Douglas, Maryborough Hill and Rochestown”.

It will achieve something only nuclear weapons could achieve.

They’re constantly looking for cash too. €200k I believe. Will they also need money for solicitors etc? What will they do with the cash if they don’t get enough for an appeal?

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s like the apocalypse is coming on the Steering Group Facebook page. The M28 will “Destroy Douglas, Maryborough Hill and Rochestown”.

It will achieve something only nuclear weapons could achieve.

They’re constantly looking for cash too. €200k I believe. Will they also need money for solicitors etc? What will they do with the cash if they don’t get enough for an appeal?

The 200k is the legal cost total

Maybe they might cop on and put it to good use ?

kub

marno21 wrote:

Maybe they might cop on and put it to good use ?

marno21 wrote:

The 200k is the legal cost total

Yes like contributing to trees or something for the side of the M28, sur they love the environment.

Cork Trucker

I was at their meeting in the Rochestown Park Hotel recently, albeit very briefly, I'd be stunned if they can get this overturned. The incinerator might well be but this won't. €200k being some serious cash, I wonder how far they are along the line to raising the full amount.

kub

No doubt they counted you as one of their supporters and probably the staff there as well.
I looked at their FB page last night and they posted up some article that your life is in peril if you live in close proximity to a major road.
Interesting how they are all still alive so because as it is the N28 is a major road.

So I reckon they are still throwing out waffle, bull and lies to the sheepeople to try and raise funds.
When is the dead line I wonder?

Kevwoody

kub wrote:

So I reckon they are still throwing out waffle, bull and lies to the sheepeople to try and raise funds. When is the dead line I wonder?

Their Facebook page is a joke, they delete any comments straight away that dont agree with them. They've gained a real air of self importance too. They refer to themselves as "executive members of the group", and "head of finance division". You'd swear it was an international company they were running!
Someone above raised a very valid point, what happens to the money raised if they dont hit their target? I doubt very much they would allow it to be spent on new trees for the motorway.
Their flyer also stresses the point they've proposed "a better alternative route", without actually saying where this magical route should be. They are really preying on the average joe who will believe all their guff.

MrDerp

kub wrote: »

No doubt they counted you as one of their supporters and probably the staff there as well.
I looked at their FB page last night and they posted up some article that your life is in peril if you live in close proximity to a major road.
Interesting how they are all still alive so because as it is the N28 is a major road.

So I reckon they are still throwing out waffle, bull and lies to the sheepeople to try and raise funds.
When is the dead line I wonder?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/planning_and_development_in_ireland/judicial_review_in_planning_and_environmental_matters.html

According to the above link, they have 8 weeks from the date of the decision to request leave for a judicial review. However, the court can extend if lateness was outside their control, the definition of which is probably ill-defined.

So that's 8 weeks from 4th of July, Wednesday 29th of August.

I looked at their page last night, and find it interesting that they're not publishing how far they are along in their fundraising goal. They might already have the money, or might not.

SURELY, the 10,000 supposedly represented residents are willing to spend 20 euro each on protecting their property values? Or 2000 of them spending 100 euro?

Or perhaps the worst affected 200, who will bear the brunt of the of the cancer, heart disease, exploding trucks and crumbling foundations would be willing to invest 1000 in protecting themselves from these incalculable risks?

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

No doubt they counted you as one of their supporters and probably the staff there as well.
I looked at their FB page last night and they posted up some article that your life is in peril if you live in close proximity to a major road.
Interesting how they are all still alive so because as it is the N28 is a major road.

So I reckon they are still throwing out waffle, bull and lies to the sheepeople to try and raise funds.
When is the dead line I wonder?

I'd say anybody who was within the perimeter of the hotel was included as being against it that night regardless of affiliation, if any. The facebook page is a farce, all one sided, constructive debate is refused, thank god they can't remove the reviews.

I also think I know who is behind the page and it isn't directly Harrington to my amazement, rather he is a second in command of it, the guy who I understand is running it has me blocked on Facebook.

How many deaths have there been alone that route from fumes etc since the N28 was built?

MrDerp wrote: »

According to the above link, they have 8 weeks from the date of the decision to request leave for a judicial review. However, the court can extend if lateness was outside their control, the definition of which is probably ill-defined.

So that's 8 weeks from 4th of July, Wednesday 29th of August.

I looked at their page last night, and find it interesting that they're not publishing how far they are along in their fundraising goal. They might already have the money, or might not.

SURELY, the 10,000 supposedly represented residents are willing to spend 20 euro each on protecting their property values? Or 2000 of them spending 100 euro?

Or perhaps the worst affected 200, who will bear the brunt of the of the cancer, heart disease, exploding trucks and crumbling foundations would be willing to invest 1000 in protecting themselves from these incalculable risks?

I would be hugely surprised if they have that amount of cash to hand by now, if there was genuinely 10,000 they would have had it long ago, again figures just made up I think.

The exploding trucks issue is a big one with me, as I stated before, I know of 1 major incident on the Shannon park roundabout in 2006 when a truck shed its load of sulphuric acid, this was driver error as the load wasn't strapped down, I had dealings with that particular driver and well, lets just say I wasn't surprised.

I look forward to them rolling out more rubbish.

Look at the Blackpool bypass, built in the late 90's the road is right on top of houses with trucks going from the port including myself to the west of Ireland, I have yet to hear of mortality rates in that area that tie in with the steering groups analysis if their area and for the record Harrington himself is originally from the Northside, yet when the North Ring Road that we have today was being built in the 80's he was nowhere to be seen.

Going back to your point, if the residents had the numbers claimed, the donations would be miniscule and they would have the money, it's all kite flying at the end of the day.

kub

The bottom line is they are bluffing about the 10,000.

You might be able to confirm, was it mentioned at that meeting that there would be " 4,000 trucks a day, using that road "?

Have we even that many trucks in the country?

AugustusMinimus

There was a topic on their page a few weeks ago which got up to 88 comments.

They then deleted about 60 of them.

I live in the area and there most certainly is not 10,000 supporters. No way. It’s all fantasy stuff from them.

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

The bottom line is they are bluffing about the 10,000.

You might be able to confirm, was it mentioned at that meeting that there would be " 4,000 trucks a day, using that road "?

Have we even that many trucks in the country?

Truthfully I didn't hang around long enough to find that out. I just seen people putting money into the donation buckets in their droves and it appeared out of fear more than anything else.

As for the 4000 trucks, yes we would have substantially in excess of that across the 32 county island.

What they are probably referring to is 4000 journeys by trucks rather than 4000 individual trucks.

For example, when I worked in Little Island I could travel that road up to 6 times a day in one shift consisting 10 hours, so when you stick in the return leg that's 12 journeys by me alone.


I suspect anything from a Citroen Berlingo weighing less than 3.5T on commercial business with a box of scots clan in the back is a 'truck' with dangerous cargo in their eyes.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There was a topic on their page a few weeks ago which got up to 88 comments.

They then deleted about 60 of them.

I live in the area and there most certainly is not 10,000 supporters. No way. It’s all fantasy stuff from them.

Glad to see a local resident come out and speak the truth as to what is going on up around there.

My GP lives in the general Rochestown area and even he has said it's badly needed, whether he would go on record with his opinion I doubt it as he would be slaughtered by the opposition.


Can anyone from the following area's tell me was there this level of NIMBYism when the roads were being built? I doubt it, you'll always get NIMBY's but this is just utter snobbery.


M7
M8
M9
M50
M17
M18


The people along the proposed M20 route in certain area's such as Charleville have said that the road would split their farm in 2 etc, but they ain't coming out like this crowd are saying #notonourwatch crap.

If the judicial review sides with An Bord Pleanala, which I reckon it will, and the last efforts of the NIMBY's are shot down, I will buy a round for the boardsies in the Rochestown Park Hotel if ye want

kub

Cork Trucker wrote:

If the judicial review sides with An Bord Pleanala, which I reckon it will, and the last efforts of the NIMBY's are shot down, I will buy a round for the boardsies in the Rochestown Park Hotel if ye want

I heard of some feedback from that meeting.
ABP were labelled as rotten for some reason or other. One of which was because they had to agree to the M28 was because of the incinerator, which they gave the go ahead to already.

The timing was questionable as most residents in the area are on holidays this time of the year, God love them.

I like to think that the people in the area are well educated and have the common tact to see through them and I hope their fund raising is unsuccessful.

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

I heard of some feedback from that meeting.
ABP were labelled as rotten for some reason or other. One of which was because they had to agree to the M28 was because of the incinerator, which they gave the go ahead to already.

The timing was questionable as most residents in the area are on holidays this time of the year, God love them.

I like to think that the people in the area are well educated and have the common tact to see through them and I hope their fund raising is unsuccessful.

Sure we all know that had ABP ruled in their favour they would have been the greatest government organisation on the planet in their eyes.

The different between the M28 and the incinerator as we all know is the ABP inspectors have given the motorway the go-ahead while they went against the same advice of the inspector for the incinerator.

The date of the announcement was made known in advance though, even though the decision was delayed for a while longer than we all hoped.

About 95% of the locality appears to have the common sense not to entertain them and in the process didn't turn up or entertain the meeting in RPH.

I would be amazed if the group can raise the 200k and if they do I reckon they are in the height of debt for it between them.

What is a pity is, unlike GoFundMe campaigns where anyone can see the balance, the site they are using not only doesn't show the balance, it charges a 7% levy for the privilege of donating.

AugustusMinimus

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Sure we all know that had ABP ruled in their favour they would have been the greatest government organisation on the planet in their eyes.

The different between the M28 and the incinerator as we all know is the ABP inspectors have given the motorway the go-ahead while they went against the same advice of the inspector for the incinerator.

The date of the announcement was made known in advance though, even though the decision was delayed for a while longer than we all hoped.

About 95% of the locality appears to have the common sense not to entertain them and in the process didn't turn up or entertain the meeting in RPH.

I would be amazed if the group can raise the 200k and if they do I reckon they are in the height of debt for it between them.

What is a pity is, unlike GoFundMe campaigns where anyone can see the balance, the site they are using not only doesn't show the balance, it charges a 7% levy for the privilege of donating.

Interesting. If they don’t raise the 200k. Will they be in the hole for 7% of donations if people want their money back?

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Interesting. If they don’t raise the 200k. Will they be in the hole for 7% of donations if people want their money back?

the 7% is paid at the time of donation as far as i'm aware. If they seek their money back and succeed I can only assume it would be less the 7% so either way someone is gaining at the locals expense.

The site won't let me posts links as this is a new account but look up www . alt route m28 . com (no spaces) and see for yourselves the poor effort they are making :rolleyes:

marno21

The 7% is forfeited I'd imagine. I'm surprised they are using it as 7% of 200k is 14k which is an awful lot of money to squander.

Has there been any proposals in the area to ban cars from the Rochestown and Douglas areas? Along with a large area of commonage in which the residents can grow their own food? This would reduce noise and air pollution in the area and provide the food they require which currently travels on those evil dangerous trucks.

Perhaps it may be time to shut down Cork Airport and turn the N40 into a greenway and people's park for the sake of peace and the environment.

kub

marno21 wrote: »

The 7% is forfeited I'd imagine. I'm surprised they are using it as 7% of 200k is 14k which is an awful lot of money to squander.

Has there been any proposals in the area to ban cars from the Rochestown and Douglas areas? Along with a large area of commonage in which the residents can grow their own food? This would reduce noise and air pollution in the area and provide the food they require which currently travels on those evil dangerous trucks.

Perhaps it may be time to shut down Cork Airport and turn the N40 into a greenway and people's park for the sake of peace and the environment.

Brilliant :D:D


I cannot say that i am surprised at the decision to give 7% away, when the conduct of the NIMBY organising committee is considered.

Scoondal

Yes, M28 should be built.
Ireland needs to gear up for more direct trade routes to our E.U. neighbours.
Ringaskiddy, Rosslare and Waterford need to expand to facilitate direct shipping to Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain and Portugal.
Ireland should provide the neccessary infrastructure to align our trade routes with our E.U. partners.
It would be ridiculous to have Irish goods being sent to E.U. to have to first go via a non-E.U. country.

kub

Scoondal wrote: »

Yes, M28 should be built.
Ireland needs to gear up for more direct trade routes to our E.U. neighbours.
Ringaskiddy, Rosslare and Waterford need to expand to facilitate direct shipping to Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain and Portugal.
Ireland should provide the neccessary infrastructure to align our trade routes with our E.U. partners.
It would be ridiculous to have Irish goods being sent to E.U. to have to first go via a non-E.U. country.

Well Brittany Ferries are on the ball with the new service from Cork to Santander.
I hope it is a success for them.

Scoondal

kub wrote: »

Well Brittany Ferries are on the ball with the new service from Cork to Santander.
I hope it is a success for them.

And an extra service to Roscoff midweek. They are way ahead of the shambles.

marno21

Here's an article from last week's Cork Independent on the whole issue:

Cork Trucker

As a matter of interest, is there any precedence for a case like this where a motorway has been granted approval only for a judicial review to overturn that decision, or indeed any vital piece of infrastructure?

Scoondal

marno21 wrote: »

Here's an article from last week's Cork Independent on the whole issue:

Can some of us support the building of the M28 for the progress of our country ?

Cork Trucker

Scoondal wrote: »

Can some of us support the building of the M28 for the progress of our country ?

C'mon over to us on the Douglas for M28 Facebook group, there isn't many of us but we are in favour of it. The admin of the M28 Steering group page joined it as well and has blocked me :rolleyes:

Scoondal

Cork Trucker wrote: »

C'mon over to us on the Douglas for M28 Facebook group, there isn't many of us but we are in favour of it. The admin of the M28 Steering group page joined it as well and has blocked me :rolleyes:

Yes, I have heard that the anti M28 group are dictators by deleting different opinions. All opinions should be heard.

Aontachtoir

Cork Trucker wrote: »

As a matter of interest, is there any precedence for a case like this where a motorway has been granted approval only for a judicial review to overturn that decision, or indeed any vital piece of infrastructure?

Wondering the same thing. ABP were quite emphatic in their report that they had considered residents' objections and did not view them as of sufficient weight to overrule the public interest of having the motorway built.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057900824

Started a thread on that there in case people in the know don't read this thread/have had enough of it.

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057900824

Started a thread on that there in case people in the know don't read this thread/have had enough of it.

Thanks Marno. Well, two weeks left for them to lodge their appeal. Friday August 24th seems to be the deadline. Please God they won't raise enough.

Separately, I now appreciate the importance of the government's proposal to cut the time period in which a judicial review can be requested from eight weeks to four.

L1011

Going to be fun to see these people lose more money on their JR than they thought they'd lose on their precious property values. Seeing as the main agitator for them here admitted that was his sole concern.

MrDerp

Cork Trucker wrote: »

As a matter of interest, is there any precedence for a case like this where a motorway has been granted approval only for a judicial review to overturn that decision, or indeed any vital piece of infrastructure?

Judicial Reviews can overturn planning on the basis of procedure not being followed, or public interest not being adequately allowed for. They don't really hear objections on the basis of community interest.

So if a judge sees an Environmental report, or an inspectors consensus being outright ignored, for example, or some bit of the planning process being inadequately filed, they may give grounds for review, and that review *could* overturn a planning a decision.

However, all its likely to do is delay the process.

Even if they magic up a Mulcon valley snail or bog cotton, I doubt they could do more than push for more environmental protection during the works, as the road already exists.

I'm sure they have environmentalists pour over the EPA report already, and the basis for their seeking a judicial review seems to be "they didn't listen to us".

It seems to me that ABP went above and beyond on this one to ensure that there was more than adequate public consultation, and they addressed (and dismissed) the concerns in the decision.